TOPIC: Martin Wolf's article in the FT puts money system into the mainstream

The debate on money reform goes mainstream

WRITTEN BY POSITIVE MONEY ON APRIL 28, 2014.

 

Martin Wolf’s recent article in the Financial Times has sparked a major debate in the mainstream media. The article discusses the nature of money and credit in the modern monetary system in which he suggests: “strip private banks of their power to create money”. There has been a significant backlash from critiques and many misunderstandings. But it is fantastic that this issue is finally getting attention and is being debated.

We’ll respond individually to the criticisms and misunderstandings. Now, here’s an overview of the latest articles – by the economists Paul Krugman, Ann Pettiffor, Warren Mosler and FT Alphaville reporter Izabella Kaminska:



Paul Krugman, American economist, the Nobel Laureate in Economic Sciences, Professor of Economics and International Affairs at the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University, Centenary Professor at the London School of Economics, and an op-ed columnist for The New York Times.

Is A Banking Ban The Answer?

OK, a genuinely interesting debate on financial reform is taking place. I’m not even sure where I stand. But it’s certainly worth talking about.

Atif Mian and Amir Sufi draw our attention to proposals to either mandate or create strong incentives for 100-percent reserve banking, coming from Martin Wolf and, more surprisingly, John Cochrane. 

Wolf, unless I’m reading him wrong, seems to identify the whole issue with one particular form of short-term debt — bank deposits. This seems an oddly narrow view given the nature of the 2008 crisis, which involved very few runs on deposits but a massive run on shadow banking, especially repo — overnight lending that in a fundamental sense fulfilled the functions of deposit banking but also created the same kind of risks.



Ann Pettifor, Director of Policy Research in Macroeconomics (PRIME), Honorary Research Fellow at the Political Economy Research Centre at City University (CITYPERC) and a fellow of the New Economics Foundation, London.

Why I disagree with Martin Wolf and Positive Money

Because of the finance sector’s despotic power, about which I have been very vocal, many readers would expect me to support a proposal that prevents private banks from creating money, and to enthusiastically back the nationalization of money issuance. I do not however, and want to explain why.

 


Warren Mosler, American economist and theorist, president and founder of Mosler Automotive, and co-founder of the Center for Full Employment And Price Stability at the University of Missouri-Kansas City.

Comments on Martin Wolf’s banking article

Yes, a 100% capital requirement, for example, would effectively limit lending. But, given the rest of today’s institutional structure, that would also dramatically reduce aggregate demand -spending/sales/output/employment, etc.- which is already far too low to sustain anywhere near full employment levels of output.

Izabella Kaminska, financial reporter at FT Alphaville discusses the issues in the FT:



Martin Wolf on funny money creation 

With his latest column on the nature of money and credit in the modern monetary system, the FT’s Martin Wolf delves deeper into the murky depths of the “what is money” debate.

Anyone who has speculated about the significance and effects of quantitative easing in the last five years should probably have a read.

In the piece, Wolf comes out in favour of the endogenous theory of money supply and explains why it is that banks, through their power to issue private money directly, influence the economy in a very different way than is traditionally accepted.

www.positivemoney.org/2014/04/debate-money-reform-goes-mainstream/



 

This has been going on for 600 years now at least...every commercial bank I have studied going back to 1400 in Spain has been a fractionally reserved credit institution.

How it really works...because You all have zero clue...how credit systems actually work

“Be cautious in your words and carriage, that the most penetrating stranger shall not be able to discover or find out what is not proper intimated; and sometimes you shall divert a discourse, and manage it prudently for the honor of the worshipful (banking) fraternity.”

"The word mortgage is a French Law term meaning "death pledge", meaning that the pledge ends (dies) when either the obligation is fulfilled or the property is taken through foreclosure"

A mortgage is an asset attached to property...lets say property of valued at $100,000

an lets say the current long term interest or attached exponential growth rate is 6.448%...

You get a property priced at $100,000 attached to a mortgage of 100,000 Dollars at 6.448% for 25 years...the monthly payment is $666

that is the asset....that is balanced against the created out of thin air credit of $100,000 or inflation of the money supply which is the liability.

the $666 monthly payment has two components...The principal and interest.

the amortization equation splits the $666 into...

