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TOPIC: Killing The Poor Thread

Killing The Poor Thread 29 Nov 2013 22:14 #1

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Thought I'd start a thread for occasional posting of incidents arising from the government policy of killing poor and vulnerable people in their drive to impoverish ordinary people to subsidise the rich in their ongoing class war.
Bristol woman 'killed herself after benefits were stopped'

PARTIALLY-sighted and only able to walk with the aid of a stick, Jacqueline Harris suffered crippling pain due to slipped discs in her back and neck. Her mobility was reduced further when a dog savaged one of her wrists.

Despite being in agony which strong pain relief could not ease, the 53-year-old was deemed to be fit for work following a government health assessment and told to find a job.

Her sister claims the verdict that she was ineligible for disability benefits drove her to take her own life earlier this month.

Nurse Christine Norman, top right, said her fitness-to-work assessment at a government-run centre lasted only a few minutes.

It is claimed that during the test she was only asked one question – "Did you come here by bus?", to which she answered 'yes'. The widow later received a letter by post telling her to find employment.

Ms Harris contested the ruling but was found dead at her home in Speedwell Road, Kingswood, on November 2 having taken an overdose.

A Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) tribunal hearing had been due to take place to consider her appeal two weeks later.

Her older sister Mrs Norman, 57, from Whitchurch, said her sibling was already low due to her health problems but could not bear the pressure of being forced into work.

She said: "She said couldn't do it anymore and that no-one was listening to her and no-one cared. She told me she couldn't work and that nobody believed her.

She just wanted her benefit so she could have avoided the pressure of work – it wasn't a massive amount of money."

Of the appointment at the assessment centre last year, she said her sister spent two hours on two buses travelling to the centre, run by private firm Atos Healthcare, and spent only two minutes having an assessment. Mother-of-two Mrs Norman said her sister was only asked one question at the assessment: "Did you get here by bus?"

"She replied with one fateful word – 'yes'," said Mrs Norman. "She hadn't even had the chance to take her coat off.

"If she was addicted to alcohol or drugs, she would have been given a sick note.

"Being a nurse and a health professional I am so disappointed – anyone could see she wasn't fit to work. She would have loved to have had a job but couldn't.

"How much grief, pain and anguish do you have to go through before they realise?"

Following the ruling, her benefits were stopped in January and she sought help through the Citizens' Advice Bureau.

Her first appeal against the decision failed, but the second appeal was due to be heard at HM Court Tribunal Service in Cardiff on November 15.

Ms Harris suffered from arthritis in her neck and back due to her slipped discs but her pain was exacerbated after an unsuccessful operation on her neck last year.

She was left in agony every time one of her arms was touched, making everyday tasks a huge challenge.

Bones from her hand had been removed during separate surgery after she had been attacked by a dog she had agreed to look after at her home.

She had previously been a recipient of incapacity benefit but was trying to claim its replacement called an Employment and Support Allowance, first introduced in 2008.

Paying tribute to her sister, a former nurse who lost her husband Brian six years ago, Mrs Norman said she tried to remain positive despite facing an uphill struggle every day.

Mrs Norman said: "She was gregarious and loved dogs, and music and to boogie as much as her back would allow. She was an intelligent girl."

An inquest into Ms Harris' death has been opened and adjourned.

A Department for Work and Pensions spokeswoman said: "Our sympathy goes out to the family of Mrs Harris during what must be a very difficult time.

"A decision on whether someone is well enough to work is taken following a thorough assessment and after consideration of all the supporting medical evidence.

"Through a series of independent reviews and by working with medical experts and charities, we have considerably improved the work capability assessment process since 2010 to make it fairer and more accurate."

An Atos spokeswoman said: "Our sympathies go out to Ms Harris's family.

"Atos Healthcare carries out assessments on behalf of the Department for Work and Pensions and under its guidelines. But we do not make decisions on people's benefit entitlement, nor are we involved in the appeal process."

www.bristolpost.co.uk/sister-killed-disability-benefit-stopped/story-20170841-detail/story.html
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Killing The Poor Thread 29 Nov 2013 22:22 #2

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It's a really sad story. As we know, there are numerous other ones out there.....

