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TOPIC: MH17 - real, false flag or hoax?

MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 04:28 #1

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Lizzy wrote:
dummies and crisis actors don't sue .....real victims do .

Liz... did you see the vid above you post..? Do you still think that's fake?

Besides that, Malaysia Airlines just made an agreement to compensate all relatives of the deceased who were on board of MH-17:

MH17 crash: Malaysia Airlines 'strikes deal on damages', says lawyer

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36822028
Last Edit: 18 Jul 2016 04:45 by Gaia.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 08:24 #2

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What's your personal opinion, Flare, real, false flag or hoax?




Further reference on TZ:


:right: Malaysian Airlines 777 "shot down" on Russia - Ukraine border Original thread by Orangeaid

:right: Israeli-made air-to-air missile may have downed MH17 - report by Oracle

:right: MH17 & The Holocaust by Gaia

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"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

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Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
Last Edit: 18 Jul 2016 08:37 by PFIZIPFEI.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 12:26 #3

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False Flag to put the blame on Russia. (probably)

Yesterday, it was exactly 2 years ago that the plane crashed and my wife told me she had sent a message to her colleague who lost her sister in the crash that day. (as the girl wasn't at work since she had a day off due to mourning)
Last Edit: 18 Jul 2016 12:28 by Flare.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 16:52 #4

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The story:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
According to the original flight plan, MH17 was to fly over Ukraine at flight level 330 (33,000 feet or 10,060 metres) and then change to FL 350 around Dnipropetrovsk. When it reached the area as planned, at 12:53 UTC Dnipropetrovsk Air Control (Dnipro Control) asked MH17 if they could climb to FL 350 as planned, and also to avoid a potential separation conflict with another flight, Singapore Airlines Flight 351, also at FL 330. The crew asked to remain at FL 330 and the air control approved this request, moving the other flight to FL 350. At 13:00 UTC the crew asked for diversion of 20 nautical miles (37 km) to the left (north) due to weather conditions. This request was also approved by Dnipro Control. The crew then asked if they could climb to FL 340, which was rejected as this flight level was not available, so MH17 remained at FL 330. At 13:19 UTC Dnipro Control noticed that the flight was 3.6 nautical miles (6.7 km) north from the centerline of approved track and instructed MH17 to return to the track. At 13:19 UTC Dnipro Control contacted Russian air control in Rostov-on-Don (RND) over telephone and requested clearance for transferring the flight to Russian air control. After obtaining the permission, Dnipro Control attempted to contact MH17 and pass them the details of Rostov-on-Don track at 13:20 UTC. When MH17 did not respond to several calls, Dnipro Control contacted RND again to check if they could see the Boeing on their radar. RND confirmed that the plane had disappeared.

The aircraft crashed outside Hrabove, near Torez in eastern Ukraine's Donetsk Oblast, with debris spread over a 50 square kilometres (19 sq mi) area to the southwest of Hrabove.[28]:53 The fireball on impact is believed to have been captured on video.[67] Photographs from the site of the crash show scattered pieces of broken fuselage and engine parts, bodies, and passports.[68] Some of the wreckage fell close to houses.[69] Dozens of bodies fell into crop fields, and some fell into houses.

The numerology

17-7-2014 (=7)
Boeing 777
first flew on 17 July 1997, exactly 17 years before the incident, and was delivered new to Malaysia Airlines on 29 July 1997
MH17
Same day, 22 years after, as another hoaxed event; TWA Flight 800 (TWA 800), a Boeing 747-100, exploded and crashed into the Atlantic Ocean near East Moriches, New York, on July 17, 1996
33,000 feet
The closest aircraft was 33 kilometres (21 mi) away
a Malaysian team of 133 officials and experts, arrived in Ukraine.