The principal...$136...this is the portion of created out of thin air credit that that when added to the liability returns back into thin air and cause the credit supply to be reduced by that amount to $99,864...This is the hyperdeflationary or exponential decay portion

The interest...$530 which is the profit to the bank....This is the hyperinflationary of exponential growth portion.

at the end of 25 years...the borrower has a property and owes zero since the created out of thin air liability of $100,000 that inflated the circulating credit supply which is debt used as money returns back into thin air where it came from....and the bank or lender obtains a profit of $100,000

basically the borrower...is lent credit which is debt used as money from 25 years in the future...to spend in the past which is the present...and they spend the next 25 years or less paying it all back until the $100,000 that is borrowed from the future exists in the future.

current incomes in the system are composed of previously created credit...and future income is composed of newly created credit.

A borrower...uses their current income which is composed of previously created credit as backing for their request for a commercial bank to create new credit...

This system is what allows slaves...which never used to be paid since there was no money to pay them...to have money.

If this ancient system were to be stopped...then kiss modern civilization good bye...since it would be impossible to sustain the lending spending cycle that currently supplies your demands for money...it is what has financed global history for centuries...especially the past 200 years when slavery was banned in the British empire.

credit is a derivative of money...or credit systems are a derivative of monetary systems.

The key problem currently is that gold and silver based monetary systems were fractionally reserved to zero by 1971...and since then it has been a debt backed by debt system...that has fractionally reserved everything else and we are approaching the point where the supply of the other more important commodities like food and fuel supplies are running out faster than the demand for them is increasing.

that is what happened in 2008...the USA reached it's maximum potential under the city of London based Bretton woods global trade system to supply the global demand for inflation.

since under Bretton woods...The USA was made the fractional reserve of reality or the supply of inflation...and the rest of the world the created out of thin air fantasy that demands inflation.

the global system has been collapsing since 2008...that is the reason all the central banks are engaged in quantative easing.

since the demand for inflation by the population has become greater than the supply...

There is no real debate...you all still have no clue that you all are dead...because the global credit system along with the roaring 6 decade boom following the implementation of the 1944 Bretton woods system...is going to implode...and basically kill you all.

like I posted previously...you have looked behind the lies promoted as Truth and found the lies behind the lies left there for you to find...and you stopped...and have been stuck there for years or decades...you have not found Truth or what is really going on or how the system actually works...

basically you are a trained chimp chasing after monkey chow like all the rest of the millions and billions in the global absolute capitalist hierarchical food powered make work enterprise...

People that think they are free are more productive that people that know they are slaves.

You have this spring and summer to prepare for the fall into next winter since you all have become so detached for reality due to being transformed into electronic digital computerized game players you have lost track of the seasons...

In the UK and all first world economics zones currently...20% of the employed workforce are the net producers...the fractional reserve of reality...the power plants...or supply of yield

the other 80% of the employed workforce are the net consumers...the created out of thin air fantasy...the light bulbs...or demand for yield

for the past 33 years the yield from reality as been imploded down to absolute 0 to supply the demand or power the explosion up to the absolute 1 or maximum potential of the positive fantasy.

when the absolute zero point is reached...an it becomes impossible to extract any more yield from the net producing slaves to supply the demand of the net consuming masters and servants.

the fantasy inflationary bubble world you believe is reality...will be popped by the deflationary needle of reality.

of course you all are totally oblivious of this...because you all are just think/embrace positive (fantasy) ignore/reject negative (reality) drones.

Basically rabbits caught in the head lights...dazzled and oblivious of the dark matter getting closer and closer.

or like bugs flying into a zapper.

Huh??

The points Wolf makes and have sparked debate involve removing the ability of banks to create money "out of thin air".

A person goes to a bank to borrow $10,000 to go on holiday say (no asset backing). The borrower has shown sufficient ability to repay so is granted the loan.

The bank does not redefine $10,000 sitting in depositors funds as a loan. No, it creates an Asset "Receivable from Mr X". It earns revenues with interest payments.

The bank sets aside some capital to "risk weight" for a loan default. But the bank has effectively created money out of thin air.

When things go bad, such as with the GFC, the risk of the system iz shifted to the taxpayer, as so obviously occurred in the US and UK.

