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TOPIC: Greek Crisis

Greek Crisis 02 Jul 2015 14:51 #61

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When will Jewish usurists just phuck off and leave us all alone?
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) attacked the International Monetary Fund and European authorities on Wednesday for imposing what he called excessive austerity measures on Greece in negotiations over the country’s debt payments.

“It is unacceptable that the International Monetary Fund and European policymakers have refused to work with the Greek government on a sensible plan to improve its economy and pay back its debt,” Sanders said in an exclusive statement to The Huffington Post. “At a time of grotesque wealth inequality, the pensions of the people in Greece should not be cut even further to pay back some of the largest banks and wealthiest financiers in the world.”

Sanders, a 2016 Democratic presidential candidate and veteran progressive lawmaker, called the loans-for-austerity policies that the IMF and eurozone nations have imposed on Greece an “abysmal failure,” and demanded that the United States and other world powers grant Greece new debt-repayment terms that would allow its economy to recover from the damage it has sustained since 2008.

“Instead of trying to force the Greek government and its people into even more economic pain and suffering, international leaders throughout the world, including the United States, should enable Greece to enact pro-growth policies that improve the lives of all of its people, not just the wealthy few,” Sanders said.

Sanders appeared to single out the IMF, the creditor over which the United States has the most direct influence. The U.S. controls more votes in IMF decisions than any other nation.

“If Greece’s economy is going to succeed, these austerity policies must end,” Sanders said. “The IMF must give the Greek government the flexibility and time that it needs to grow its economy in a fair way.”

Sanders has for months been urging the United States to use its influence to secure better terms for Greece. In February, when negotiations between Greece and its so-called troika of creditors — the IMF, the European Central Bank and the European Commission, representing the eurozone nations — had reached a standstill, Sanders asked the Federal Reserve to leverage its financial support for the ECB during the 2008 crisis to get the central bank to ease up on Greece. At the time, Sanders accusedGreece’s creditors of stiffing Greece’s Syriza-led government in an attempt to bring a friendlier government to power. Syriza, a left-populist party, won national elections in January on the promise that it would secure relief from austerity in negotiations with Greece’s creditors.

Sanders’ latest appeal comes at an even more urgent time for Greece, with the country’s membership in the eurozone in greater danger than ever before. On Tuesday, Greece missed a deadline to repay 1.6 billion euros’ worth of debt to the IMF. The IMF has said it now considers Greece in arrears, though it will consider the country’s request for an extension. Also on Tuesday, the bailout package from Greece’s creditors expired. At the last minute, the Greek government had asked for a new two-year loan from eurozone nations to make the IMF payment, but the other nations refused the request.

Without new rescue loans, Greece will be unable to make upcoming payments to its creditors or even keep its government running. The country’s creditors have indicated that Greece could still regain access to needed rescue loans. But on Wednesday, eurozone finance ministers made clear that they will only resume negotiations after Greece holds a July 5 referendum vote on the creditors’ latest bailout proposal.

Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras announced the referendum vote on Saturday after rejecting the creditors’ latest offer. Now he is asking Greek citizens to vote “no” on the referendum, arguing that this will strengthen his hand at the negotiating table. Other European leaders have insisted, however, that a “no” vote will simply amount to a rejection of Greece’s membership in the eurozone, and will close the door on future lending. In the meantime, the ECB has halted its emergency liquidity injections to Greek banks, prompting Greece to institute capital controls that limit bank withdrawals to 60 euros a day.

Sanders is both the first member of Congress and the first presidential candidate to publicly weigh in on the most recent round of negotiations between Greece and its creditors. (The campaigns of Hillary Clinton, Lincoln Chafee and Martin O’Malley, the other three declared Democratic presidential candidates, did not immediately respond to requests for comment.) His statement will likely be hailed as a positive step by the progressive U.S. activists who have been calling on members of Congress to pressure the IMF to offer Greece better terms. As of Wednesday evening, a MoveOn petition initiated by Robert Naiman of the group Just Foreign Policy, asking Congress to “oppose [the] IMF assault on Greek democracy,” had more than 8,000 signatures. The Working Families Party has launched a similar petition campaign.

And the substance of Sanders’ criticism is shared by a broad array of economists who argue that the rapid fiscal tightening imposed on Greece has pushed it into an economic depression and trapped it in an endless cycle of debt. As a condition of two bailouts in the past five years totaling 240 billion euros, Greece’s international creditors have demanded massive spending cuts, tax increases and other reforms. (As of January, only 11 percent of those bailout funds has been used to finance government operations, according to an analysis by the news site MacroPolis. The rest of the funds have gone toward paying or servicing Greece’s debts.)

While the austerity regime has allowed Greece to meet short-term obligations to its creditors, it has devastated the country’s economy. Greece’s GDP has shrunk by over 25 percent since 2008. Over a quarter of the population is now unemployed, and one-third of Greek citizens are living in poverty. The country’s public debt stands at 177 percent the size of its economy — a level that is widely believed to be unsustainable.

It’s not clear what impact, if any, Sanders’ statement will have on the Greek crisis, since the United States — notwithstanding its controlling votes at the IMF — has remained largely on the sidelines during the current impasse. Treasury Secretary Jack Lew has been in close consultation with his eurozone and Greek counterparts throughout negotiations, but he’s refrained from specific prescriptions, instead making broad appeals for both sides to compromise. Peter Doyle, a former senior manager at the IMF, criticized the approach in an interview with HuffPost on Wednesday, arguing that the Obama administration should have vetoed a redlined document the creditors presented to Greece on June 26 that was viewed as especially humiliating.

