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TOPIC: MH17 - real, false flag or hoax?

MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 20:50 #21

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Lizzy wrote:
Flare wrote:
Lizzy wrote:
Flare wrote:
False Flag to put the blame on Russia. (probably)

Yesterday, it was exactly 2 years ago that the plane crashed and my wife told me she had sent a message to her colleague who lost her sister in the crash that day. (as the girl wasn't at work since she had a day off due to mourning)

very odd .......... so did your wife ask anything more about it ?

What's odd? My wife sent her a message out of sympathy because it happened 2 years earlier.

What else should she have asked?

being me - and what I think - I would have asked if the family were well and how they weather the lawsuit ? but that's b/c had it been me - I'd have considered the idea soemone was messing with me.

She sees the girl every day at work and has heard all she had to go through... so what did she have to ask her else? She knows about how her family feels. But she hasn't asked her how they weathered the lawsuit yet, since the decision of compensation has only been taken a few days ago.

And she only sent her a message yesterday out of sympathy because it was exactly 2 years ago... and on that day she's not going to ask how much they will receive on their account.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 20:57 #22

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Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


:arowdn: @ 03:00 soldiers going through the debris of the airplane on the ground, of which a lot is still intact :arowdn:



What are you thinking?! Plane crashes to the ground and everything turns to dust??
Last Edit: 18 Jul 2016 20:58 by Flare.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 21:00 #23

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Prof. Dr. Baby, could you give some scientific research evidence, tests, physical explanations or reasoning for your bold claims?
No, and I cannot even read and understand the question and post where there is physics involved, but here, another clip from the same hoaxer crowd, that should convince you. And I add a ragnatroll strawman "question" as bonus.


:facepalm:
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Last Edit: 18 Jul 2016 21:01 by Gaia.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 21:44 #24

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Gaia wrote:

An object falling from 10 km altitude reaches amazing speeds.

Example:
10 km altitude
10 kg suitcase

www.angio.net/personal/climb/speed

Speed at impact:442.72 m/s or 1593.79 km/h = supersonic
Time until impact: 45.18 s
Energy at impact: 980,000.00 joules

~1 kJ of energy.

Performance test on high-impact resistant screens



So you really think if you drop a suitcase from the sky it will reach supersonic speed and break the soundbarrier?

Sweet Jesus....

======================================================================================
Granted, the odds of surviving a 6-mile plummet are extra­ordinarily slim, but at this point you've got nothing to lose by understanding your situation. There are two ways to fall out of a plane. The first is to free-fall, or drop from the sky with absolutely no protection or means of slowing your descent. The second is to become a wreckage rider, a term coined by Massachusetts-based amateur historian Jim Hamilton, who developed the Free Fall Research Page—an online database of nearly every imaginable human plummet. That classification means you have the advantage of being attached to a chunk of the plane. In 1972, Serbian flight attendant Vesna Vulovic was traveling in a DC-9 over Czechoslovakia when it blew up. She fell 33,000 feet, wedged between her seat, a catering trolley, a section of aircraft and the body of another crew member, landing on—then sliding down—a snowy incline before coming to a stop, severely injured but alive.


Surviving a plunge surrounded by a semiprotective cocoon of debris is more common than surviving a pure free-fall, according to Hamilton's statistics; 31 such confirmed or "plausible" incidents have occurred since the 1940s. Free-fallers constitute a much more exclusive club, with just 13 confirmed or plausible incidents, including perennial Ripley's Believe It or Not superstar Alan Magee—blown from his B-17 on a 1943 mission over France. The New Jersey airman, more recently the subject of a MythBusters episode, fell 20,000 feet and crashed into a train station; he was subsequently captured by German troops, who were astonished at his survival.

Whether you're attached to crumpled fuselage or just plain falling, the concept you'll be most interested in is terminal velocity. As gravity pulls you toward earth, you go faster. But like any moving object, you create drag—more as your speed increases. When downward force equals upward resistance, acceleration stops. You max out.

Depending on your size and weight, and factors such as air density, your speed at that moment will be about 120 mph—and you'll get there after a surprisingly brief bit of falling: just 1500 feet, about the same height as Chicago's Sears (now Willis) Tower. Equal speed means you hit the ground with equal force.
The difference is the clock. Body meets Windy City sidewalk in 12 seconds. From an airplane's cruising altitude, you'll have almost enough time to read this entire article.

www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/outdoors/a5045/4344036/
===============================================================================================

Matter of fact, I didn't hear any sonic boom on the way down when I jumped from a plane myself from 4 km. :chuckle:
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 22:33 #25

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what does this mean ...... 4.07 .......5 paratroopers jumped from plane ?