Wolf is arguing to remove the ability of banks to control an inherently risky system yet have the taxpayer bail it out when it goes wrong.

all of you tax all an everything to sustain existence...There is no debate...the vast majority of the population are net consumers of yield.

the slaves/lower class or net producers are the supply of power/yield...or power plants

the masters/upper class and their servants/middle class are the net consumers of power/yield...light bulbs.

and since 2008...the demand by the net consumers of power has become greater then the net producers of power.

unfortunately like I said...and posted...you all have only found the lies in behind the lies promote as Truth...you and wolf and the rest of the slaves of the master system have no clue...a cataclysm beyond your puny peasant minds is unfolding now and has is progressing to the lifting of the veil.

You all are going to die in a fit of exquisite agony.

of course because you are a mind controlled just think positive drone...It is incompatible with program you are following...

the powers that be own the game you all were born into and it is designed so they win by default...

The people that know have be preparing for the end from the start back in 1944...you all that are ignorant...just keep taking more power than you give to sustain your continued existence until there is nothing left,...then you collapse.

The owners know this...and capitalize upon this.

The debate is between net consumers of yield and net consumers of yield...you all do not have a clue how an actual monetary system works like it did prior to 600 years ago or how credit systems which are a derivative of the monetary system worked.

It's like having a debt on the titanic about whether replacing the captain of the sinking ship will save it from sinking.

You all hare totally in the dark...you will not realize you are doomed until the ship sinks and you all are in the deflationary water/cold/negative/death that sucks all the inflation/heat/positive/life out of you all.

what if everything you were taught was a lie...what if everything you believe is Truth is a lie?

the invisible order of the basic system of reality operating in the background powers the visible chaos of the graphical user interface or fantasy you believe is Truth.

I have been on the Internet for since before it was even know as the Internet...I helped build it...when I was younger and was still ignorant of Truth.

I know more about the master system you all are slaves of than billions and billions of slaves born into it.

leading into the 1971 implementation of the new economy...you all have been transformed or socially engineered into electronic digital computerized game players...so that computers could more easily be used to manipulate you all without your knowledge.

The Internet itself stared as a DARPA project with support from MI6.

You all are entangled like flies in the world wide web of lies ruled by the horror of babble on.

I do not require billions of dollars to do what The NSA/USA and The Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ)/UK does.

I know how this tool works...and have used it to study you all...you are not going to use the tool I helped create against me.

The instant you connected to the Internet...whenever in your life you did...It was checkmate.

You are basically programed to fight to the death to remain asleep (ignorant of Truth) to continue to enjoy the daydream (cherished delusion) you are awake (knowledgeable of Truth)

The debate is just noise or the visible chaos of the slave minds...that hides the invisible order or signal of the master minds operating background.

I decode the code the of the lies you believe are and promote as Truth...to find Truth.

since I know how the master system actually works...you all just believe you do.

Wakeupbomb at SZ says Martin is a Bilderburgerer. Yap his name is at the end of the list in the link.
www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/06/05-3

My understanding is that in the case of an individual it is them that ultimately creates the money, by pledging their future sweat equity as a promise to pay back the loan. The bank then facilitates the loan by documenting the transaction and managing the account. The borrower pays interest on their own money, while the bank receive fees and the interest for something that they have not created. Obviously the bank should receive payment for the management, but interest on your blood sweat and heartache? When the borrower makes a payment back against the load the bank should destroy the money as it's done it's job at that stage - but no they return it to the system. I wont even get into the whole fractional reserve shenanigans that accompany the whole process. All the loans are based on fraud because the client does not receive full disclosure with respect to the actual workings of the loan.

What needs to happen and wont is a total exposure on the nature of money and how it is actually created and managed.

With respect to the national need for money it should be created by the people (their government) at zero interest as it's actually a pledge of the nations future sweat equity. Both the UK and the USA have experienced such a system in the form of the Bradbury Pound, Green Backs and JFK Dollars. Guernsey can also be cited as a country that created their own money managed by the people (government).

The emergence of cryptocurrencies seems to be the way to go for a number of reasons not least the fact that the audit trail is available to anyone who has access to the block chain. Now imagine if we demanded that all government transactions were done using a cryptocurrency? We would see exactly where the inputs originated and who received payments from government departments, if the block chain were public which it would be. When you pay a tax via your wallet you could see exactly how your money was used as it passes through the chain.