The inconsistencies

- allegedly, a plane was hit by a missile @ 10+ km altitude and the fireball would have been captured on video
- then these photos cannot be correct, not a single shred of fireball damage:



No sign of any burning
No sign of any impact of free fall for 10 km!



idem



:larf: passport is brand new, unused, not burnt



:larf: passport is brand new, unused, not burnt
Numerology: 10-10-01, 11-4-11, 1,47



All brand new unused passports
No sign of burning
What are the odds such a collection of passport is found in 1 spot when the blast was allegedly at 10 km altitude?
If the passports are gathered in this spot for the photo, the reporter is illegally destroying a "crime scene" - and he/she would need to have collected the passports over an area of many km2s



No burn/explosion marks
Double focus, close and farther away
Guy allegedly next to piece of tail out of focus, while tail piece is in focus



idem
where does the bush come from, that is not in the other pics?



no burn/explosion marks



Dutch (crisis) actress



donation scams :yerright:



smirking face of passenger "who just missed" the deadly flight

===========

I say hoax. A false flag doesn't solve, yet maintains the photo inconsistencies and real is evenly impossible.
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Last Edit: 18 Jul 2016 16:58 by Gaia.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 17:05 #5

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I remember the day when I was watching television about the crash, and of course while keeping an eye on the conspiracies, my wife came home.

I directly told her about the plane crash, but even though she already had seen it on her phone, she didn't want to watch tv as she doesn't like these things.

So, she fell asleep on the couch... and 2 hours later her phone rang. It was her colleague on the phone in tears, telling her sister was on board of that plane. My wife directly in tears as well. After 2 months her colleague came back to work and my wife helped her along, talked about it with her a lot. She attended the funeral when the remains of her sister were returned a few months later to Holland. Even bought her colleague a gift out of sympathy...

That MH-17 crash was real as it can be.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 17:17 #6

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And indeed, there's a lot of numerology involved:



Even the MH-17 monument is an all-seeing eye:



But that plane DID come down.
Last Edit: 18 Jul 2016 17:18 by Flare.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 17:18 #7

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witness X wrote:
I remember the day when I was watching television about the holocaust, and of course while keeping an eye on the conspiracies, my wife came home.

I directly told her about the holocaust, but even though she already had seen it elsewhere, she didn't want to watch tv as she doesn't like these things.

So, she fell asleep on the couch... and 2 hours later the phone rang. It was her colleague on the phone in tears, telling her sister was gassed to death in a gas chamber. My wife directly in tears as well. After 2 months her colleague came back to work and my wife helped her along, talked about it with her a lot. She attended the ceremony when the ashes of her sister were returned a few months later to Holland. Even bought her colleague a gift out of sympathy...

That holocaust was real as it can be.

[no matter the inconsistencies in the story]
[no matter the impossible physics/chemistry]
[no matter the research about it]
[emotional blackmailing is stronger than whatever evidence]

Do you see the mirror now? :ponda:
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 17:28 #8

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Witness X...?

You think I'm lying here?

All you are doing is posting perfectly normal pictures, coming from cluesforum which you think is somehow 'proof', because it comes from cluesforum; the most ridiculous Truther forum out there.

Here's the passenger-list: www.malaysiaairlines.com/content/dam/malaysia-airlines/mas/PDF/MH17/MH17%20PAX%20AND%20CREW%20MANIFEST%20200714.pdf

Those are real people, with real families.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 17:43 #9

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I don't think you or your wife is lying.
It may even be that colleague isn't lying.
Photos come from MSM; dailymail, etc., you haven't checked them as is obvious
A passenger list proves nothing
The last claim is typical cognitive dissonance ("I/my family am/is emotionally influenced, so I want it to be true")
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 19:02 #10

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Check some names on the list and you can find all im memoriams on the net, as these were real people.

Or you think these people vanished some other way?
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 19:13 #11

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www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36822028

I bet all those that got a pay out are in on the game and we all know who gets the lions share ........ we never hear about the smaller hoaxes suing ?

yes- I still think it was hoaxed .......... just the angle this time was to blame Russia .
Last Edit: 18 Jul 2016 19:23 by Lizzy.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 19:19 #12

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Flare wrote:
False Flag to put the blame on Russia. (probably)

Yesterday, it was exactly 2 years ago that the plane crashed and my wife told me she had sent a message to her colleague who lost her sister in the crash that day. (as the girl wasn't at work since she had a day off due to mourning)

very odd .......... so did your wife ask anything more about it ?
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 19:19 #13

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That people were real people still doesn't prove anything. My family, at least 2 of them, were also real people who allegedly died en masse in Auschwitz and Sóbibor. That doesn't make the gas chamber story real.