As recently as February, President Barack Obama was arguing that excessive austerity policies can prevent struggling countries from recovering economically.

“You cannot keep on squeezing countries that are in the midst of depression,” the president said then, a remark that was widely interpreted as an admonishment to Germany. “At some point, there has to be a growth strategy in order for them to pay off their debts to eliminate some of their deficits.”

At a Tuesday press conference, Obama made no such appeals. Instead, he used the occasion to downplay the impact of the Greek crisis on the U.S. economy, calling the threat of a Greek default and eurozone departure an “issue of substantial concern,” but one that is “primarily of concern to Europe.”

Sanders, for his part, argues that the United States has an interest in helping Greece attain economic relief in order to safeguard the country’s democracy. He cites the rise of Nazism in Germany after World War I as an example of how austerity-stricken economies are susceptible to authoritarian takeovers.

“Let us not forget, after World War I, the Allies imposed oppressive austerity on Germany as part of the Versailles Treaty,” Sanders said in the statement to HuffPost. “As a result, unemployment skyrocketed, the people suffered, and the policies of austerity gave rise to the Nazi Party. We cannot let a situation like that ever happen again.”
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Greek Crisis 02 Jul 2015 16:08 #62

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Greece should walk away -cite the fraudulent 'book-keeping' that was used to get Greece into the EU -
Golden Dawn may have been Greece's best hope but they were neutralized .
The EU will implode ( by design ) eventually - and with the hoards of immigrants there now and coming - the mayhem will get worse .

When will Jewish usurists just phuck off and leave us all alone? - indeed orange the Greeks' know it ....I suppose when they're is nothing left but insane chaos , depravity and disease and they 'own' it all .......and relish what they've done.............unless the people truly revolt - I just don;t know. . :dunno: The Sanders' type appeal will fall on deaf ears and hollow hearts, psychopathic minds.
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Greek Crisis 04 Jul 2015 14:54 #63

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What It All Comes Down To On Sunday

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 07/03/2015 22:55 -0400

As expected (and as tipped here on Thursday immediately after news broke that an IMF study conducted prior to the imposition of capital controls in Greece suggests debt relief for Athens is necessary if anyone hopes to create some semblance of sustainability), Greek PM Alexis Tsipras is now leaning hard on voters to carefully consider the fact that one-third of the troika has effectively validated the Greek government’s position on creditor writedowns. 

“This position was never proposed to the Greek government over the five months of negotiations, wasn’t included in final offer tabled by creditor institutions, on which people are going to vote on July 5,” Tsipras said in a televised address, making it clear to Greeks that the proposals they are voting on effectively do not reflect the views of the institution that is perhaps the country’s most influential creditor. 

“This IMF report justifies our choice not to accept an agreement which ignores the fundamental issue of debt,” he added, driving the point home. 

Clearly, this puts Europe, and especially Germany, in a rather unpalatable position. Many EU officials have for months insisted that IMF participation is critical if the Greeks hope to secure a third bailout. The IMF meanwhile, has stuck to a position first adopted years ago (something we’ve noted in these pages multiple times of late); namely that official sector writedowns will ultimately be necessary if Brussels hopes to finally put the Greek tragicomedy to bed. This means Brussels (and Berlin) will now be forced to choose between IMF involvement (which the EU says is a precondition for a deal) and haircuts (which the EU says aren’t possible).

Here’s Barclays - a major investment bank - with its own confirmation that the IMF may have assured a No vote over the weekend.

The document basically argues that OSI is a necessary condition in order to secure sovereign solvency with a high probability. This means that before the IMF re-engages in any lending activities with Greece, OSI will be required in the form of NPV debt relief.

The timing of the publication of this report it is very important. Debt relief is something that the Greek authorities have repeatedly demanded; therefore, in a way this report can be interpreted as the IMF backing the Greek government's demands. By extension, it could also be interpreted as supportive of a 'No' vote, which is what the Greek government is campaigning for. 

We agree broadly with the analytical content of the report and the need for further OSI. This is in fact hardly new news. Europe has recognized since November 2012 that Greece needs further OSI to make debt dynamics sustainable with high probability. The IMF advice of an NPV haircut via a debt maturity extension (to 40 years) is in line with expectations.

However, the critical point is that the IMF now requires debt-relief before it engages in a new programme, which confronts Europeans with a tough political decision. Many in Europe, including Germany, considered OSI as a future carrot in exchange for reforms today following good programme execution. Debt relief was conceived as a part of a third programme to be negotiated possibly with a new Greek government.

At the same time, Germany has been adamant about the importance of IMF involvement in any financial support programme for Greece. Thus, Germany will now be confronted with a tough choice: to deliver on the IMF's demand, ie to engage in OSI negotiations in the form of NPV debt relief, or give up on IMF involvement. We believe that there is mounting support across other member states for the OSI discussion, therefore, we believe that Germany may not be able to resist such discussions any longer.

"I am guessing that this is a negotiating tactic ahead of the negotiations for a new programme for Greece. The IMF very well knows that a debt write-off is out of the question," one unnamed EU official told MNI. 

“The numbers are quite high, not in line with our assessment and our baseline scenario. We are examining different scenarios for the day after the referendum and provided the vote is Yes, we are ready to come up with solutions. But it is not going to be easy to agree. Certainly this report does not make it any easier," another source said.

It's easy to see why Europe is reluctant to accept the IMF's assessment. As discussed at length on Thursday, were Europe to go down the OMI road, Brussels would be opening Pandora's Box. Here's why:

By now it should be clear to all that the only reason why Germany has been so steadfast in its negotiating stance with Greece is because it knows very well that if it concedes to a public debt reduction (as opposed to haircut on debt held mostly by private entities such as hedge funds which already happened in 2012), then the rest of the PIIGS will come pouring in: first Italy, then Spain, then Portugal, then Ireland.