We could switch the government to crypto very quickly if it were made accessible and we could buy the crypto coins and destroy the cash received. There could also be thresholds set where no individual or company could purchase beyond a designated figure. Maybe a max of 2 million per individual. Companies could be governed by allowing them to purchase crypto coins to a set percentage of their real net asset value. Determining the max threshold of the currency would take some working out, but once that cap was set there could be no further creation of that particular coin, which would fix it's value, in much the same way as gold acts as a reserve to maintain value in a gold backed economy. The difference is that no more coins can ever be created once the limit is set. Controlling Crypto coins would be much more difficult than controlling the gold market. Another spin off would be that individuals that have hoarded billions of pounds/dollars would only be able to buy in at the max value set per person. Obviously they would be able to buy more than most and they could try to distribute money among friends and family. But long term it would be an amazing leveller and return us to something approaching a level playing field.

That's not a particularly well thought through explanation it's just a basic idea of what could be done if we adopted such a concept.

Oh and another spin off is that is there is no need for banks because we are all our own banker. There are other ways that the cryptocurrencies/block chains can be used for different functions such as mortgagees, trusts, wills and contracts.

Stopping the banks from creating money would be a start, but we really need to make much more substantial and effective changes to the whole process of money beyond just the banks. First of all people need to be educated about what money really is and how the games of State and Banks have been used to commit fraud on an unimaginable scale.

In One Month, Everyone In Iceland Will Own Cryptocurrency
Could Ireland be the next country to adopt cryptcurrency or maybe Greece or Spain? Can we kill the Euro and all the other de-funked funny money? We don't even need to wait for the Governments to act on this issue we can already make use of these cryptocurrencies today! This is the future and the ultimate revolutionary tool to use against financial control by States and Banks.

Here's somewhere to start if you're new to the concept of Cryptocurrency Satoshi Nakamoto who is credited as being the anonymous creator of Bitcoin. Here is a link to the original white paper that explains the concept of Bitcoin: A Peee-2-Peer Electronic Cash System.

Daria wrote:
Distraction from a solution perhaps?

At the core of the banking algorithm is the compounding interest/exponential growth equation.

an equation

B = A

B is A

deflation is inflation

ignorance is bliss

Ce^rt = F

C = current value/negative
e = Euler's number...the logarithmic constant or irrational number
r = the yield or exponential growth rate
t = the time

The above is the ignorance or deflation side of the equation and below is the bliss or inflation side.

F = future value/positive

Ignorance/negative/deflation = bliss/positive/inflation

The continuously taking more power than you give equation.

The absolute capitalist equation

The same as chopping down trees faster than they regrow or deflation to power inflation

It works great...until the trees begin to run out...then the yield from the equation begins dropping until it hits zero...when the trees run out.

There is no solution at all because you all are monkey brains...that worship ignorance as bliss.

You all employ absolute self indulgent reason...you take more power than you give from all and everything to solve the problem of continued existence or inflation.

You just think/embrace positive (fantasy) ignore/reject negative (reality)

You worship ignorance as bliss.

When you take more power than you give...or cause deflation to power inflation...or chop down trees faster than they regrow or cause death/deflation to sustain life/inflation

You have two options.

Choose to stop chopping down trees before the trees run out...at which point you stop inflating or living and begin deflating or dying.

Or to avoid that negative fate

Choose continue chopping down trees until they run out and you are forced to stop inflating of living and begin deflating or dying.

Positive beginning or inflation/explosion to maximum potential or absolute 1 (Life) followed by negative end or deflation/implosion to maximum potential or absolute 0 (death)

Or exponential growth/hyperinflation to absolute 1 (White Sun/Hot life) followed by exponential decay/hyperdeflation to absolute 0 (black hole/cold death)

the final solution to compounding interest/exponential growth equation...is always collapse when the logical conclusion is reached...ALWAYS.

Taking more power than you give from all an everything to sustain existence is the path of least resistance to the logical conclusion or negative capitalism.

Also known as the direct current principle...the mindless or ignorant path...the default path that all and everything in the Universe including the Universe follows to sustain continued existence.

The alternating current principle is the path of most resistance.

Sharing power as equally as possible with all an everything to sustain existence...the knowledgeable path.

The same as chopping down trees as fast as or slower than they regrow to sustain inflation or life.