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Killing The Poor Thread 29 Nov 2013 22:24 #3

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Welfare Reform Blamed For Soaring Malnutrition



Cuts to social security, stagnating wages and high fuel bills have been blamed for a trebling of hospital admissions due to malnutrition in Leeds.

According to the Yorkshire Evening Post, 93 people needed hospital treatment for malnutrition in 2012, compared to just 30 in 2008. These tragic cases could represent the tip of the iceberg says Councillor Lisa Mulherin, warning that the number of hospital admissions: “tells us something about the changes to the welfare system, wage stagnation and the way fuel prices have gone up out of all proportion with people’s pay.”

A shocking 27,000 people across Leeds were estimated to be suffering from or at risk of clinical nutrition said health professionals in the city last year.

Appalling the situation is likely to become far worse as a wave of cuts to benefits begins to bite. The Bedroom Tax is just a few months old and 9000 households in Leeds are estimated to be affected. Changes to Council Tax Benefit mean claimants in the city will now have to pay a weekly sum out of their already meagre incomes. The re-assessment of people on sickness benefits is still far from complete and many people are still to face having benefits slashed due to being found ‘fit for work’. When reforms to Disability Living Allowance finally take hold around a fifth of disabled people are expected to lose this vital benefit.

The pain doesn’t even end there. George Osborne’s benefit uprating bill represents a real term cut in almost all benefits, pegging annual rises far below inflation at just 1%. The poorest people in the country are set to be made steadily poorer over the next few years. The rise in benefit claims being sanctioned for not meeting ever more draconian conditions for claiming out of work benefits is leading to horrific suffering, and the number of people affected is rising sharply.

A recent report by Citizens Advice found that 70% of claimants serving sanctions were forced to cut down on food, with some people reporting having to beg or go through bins to find something to eat. For those with health conditions the situation is even more acute. One person told Citizens Advice that during a sanction: “We couldn’t afford a meal each day so often didn’t eat for days on end. I suffer with hypoglycaemia and need to eat, so this left me with many black outs, confusion, incredibly weak and sick.”

According to callous Ministers in the DWP, this kind of desperate poverty will ‘incentivise’ people to find work. Yet even if the Government’s manufactured unemployment figures are taken at face value, the miniscule rise in jobs has not been seen across the whole of the UK and certainly not in many northern cities like Leeds. The number of unemployed people in Yorkshire rose by 4000 in the last three months.

Forcing unemployed people to the brink of starvation will not create a single job. Yet still Iain Duncan Smith tries to foist the blame for poverty and unemployment onto the poor and unemployed. Rarely has any modern Government shown such cruel indifference to the suffering of their poorest people. That this kind of state-inflicted poverty is happening in one of the richest countries in the world should be a global scandal.

johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/page/2/
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Killing The Poor Thread 29 Nov 2013 22:29 #4

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Gravesend man hangs himself after sickness benefits were cut



An unemployed man committed suicide by hanging himself because his sickness benefits had been cut, an inquest in Gravesend heard.

Victor Cuff, 59, had been drinking heavily before he hanged himself on 22 May. His body was found in his bedroom by his neighbour Colleen Gobel, who had noted police with concerns she had not seen Mr Cuff all day.

Ms Gobel told police he was struggling with depression and had been “feeling down” after his sickness benefits were cut, the News Shopper reported.

Detective Sergeant James Greenidge, of North Kent Police was called to Mr Cuff’s property at 6.11pm. He told the inquest: “He was lying in bed and it appeared he hanged himself”.

”There was evidence he was drunk.“

A post-mortem found the alcohol levels in his blood were four times the legal limit for driving and enough to induce a coma.

A verdict of suicide was recorded by Coroner Roger Hatch.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/gravesend-man-hangs-himself-after-sickness-benefits-were-cut-8972763.html
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Killing The Poor Thread 01 Dec 2013 22:20 #5

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Thanks for this thread OP and contributing posts.

Many of those who have died in various ways have not been in the media. Followed George Rolph (hunger strike) for a while but the last news of him was this past July; a HoC debate about him and his activist protest was denied.
There is a petition circulating that closes 12 December. It calls for a a Cumulative Impact Assessment of Welfare Reform, and a New Deal for sick & disabled people based on their needs, abilities and ambitions. It has gathered the 100k signatures required to be considered for debate by the Backbench Business Committee but more signatures can only underscore the urgency of debate about what is happening to society's most vulnerable and their carers as well as critical review and humane reform of the recent changes to welfare.