 The problem is that while it took Europe some 5 years to transfer a little over €200 billion in Greek private debt exposure to the public balance sheet (by way of the ECB, EFSF, ESM and countless other ad hoc acronyms) at a cost of countless summits and endless negotiations, which may or may not result with the first casualty of the common currency which may prove to be reversible as soon as next week,nobody in Europe harbors any doubt that the same exercise can be repeated with Italy, or Spain, or even Portugal. They are just too big (and their nonperforming loans are in the hundreds of billions).



 As for the IMF's position, Barclays notes that a permanent default by Greece would not be a trivial event, thus providing further incentive for the Fund to push for EU writedowns:

With the IMF’s total resources being roughly USD760bn – USD420bn of which are considered the ‘forward commitment capacity’ – the IMF has the firepower to ‘survive’ a permanent default of Greece while maintaining sufficient resources to be able to lend out fresh credit for countries in need. However, it would make a significant dent in the ongoing IMF finances – eg, the interest paid on IMF loans is used to cover IMF’s operational cost – and would very likely create intense debate about Europe’s relationship with the IMF and the balance of power between DM and EM members. One question could also be whether or not the euro area IMF members should not in some way be liable for the outstanding Greek debts. In turn, this would also intensify a debate about the sharing of liabilities/solidarity within the euro area and the EU.


So, thanks to a well-timed IMF report, Tsipras can now frame Sunday's plebiscite as a simple Yes/No vote on Greece's debt pile, which makes it far easier to vote "no." 

"Do you think Europe should forgive your debt, check box 'Yes' or 'No'." 

That should be an easy choice, although it depends upon the Greek public understanding the significance of the IMF's position which, as indicated above, Tsipras is doing his very best to facilitate. The bottom line: Sunday's vote is about whether Greece will agree to remain a debt colony of Germany, pardon Europe, even as the IMF (and,paradoxically, Germany) agrees with Athens that the country's debt is unsustainable.

"No" means a lot of pain now and recovery later.

"Yes" means less pain now but no hope of recovery ever. 
www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-03/what-it-all-comes-down-sunday
Last Edit: 04 Jul 2015 14:57 by Orangeaid.
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Greek Crisis 04 Jul 2015 17:38 #64

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We'll see - even whether the vote is legit or not -
the IMF / Germany ect- want Tsipras out of the picture - no bailout with him still there. .
I hope the Greeks get out - is Russia is waiting in the wings and what would that mean in the short and long term ?
my disgust and hatred of these parasite banksters and sayanin helpers is beyond words these days ,no matter where I look.
........
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Greek Crisis -- IMF International Monopolization Facilitator. or Israel's Monopolization Financing. 04 Jul 2015 18:06 #65

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IMF
_________________________________________________
International Monopolization Facilitator.
or

Israel's Manipulation Financing.


@ oiram @
Last Edit: 04 Jul 2015 18:27 by Mario.
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Greek Crisis - Germany - FRG - United Nations - Deutsches Reich 04 Jul 2015 19:56 #66

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Lizzy wrote:
We'll see - even whether the vote is legit or not -
the IMF / Germany ect- want Tsipras out of the picture - no bailout with him still there. .
I hope the Greeks get out - is Russia is waiting in the wings and what would that mean in the short and long term ?
my disgust and hatred of these parasite banksters and sayanin helpers is beyond words these days ,no matter where I look.
........



Hopefully this faux pas rather occurred due to typical sloppy language, than lack of knowledge about the essential basics.

@ll => Brush up your knowledge about Germany, the FRG, das Deutsche Reich, the world and the UN / NATO terrorists et al.





click to expand



Subject of International Law "German Empire"

Foreign / Response - 30 June 2015

Berlin: (hib / AHE) The Federal Constitutional Court has ruled in settled case-law that the subject of international law "German Empire" has not ceased to exist (untergegangen) and the Federal Republic of Germany is not its successor, but identical with it as subject of international law. This is indicated by the Federal Government in its reply (18/5178) to an inquiry tabled by The Left (Die Linke) to the Potsdam Agreement of 1945 (18/5033). The MPs had inquired and asked whether the government would reject this publicly as untenable, among others, the "thesis of the continued existence of the German Reich" "so that neo-Nazis and the so-called Reich citizens' movement can not instrumentalize it for their territory revisionism towards the EU-neighbouring countries".




SOURCE => UN - what is this, who created it, how, when and for what reason?
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
Last Edit: 04 Jul 2015 20:12 by PFIZIPFEI.
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Greek Crisis 04 Jul 2015 20:15 #67

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Is one week enough ?

''Greece shouldn’t be having a referendum at all''

''One of the main purposes of government is to maintain social and economic stability, and the uncertainty and uproar that currently characterizes Greece is a clear reflection of ruling party Syriza’s failure to do its job.
Unless Greece’s ruling officials are willing to take a step back and put the interests of their country ahead of their personal and partisan objectives of getting a deal (or lack thereof) done, the worst is surely yet to come.
Prime minister Alexis Tsipras has one last chance to shift the tide of looming crisis that could hit the country before the proposed referendum on July 5. The referendum, presented to the Greek people with “negative advice,” according to Eurogroup president Jeroen Dijsselbloem, sets the stage for disaster.
Direct democracy and referenda are a bad idea to begin with.
The average citizen (Greek or otherwise) is simply not informed enough to make decisions about complex political and economic issues, especially ones that could decide the fate of a country for the foreseeable future. Even if people were informed and educated enough, how could they be trusted to choose the decision that is in the interest of the country, and not their own? The issue at hand is complex and difficult to explain in layman’s terms, let alone vote on in one week.