Just like a list of names, of which many really exist(ed) doesn't make an alleged plane shot from the air real.

Unburnt passports are not suddenly proof of reality of the "event" if the people were real.
Pristine suitcases are not suddenly proof of an explosion in the air if the people were real.
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 19:45 #14

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Lizzy wrote:
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36822028

I bet all those that got a pay out are in on the game and we all know who gets the lions share ........ we never hear about the smaller hoaxes suing ?

yes- I still think it was hoaxed .......... just the angle this time was to blame Russia .

Here we go again... completely ridiculous.

My wife has heard her sister cry (my wife also crying as I was sitting next to her on the fucking couch) on the phone and see her burst into tears when she was back at work. Even went to the funeral with her family, friends, relatives and even the fucking mayor attended it. Heck, everytime a new piece of her was identified and sent back home she got to hear which piece it was for Christ's sake.

Think that's all "staged" and "everyone must have been into it" ?
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 19:56 #15

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Gaia wrote:
That people were real people still doesn't prove anything. My family, at least 2 of them, were also real people who allegedly died en masse in Auschwitz and Sóbibor. That doesn't make the gas chamber story real.

Just like a list of names, of which many really exist(ed) doesn't make an alleged plane shot from the air real.

Unburnt passports are not suddenly proof of reality of the "event" if the people were real.
Pristine suitcases are not suddenly proof of an explosion in the air if the people were real.

That's because of malnutrition and disease. Not because orders were given to kill jews.

Passports can perfectly survive when a passenger plane is hit at high altitude... it's not like at 9-11 when the whole thing went straight through a skyscraper. A passenger plane which is hit at high altitude just comes down, possibliy breaks up along the way and crashes on the ground with an explosion of the remaining fuel, but leaving a lot of stuff (like suitcases and such) intact.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 19:58 #16

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Lizzy wrote:
Flare wrote:
False Flag to put the blame on Russia. (probably)

Yesterday, it was exactly 2 years ago that the plane crashed and my wife told me she had sent a message to her colleague who lost her sister in the crash that day. (as the girl wasn't at work since she had a day off due to mourning)

very odd .......... so did your wife ask anything more about it ?

What's odd? My wife sent her a message out of sympathy because it happened 2 years earlier.

What else should she have asked?
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 20:03 #17

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Lots of intrusive questions about the condition of the body and belongings and such,, I imagine. :roll:
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 20:16 #18

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Flare wrote:
Lizzy wrote:
Flare wrote:
False Flag to put the blame on Russia. (probably)

Yesterday, it was exactly 2 years ago that the plane crashed and my wife told me she had sent a message to her colleague who lost her sister in the crash that day. (as the girl wasn't at work since she had a day off due to mourning)

very odd .......... so did your wife ask anything more about it ?

What's odd? My wife sent her a message out of sympathy because it happened 2 years earlier.

What else should she have asked?

being me - and what I think - I would have asked if the family were well and how they weather the lawsuit ? but that's b/c had it been me - I'd have considered the idea soemone was messing with me.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 20:38 #19

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Passports can """perfectly""" survive when a passenger plane is hit [by a surface-to-air-missile- and exploded!] at high altitude...

Claim without back-up in the form of experiments, scientific publications or anything. Just an empty claim with no value whatsoever.
A passenger plane which is hit at high altitude just comes down,

Claim without any content or value (2).
possibliy breaks up along the way and crashes on the ground with an explosion of the remaining fuel, but leaving a lot of stuff (like suitcases and such) intact.

Claim without any content, value, experiments, scientific research (3).

An object falling from 10 km altitude reaches amazing speeds.