Cumulative Impact Assessment Petition DEADLINE 12 December 2013
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Killing The Poor Thread 01 Dec 2013 22:28 #6

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Signed. :)
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Killing The Poor Thread 01 Dec 2013 22:40 #7

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Thanks, pheony! :)

Also to add.... there is some rumour on the net that the UN is looking into the bleak results of welfare reform in the UK (eg policies and resultant consequences of death, suicide, hunger, homelessness and the human rights violation of of no pay workfare). Not seen any links or evidence yet, but will look out for that and post more when I have some facts.
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Killing The Poor Thread 01 Dec 2013 22:50 #8

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That will make for interesting reading, syxx. I'll see what I can find as well. :)
Last Edit: 01 Dec 2013 22:51 by pheony.
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Killing The Poor Thread 01 Dec 2013 22:56 #9

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I was talking with an elderly lady last week who has just been kicked off sickness benefit onto JSA and had now been 'sanctioned', which means she will receive no benefits, at all.

Which means her rent isn't going to be paid, so she will possibly end up homeless.

She's ill, not fit to work. What this govt are doing is a disgrace. :(
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Killing The Poor Thread 01 Dec 2013 23:05 #10

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I have found this on housing /bedroom tax, (I can remember reading about this a while ago ) but nothing on the other human rights violations as of yet. Will post when I do find something.

www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=13706&LangID=E
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Killing The Poor Thread 26 Dec 2013 13:58 #11

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Disabled Kinver man killed himself after being left "almost destitute" when his state benefits were axed

A DISABLED Kinver man killed himself after his state benefits were stopped, leaving him "almost destitute" - a coroner has ruled.

Tim Salter, aged 53, who was partially sighted and suffered from mental health problems, was found hanged at his home just days before he was due to be evicted over rent arrears.

His heartbroken family say he fell behind with payments after the Government axed his state benefits - having declared him fit for work under a new regime geared at getting the long-term unemployed off the dole.

Mr Salter's devastated sister Linda Cooksey said: "It just sent him over the edge.

"He must have felt so worthless and that life wasn't worth living.”

Mr Salter, of Meddins Lane, had been registered partially blind since 1994 after an overdose in 1989 damaged his vision.

Previously he'd worked as an assistant sales manager at Owen Owen in Stourbridge in the 80s but he failed to find further employment after leaving. Depression and the suicide attempt followed, after which he never worked again.

Mrs Cooksey, aged 60, said her brother, who was agoraphobic, “never asked for help” and she never imagined changes to the country’s benefits system would affect him.

Relatives only pieced together his dire predicament after discovering a repossession order from South Staffordshire Housing Association in the bin. Dated September 17 - it had given Mr Salter ten days to leave the home he had lived in all his life.

He committed suicide on September 25, two days before the eviction date.

As his financial situation became apparent relatives presented paperwork to Staffordshire coroner Andrew Haigh and at an inquest on December 3 he concluded: "A major factor in his death was that his state benefits had been greatly reduced leaving him almost destitute and with threatened repossession of his home."

Mr Salter's family has since written to the Prime Minister and South Staffordshire MP Gavin Williamson over his death.

David Cameron's reply expressed "sincere condolences" and said concerns about benefit changes had been passed to the Department for Work and Pensions while Mr Williamson promised to raise the matter with Government Ministers and that "lessons will be learnt".

He added: "This is a truly awful situation. The Government takes cases like this very seriously indeed.

"We are doing our best to ensure that when people enter the workplace they are given the support they need and not left in limbo.

"However it is equally important to ensure people are not mistakenly identified as being fit for work when they are not."

A spokesman for South Staffordshire Housing Association said: “We were very sad to hear of the death of Timothy Salter and have met members of his family to extend our sympathy and offer them support.

“Cuts to benefits are causing distress very widely, including to many of our customers.

“We work very hard to avoid getting to the stage of seeking possession of any of our properties by calling, visiting and writing to customers who we believe are struggling with their finances to offer them advice and support.

