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TOPIC: More Banking Problems

More Banking Problems 06 Oct 2012 09:56 #1

  • Gilly
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What's with these vaguely described 'system errors' all of a sudden? :conf:

Lloyds Group and Co-op resolve banking issues
Banking groups apologise for customers being unable to access their money and say system errors have been resolved

Mark King
guardian.co.uk, Friday 5 October 2012 16.49 BST


Millions of bank customers have been unable to access their cash following IT troubles at two separate banking groups.

Lloyds TSB, Halifax, Co-operative and Smile customers reported being unable to access their accounts, withdraw money or make purchases in stores.

The glitch came hot on the heels of a high profile IT issue at Royal Bank of Scotland in June which left millions of NatWest, Ulster Bank and RBS account holders without cash.

Lloyds TSB and Halifax, owned by Lloyds Banking Group, managed to re-establish normal services after an hour, and problems were fixed within two hours at the Co-op and Smile.

Many customers transferred to the Co-op following disruption to services at RBS and NatWest.

Industry experts were unable to explain why systems failures affected two separate banking groups at the same time on the same day.

Lloyds TSB customers took to Twitter to complain about the disruption. @SaladUK wrote: "My card was declined just now, it said 'Card declined' on the ATM but my internet banking is working. What's going on?."

@Emily_92 added: "Thanks a lot Lloyds TSB! It's not like I wanted to buy that shopping anyway. I just queued up for the fun of it!"

Co-op customer Jane Morley (@jm3twink) also weighed in: "Just had a panic as couldn't draw cash out but phoned bank & all Smile systems are down."

A Lloyds Banking Group spokesman said: "We experienced technical issues that affected some customers. All of our systems are now up and running. We are working hard to process the transactions impacted by this problem and they will be resolved before the close of play today.

"We know our customers rely on us, and we apologise for the inconvenience we have caused them."

A Co-op bank spokesperson said: "Our systems are fixed and customers should now be able to use their accounts as normal. We would like to apologise to those affected for the inconvenience caused by this temporary issue."

Customers of RBS and NatWest had their ordinary banking services back up and running within days, but the chaos affected Ulster Bank customers for a month.


www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/oct/05/co-op-customers-without-cash-lloyds-resolves-issues?newsfeed=true
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More Banking Problems 07 Oct 2012 02:43 #2

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Are all these banks failing to disclose hacking attempts and the vulnerability of processing money digitally? Aren't these events enough of a heads up for people to understand the consequences of placing their trust/faith and cash in systems that are prone to error and or control over their assets? At least in the not so distant past people would have had alternatives when something like this occurred, they would have held a mixture of credit/debit cards, cheques and cash. :roll:

It doesn't matter how rational you are or what measures you take to ward of this kind of shit the masses are going to drag you down with them regardless! :(

"Whenever you're in conflict with someone, there is one factor that can make the difference between damaging your relationship and deepening it. That factor is attitude." William James
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More Banking Problems 07 Oct 2012 08:37 #3

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I don't think employers will take you on these days unless you have a bank account for them to deposit your wages into, so you're screwed if you've nothing in your pocket & can't access your funds due to these 'system faults'.

The accountants I work for operate (amongst other things) a whole lot of umbrella companies for contractors, & their bank account's with RBS, so when their cock up occurred in June, it was complete pandemonium. Our clients were on the phone screaming all day long, and those whose work involve extensive travel were saying they wouldn't be able to get to work the following week. We were on the phone to the bank all day, and they were saying that they could see that the company bank account had sufficient funds to pay out these people's wages, but a part of the computer system couldn't detect the money's presence, so wouldn't allow any to be released.

Payment of fees to us from employers who also banked with RBS were also not showing as having been received.

These latest instances seem to have been resolved more quickly, but it's not very encouraging to see that 3 banks have now had this type of problem within a short space of time.
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More Banking Problems 07 Oct 2012 08:47 #4

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Yes Gilly ive seen people not be able to access funds even in Australia when there have been glitches.

Its not a bad idea to have an alternative bank account with another bank or spare money elsewhere.
I remember the good old days, when 90+ year olds in nursing homes lived forever. Darn this pesky virus.

1365 = 1

1.1365 = 1,283,305,580,313,352
Last Edit: 07 Oct 2012 08:48 by novum.
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More Banking Problems 07 Oct 2012 08:56 #5

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Or cash under the matress, guarded by this...



There are a lot of folk these days who live hand to mouth, and don't have any surplus to stash elsewhere as a contingency.
Last Edit: 07 Oct 2012 08:56 by Gilly.
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More Banking Problems 07 Oct 2012 09:07 #6

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Gilly wrote:
There are a lot of folk these days who live hand to mouth, and don't have any surplus to stash elsewhere as a contingency.

yeah i know, agree, and i realise this even when making my post...not possible for everyone.

