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TOPIC: We are all benefits scroungers

We are all benefits scroungers 22 Jun 2013 21:02 #1

  • Chuck Random
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Figures published in today’s Daily Telegraph reveal that the vast majority of UK tax payers are likely to take far more out of the welfare budget than they ever pay in.

The Government are soon to send out statements showing how much tax people pay towards the social security budget, NHS and other government departments annually. The Telegraph have used these figures to work out how much tax people are likely to pay over a lifetime in what appears to be a crude attempt to use big numbers to undermine support for publicly funded healthcare and the welfare state.

This had led the paper splashing a story across their front pages today claiming: “A person who earns an average salary of £50,000 over a 43-year career will contribute £219,039 to state welfare and pension spending.”

The next sentence however reveals the truth of the situation: “They would have to receive the state pension for 38 years to become a net beneficiary.”

Now this may be optimistic, but it’s not impossible, meaning even some of the highest earners will get all the tax they spent on social security back in their pension. The figures are also deliberately misleading. Few people, even the highest paid, start their career on £50,000 a year, so these earners would have to be on significantly more than that by the time they retire for this to be a career average salary

Far more importantly the figures also show that someone on £25k a year, just under the average wage of £26,500 (but still far more than many people earn), will pay a total of £80,854.19 towards the social security budget in their lifetime.

Pension Credit, the minimum income guaranteed for single pensioners is £145.40. This means that an average earner who lives just ten years after retiring receives every penny they’ve paid into the social security system back in pension payments.

And this is assuming they didn’t have children. A couple of kids means average earners will also receive around £30,000 in Child Benefit.

Whilst everybody’s circumstances are different, so precise calculations are impossible, it is likely that most of those on salaries of up to around £30/35k are a net drain on the social security budget.

And this is before what most people regard as benefits are even taken into account. Any of these tax payers who have ever needed to claim in-work benefits such as tax or child credits, housing benefit or funding for child care will receive far more over their lifetimes. On top of this, should they ever become unemployed, unwell or disabled, they will be be eligible for the increasingly scant support of the benefit system.

Whilst benefits are under attack like never before, the value of this level of social protection is still not insignificant. Even the most basic private income protection insurance, which doesn’t include cover for disability and would only provide a tiny income for a year, is likely to cost around £20,000 over a 43 year career. Job Seekers Allowance, the benefit for those unemployed, is just over 2% of total welfare sending, costing around £1,600 over the lifetime of the average tax payer.

But after they’ve received their pension and any child benefits, the vast majority of tax payers are actually getting this comprehensive social insurance for free!

The reason for this situation is the huge disparity in wealth in the UK. Last year the Daily Telegraph ran a piece whinging that the top 1% of earners pay 30% of the tax. But that’s because they’ve got so much of the money. As recently pointed out by someone else (but I can’t remember who), if they had all the money, they’d pay all the tax and they’d no doubt still be fucking complaining. This is despite the fact that almost all government spending is geared towards helping them become as rich as possible whilst remaining safe from the threat of crime or revolution. The amount they pay in tax is nothing compared to the amount of profit they earn from our work. That is why the rich keep getting richer and we keep getting poorer.

This chasm between the very rich, and the rest of us, means that most people, whatever they may think, are a drain on government spending. So the next time you hear someone complaining about how their taxes pay for people on benefits perhaps you could gently remind them that the chances are they don’t pay a penny towards the benefit bill. In fact it’s quite likely they are one of those benefit scroungers that everyone is always complaining about.

johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/page/2/
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We are all benefits scroungers 23 Jun 2013 02:57 #2

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This Government are the benefit scroungers, end of. So was the last one, and the one before that, ad infinitum.

Not rocket science...
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We are all benefits scroungers 23 Jun 2013 22:00 #3

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diamondgeezer wrote:
This Government are the benefit scroungers, end of. So was the last one, and the one before that, ad infinitum.

Not rocket science...

Agreed. And large corporations.

But unfortunately propaganda against benefits is currently immense. I think it all too frequently gets lost that the British people get a bargain where only the very rich tend to get less out than they put in. Which of course is why there is immense pressure to destroy the whole thing and subject us all to some privatised rip-off replacement. insurance scams or whatever.
I've had several ordinary, usually pretty reasonable people grumble to me about people sitting there on benefits my taxes blah blah blah. STFU - you ain't losing anything. But you will if you keep believing people telling you you are because that's the excuse to rip us all off in the long run.
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Last Edit: 23 Jun 2013 22:01 by Chuck Random.
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We are all benefits scroungers 23 Jun 2013 23:23 #4

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The demonisation of people on benefits in the mainstream media always increases under a tory government, have you noticed?

Make no mistake, this lot would scrap benefits full-stop and bring back the Victorian workhouse system if they could get away with it.

People's taxes wouldn't decrease in any way as a result if they did however, make no mistake about that too..... :roll:
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We are all benefits scroungers 24 Jun 2013 21:24 #5

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It did start happening under Labour as well, just not to this extent. Labour will also not reverse the changes.

I think tax would be cut. For the rich. While ordinary people pay the same or more. The UKIP policy of a flat rate of income tax for everybody is probably what the future holds. This will mean a massive tax cut for the rich and a tax hike for the poor.

In related news, yet another person has killed themselves over benefits cuts. These stories are turning up with depressing regularity, and they're just the ones that make the news.
www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/witnesses-tell-shock-after-woman-4417272
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We are all benefits scroungers 24 Jun 2013 21:43 #6

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Chuck Random wrote:
It did start happening under Labour as well, just not to this extent. Labour will also not reverse the changes.

Very true. What are Labour now? A joke that's what. As for the Lib Dems.... :roll:

Welcome to the one-party state...
I think tax would be cut. For the rich. While ordinary people pay the same or more.

Also agreed. That's the intent all right.

You can't blame UKIP for all this though. They didn't create this scenario, & their primary goal is just to get us out of the EU, and there's nothing wrong with that in my book.
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We are all benefits scroungers 24 Jun 2013 22:11 #7

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diamondgeezer wrote:
Chuck Random wrote:
It did start happening under Labour as well, just not to this extent. Labour will also not reverse the changes.

Very true. What are Labour now? A joke that's what. As for the Lib Dems.... :roll:

Welcome to the one-party state...
I think tax would be cut. For the rich. While ordinary people pay the same or more.

Also agreed. That's the intent all right.

You can't blame UKIP for all this though. They didn't create this scenario, & their primary goal is just to get us out of the EU, and there's nothing wrong with that in my book.

One party state indeed.

I'd disagree about UKIP. No they didn't create the scenario, but they're full of the sort of people who advocate the policies that did. And they are about far more than exiting the EU - they have a full set of policies that appear to have been written by the Daily Mail.
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We are all benefits scroungers 24 Jun 2013 22:20 #8

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It takes us back to a fundamental question doesn't it.

Why do no parties on the 'left' of the political spectrum advocate exiting the EU? ANYWHERE?

Despite the fact that the EU is quite obviously bad news for everyone in Europe (except for a bunch of unelected clowns is Brussels)

I really don't get it.
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We are all benefits scroungers 25 Jun 2013 23:45 #9

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diamondgeezer wrote:
It takes us back to a fundamental question doesn't it.

Why do no parties on the 'left' of the political spectrum advocate exiting the EU? ANYWHERE?

Despite the fact that the EU is quite obviously bad news for everyone in Europe (except for a bunch of unelected clowns is Brussels)

I really don't get it.

It's a bit difficult to say as there aren't any significant parties on the left of the political spectrum anyway.
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