“Offers were made to Mr Salter on a number of occasions between July and September. We always try our best to talk to customers in difficulties to offer help and advice but if they do not respond it is difficult for us to provide the practical support that could help them.”

However Mrs Cooksey, who discovered her brother’s body hanging in the hallway, said "he couldn’t ask for help", adding: "He didn’t want to be a burden on anyone.

“I think he'd just got that depressed and down he was just ignoring everything after being told he was fit for work.”

Mr Salter's benefits stopped on December 22 2012 after an assessment of his health and abilities - and relatives believe he lived off savings until the money ran out.

Mrs Cooksey said: “He was never extravagant, didn’t go on holiday and never had a car. I totally believe he'd still be alive now if they hadn't stopped his money.”

The Department for Work and Pensions said a decision on whether someone is well enough to work is taken only after a "thorough assessment" and consideration of medical evidence provided by the claimant and everyone has the right to appeal.

A spokesman expressed "condolences to Mr Salter's family" and added: "Whenever people's benefits change we do our best to ensure the right support is available to help them through the transition as we know this can be a difficult time."

www.stourbridgenews.co.uk/news/10892787.Disabled_Kinver_man_killed_himself_after_being_left__almost_destitute__when_his_state_benefits_were_axed/
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Killing The Poor Thread 26 Dec 2013 14:00 #12

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Christmas cancelled for Gloucester disabled family after dad falls through benefit net

‘CHRISTMAS is cancelled’ for a disabled man who was left penniless after slipping through a benefits net.

The 57-year-old man from Gloucester was deemed fit to work – but was then refused jobseekers allowance because he is disabled.

For six weeks he was left with no income.

“Christmas in our house is cancelled,” said the man, who lives with his wife and disabled daughter in Tredworth.

For the past 12 years he has received incapacity benefit, as he suffers from a degenerative spinal condition.

He cannot sit in an ordinary chair, is in constant pain and has limited mobility.

Government benefit changes meant he was assessed for the new Employment and Support Allowance in October. But on October 29 his £124 a week payments were stopped because he was assessed as ‘fit to work’ and told to claim Jobseekers Allowance.

“But when I went to the Jobcentre, the man there looked at me and said ‘I can see you’re clearly not fit to work’ and wouldn’t allow me to claim,” he said. “What was I supposed to do?”

He’s been forced to rely on friends and family for seven weeks, visit Gloucester’s Food Bank, and he said: “Christmas is cancelled. It’s very stressful. It’s a terrible thing to be left with no money.”

Gloucester Law Centre came to the family’s aid, and have helped his wife to claim increased Carer’s Allowance, because the couple look after their disabled daughter. But other people in the same position may not have that option. The man still has no income of his own.

“I have disappeared from the statistics,” he said.

Barbara Moran at Gloucester Law Centre, said changes in October mean appeals will take longer. “This is an example of what we feared. To go without money for six or seven weeks causes serious hardship,” she said.

They fear that his case is just the first of a large number of people left with no income.

A spokesperson for the Department of Work and Pensions said: “It is important that we don’t simply write people off. There is strong evidence that working can be beneficial for many people who have a health condition.

“But we also want to ensure those who need it get the right support, which is why a decision on whether someone is well enough to work is taken after consideration of all the supporting medical evidence provided by the claimant.

“Anyone can appeal against a decision, before the appeal is heard we review all decisions, taking into account further information provided.”

www.gloucestercitizen.co.uk/Christmas-cancelled-Gloucester-disabled-family/story-20337786-detail/story.html
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Killing The Poor Thread 26 Dec 2013 14:03 #13

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Ministers scrap £20m scheme to keep elderly warm
Ministers 'shameful' for scrapping £20m scheme to keep pensioners warm


Ministers have been accused of “shameful” behaviour after quietly scrapping a scheme to help vulnerable elderly people keep warm - just weeks before its own review found it was universally popular.

For the past two winters, councils have been allocated £20 million to provide emergency boiler repairs, hot meals to frail pensioners leaving hospital, snow-clearing and advice about pay fuel bills.

In October a Government report acclaimed the scheme - which helps up to 200,000 people a year, mostly elderly - as a “universally popular” way to provide help to those in crisis.