I guess a credit card is another realistic backup...if people can try not use it and just hold it for emergencies then top it back up again. :hide:
I remember the good old days, when 90+ year olds in nursing homes lived forever. Darn this pesky virus.

1365 = 1

1.1365 = 1,283,305,580,313,352
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More Banking Problems 07 Oct 2012 09:08 #7

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I wouldn't be surprised if these outages were as a direct result of hacking attempts. The banks are constantly being targeted by organised hacking gangs overseas. They probably suffer significant losses as a result but they will never admit that these things have taken place because it would expose how vulnerable the digital domain actually is. These recent events have impacted customer services directly possibly to system closures which have been triggered to prevent the hemorrhaging of money from their accounts.

The increased speed of recovery may indicate that the software developers and security teams have a better understanding of this particular attack vector that hackers may have been attempting to exploit. The hackers only need to make minor variations to breach the previous patches applied by the developers, in order to gain access to the systems, at which point they simply restart their siphoning routines.

Computers are highly vulnerable especially when the rewards are potentially huge. There are some extremely smart people out there both defending the illusion of system security and others continually attacking it.

My opinions are just a hunch and it's doubtful that anything supporting it would be released by the banking system, so we will never know what really happened in these events.

"Whenever you're in conflict with someone, there is one factor that can make the difference between damaging your relationship and deepening it. That factor is attitude." William James
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More Banking Problems 07 Oct 2012 09:16 #8

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I got 300 bucks out of an ATM a few weeks ago and it never took the 300 out of my account or recorded the transaction.

That thing was paying out!
I remember the good old days, when 90+ year olds in nursing homes lived forever. Darn this pesky virus.

1365 = 1

1.1365 = 1,283,305,580,313,352
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More Banking Problems 07 Oct 2012 09:44 #9

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novum wrote:
I got 300 bucks out of an ATM a few weeks ago and it never took the 300 out of my account or recorded the transaction.

That thing was paying out!

You lucky bugger! I sincerely hope you spent it & said nothing! :chuckle:

I think you're right, too Frog. It's the norm for companies to never offer a proper explanation for stuff to their customers, which I think is wrong. Where people's money is concerned, they have a right to know what's going on.
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More Banking Problems 07 Oct 2012 10:21 #10

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Gilly wrote:
You lucky bugger! I sincerely hope you spent it & said nothing! :chuckle:

I didnt call the customer complaints number thats for sure. ;)
I remember the good old days, when 90+ year olds in nursing homes lived forever. Darn this pesky virus.

1365 = 1

1.1365 = 1,283,305,580,313,352
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More Banking Problems 07 Oct 2012 10:30 #11

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novum wrote:
Gilly wrote:
You lucky bugger! I sincerely hope you spent it & said nothing! :chuckle:

I didnt call the customer complaints number thats for sure. ;)

Maybe you should complain next time you draw three hundred bucks out and they actually deduct it from your account. Cheeky buggers! :hahano:

"Whenever you're in conflict with someone, there is one factor that can make the difference between damaging your relationship and deepening it. That factor is attitude." William James
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More Banking Problems 09 Oct 2012 21:11 #12

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novum wrote:
I got 300 bucks out of an ATM a few weeks ago and it never took the 300 out of my account or recorded the transaction.

That thing was paying out!

That reminds me of something that happened here a few years ago. One friday night a bloke went to withdraw money from a cashpoint in Manchester and found it was paying out double! He requested £100 or whatever, the machine recorded his withdrawal as £100, but paid him £200.

Anyway, rather than report the fault, he and his family spent the rest of the weekend withdrawing as much cash from it as their limits would allow. :D

If I recall correctly though, he ended up with a suspended prison sentence because of it. Hey, you don't get away with shafting the banks eh. They get away with shafting us though...thats perfectly acceptable apparently.

I'll see if I can find the story in the Manchester Evening News archives or somewhere..
The pen is mightier than the sword
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More Banking Problems 09 Oct 2012 21:20 #13

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Yeah thats why i didnt go back and try again...tempted as i was to do exactly that.

Bird in the hand and all that.

If its a one off i think you could plead ignorance...not everyone scans their account details...but if you keep returning and behave in a way inconsistent to previous withdrawal behaviour...if they spot a fault with the machine they will try pin you for sure.
I remember the good old days, when 90+ year olds in nursing homes lived forever. Darn this pesky virus.

1365 = 1

1.1365 = 1,283,305,580,313,352
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More Banking Problems 09 Oct 2012 21:25 #14

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You've got good criminal instincts then, Nov. :chuckle:
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