Instances like this set the stage for the Dunning-Kruger effect: unskilled individuals face illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than is accurate. This is not only wrong, it is dangerous—not only are incompetent people unable to realize that they are incompetent, they are also not able to realize genuine competence in others, leading them to mistake populism and pseudo-nationalism for intelligence.
The main objective of democracy (a Greek idea, by the way) is that people have the power through representation.
Greek citizens elected the current government assuming that it will act on their behalf and in their best interest. However, the repeated and dangerous mistakes Syriza has committed indicate that the Greek people have been duped into supporting a party that is based not only on cheap but also harmful populism.
1
Should the result of the referendum be “no” to the current proposals, Syriza is likely to claim victory in defeat but the reality will prove otherwise. After the markets open, investors in Greek securities and government bonds will experience a sharp selloff in the stock market, according to Mohamed A. el-Erian, former CEO of PIMCO, one of the world’s largest bond investors.
The pragmatic proposal that no one has yet put forward ought to be one that supports the nation’s difficult but necessary path to structural reform and economic growth fit of Eurozone standards. In order to truly put the interests of Greece in mind, the ruling party ought to sacrifice their (perceived) popularity and reach a deal with creditors. Once they do that, Syriza might have a chance at saving Greece. Until then, the easy (and unfortunately more likely) path, is a crisis of mammoth proportions.

qz.com/440676/greece-shouldnt-be-having-a-referendum-at-all/
This kind of disgusting and disrespectful behaviour is condoned here

ORANGEAID verbal abuse

''Cinta is a whore.
I don't change one word I've said.''

truth-zone.net/forum/members-area/67105-open-up-the-clarity-zone-to-all-tz-members-we-need-transparency-and-not-secrecy.html?start=80#209733
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Greek Crisis 05 Jul 2015 09:01 #68

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Lizzy wrote:
We'll see - even whether the vote is legit or not -
the IMF / Germany ect- want Tsipras out of the picture - no bailout with him still there. .
I hope the Greeks get out - is Russia is waiting in the wings and what would that mean in the short and long term ?
my disgust and hatred of these parasite banksters and sayanin helpers is beyond words these days ,no matter where I look.
........
Even Jewish newsagency Reuters has been exposing the IMF lies and posturing to protect the interests of the private banking system. It transpires that the IMF has known since 2010 that it's "rescue" plan in 2010 was just going to push Greece into further debt.

The debt needs to be written off. Simple. The ECB Chief, Draghi, and IMF Chief, Lagarde, both puppets for Jew banking families, have all known this as they "negotiate" current debt matters. Both deserve to go.

The Euro Is Finished

The IMF Debt Sustainability Analysis report on Greece that came out this week has caused a big stir. We now know that the Fund’s analysts confirm what Syriza has been saying ever since they came to power 5 months ago: Greece needs debt relief, lots of it, and fast.

We also know that Europe tried to silence the report. But what’s most interesting is that this has been going on for months, as per Reuters. Ergo, the IMF has known about the -preliminary- analysis for months, and kept silent, while at the same time ‘negotiating’ with Greece on austerity and bailouts.

And if you dig a bit deeper still, there’s no avoiding the fact that the IMF hasn’t merely known this for months, it’s known it for years. The Greek Parliamentary Debt Committee reported three weeks ago that it has in its possession an IMF document from 2010(!) that confirms the Fund knew even at that point in time.

That is to say, it already knew back then that the bailout executed in 2010 would push Greece even further into debt. Which is the exact opposite of what the bailout was supposed to do.

The 2010 bailout was the one that allowed private French, Dutch and German banks to transfer their liabilities to the Greek public sector, and indirectly to the entire eurozone‘s public sector. There was no debt restructuring in that deal.

Reuters yesterday reported that “Publication of the draft Debt Sustainability Analysis laid bare a dispute between Brussels and [the IMF] that has been simmering behind closed doors for months.

But that’s not the whole story. Evidently, there was a major dispute inside the IMF as well. The decision to release the report was apparently taken without even a vote, because it was obvious the Fund’s board members wanted the release. The US played a substantial role in that decision. Why the timing? Hard to tell.

The big question that arises from this is: what has been Christine Lagarde’s role in this charade? If she has been instrumental is keeping the analysis under wraps, she has done the IMF a lot of reputational damage, and it’s getting hard to see how she could possibly stay on as IMF chief. She has seen to it that the Fund has lost an immense amount of trust in the world. And without trust, the IMF is useless.

And while we’re at it, ECB chief Mario Draghi, who is also a major Troika negotiator, made a huge mistake this week in -all but- shutting down the Greek banking system, a decision that remains hard to believe to this day. The function of a central bank is to make sure banks are liquid, not to consciously and willingly strangle them.

How Draghi, after this, could stay on as ECB head is as hard to see as it is to do that for Lagarde’s position. And we should also question the actions and motives of people like Jean-Claude Juncker and Jeroen Dijsselbloem.

They must also have known about the IMF’s assessment, and still have insisted there be no debt relief on the negotiating table, although the analysis says there cannot be a viable deal without it.

One can only imagine Varoufakis’ frustration at finding the door shut in his face every single time he has brought up the subject. Because you don’t really need an IMF analysis to see what’s obvious.