But by then, funding for the scheme had already been stopped, a parliamentary answer has disclosed.

Public health experts said it was “appalling” that the Warm Homes, Healthy People fund had been axed, after the coldest winter for 50 years and amid fears that the NHS is struggling to cope.



Last month figures disclosed that the number of winter deaths rose by one third last year - with 31,000 excess deaths.

Prof John Ashton, president of the Faculty of Public Health, said: “It is shameful to be scrapping this scheme when we know this country has such a huge problem with winter deaths.”

He said the funds involved were “peanuts” but that it made no sense to pull money from a scheme which had demonstrated its success and popularity.

Prof Ashton said: “Given all the fears about an NHS winter crisis, and the recent figures on winter deaths, it seems crazy not to concentrate efforts on ensuring warm homes for the elderly. We know that in the week after every cold snap we see a surge in deaths, and that shouldn’t be inevitable.”

Age UK said the scheme had proved an “extremely necessary resource” which helped thousands of at risk pensioners last year.

Mervyn Kohler, special advisor to the charity, said: “This was a really good scheme that made a really practical difference to people - providing emergency food and survival packs, checking people were getting the help to which they were entitled.

“This was about providing help to people who are cold, frail and worried. It is really perverse to take it away when the evaluation made clear just how successful it was.”

The evaluation of the scheme, published in October by Public Health England, an executive agency of the Department of Health, said: “In line with findings from the previous evaluation, the Warm Homes, Healthy People scheme continues to be universally popular. Local authorities and their partners used innovative ways to try to reduce excess winter morbidity and mortality in line with the Cold Weather Plan for England.”

The report said the initiatives funded by it had helped social isolation and household budgets, as well as fulfilling its key aim to protect the vulnerable from the cold.

Under the scheme, pensioners in Bedfordshire were provided with emergency food parcels, while an emergency shopping service was set up in North Staffordshire for those who could not get out in bleak weather.

Ministers said local authorities should determine their own priorities, having been put in charge of an annual £2.7 billion public health budget since April, with funds that used to go to the NHS.

Directors of public health at councils said the money from the central budget did not stretch far enough, especially in rural areas, which receive less funding per head of population.

Prof Rod Thomson, director of public health at Shropshire council, said :“The loss of this funding is significant for us, particularly because we have such a limited budget; this is going to affect a lot of people and in rural areas there are a lot of people living in homes that are hard to heat. We have got people suffering fuel poverty who are clearly going to have a tougher winter - this grant would have made a big difference to them and to their health.”

He said the rural county receives £29 per head of population under the overall grant - while councils in Kensington and Chelsea and Westminster receive more than £130 per head.

Mike Leaf, director of health improvement for Lancashire County Council, said: “We felt this was a really important source of funding; it wasn’t something we were expecting them to pull.”

Previous evaluations said that up to 200,000 people received interventions under the scheme. Of those, 62 per cent were pensioners and 12 per cent were young children in deprived or fuel-poor homes, studies found.

Luciana Berger, Shadow Minister for Public Health, accused the Government of forcing people to choose between heating and eating.

She said: “It doesn’t make sense to be scrapping programmes to help keep people warm when there has already been a 40 per cent spike in the number of people suffering from hypothermia on David Cameron’s watch.”

A Government spokesman said: “We are working to help people keep warm this winter, at the same time as helping them keep their bills as low as possible. That’s why we have cold weather payments, winter fuel payments worth up to £300, an enlarged state pension and the Warm Homes Discount which is helping two million households, including well over 1 million of the poorest pensioners, by taking £135 off their bills. We are also helping people by legislating to force energy companies to put customers on the best deal.

“We have ring-fenced public health funding for local authorities in order that they can focus on the needs of their communities, including helping people whose health may be harmed by cold weather.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10530467/Ministers-scrap-20m-scheme-to-keep-elderly-warm.html
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Killing The Poor Thread 26 Dec 2013 15:00 #14

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It's hierarchical...You all supply power to the Government which is then given to Queen's agents who do not have a clue how to use the power they have been given.

A typical matrix agent has the power concentrated from millions of you all to use and abuse how they see fit.

