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TOPIC: Part Two of Rethinking the Current Paradigm of Psychiatric Care

Part Two of Rethinking the Current Paradigm of Psychiatric Care 09 Jul 2019 16:44 #21

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Part Two of Rethinking the Current Paradigm of Psychiatric Care 12 Jul 2019 14:42 #22

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People should ask for a copy of their (regular) medical files and a copy of the results of any physical medical tests and a copy of any psychiatric/psychological information/reports that has been placed in their (psychiatric) medical file and their (regular) medical file.

It's amazing to me how many people don't ever do this and don't even think they have the right to do this.... to ask for a copy.

Even when they are told they have the right to ask for a copy they seem hesitant to do so... as if by asking...they will somehow offend the medical practitioner.

It is the persons right to have copies of their own medical test results and any medical reports or files because it is essentially your file.

Trying to change something in your file that you don't agree with is another thing altogether, that more pertains to psychiatric/psychological reports/diagnosis/assessments etc..

If a person doesn't agree with a psychiatric/psychological diagnosis/assessment and want it taken off their medical file then they have to make an official complaint to the College of Physicians and Surgeons or the equivalent in the country they are in and they will be subject to a separate assessment that is done by a different psychiatrist under the authority of the College of Physicians and Surgeons (or equivalent).

IF, and that is a big IF because the system usually protects it's own... the College of Physicians and Surgeons decides that the initial diagnosis was incorrect and sides with the complainant/patient then the offending and inaccurate paperwork will still not be removed from the person's medical file but an official letter from the College of Physicians and Surgeons will be placed on top of it in the persons medical file stating to disregard the previous diagnosis/information.

Any medical practitioner who see's that in your medical file thereafter will then know that you complained about a doctor to the College of Physicians and Surgeons. That can be about the equivalent of making an official complaint about a police officer to the police department and having a permanent record of that complaint in their police system.

Doctors protect their own just like the police protect their own, there is always the possibility of some kind of repercussions in the way the person who complained is treated thereafter..

People need to be much more aware of side effects of prescription medication and the dangers of mixing prescribed medications as well. People should not rely on their doctors or pharmacies to do this but should read the pamphlets that come with any prescription thoroughly and search on the internet for more information about the prescribed drugs they are given and what experiences other people have had from taking them.

Once, within days after beginning a certain general medical prescription I developed severe stomach cramps and collapsed soon after, something that had never happened to me before, after getting home from the hospital I read the fine print of the prescription and found what happened to me was one of the possible side effects. Needless to say, I immediately dumped the prescription and it never happened again.

Also, that particular medication was part of a large class action suit in the U.S. but they were still prescribing it in Canada. If I had known that, and googled the prescription beforehand, I never would have taken it.

As far as depression, I think some people do suffer from severe, debilitating depression that in all possibility has a genetic component while some other people suffer from what I call 'circumstantial depression'.....meaning they are depressed due to the (usually or often obvious upon inspection or inquiry..be it short lived or long lasting) depressing circumstances they are in that would cause any rational and normal person depression if they were in those same circumstances.....thus not a mental illness but a normal reaction to genuinely depressing circumstances.

It becomes rather complex though when what some would consider to be a very depressing situation is not what other people would consider to be a necessarily depressing situation or circumstance, that is the type based more on an individuals personality and/or psychological makeup or outlook imv.

Though many people are wrongly diagnosed as having a 'mental illness' when they do not have a mental illness in any way whatsoever (the psychological and psychiatric 'professional' sphere seems to have 'mental illness' labels to categorize pretty much everyone into)..... true and genuine mental illnesses do in fact exist, and what is called 'personality disorders' do exist.

One could be mislabeled or incorrectly diagnosed as having a personality disorder or one could actually have a personality disorder, whether it is ever correctly diagnosed or not ever diagnosed (except unofficially sometimes perhaps by someone or people who know the person well on a close personal level or a person who is generally mentally healthy could possibly see it because it is rather obvious by the way that person acts/behaves).

The worst thing is to have someone with a genuine personality disorder or mental illness going around 'diagnosing' other people.

The mentally disordered person may even, against the odds, end up being correct about someone, but they are not in all likelihood doing it in a way that will actually help the other person, it is often done to cause damage to the other person out of their own personality disorder or mental illness..