Which is exactly why there is a referendum tomorrow: Alexis Tsipras refused to sign a deal that did not include debt restructuring. It would be comedy if it weren’t so tragic, most of all for the people of Greece. Here’s from Reuters yesterday:
Europeans Tried To Block IMF Debt Report On Greece

Euro zone countries tried in vain to stop the IMF publishing a gloomy analysis of Greece’s debt burden which the leftist government says vindicates its call to voters to reject bailout terms, sources familiar with the situation said on Friday. The document released in Washington on Thursday said Greece’s public finances will not be sustainable without substantial debt relief, possibly including write-offs by European partners of loans guaranteed by taxpayers. It also said Greece will need at least €50 billion in additional aid over the next three years to keep itself afloat. Publication of the draft Debt Sustainability Analysis laid bare a dispute between Brussels and the IMF that has been simmering behind closed doors for months.

Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras cited the report in a televised appeal to voters on Friday to say ‘No’ to the proposed austerity terms, which have anyway expired since talks broke down and Athens defaulted on an IMF loan this week. It was not clear whether an arcane IMF document would influence a cliffhanger poll in which Greece’s future in the euro zone is at stake with banks closed, cash withdrawals rationed and commerce seizing up. “Yesterday an event of major political importance happened,” Tsipras said. “The IMF published a report on Greece’s economy which is a great vindication for the Greek government as it confirms the obvious – that Greek debt is not sustainable.”

At a meeting on the IMF’s board on Wednesday, European members questioned the timing of the report which IMF management proposed at short notice releasing three days before Sunday’s crucial referendum that may determine the country’s future in the euro zone, the sources said. There was no vote but the Europeans were heavily outnumbered and the United States, the strongest voice in the IMF, was in favor of publication, the sources said.

The reason why all Troika negotiators should face very serious scrutiny is that they have willingly kept information behind that should have been crucial in any negotiation with Greece. The reason is obvious: it would have cost Europe’s taxpayers many billions of euros.

But that should never be a reason to cheat and lie. Because once you do that, you’re tarnished for life. So in an even slightly ideal world, they should all resign. Everybody who’s been at that table for the Troika side.

And I can’t see how Angela Merkel would escape the hatchet either. She, too, must have known what the IMF analysts knew. And decided to waterboard the Greek population rather than be forced to explain at home that her earlier decisions (2010) failed so dramatically that her voters would now have to pay the price for them. No, Angela likes to be in power. More than she likes for the Greeks to have proper healthcare.

Understandable, perhaps, but unforgivable as well. Someone should take this entire circus of liars and cheaters and schemers to court. They’re very close to killing the entire EU with their machinations. Not that I mind, the sooner it dies the better, but the people involved should still be held accountable. It’s not even the EU itself which is at fault, or which is a bad idea, it’s these people.

But fear not, there’s no tragedy that doesn’t also have a humorous side. And I don’t mean that to take anything away from the Greek people’s suffering.

Brett Arends at Market Watch wrote a great analysis of his own, and get this, also based on IMF numbers. Turns out, the biggest mistake for Greece and Syriza is to want to stay inside the eurozone. The euro has been such a financial and economic disaster, it’s hard to fathom that nobody has pointed this out before. Stay inside, and there’s no way you can win.

I find this a hilarious read in face of what I see going on here in Greece. It makes everything even more tragic.
Stop Lying To The Greeks — Life Without The Euro Is Great

Will the euro-fanatics please stop lying to the people of Greece? And while they’re at it, will they please stop lying to the rest of us as well? Can they stop pretending that life outside the euro — for the Greeks or any other European country — would be a fate worse than death? Can they stop claiming that if the Greeks go back to the drachma, they will be condemned to a miserable existence on the dark backwaters of European life, a small, forgotten and isolated country with no factories, no inward investment and no hope? Those dishonest threats are being leveled this week at the people of Greece, as they gear up for the weekend’s big referendum on more austerity.

The bully boys of Brussels, Frankfurt and elsewhere are warning the Greek people that if they don’t do as they’re told, and submit to yet more economic leeches, they may end up outside the euro … at which point, of course, life would stop. Bah.

Take a look at the chart. It compares the economic performance of Greece inside the euro with European rivals that don’t use the euro. Those other countries cover a wide range of situations, of course – from rich and stable Denmark, to former Soviet Union countries, to Greece’s neighbor Turkey, which isn’t even in the EU. But they all have one thing in common.



During the past 15 years, while Greece has been enjoying the “benefits” of having Brussels run their monetary policies, those poor suckers have all been stuck running their own affairs and managing their own currencies (if you can imagine). And you can see just how badly they’ve suffered as a result.

They’ve crushed it. Romania, Turkey, Poland, Sweden, Croatia — you name it, they’ve all posted vastly better growth rates than Greece. The data come from the IMF itself. It measures growth in gross domestic product, per person, in constant prices (in other words, with price inflation stripped out). Greece adopted the euro in 2001.

And after 14 years in the same club as the big boys, they are back right where they started. Real per-person economic growth over that time: Zero. Meanwhile Romania, with the leu, has only … er … doubled. Everyone else is up. The Icelanders, who suffered the worst financial catastrophe on the planet in 2008, have nonetheless managed to grow.

Yes, all data points have caveats. Each country has its own story and its own advantages and disadvantages. But the overall picture is clear: The euro has either caused Greece’s disastrous economic performance, or at least failed to prevent it.

What I find amazing about the euro-fanatics is that they just don’t seem to care about facts at all. They carry on repeating the same claims about the alleged miracle cure of their currency, no matter what happens. You can hit them over the head with the latest IMF World Economic Outlook and they carry on droning, unfazed.

