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TOPIC: Collectivism vs. Individualism

Collectivism vs. Individualism 11 Jun 2016 09:23 #41

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Flare wrote:
The jews are in power of the world, because they are the strongest collectivist group on the planet.

And they are afraid of other strong collectivist groups, as they can not control these.
So therefore they promote individualism by way of 'everyone is special'.

Well, no one is special without a good, collectivist community surrounding them. On one's own, one is nothing. In a group, one is everything.
Works like that in nature as well, and so it does for humans.


Flare wrote:
^ Positive Collectivist dreams (your picture 1) are being destroyed by TPTB, turned into individualistic dreams, and from there turned into Negative Collectivist nightmares. (your picture 2)

People are by nature collectivists, as in the animal-kingdom the rules are the same.

Amongst the people there are leaders and followers, just like amongst the animals there are.

Give the people a good leader, and one could live a dream. Give the people a bad leader, then the people will eventually get to live a nightmare.

The only thing you have to find out now, is that Hitler was a good leader, to see the nightmare we're heading for.
And well... things may look dandy for now over at your place, but once Europe and the US are finished, then the rest is up next.




In fact they are a race a religion a people ... who knows, they
deliberately keep us confused about this and in the end it does
not matter - but above all they are a huge conglomerate of like
minded groups and individuals with one common aim - the most
powerful secret collective that ever existed and thus they were
able to dupe and divide the lesser collectivist groups into submission
and thus they hate the German people, their very antipode, so much,
just like the devil hates holy water or a vampire hates garlic ;)
for showing the world that collectivism, or rather a nation of decent,
hard working, at one with God and nature people can flourish and
prosper based on a purely positive anti-usury concept for the
benefit of all good-hearted, truth and peace loving friendly humans.


This is the reason why they have to spread lies in their hate propaganda
24/7 till eternity, for if the truth is known by the majority of brain-enslaved
people, their evil empire lies shattered on the ground in a second.


This is an ancient and fundamentally spiritual war first and foremost!


If you know what I mean ....


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"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
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Last Edit: 11 Jun 2016 12:16 by PFIZIPFEI.
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Collectivism vs. Individualism 11 Jun 2016 14:29 #42

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rodin wrote:
bd wrote:
"life" is not a team sport.

It is you know!

The natural team is : Man Woman Children - Extended Family - Race

If you refer with "natural" to the 10's of 1000's of years before urbanisation, organised religion and sedentary life I agree but would change "race" for "tribe". A Kazakh and a Vietnamese are of the same race but not the same tribe (they probably didn't know of the other existence). Same for a Mixtec and a Mapuche in the Americas.
The current team is Jews - Goyim - Selfish individuals

That is far too simplistic I think. There certainly is the overabundance of jews in the Elites, but it's evenly so many jews are just as much powerless sheep (livestock) as us.

Selfish and individuals do not match necessarily, although that is labeled a lot. Selfishness (or egocentricity) is not a virtue. Egoism (as opposed to altruism) is a virtue. The difference is subtle but crucial: egoism puts the interest of the individual first (but not destroying that of other individuals, as in free trade the gain is mutual; a win-win negotiation). Egocentrism is egoism + a lack of eye for others; selfishness.

Selfish people thrive in the current world especially because of collectives. Statism as the best (worst) example. In a free market the people who now climb to "the top" wouldn't be successful (as they lack real skills; their "skills" are lying, deceiving and masking their lack of skills) and the people who are creative and (thus) individualistic; innovative would.

Another big argument against collectivism is that is not innovative; innovative individual minds are chained into submission to a pre-defined goal (the "sacrifice" of Hitler's horrible words). The military is another good (bad) example; individuals are not allowed to innovate, yet have to follow orders. Crazy Ape A who thinks he has the right to send Ape B to die for some "greater gain". :facepalm:

That's why successful businesses respect individuals and rigid tight big corporations disrespect it (the classical factories where every worker is just a number, a "robot" -literally worker- in a system).
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Collectivism vs. Individualism 11 Jun 2016 19:46 #43

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But at the end of the day, at the end of your physical life, you are the only one accountable to you. That settles it for me, which is more important, the group or the individual?
Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point.” ~ Chuang Tzu
Last Edit: 11 Jun 2016 19:58 by peacenik.
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Collectivism vs. Individualism 11 Jun 2016 19:57 #44

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peacenik wrote:
But at the end of the day, the end of your physical life, you are the only one accountable to you.
Exactly.
That settles it for me, which is more important, the group or the individual?