If you stand up to an agent you have to realize that if you harm one...that will attract the police which if you harm them will attract the military and if you harm them you are dealing with NATO.

In the end the powers that be will be dropping nukes on cities trying to stop you from resisting.

"People of privilege (Absolute capitalists) will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage. (Power)"--John Kenneth Galbraith

I have taken on agents...In Canada...They all are servants of the crown...That is ultimately what civil servants are...Servants of the Government not you.

"The subjects of every state (Bottom) ought to contribute towards the support of the government (TOP), as nearly as possible in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state."--Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations 1776

"Governments of the absolute capitalistic hierarchical food powered make work enterprise are administration systems of the enterprise constructed and sustained by the bottom or employees at the demand of the top or owners of the absolute capitalistic hierarchical food powered make work enterprise"--Hypertiger

They are robots following a program to obtain a paycheck...If you challenge them...They will use all the power they have access to in order annihilate you.

The vast majority of the population are mental weaklings that have no clue how the system works and are push overs...You all can talk the talk...but when it comes time to walk the walk...you are crushed like ants.
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Killing The Poor Thread 26 Dec 2013 15:23 #15

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The welfare system was powered by the USA...The USA has been plundered into the ground the past 200+ years to supply the resources to Europe to sustain the welfare system you all exist within.

In 2008...the USA began collapsing visibly...because you all are nationalists and have zero clue how the global economic system works...threads like this appear.

You are sad about the plight of the poor unfortunates?

Then you take care of them...because how taxes work.

The top or rich taxes the bottom or slaves and then takes their cut and supplies the middle or servants who take their cut and what is left over is supplied to the bottom...The bottom is paid the minimum wages possible so the top can obtain the maximum wages possible to sustain the servants.

If the Government increases taxes on the Rich to help the poor...The rich just increase their demands upon the slaves until they are at maximum potential...So then the only place to make up the difference is by cutting the supply to the servants.

Or middle class which shrinks or is crushed while the lower class or poor expands.

The top or rich are also forced to make up the difference by increasing the cost of food and fuel and anything they can to obtain the yield of power required to supply the demand of all below them.

Everything the top has...comes from the bottom...the only way the bottom can get what they want from the top...is if the bottom supplies the top first...it's been like this for all recorded history...the bottom supplies everything to the top wholesale...and the top marks it up and sells it back to the bottom retail.

The difference between the wholesale price and the retail cost is the yield of power (tax) the top live off of.

The resources have run out...that is what happened in 2008...The USA has been looted dry...

There is the BBC in the UK the CBC in Canada and the ABC in Australia and Al Jazeera in the middle east which is a front for the BBC.

The British Brainwashing Corporation...the Canadian Brainwashing corporation and the Australian Brainwashing corporation.

Basically the titanic hit the iceberg an is sinking...and you all do not even know it yet.

You all do not have a clue how the system actually works...because the education system is run by the Government to brainwash you all.

A nightmare beyond your abilities to comprehend has been slowly unfolding since 2008.

The entire post WW2 Bretton woods global trade system has reached maximum potential and is collapsing.

There is not anything the Government can do other than what they are...I do not want to be mean...but posting all these articles and crying is not going to do anything...and neither is running around in the streets like ants on a kicked ant hill.

There is no such thing as a peaceful protest...anything that causes the economy to slow down...like a strike...causes the flow of power from the bottom to the top to be cut...and collapse the economy...cutting more people off...making things worse.
Last Edit: 26 Dec 2013 15:48 by HYPERTlGER.
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Killing The Poor Thread 26 Dec 2013 17:06 #16

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the british govt haven't killed anyone-YET, all these deaths above are people taking their own lives, its called suicide and its self inflicted. when I hear people dying of malnutrition or starvation in Britain then and only then will I agree with the thread title.
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Killing The Poor Thread 26 Dec 2013 18:20 #17

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hagrid wrote:
the british govt haven't killed anyone-YET, all these deaths above are people taking their own lives, its called suicide and its self inflicted. when I hear people dying of malnutrition or starvation in Britain then and only then will I agree with the thread title.