To my recollection what became evident was that dummies were used , I think the pro west blew the plane up themselves in order to implicate Russia .

www.liveleak.com/view?i=af3_1437085525

I've watched 60- 64 ..


the bodies always looked fishy to me and still do.

BTW - I have a friend who said her son knew someone - who knew someone that died in 911.- doesn't make it true .
Last Edit: 18 Jul 2016 23:07 by Lizzy.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 22:44 #26

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How can you say it is evident that dummies were used when these people are right there on the ground recognising them as civilian passengers?

I don't know what the comment about 5 paratroopers meant, but it is quite clear that these people were disappointed that it was a civilian plane from their indignation that it was even flying over the area.

It always intrigues me why these sort of video uploads are cut off so suddenly, almost as if they want things to be taken out of context.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 22:47 #27

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ragnarok wrote:
How can you say it is evident that dummies were used when these people are right there on the ground recognising them as civilian passengers?

I don't know what the comment about 5 paratroopers meant, but it is quite clear that these people were disappointed that it was a civilian plane from their indignation that it was even flying over the area.

It always intrigues me why these sort of video uploads are cut off so suddenly, almost as if they want things to be taken out of context.

well some uploads and utube vids have been taken down too ....

disappointed ? ....how bizarre ......... I'd say . they pulled a FF with no lost of life ....didn't get to pin it to the monkey -but many would still say today Russia did it.
Last Edit: 18 Jul 2016 22:58 by Lizzy.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 23:27 #28

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Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


W.t.f. Liz. do you think those Russians in the vid were also 'paid off' to just tell a story?

The bodies look fishy to you..? Those are real bodies there. What makes you think they're dummies?

BTW - I have a friend who said her son knew someone - who knew someone that died in 911.- doesn't make it true

This statement is just ridiculous....

My wife, sat at the same block at work with the girl who lost her sister in that crash. So every goddamn day, she helped her along with it.

That is not someone who knew someone who knew someone who knew someone.... she sat right next to her every day.
Or what are you thinking..?! The girl was paid to cry at work to make it look real for her colleagues?

Did you check that passenger list yet and have you looked up some names?

Looks like you are searching in the wrong directions, as you are only looking into the weird directions which confirms your bias.
Last Edit: 18 Jul 2016 23:27 by Flare.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 23:34 #29

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Flare wrote:
My wife, sat at the same block at work with the girl who lost her sister in that crash. So every goddamn day, she helped her along with it.

That is not someone who knew someone who knew someone who knew someone.... she sat right next to her every day.
Or what are you thinking..?! The girl was paid to cry at work to make it look real for her colleagues?
Looks like you are searching in the wrong directions, as you are only looking into the weird directions which confirms your bias.

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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 23:40 #30

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Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


Says the one who thinks a suitcase dropped from the sky reaches supersonic speed and windshields of cars shatter with the impact of one bullet.

Gimme a f*king break...
Last Edit: 18 Jul 2016 23:44 by Gaia.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 23:41 #31

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She's seen a few real fakes and examined the pixels.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 23:45 #32

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impact of one bullet.

28 bullets = 1. :larf:
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 18 Jul 2016 23:56 #33

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Gaia wrote:
impact of one bullet.

28 bullets = 1. :larf:
Gaia wrote:
If it's bullet-proof, it doesn't crack. If it's not, it shatters especially after 28 bullets.
PFIZIPFEI wrote:
Not necessarily ... it seems ...



orf.at/stories/2198884/2198883/

I guess this police car had no bulletproof glass ....

:larf:

And now pls explain again about the suitcases reaching supersonic speed if they drop from the sky.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 19 Jul 2016 00:00 #34

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28 bullets on the windshield in Nice, not 1... :yerright:

Supersonic speed is just the calculation of the falling velocity, without air resistance of course, as that is not included in the calculation. Link to the website was provided so you could check it. But you didn't, you just continue your confirmation bias based on some woman who works with ze wife. That doesn't prove anything, only that you are susceptible to emotional blackmail.
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"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
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"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 19 Jul 2016 00:09 #35

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Gaia wrote:
28 bullets on the windshield in Nice, not 1... :yerright:

Supersonic speed is just the calculation of the falling velocity, without air resistance of course, as that is not included in the calculation. Link to the website was provided so you could check it. But you didn't, you just continue your confirmation bias based on some woman who works with ze wife. That doesn't prove anything, only that you are susceptible to emotional blackmail.