I was in England during the 1990s when those people were warning that if the Brits didn’t give up the pound sterling and join the euro, they were doomed as well. For a laugh, I just went through news archives on Factiva and refreshed my memory.

Britain without the euro would be an “orphan country,” petted, humored but ignored, warned one leading figure. Britain would lose all influence and status. It would become a marginal country outside the mainstream of Europe. It would lose “a million jobs.” Factories would close. The car industry would collapse. Foreign investors would walk away because of Britain’s isolation.

Exports would plummet because of exchange-rate fluctuations. The City of London, Britain’s financial district, would lose out to Frankfurt. The London Stock Exchange would be reduced to a local backwater. Tumbleweeds would blow in the streets. (OK, I made that one up.)

And here we are today. Since 1992, when the single currency project began taxiing for takeoff, the countries on board have seen total economic growth of 40%, says the IMF. Poor old Great Britain, stuck back at the departure lounge with its miserable pound sterling? Just 67%. Bah

This currency that Greece is fighting so hard to be part of is in fact strangling it. The reason for this lies in the structure of the EMU. Which makes it impossible for individual countries to adapt to changing circumstances. And circumstances always change. As a country, you need flexibility, you need to be able to adapt to world events.

You need to be able to devalue, you need a central bank to be your lender of last resort. Mario Draghi has refused to be Greece’s lender of last resort. That can’t be, that’s impossible. there is no valid economic reason for such an action, it’s criminal behavior. But the eurozone structure allows for such behavior.

In ‘real life’, where a country has its own central bank, the only reason for it to refuse to be lender of last resort would be political. And it is the same thing here. It’s about power. That’s why Greece’s grandmas can’t get to their meagre pensions. There is no economic reason for that.

In the eurozone, there’s only one nation that counts in the end: Germany. The eurozone has effectively made it possible for Angela Merkel to save her domestic banks from losses by unloading them upon the Greeks. This would not have been possible had Greece not been a member of the eurozone.

That this took, and still takes, scheming and cheating, is obvious. But that is at the same time the reason why either all Troika negotiators must be replaced, and by people who don’t stoop to these levels, or, and I think that’s the much wiser move, countries should leave the eurozone.

Look, it’s simple, the euro is finished. It won’t survive the unmitigated scandal that Greece has become. Greece is not the victim of its own profligacy, it’s the victim of a structure that makes it possible to unload the losses of the big countries’ failing financial systems onto the shoulders of the smaller. There’s no way Greece could win.

The damned lies and liars and statistics that come with all this are merely the cherry on the euro cake. It’s done. Stick a fork in it.

The smaller, poorer, countries in the eurozone need to get out while they can, and as fast as they can, or they will find themselves saddled with ever more losses of the richer nations as the euro falls apart. The structure guarantees it.
www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-04/why-euro-finished
Last Edit: 05 Jul 2015 09:08 by Orangeaid.
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OXI - Deutsche sagen NEIN 05 Jul 2015 09:48 #69

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OXI !
Greece solidarity protesters interrupt Merkel’s speech in Berlin





An anti-austerity protester holds a sheet with the Greek word for 'No' during German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s speech in the German capital Berlin on July 4, 2015.



A group of anti-austerity protesters have interrupted German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s speech in the capital Berlin to show solidarity with 'No' voters in Greece’s bailout referendum.

On Saturday morning, the protesters entered the venue where Merkel was scheduled to deliver a speech on the 70th anniversary of the foundation of her party, the Christian Democratic Union (CDU).

The demonstrators held signs with the word “OXI”, meaning “No” in Greek, and chanted the same word to express their support for a "No" vote in Sunday’s plebiscite, in which Greeks will choose whether to accept international creditors’ demands for more austerity in return for bailout loans.

In response to the protesters, Merkel said, “In order to balance the situation once again, we say ‘NAI’, which means ‘Yes’ in Greek.”

In just a few seconds, security forces escorted the demonstrators out of the building.

Also on Saturday, people in various countries, including the UK, Ireland, and Australia took to the streets to express solidarity with Greek 'No' voters. The demonstrators waved Greek flags and held banners, showing solidarity with the anti-austerity government of Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras.

Tsipras believes a 'No' vote will exert added pressure on the international creditors - the European Central Bank, the European Commission, and the International Monetary Fund - to provide Athens with a better, more economically viable deal.

Greece received two bailout packages in 2010 and 2012 worth a total of €240 billion ($272 billion) from its creditors following its 2009 economic crisis in return for implementing harsh austerity measures.

The debt-ridden country is seeking a third bailout in the hope of resolving its deepening financial crisis.


Source: www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/07/04/418799/Greece-Merkel-bailout-referendum-Tsipras-
Found on: astrologieklassisch.wordpress.com/2015/07/05/berlin-ruft-oxi-rede-des-deutschen-kanzlers-in-berlin-wurde-gestern-unterbrochen-von-oxi-rufen-und-plakaten-mit-oxi/





Source: volksbetrugpunktnet.wordpress.com/2015/07/04/oxi-uberall-griechenland-versteher-unterbrechen-merkels-auftritt/





Aerial view of tens of thousands of protesters in Athens





Source: volksbetrugpunktnet.wordpress.com/2015/07/04/luftaufnahmen-von-den-zehntausenden-bei-der-oxi-versammlung-am-freitag/




REFERENCE => When the Third Reich came to the aid of Greece




Edit:


Nowhere in the FRG can finance minister Wolfgang Schaeuble
be seen as frequently on election posters as in Athens






=> READ MORE or at least take a look at the pictures of this website, which speak for themselves => einheit11.wordpress.com/2015/07/05/auf-so-vielen-wahlplakaten-wie-gerade-in-athen-durfte-finanzminister-wolfgang-schauble-in-ganz-deutschland-nicht-zu-sehen-sein/
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
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Greek Crisis 05 Jul 2015 16:21 #70

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I think that it will be a No vote.
Visit my blog for my story and information about transhumanism

ian2day.com
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Greek Crisis - OXI ! 05 Jul 2015 22:25 #71

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Invalid consumer key/secret in configuration


The Greek people have spoken and they said "OXI"!