Hagrid, mate, in 2012 alone, 10,600 people died within 6 weeks of having their benefits stopped alone, we are not even including deaths to elderly from the Liverpool Care Pathway or Malnutrition, or not been able to heat their their houses.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/223050/incap_decd_recips_0712.pdf

Just because you cannot see it does not mean it is not going on. They control the media more or less, though in some areas they are loosing control with the likes of the UK Column and 21st Century Wire and others. Even sick sods like the Daily Mail are reporting it as they come to an understanding as to what is really going on.

They HAVE killed plenty of people, just because you do not acknowledge the methods does not make it any less true.
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Killing The Poor Thread 26 Dec 2013 18:52 #18

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hagrid wrote:
the british govt haven't killed anyone-YET, all these deaths above are people taking their own lives, its called suicide and its self inflicted. when I hear people dying of malnutrition or starvation in Britain then and only then will I agree with the thread title.

I disagree.

Driving people to a state of utter despair - people in many cases vulnerable to begin with - and taking action that forces them into a state of ill-health (which may ultimately be life-shortening) is having a direct impact. Unless you deny people can feel pushed into doing something by the actions of others.
What you're saying is that if a person with depression tops themselves because being left with no money was the final straw, the government bears no responsibility for introducing a deliberate policy of cutting as many people's claims as they can (with their sanctions targets they deny but everyone knows exist and ATOS working towards a pre-determined 'acceptable' number of claims rather than actual need).
It's a bit like saying an abuser bears no responsibility whatsoever if their victim goes on to kill themselves due to the trauma of the abuse because suicide is self-inflicted.

As you can see earlier in the thread, malnutrition is already seriously on the rise. People don't have to physically starve to death for this to cause life-shortening health problems. People are highly unlikely to physically die of starvation in this country, they're far more likely to suffer from a variety a cumulative health problems due to poor nutrition.
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Killing The Poor Thread 26 Dec 2013 19:00 #19

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Paul Tootall wrote:
hagrid wrote:
the british govt haven't killed anyone-YET, all these deaths above are people taking their own lives, its called suicide and its self inflicted. when I hear people dying of malnutrition or starvation in Britain then and only then will I agree with the thread title.

Hagrid, mate, in 2012 alone, 10,600 people died within 6 weeks of having their benefits stopped alone, we are not even including deaths to elderly from the Liverpool Care Pathway or Malnutrition, or not been able to heat their their houses.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/223050/incap_decd_recips_0712.pdf

Just because you cannot see it does not mean it is not going on. They control the media more or less, though in some areas they are loosing control with the likes of the UK Column and 21st Century Wire and others. Even sick sods like the Daily Mail are reporting it as they come to an understanding as to what is really going on.

They HAVE killed plenty of people, just because you do not acknowledge the methods does not make it any less true.


...Although people like Brian Gerrish's UK Column are extremely right wing and would likely be even worse when it comes to social welfare. Gerrish sees 'communists' everywhere and doesn't even understand what the Third Sector is or how it works.
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Killing The Poor Thread 27 Dec 2013 05:58 #20

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hagrid wrote:
the british govt haven't killed anyone-YET, all these deaths above are people taking their own lives, its called suicide and its self inflicted. when I hear people dying of malnutrition or starvation in Britain then and only then will I agree with the thread title.

G'day Hagrid.

Yes, you are correct in stating people are taking their own lives. Do you think that they have done so on a whim?

Or could it be that each has re-acted to having their benefits cut?

I receive the disability support pension, though at one point I was cut off because I couldn't get into see a doctor as they all had their books closed (so much for the hippocratic oath) and could not then supply a medical update to a condition that is diagnosed as incurable and degenerative. Four years without any payments whatsoever. Fortunately I had friends that helped me out.

The process to again receive disability payments took a further there and a half years to be finalised.

Considering the constant pain that my physical goes through, I can perfectly comprehend why someone would take their own life in the above described situations. It wouldn't be, and hasn't been, my choice to do commit suicide, though at times it would be a wonderful thing simply to escape the physical pain.

It's a numbers game. The government/insurance companies, etc, KNOW that a specific percentage of the population will give up when faced appearingly insurmountable odds. To then implement policies that create appearingly insurmountable odds is akin to pulling the trigger and killing the person, it is a death sentence to that specific percentage of the population.
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