Emotional blackmail?! The fuck are you talking about?

The sister of her colleague died in that crash.

But I see what you're doing here... you're just trolling the fuck out of this thread because your own Holocaust seemed to be hoaxed, so you're trying to get back at me this way.

Well, too bad for you, but I'm not spending a second more in this crappy "Gaia's Sphere of influence" subforum of yours.

Suitcases dropping from the sky with supersonic speed... gimme a break.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 19 Jul 2016 00:16 #36

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Emotional blackmail?! The fuck are you talking about?

The sister of her colleague died in that crash.

You have no proof she died. Only emotion that blurs your view on this.

A comment (or 299 comments) about people who "died" does NOT change the impossible physics of this "event". A plane allegedly exploded in the air after being hit by a surface-to-air-missile, but everything "found" on the ground is perfectly intact, including passports on a pile, suitcases and their contents, even plane "wreckage" doesn't show any signs of explosions or fire.

No emotional blackmail is going to change that. :yerright:
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 20 Jul 2016 15:29 #37

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@Flare the BBC Russia footage showing local Ukrainian residents often saw Ukrainian fighter jets tail commercial jets for protection and did so on July 17 - a clear sunny day

Local residents saw the plane shot from the sky and crash

BBC UK pulled the story off its site 2 hours after it was posted

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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 20 Jul 2016 15:37 #38

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Shocking Analysis of the ‘Shooting Down’ of Malaysian MH17

JULI 30, 2014

Peter Haisenko in Cockpit of Condor DC 10
By Peter Haisenko Zur deutschen Version bitte hier anklicken
The tragedy of Malaysian MH 017 continues to elude any light of clarity being cast over it. The flight recorders are in England and are evaluated. What can come of it? Maybe more than you would assume. Especially the voice recorder will be interesting when you look at the picture of a cockpit fragment. As an expert in aviation I closely looked at the images of the wreckage that are circulating on the Internet.
First, I was amazed at how few photos can be found from the wreckage with Google. All are in low resolution, except one: The fragment of the cockpit below the window on the pilots side. This image, however, is shocking. In Washington, you can now hear views expresssed of a “potentially tragic error / accident” regarding MH 017. Given this particular cockpit image it does not surprise me at all.
Entry and exit impact holes of projectiles in the cockpit area



Source for all photos: Internet
I recommend to click on the little picture to the right. You can download this photo as a PDF in good resolution. This is necessary, because that will allow you understand what I am describing here. The facts speak clear and loud and are beyond the realm of speculation: The cockpit shows traces of shelling! You can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards. These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likeley that of a 30 millimeter caliber projectile. The edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes showing shreds of metal pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that at these exit holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or bent – outwardly! Furthermore, minor cuts can be seen, all bent outward, which indicate that shrapnel had forcefull exited through the outer skin from the inside of the cockpit. The open rivets are are also bent outward.
In sifting through the available images one thing stands out: All wreckage of the sections behind the cockpit are largely intact, except for the fact that only fragments of the aircraft remained . Only the cockpit part shows these peculiar marks of destruction. This leaves the examiner with an important clue. This aircraft was not hit by a missile in the central portion. The destruction is limited to the cockpit area. Now you have to factor in that this part is constructed of specially reinforced material. This is on account of the nose of any aircraft having to withstand the impact of a large bird at high speeds. You can see in the photo, that in this area significantly stronger aluminum alloys were being installed than in the remainder of the outer skin of the fuselage. One remembers the crash of Pan Am over Lockerbie. It was a large segment of the cockpit that due to the special architecture survived the crash in one piece. In the case of flight MH 017 it becomes abundantly clear that there also an explosion took place inside the aircraft.

Tank destroying mix of amunititon

Bullet holes in the outer skin
So what could have happened? Russia recently published radar recordings, that confirm at least one Ukrainian SU 25 in close proximity to MH 017. This corresponds with the statement of the now missing Spanish controller ‘Carlos’ that has seen two Ukrainian fighter aircraft in the immediate vicinity of MH 017. If we now consider the armament of a typical SU 25 we learn this: It is equipped with a double-barreled 30-mm gun, type GSh-302 / AO-17A, equipped with: a 250 round magazine of anti-tank incendiary shells and splinter-explosive shells (dum-dum), arranged in alternating order. The cockpit of the MH 017 has evidently been fired at from both sides: the entry and exit holes are found on the same fragment of it’s cockpit segment!