Whether the ones doing the 'diagnosing' be someone who has no basis in which to do so (they only think they do because of their own personality disorder or mental illness) or whether they be 'trained' professional psychiatrists/psychologists (whose 'training' should be foder for a true psychological assessment itself or the psychiatrist him or herself has a personality disorder/mental illness or is operating out of or within a corrupt system) .
Last Edit: 12 Jul 2019 15:06 by annabelle.
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Part Two of Rethinking the Current Paradigm of Psychiatric Care 13 Jul 2019 13:01 #23

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annabelle wrote:
..... true and genuine mental illnesses do in fact exist, and what is called 'personality disorders' do exist.
Do you think drugs or shock treatments are appropriate treatments?
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Part Two of Rethinking the Current Paradigm of Psychiatric Care 14 Jul 2019 02:31 #24

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I think for certain genuine mental illnesses and/or personality disorders that there are prescribed drugs that when appropriately and carefully managed can be of use on a long term level.

I don't like the idea of electroconvulsive therapy, causing a temporary seizure while a patient is under anesthetic (or not under anesthetic for that matter).
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Part Two of Rethinking the Current Paradigm of Psychiatric Care 14 Jul 2019 13:27 #25

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annabelle wrote:
I think for certain genuine mental illnesses and/or personality disorders that there are prescribed drugs that when appropriately and carefully managed can be of use on a long term level.
Can you give an example?
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Part Two of Rethinking the Current Paradigm of Psychiatric Care 15 Jul 2019 03:47 #26

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Would giving examples really make a difference if you don't believe or don't appear to believe that there are people who genuinely suffer from real mental illnesses and personality disorders?
Last Edit: 15 Jul 2019 03:47 by annabelle.
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Part Two of Rethinking the Current Paradigm of Psychiatric Care 15 Jul 2019 12:25 #27

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annabelle wrote:
Would giving examples really make a difference if you don't believe or don't appear to believe that there are people who genuinely suffer from real mental illnesses and personality disorders?
You're evading the question.

It's a good question.

Do you have an answer?

You seem to be talking in generalities, from assumption, it appears.

You need to be specific if you're going to make a point.

I have posted a lot of testimony about harmful effects of drugs. What do you have to counteract what I've posted?

What drug for what mental illness do you know about that is helpful?
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Part Two of Rethinking the Current Paradigm of Psychiatric Care 15 Jul 2019 13:34 #28

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I am not evading the question, just making a valid point.

Bipolar disorder would be one. As far as medication, there is no one medication, it would be what works for the person which can take time to figure out, what works and what doesn't on an individual basis.

Bipolar Disorder: Stories of Coping and Courage
secure2.convio.net/dabsa/site/SPageServer/?NONCE_TOKEN=B05232DB4745AD4C13A32345C712DFFC&pagename=education_brochures_bipolar_disorder_stories_of_coping
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Part Two of Rethinking the Current Paradigm of Psychiatric Care 15 Jul 2019 14:39 #29

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There are also people who are fairly diagnosed as a psychopath or sociopath as well as narcissistic personality disorder. As far as treatment goes, others may disagree, but I don't believe there is treatment that will change a psychopath, a sociopath or someone with a bonafide narcissistic personality disorder.

Whatever the diagnostic category they are put in.....it is real.

When it comes to genuine mental illness, there are absolutely numerous examples of it that plays out in the news, like this guy...

Man who beheaded Greyhound bus passenger granted full discharge

Bus 1170 : Vince Li and the Greyhound Bus Murder (2011) - the fifth estate




WINNIPEG — Vince Li, who now goes by Will Baker, was granted full discharge Friday afternoon. Baker was found not criminally responsible for killing Tim McLean on a Greyhound bus in 2008.

Baker beheaded and cannibalized McLean while suffering a schizophrenic episode. Baker was found NCR for his actions, on account of mental disorder in 2009.

Because Baker was found NCR, he was eligible to apply for an absolute discharge which he was granted Friday afternoon, according to a report from Manitoba’s Criminal Code Review Board. This means he is no longer subject to any conditions.

Based on evidence presented at a recent hearing, the board feels Baker does not pose a significant threat to the safety of the public.

McLean’s mother, Carol de Delley, has been outspoken against granting Baker freedom, saying there would be no way to ensure he continued to take his medication.

She declined comment in a post on Facebook Friday.

“I have no words,” she posted.

Baker was initially kept in a secure wing of a psychiatric hospital but was given more freedom every year.

He has been living on his own in a Winnipeg apartment since November, but was still subject to monitoring to ensure he took his medication.