So congratulations Greece: for the first time you had the chance to tell the Troika, the unelected eurocrats, and the entire status quo establishment, not to mention all the banks, how you really felt and based on the most recent results, some 61% of you told it to go fuck itself.

Now, on the eve of a new era for Europe and what will likely be a turbulent stretch for financial markets across the globe, Greeks are celebrating in the streets of Athens. Here are the visuals:

www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-05/greeks-flood-syntagma-square-celebrate-no-vote






Honestly, I don't believe that there is any election/poll/plebiscite NOT rigged, do you?
I mean the Coalition of the Radical Left won :hmm: IM 'Erika' (ex FDJ agitation and propaganda secretary) must
in fact be very pleased, deep down in her communist 'heart'.
Does anybody know what the true consequences for the ethnic Greek will be?
Does this outcome have any real influence on anything?
I don't think so. It's part of the agenda.





en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Greece
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romaniote_Jews


See you next Orthodox Christmas in front of the Acropolis ...




English: Saloniki_Holocaust_memorial. Credit: Courtesy of Arie Darzi to memorialize the Jewish community in Greece.עברית: האנדרטה לזכר בני הקהילה היהודית שנרצחו בשואה, בעיר סלוניקי שביווןעברית: נוסח הקרדיט :באדיבות אריה דרזי להנצחת יהדות יוון


OT P.S. Could we agree on the system tools posting only at a certain time and the "normals" also?
I mean it's clear who gets along well with whom and who is who - and they are the majority after all - thus
I would not mind if there were limited times.
Just saying ... :) ;)
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
Last Edit: 05 Jul 2015 23:22 by PFIZIPFEI.
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Greek Crisis - OXI ! 06 Jul 2015 11:29 #72

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Minister No More!


Posted on July 6, 2015 by yanisv

The referendum of 5th July will stay in history as a unique moment when a small European nation rose up against debt-bondage.

Like all struggles for democratic rights, so too this historic rejection of the Eurogroup’s 25th June ultimatum comes with a large price tag attached. It is, therefore, essential that the great capital bestowed upon our government by the splendid NO vote be invested immediately into a YES to a proper resolution – to an agreement that involves debt restructuring, less austerity, redistribution in favour of the needy, and real reforms.

Soon after the announcement of the referendum results, I was made aware of a certain preference by some Eurogroup participants, and assorted ‘partners’, for my… ‘absence’ from its meetings; an idea that the Prime Minister judged to be potentially helpful to him in reaching an agreement. For this reason I am leaving the Ministry of Finance today.

I consider it my duty to help Alexis Tsipras exploit, as he sees fit, the capital that the Greek people granted us through yesterday’s referendum.

And I shall wear the creditors’ loathing with pride.

We of the Left know how to act collectively with no care for the privileges of office. I shall support fully Prime Minister Tsipras, the new Minister of Finance, and our government.

The superhuman effort to honour the brave people of Greece, and the famous OXI (NO) that they granted to democrats the world over, is just beginning.


Source: yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/06/minister-no-more/




www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3149848/Greek-army-riot-police-braced-street-battles-millions-polls-country-s-bailout-referendum-result-close-call.html
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
Last Edit: 06 Jul 2015 11:35 by PFIZIPFEI.
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Greek Crisis - OXI ! 06 Jul 2015 12:11 #73

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PFIZIPFEI wrote:
To understand who rules over you look to whom you tube can't criticise

The media isn't there to cover the news
It's there to cover the news up

All establishment lies pass through three stages
First, they are accepted as being self evident
Second, they are exposed by diligent research
Third, they are enforced

"Communism is the bloodiest, most difficult and the most terrible way from capitalism to capitalism" from Under the Sign of the Scorpion by Juri Lina
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Greek Crisis - OXI ! 06 Jul 2015 20:26 #74

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It's funny, what's going on, isn't it?

The radio moderator I listened to an hour ago and who made me swear heavily :) just could not stop
deriding and mocking the Greeks in the most sneaky ways and I am glad that I don't have tv since long.
I don't want to see the visages of those ...... human vermin (?) ... at that.

The propaganda machinery - we-all-know-who-owns-it - is running hot with defamation of the Greek people.

All I needed to confirm my perception of a totally brainwashed mass of voluntary slaves was a REALLY funny
old but typical monty python - we-all-know-who-they-were - video in this context.
Thanks for making me laugh so hard!

OXI
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
Last Edit: 06 Jul 2015 20:27 by PFIZIPFEI.
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Greek Crisis - OXI ! - WAR IN EUROPE - AGAIN !!! 06 Jul 2015 20:44 #75

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Source => yanisvaroufakis.eu/books/the-global-minotaur/




It's clear to me, why this subject needs to be pushed down and why none of the Ango-American users
wants to really discuss it on an essential basis.

IT'S EUROPE - WHO CARES!


:cool: HISTORY REPEATED BY THE USUAL SUSPECTS !!!