Now just consider what happens when a series of anti-tank incendiary shells and splinter-explosive shells hit the cockpit. These are after all designed to destroy a modern tank. The anti-tank incendiary shells partially traversed the cockpit and exited on the other side in a slightly deformed shape. (Aviation forensic experts could possibly find them on the ground presumably controlled by the Kiev Ukrainian military; the translator). After all, their impact is designed to penetrate the solid armor of a tank. Also, the splinter-explosive shells will, due to their numerous impacts too cause massive explosions inside the cockpit, since they are designed to do this. Given the rapid firing sequence of the GSh-302 cannon, it will cause a rapid succession of explosions within the cockpit area in a very short time. Remeber each of these is sufficient to destroy a tank.
What “mistake” was actually being committed – and by whom?

Graze on the wing
Because the interior of a commercial aircraft is a hermetically sealed pressurized chamber, the explosions will, in split second, increase the pressure inside the cabin to extreme levels or breaking point. An aircraft is not equipped for this, it will burst like a balloon. This explains a coherent scenario. The largely intact fragments of the rear sections broke in mid air at the weaker points of contstruction most likely under extreme internal air pressure. The images of the widely scattered field of debris and the brutally damaged segment of cockpit fit like hand in glove. Furthermore, a wing segment shows traces of a grazing shot, which in direct extension leads to the cockpit. Interestingly, I found that both the high-resolution photo of the fragment of bullet riddled cockpit as well as the segment of grazed wing have in the meantime disappeared from Google Images. One can find virtually no more pictures of the wreckage, except the well known smoking ruins.
If you listen to the voices from Washington now who speak of a “potentially tragic error / accident”, all that remains is the question of what might have been the nature of this “mistake” perpetrated here. I am not given to hover long in the realm of speculation, but would like to invite others to consider the following : The MH 017 looked similar in it’s tricolor design to that that of the Russian President’s plane. The plane with Presdient Putin on board was at the same time ”near” Malaysia MH 017. In aviation circles “close” would be considered to be anywhere between 150 to 200 miles. Also, in this context we might consider the deposition of Ms. Tymoshenko, who wanted to shoot Presdient Putin with a Kalashnikov.
But that this remains pure speculation. The shelling of the cockpit of air Malaysia MH 017, however, is definitely not.

Supplement, 2014-08-01:
Time and again it is stated that the SU 25 has a maximum flight altitude of 7,000 meters and that’s why this jet couldn’t be able to bring down MH 017. Seeking for an answer on Wikipedia – this statement will be confirmed. If you go to the trouble of broadening your knowledge by questioning a specialist book, you’ll get completely different information: the maximum flight altitude of the SU 25 is 14,600 meters. Check here: www.fliegerweb.com/militaer/flugzeuge/lexikon.php?show=lexikon-50
Until beginning of july 2014 Wikipedia gave the maximum flight altitude for the SU 25 with “ca. 10.000 Meters”. As well in the english version as in the german one. Now one finds it “corrected” to 7.000 meters. In the Wikipedia discussions-forum roared up an intensive discussion about the correct value.

The handbook “Flugzeuge der Welt” by W. Green (1984), a standard work which essentially quotes the facts of the military “Janes Manuals” (also used to be NATO reference), already 1984 determined the maximum flight altitude of SU 25 (SU 25 MK, export version) with 10,670 meters (page 208 f.). The performance of the SU 25 has been upgraded since that time.
Here a link to the statement of a canadian OSCE-participant, who observed evidence on parts of the wreckage, that the aircraft had been hit by rounds of heavy machine-gun-fire:


Nach oben
Last Edit: 20 Jul 2016 16:08 by Orangeaid.
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 16 Mar 2019 16:20 #39

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The Netherlands and Australia will hold Russia legally responsible for “its role” in the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17) after investigators found the missile was fired from Russia’s 53rd Anti-Aircraft Brigade.

Dutch foreign minister Stef Blok told reporters on Friday the findings “point to direct involvement of Russia” and “the government is now taking the next step by formally holding Russia accountable”.
The Dutch government said accusing Russia for the 2014 air disaster, which left almost 300 people dead, is “a complex legal process”.
Dutch cabinet stated that presenting the case to an international court is a “possible” next step, adding Australia agrees that Russia must be held accountable.