Absolute or negative capitalism or taking more power than you give from all and everything to sustain inflation or life/peace has a logical conclusion that ends in deflation or death/war...Antisocialism....eternal death...Lie...0

Responsible or positive capitalism or sharing power as equally as possible with all and everything to sustain inflation or life/peace has no logical conclusion...socialism...or eternal life...Truth...1

The above of course is not taught in any school on Earth that I know of...and there is no record in all recorded history...which a lie believed to be Truth.

Probability that a lie can defeat Truth = 0% or negative...absolutely NO...0...nothing...Defeat...Hate

Probability that Truth can defeat a lie = 100% or positive...absolutely YES...1...something...Victory...Love

Take a byte of the forbidden fruit of logic and gain awareness of 1 and 0.

Since I know Truth...I do not speculate.

I can see the invisible order or signal of Truth hidden behind the visible chaos or noise of the lies believed to be truth.

The instant you became aware of the Universe...there was light...as in let there be light...followed by the sound or the big bang.

I'm here because this is the truth zone...a one way ticket to reality.

Not the lie zone...a one way ticket to fantasy.

(Fraud + Deception + Debt * people) / banks / government * greedy crooks = Truth

All the people around you are deceiving you and you are deceiving them...they and you are ignorant that you are doing this.

I'm not.

Doing what telling it like it is and highlighting a solution? Cryprocurrency is the silver bullet and at no time in history have we had such an advantage, so we best be making good use of it! IMHO.

The banks do not create money...you all do.

You utilize absolute self indulgent reason to solve the problem of existence.

You take more power than you give from all and everything to sustain existence.

the commercial banking system as you see it in operation today...is over 600 years old...and you still can not figure it out.

over the past 50 years...you all have been tranceformed into electronic digital computerized game players inside of an electronic digital computerized virtual world.

The vast majority of the circulating money supply is composed of credit created out of thin air that is debt you use as money...in the form of bits of information on hard disk platters.

Only about 3% of the money supply is composed of banknotes and coins...the other 97% of the global circulating debt supply of around 200 Trillion dollars is bits of information...bit coins...

Electromagnetic polarity differentials on hard disk platters...

You take oil which is analog and modulate it into digital bits of information...and when you want money...you demodulate bits of information into coins or banknotes.

I do not require an education about bit coins.

now at the core of this system is the continuous compounding interest/exponential growth equation...every second of existence demands exponetailly more power than the previous second to sustain the fantasy you are floating around in right now that you believe is reality.

and it's all timed with atomic clocks...and they are basically ticking down to absolute 0...and when reached...the constantly exploding fantasy or daydream...will begin constantly imploding into the nightmare of reality.

You all have no clue...how the master system you were born into and enslaved by actually works.

and if you think running around in the streets like ants on a kicked ant hill...is a sign of your superior intelligence...Then you are ignorant of Truth.

the solution to the take more power than you give equation...is collapse.

I'm sorry...but deflation implosion is what follows inflation explosion.

The belief that there is a positive end...is evidence you are a socially engineered absolute capitalist drone operating within the absolute capitalist hierarchical food powered make work enterprise.

That is what all you slave minds are programed by the master minds to do...constantly search for a solution to a problem that can not be solved until the day you die.

the just think/embrace positive (fantasy) ignore/reject negative (reality)

that is what the devout worshipers of the lie believed to be Truth always tell me...there is nothing impossible if you put you mind to it...and if at first you do not succeed...try try again.

You all will continue until you choose to stop...which is negative...or are forced to stop...when you die.

You will commit suicide fighting to the death to remain asleep (ignorant of Truth) to continue to enjoy the daydream (cherished delusion) you are awake (knowledgeable of Truth)

You all are already dead...you just do not know it.

Daria wrote: Martin Wolf is indeed on that list.

I'm taking it at face value. I will look into it.

I don't like the website that posted it though. "Progressive" and shilling the works of a marxist terrorist cum MSM rebranded "saint", Mandeba. I don't think so.

you just do not get it...you all are terrorists...you all are the parasites...your demands for power form the master system have become greater than you supply.

money is not power...It is a lie believed to be truth...that requires truth or power to sustain it's existence.

Lies (fantasies) take more power than they give to sustain their existence as Truth (realities).

when the demand for power becomes greater than the supply...game over of the game you all are playing nanosecond to nanosecond every nanosecond of your existence.