REFERENCE => WAR IN EUROPE








PFIZIPFEI wrote:













"There are also others which are considered “cleft countries”
because they contain very large groups of people identifying
with separate civilizations. Examples include India (“cleft”
between its Hindu majority and large Muslim minority), Ukraine
(“cleft” between its Eastern Rite Catholic-dominated western
section and its Orthodox-dominated east)"










Source and full article => fatalistnsuleaks.wordpress.com/2015/04/13/breaking-the-link-die-deutsche-frage-als-motiv-2er-weltkriege-teil-4/



<<< I'ts a crying shame and an Armutszeugnis how members from all over the world react to this thread or rather seem to ignore it .... Total indifference to everything European? EGOCENTRISM? Believing War in Europe won't affect them? Pathetic illusionary invulnerability? Apathy ...

:dunno: :cool:
.
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
Last Edit: 06 Jul 2015 21:11 by PFIZIPFEI.
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Greek Crisis - OXI ! - WAR IN EUROPE - AGAIN !!! 06 Jul 2015 21:07 #76

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Guess, what will happen next to the Greek people .....



The Stockholm Syndrome


In-Evitably!!!

:cool:
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
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Greek Crisis 06 Jul 2015 23:36 #77

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From March
Could Europe lose Greece to Russia?

By Giorgos Christides

12 March 2015

Greece may need new loans to avoid bankruptcy when its bailout extension expires at the end of June

Deepening ties between Greece's new government and Russia have set off alarm bells across Europe, as the leaders in Athens wrangle with international creditors over reforms needed to avoid bankruptcy.

While Greece may be eyeing Moscow as a bargaining chip, some fear it is inexorably moving away from the West, towards a more benevolent ally, a potential investor and a creditor.

Europe is not pleased. Should it also be worried?

Worst kept secret

A drove of Greek cabinet members will be heading to Moscow.

Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras will be hosted by Russian President Vladimir Putin in May, accompanied by coalition partner Panos Kammenos, defence minister and leader of the populist right-wing Independent Greeks party.

The timing has not escaped analysts.

Greece's bailout extension expires at the end of June and the worst kept secret in Brussels is that Athens will need new loans to stay afloat.

Open arms: Foreign Minister Nikos Kotzias (L) had a warm welcome in Moscow in February

Officially, Greece is not searching for alternative sources of funding.

But a loan from Russia, or perhaps China, could seem a more favourable alternative - or at least supplement - to any new eurozone bailout with all its unpopular measures and reforms attached.

Greece could look forward to cheaper gas for struggling households, increased Russian investment and tourism to provide a much needed economic boost.

Moscow, in return, would be rewarded with a friendly ally with veto power inside the EU at a time of heightened tensions over the Ukraine crisis.

'Russian card'

The new government's intention to forge closer ties with Moscow became evident as soon as the leftist Syriza party won the 25 January election.

Within 24 hours, the first official to visit the newly-elected prime minister was the Russian ambassador, whereas it took German Chancellor Angela Merkel two days to congratulate him with a rather frosty telegram.

On becoming foreign minister, Nikos Kotzias questioned the rationale and effectiveness of EU sanctions against Russia over Ukraine and, from day one, the defence minister advocated stronger relations with Moscow.

Like most members of the Syriza cadre, Mr Tsipras and Mr Kotzias descend politically from the pro-Russian Greek Communist Party.

Mr Kammenos, in common with other hard-right European politicians, also has longstanding ties to Russia.

From 3 weeks ago.

www.cnbc.com/id/102768552
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Greek Crisis 06 Jul 2015 23:56 #78

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​Putin: €2bn Russia-Greece gas deal will help Athens pay its debt

June 20, 2015 12:09 


Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras (L) speaks with Russian President Vladimir Putin during a session of the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum 2015 (SPIEF 2015) in St. Petersburg, Russia, June 19, 2015. (Reuters/Mikhail Klimentyev/RIA Novosti/Kremlin)

A deal to jointly build an extension of the Turkish Stream gas pipeline across Greece will help Athens to settle its multibillion euro debt to international creditors, President Vladimir Putin said at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum.

Talking to the representatives of international media at the Forum, Putin said he didn’t see any support for Greece from the EU, RIA Novosti reports.

“If the EU wants Greece to pay its debt than it should be interested in the Greek economy growing,” Putin said. “The EU should be applauding us. What’s bad about creating new jobs in Greece?” he said, commenting on Russia’s preliminary gas deal with Greece.

Read moreRussia, Greece sign €2bn deal on Turkish Stream gas pipeline

On Friday, Russia and Greece signed a deal to set up a joint company for the construction of the Turkish Stream pipeline across Greek territory that will supply 47 billion cubic meters of gas a year.

Moscow has repeatedly said it was ready to help Greece, if necessary, but so far Athens hasn’tasked for direct financial help.

Tsipras’s government is now locked in tough negotiations with its international creditors – the IMF, the ECB and the European Commission – over its €240 billion debt to them. The total Greek debt now stands at €316 billion, with fears mounting that the country could default without a deal with creditors and leave the Eurozone, as well as the EU.

The panic is bringing the Greek banking system to the verge of a collapse, as record amounts of deposits have been withdrawn from the accounts this week. On Thursday alone, Greek depositors withdrew an estimated €1 billion from the banks, as another round of talks with creditors failed to produce results.

On June 22, the EU will hold a summit in Brussels where the EU officials will make another attempt to resolve the Greek crisis. On this day Greek banks may remain closed, according to ECB Executive Board member Benoit Coeure, Reuters reported Thursday.
rt.com/business/268546-russia-greece-gas-deal/
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Greek Crisis 07 Jul 2015 14:32 #79

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Greek Crisis 07 Jul 2015 15:54 #80

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this is interesting - oranges' post above is also cited -

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