Australian foreign minister Julie Bishop called for support from the international community for the move:
“If military weapons can be deployed and then used to bring down civilian aircraft in what was essentially a war zone, then international security is at risk and we call on all countries to inform the Russian Federation that its conduct is unacceptable.”

The US department of state said it “strongly supported” the move by the Netherlands and Australia.
Heather Nauert said:
“It is time for Russia to acknowledge its role in the shooting down of MH-17 and to cease its callous disinformation campaign.”

Bullingdon Boy and British Foreign secretary Boris Johnson said the UK “fully supports” the Dutch and Australian request for Russia to accept state responsibility:
“The Kremlin believes it can act with impunity. The Russian government must now answer for its actions in relation to the downing of MH17.
This is an egregious example of the Kremlin’s disregard for innocent life.
The UK will continue to offer its full support to the efforts of the joint investigation team, the Dutch and Australian authorities and other grieving nations to deliver accountability for this terrible act and justice for all those who died.”

Nato secretary general Jens Stoltenberg, called on Russia to accept responsibility for the crash:
“Nato has repeatedly expressed its full support for the efforts undertaken by the Dutch authorities and others to shed light on what happened on that terrible day, and to achieve justice for the 298 people who were killed and their loved ones.”

The highly unreliable Bellingcat claims it has “conclusively identified” that former Russian defence ministry officer Oleg Ivannikov was operating inside Ukraine at the time the Malaysia Airlines flight was destroyed: www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/flight-mh17-latest-russia-missile-malaysia-airlines-netherlands-australia-ukraine-a8368566.html


Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov denied the allegations by the Dutch and Australian government, that none of the missile systems belonging to the Russian Armed Forces had ever been taken abroad and said that an atmosphere of “mutual distrust” existed between the investigation team and Russia:
“We categorically deny the allegations. The investigation was a collective investigation … but it did not include the Russian side. Ukraine, however, was allowed to participate.”

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that Moscow had provided Dutch investigators with overwhelming evidence proving that a Ukrainian Buk missile system had been used to bring down the aircraft.
Lavrov said in Minsk on Tuesday:
“The results of a field experiment carried out by the Almaz-Antey Air and Space Defense Corporation that produces Buk missiles and the primary data received by radar stations prove that the missile could not have been launched from the area mentioned by the investigation”: tass.com/politics/1006998



According to the following story the smoking gun is that the official flight paths were altered in the week after the crash.

The following is a screenshot from FlightAware, of MH17 on the day of the incident, July 17, 2014.
Notice the flight path along a trajectory north of Crimea.


Below are 2 FlightAware screenshots that show:
1) MH17’s normal route was approximately 200 miles south of its fatal kill zone on July 17th, 2014.
2) The flight path was changed 6-7 days after the crash.

MH17 flight path for July 13, 2014 – in the days immediately after the crash.


MH17 flight path for July 13, 2014 – was changed to the north approximately 6-7 days after the crash.

21stcenturywire.com/2016/07/26/mh17-two-years-on-what-really-happened-and-why/


Vladimir's daughter, Maria Putin, was living in a $2 million luxury riverside penthouse in Voorschoten (near The Hague), the Netherlands with her partner Jorrit Faassen. The Kremlin refused point blank to discuss whether Maria (a.k.a. Masha) was living in the Netherlands.

The MH17 crash resulted in an anti-Russia hysteria. In July 2014, Maria was catapulted into the spotitlight when it was announced on the radio that she is living in The Hague.
The mayor of Hilversum, Pieter Broertjes, called for Maria Putin to be deported from the country and later apologised.

Maria was threatened on Twitter and web forums that called on people to protest outside her luxury penthouse.
As the police provided additional security, it was reported that Maria Putin fled from the Netherlands: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2705308/How-solve-problem-like-Maria-Putin-s-daughter-said-fled-Holland-boyfriend-Dutch-fury-Russia-s-response-MH17-disaster.html
Donald Trump is very cozy with the Rothschild crime syndicate: www.lawfulpath.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1038&start=40#p4587
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MH17 - real, false flag or hoax? 07 Oct 2019 18:33 #40

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Some further information on the matter discussed here, whistle-blowers and millions in reward money claimed but no smoking guns. Carry on.


www.craigmurray.org.uk/forums/topic/mh17-news-in-russia/
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