It's is obvious you all can not comprehend you all are dead people.

the absolute capitalist hierarchical food powered make work enterprise or city state...civilization as you all call it.

is a lie that you all worship as Truth...since you all are ignorant of Truth.

you all hate Truth (reality)...and run in terror from Truth (reality) into the loving embrace of lies (fantasies) believed to be Truth (reality) for safety.

unfortunately the sword of lies is annihilated by the shield of Truth and the sword of Truth cuts through the shield of lies like a hot knife through butter.

all that you believe is Truth...you did not create...you do not own the beliefs or lies you have embraced as truth and rebroadcast...

the power than be own all the lies you believe are Truth that you all slave till the day you die renting from the powers that be that own all the lies you believe are Truth.

and the cost to pay the rent is hidden in the prices of everything.

You all know basically slightly more than nothing but slight less than something.

the one problem that rules them all is fixed by the one solution that solves them all.

Truth is the supply to the demand by lies that want to become truth and never die.

singularity is the supply to the demand by duality that wants to become a singularity and never die.

a quantum bit...can be YES and NO at the same time...or maybe.

maybe eventually becomes as certainty.

that is the certainty of the uncertainty principle.

You all think you have a clue?

you do not have the slightest clue...

You are suicide bombers...marching to doom with glee...and you have been doing this your whole life...following the path of least effort to the logical conclusion of the reasonable assumption.

the logical conclusion or defeat of the reasonable assumption of victory you are following thinking the reasonable assumption...or lie you believe is Truth is Truth.

you all are ignorant of Truth...useful idiots.

until the logical conclusion of the reasonable assumption is reached...and then you turn into useless idiots...and then skeletons.

You do not know how the master system works.

you have no idea that you are slaves to a lie you believe is Truth.

it is why I always win.

and you always lose

I do not even have to give you losers that believe you are winners the time of day.

the powers that be are invisible...they have more to fear from an infected paper cut than any of you.

in the end at the logical conclusion...you all annihilate each other trying to reacquire what you never had to begin with or what you never will.

freedom from the tyranny of Truth.

you have spend so many years self deluding yourself and each other...you are hard wired...

you will basically commit suicide fighting to the death to remain asleep (ignorant of Truth) to continue to enjoy the daydream (cherished delusion) you are awake (knowledgeable of truth)

you are slaves to your emotions...which are lies you believe are truth...

they are masters that take more power than they give from you to sustain their existence as Truth.

since they are your emotions...you can turn them into your slaves and you the master...and then they give you more power than they take.

Since you are slaves to your emotions...they are the strings the puppet master minds pull to manipulate all the slave minds without their knowledge.

you leaders are just sweet tasting lies you believe are truth that you lick up...like dogs and cats are fooled by the sweet tasting lie they believe is Truth...antifreeze.

in the beginning the lies they believe are Truth taste sweet...or positive...until the sour after taste shows up and the lie they believed was truth is revealed to be a lie...at the logical conclusion of the reasonable assumption.

there is a mountain of skeletons proving me right...and you all wrong...

I'm not adding the skeletons to the pile...the losers that believe they are winners add themselves to the pile of their own free will.

you are just game players...you are not here searching for Truth...you are here seeking support for or to promote your cherished delusions.

with cherished delusions being the lies you believe are truth that you have fallen in love with.

and you will fight to the death to protect what you cherish from harm.

the internet and everything is going bye bye...

because the people that slave day in and day out to sustain your ignorant asses...have a maximum potential to hold you up...and when they can no longer sustain your existence...they drop you all to your screaming doom.

that is reality.

I hope you feel better now ....

see you do not care in the slightest...you just think you care or pretend to care.

a liar...in the end you only care about yourself and you do not care how much damage you cause to obtain what you want.

a game player...marching to doom with glee...like a bug into a zapper.

"Paul Krugman, American economist, the Nobel Laureate in Economic Sciences, Professor of Economics and International Affairs at the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University, Centenary Professor at the London School of Economics, and an op-ed columnist for The New York Times."

" Is A Banking Ban The Answer?

OK, a genuinely interesting debate on financial reform is taking place. I’m not even sure where I stand."

because like you...he does not know is ass from a hole in the ground.

I know where I stand...with the knowledgeable of Truth...not the ignorant of Truth.

I know where I stand, its where the rest of us here stand... on the receiving end of your condescension.