Example:
10 km altitude
10 kg suitcase

www.angio.net/personal/climb/speed

Speed at impact:442.72 m/s or 1593.79 km/h = supersonic
Time until impact: 45.18 s
Energy at impact: 980,000.00 joules

~1 kJ of energy.

Performance test on high-impact resistant screens


Of the 10 competing products tested in 2011:

8 failed to reach the 200 joules level recommended by UNSW@ADFA
6 failed to reach the 100 joules level required by the Australian Standard
Only 2 managed to pass the Australian Standard
Our base product range, Crimsafe Regular, passed a minimum of 500 joules in a single impact!


So - how strong are the security screens on your home?

This is important because the first kick or hit on your security screen from an intruder is usually their hardest, and delivers the most energy. The more they attack the screen the less energy they can impart.

For this reason you need a screen that can withstand an impact of at least the same level of energy discharged by the initial force of aggression delivered by an intruder. Crimsafe is the security screen proven to hold fast against an attack of this level.

Watch the video at the end of this page to see 3 competing brands fail to withstand the basic impact equivalent of the Australian Standard: 5 x impacts of 100 joules.

The Dynamic Impact Test

In the Australian Standard AS5041—2003 - Methods of Test, the Dynamic Impact Test simulates the effects of a human impact against a security screen door or window grille by allowing a standardised weight to swing against the test specimen 5 times. Each impact is about 100 joules of energy. That's roughly the impact force imparted by a child stumbling into a glass door and in fact, the test was originally designed for the glazing industry so they could make glass that didn't shatter upon a small impact.

Standard not high enough, yet competing screens still failing

Unfortunately, 100 joules is a lot less force than a motivated burglar can deliver. After the testing in 2009 we requested the scientists conducting the test to make a recommendation on the level of impact resistance that the Australian Standard should require, and they put the figure at 150 joules and 10 impacts if the burglar kicks the door and 200 joules if the burglar is able to use an implement such as a baseball bat or brick.

Yet 6 of the competing brands that we tested failed to meet even the current minimum standard of impact resistance. These screens are leading brands and they broke before the test delivered 100 joules of energy in an impact!

From our perspective it is very disappointing that the Australian Standard doesn't require better performance of security screens. In fact, in most cases, the word 'security' should not be associated with these screens as most fail to deliver adequate protection against one of the most common methods of entry: a well-aimed kick.

Impact force:

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/flobi.html

10,000 m
10 kg
10 cm bounce/penetration

gives 800,000 N = 800 kN

Comparison:

www.exo.net/~pauld/books/car_science/miscellaneous_car_science.html

A 60 mph crash is like a 140 foot fall. Math.
A 100 km/hr crash is like a 50 meter fall.


The impact is like jumping off a 12 story, (140 foot, or 50m, high) building, face first onto an oddly shaped piece of steel, the dashboard, and glass, the windshield. This is not good for your body.

Funny video with a car test (not completely similar; more time and more mass, but much lower impact velocity):

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"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
Last Edit: 18 Jul 2016 20:38 by Gaia.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 20:42 #20

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Lizzy wrote:
Flare wrote:
Lizzy wrote:
Flare wrote:
False Flag to put the blame on Russia. (probably)

Yesterday, it was exactly 2 years ago that the plane crashed and my wife told me she had sent a message to her colleague who lost her sister in the crash that day. (as the girl wasn't at work since she had a day off due to mourning)

very odd .......... so did your wife ask anything more about it ?

What's odd? My wife sent her a message out of sympathy because it happened 2 years earlier.

What else should she have asked?

being me - and what I think - I would have asked if the family were well and how they weather the lawsuit ? but that's b/c had it been me - I'd have considered the idea soemone was messing with me.

My best friend also "knew" one of the "victims" of MH17. A former class mate, he didn't know her well, but she was from a well-to-do family. He couldn't confirm if she was really dead or just relocated. And he didn't claim "SHE IS ABSOLUTELY DEAD, I WAS DEVASTATED, YOU F*CKING MORON, THAT MH17 "DEFINATELY" HAPPENED!!!1!!1!!!!!" :wissl:
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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