Baker’s doctor, Jeffrey Waldman, told the board earlier this week that he is confident Baker will remain on his medication and will continue to work with his treatment team if released. Waldman testified that Baker knows it’s the medication that keeps his illness at bay.

In a written decision, the review board said it “is of the opinion that the weight of evidence does not substantiate that Mr. Baker poses a significant threat to the safety of the public.”

Baker sat next to the 22-year-old McLean on the bus after the young man smiled at him and asked how he was doing.

Baker said he heard the voice of God telling him to kill the young carnival worker or “die immediately.”

He repeatedly stabbed McLean while the young man fought for his life. As passengers fled the bus, Baker continued stabbing and mutilating the body before he was arrested.


The Supreme Court of Canada ruled in 1999 that a review board must order an absolute discharge if a person doesn’t pose a significant threat to public safety.

globalnews.ca/news/3242308/man-who-beheaded-greyhound-bus-passenger-granted-full-discharge/

In my opinion that was an unjustifiable decision to release him. The man repeatedly stabbed a fellow passenger who was on a Greyhound bus, this poor young man, Tim McLean, tried to fight for his life on the bus. Vince Li then cut off his head on the Greyhound bus and began eating him. (Police later discovered body parts of Tim McLean in Li's pants pockets, what appeared to be an ear, part of a nose and a portion of mouth in a white plastic bag).

Classified by professionals as having been having a 'schizophrenic episode' when this happened, he has now been deemed safe to be in the general public and released without conditions.

It is my opinion that if a person, because of mental illness such as is classified as schizophrenia, murders someone and or commits heinous criminal and violent acts, they should not be liable for release (and with no conditions or restrictions or monitoring either) because a panel decides that the person is no longer a threat because the mentally ill person now understands that they need to keep taking their prescribed medications, and if they don't take them there is no way to know since they (like Li) are released without conditions.

Murdering and cannibalizing someone on a bus because he smiled at him and asked him politely how he was doing, cutting off the guy's head and eating him IS a public threat and to release him, to legally be able to release him after a short time period (after three years I believe) because he is deemed 'safe' for release and any without conditions, puts public safety at risk, which I believe should come first.
Last Edit: 15 Jul 2019 14:49 by annabelle.
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Part Two of Rethinking the Current Paradigm of Psychiatric Care 15 Jul 2019 15:28 #30

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annabelle wrote: That appears to be a good website.

I'm not an expert; I'm only an advocate because I began researching this after listening to Dr Peter Breggin's talks, which I found compelling.

Thank you for your contribution to the thread.
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Part Two of Rethinking the Current Paradigm of Psychiatric Care 15 Jul 2019 15:35 #31

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annabelle wrote:
When it comes to genuine mental illness, there are absolutely numerous examples of it that plays out in the news, like this guy...
It is hard to evaluate horror stories in the news, because there are black projects that create mind-controlled individuals who carry out heinous acts, as well as staged terror using actors, both carried out to further the agenda of the powers that be.

That is a whole other topic.

On this thread I am concerned about ordinary people in distress not getting caught up in a system that can hurt them badly, and to try to give alternative sources for treatment without medication or shock treatments.
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Part Two of Rethinking the Current Paradigm of Psychiatric Care 15 Jul 2019 16:16 #32

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There are those who know people with a mental illness, are related to them, close friends etc...who end up getting hurt badly because the mentally ill or personality disordered person refuses to acknowledge there is anything wrong with them or if they do seek help they are misdiagnosed or diagnosed accurately but they refuse to try any kind of medication or treatment whatsoever so continue driving those around them up the wall on an ongoing basis and they end of losing friends, their families suffer etc..

edit:
And 'horror stories' happen to the lives of ordinary people who don't make it on the news when it comes to certain types of mental illness
Last Edit: 15 Jul 2019 16:22 by annabelle.
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Part Two of Rethinking the Current Paradigm of Psychiatric Care 15 Jul 2019 16:20 #33

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annabelle wrote:
There are those who know people with a mental illness, are related to them, close friends etc...who end up getting hurt badly because the mentally ill or personality disordered person refuses to acknowledge there is anything wrong with them or if they do seek help they are misdiagnosed or diagnosed accurately but refuse to go on any kind of medication or treatment so continue driving those around them up the wall on an ongoing basis and they end of losing friends, their families suffer etc..
There are initiatives previously posted which are attempts to provide a better system.

This is a work in progress.
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Part Two of Rethinking the Current Paradigm of Psychiatric Care 18 Jul 2019 02:13 #34

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