There is no group. A "group" is just a collection of individuals, just like a forest is a collection of trees.
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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Collectivism vs. Individualism 12 Jun 2016 12:44 #45

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Consider the conclusion of an article hosted here:

www.cwporter.com/libmarx.htm

Titled: Marxism of the Right
By Robert Locke
Libertarians are also naïve about the range and perversity of human desires they propose to unleash. They can imagine nothing more threatening than a bit of Sunday-afternoon sadomasochism, followed by some recreational drug use and work on Monday. They assume that if people are given freedom, they will gravitate towards essentially bourgeois lives, but this takes for granted things like the deferral of gratification that were pounded into them as children without their being free to refuse. They forget that for much of the population, preaching maximum freedom merely results in drunkenness, drugs, failure to hold a job, and pregnancy out of wedlock. Society is dependent upon inculcated self-restraint if it is not to slide into barbarism, and libertarians attack this self-restraint. Ironically, this often results in internal restraints being replaced by the external restraints of police and prison, resulting in less freedom, not more.

This contempt for self-restraint is emblematic of a deeper problem: libertarianism has a lot to say about freedom but little about learning to handle it. Freedom without judgment is dangerous at best, useless at worst. Yet libertarianism is philosophically incapable of evolving a theory of how to use freedom well because of its root dogma that all free choices are equal, which it cannot abandon except at the cost of admitting that there are other goods than freedom. Conservatives should know better.

Full article at link.


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Collectivism vs. Individualism 12 Jun 2016 15:13 #46

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Flare wrote:
^ Way better than what kind of cesspool we have nowadays.

And the people weren't mindless back then; they knew exactly what they were dealing with in the world.

It was clear for them that democracy didn't work as that system is set up to divide & conquer the people.
So they decided to unite under National Socialism, which is the best and most modern political system ever devised.

However, the Zionists did not agree with Germany freeing itself from their system and decided to destroy Germany for it.

National Socialism isn't the 'most modern political system ever devised' nowadays simply because NO modern political,party of the eight in Wurope has espoused National Socialism in its Manifesto. National Socialism does NOT exist out there to be voted for hence National Socialism can never underpin any elected government in Europe today or any tomorrow either.
What does exist and can be supported are the radical new-right political parties across Europe. Those parties are attracting popular support at the ballot box.
By all means 'big up' National Socialism as an 'ideal' polity if that is what anyone is interested in.
However we do need to recognize that National Socialism isn't a viable option for government any time soon because it does not exist in modern politics so cannot be voted for.
The new eight has done all it can to DISTANCE itself from National Socialism for fear of being labelled as 'Nazis' - which they aren't.
The politically aware on the right are pragmatists who realise that being burdened with the 'Nazi' label would lead to their parties losing popular support.
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Collectivism vs. Individualism 13 Jun 2016 17:58 #47

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Gaia wrote:
That settles it for me, which is more important, the group or the individual?

There is no group. A "group" is just a collection of individuals, just like a forest is a collection of trees.

Comparing people with plants... :larf: :gn:

Do trees actually have brains, emotions and the ability to move around in stead of like humans and animals do..?
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Collectivism vs. Individualism 13 Jun 2016 18:03 #48

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Flare wrote:
Do trees actually have brains, emotions and the ability to move around in stead of like humans and animals do..?

trees most certainly have consciousness.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."
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Collectivism vs. Individualism 13 Jun 2016 18:40 #49

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Have to agree with BD here, not that I have conducted the research, but C Giuliani did a show last week on the consciousness in plants. Very remarkable behaviour.

www.renegadebroadcasting.com/truth-hertz-2/

After an event which caused the earth's axis to shift - plants altered their growing patterns in order to maximise sunlight (best listen to him than a science dummy like myself), but that is just one example.


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Collectivism vs. Individualism 13 Jun 2016 18:50 #50

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bd wrote:
Flare wrote:
Do trees actually have brains, emotions and the ability to move around in stead of like humans and animals do..?

trees most certainly have consciousness.

I know they have, and I've read that they somehow even seem to communicate with eachother...

However, it's the lowest and most primitive form of consciousness and communication, atlho quite remarkable and awesome at the same time.

But definately not comparable with humans or animals, who actually have brains and move around with eachother in order to survive.
Last Edit: 13 Jun 2016 18:50 by Flare.
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Collectivism vs. Individualism 13 Jun 2016 18:56 #51

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I just remembered another example indicating plants feel fear.

A woman raised a plant with love, then a man came in (an experiment) and set fire to part of the plant. When the man entered the room another time the plant showed a negative response (can't remember how it was measured). When the woman entered the room, the plant responded positively. AHHH just listen to the show. lol


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Collectivism vs. Individualism 13 Jun 2016 19:08 #52

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Hm... interesting article...

======================================================================

Dying Trees Can Send Food to Neighbors of Different Species

No tree is an island, and no place is this truer than the forest




By Jennifer Frazer on May 9, 2015

No tree is an island, and no place is this truer than the forest. Hidden beneath the soil of the forest understory is a labyrinth of fungal connections between tree roots that scientists call the mycorrhizal network. Others have called it the wood-wide web.

The connections are made by the filaments of fungi that grow in and around plant roots and produce many of the forest mushrooms we know and love. They bond trees so intimately that the more you learn about them, the more it is a struggle to view any tree as an individual. Forest trees and their root fungi are more or less a commune in which they share resources in a fashion so unabashedly socialist that I hesitate to describe it in detail lest conservatives reading this go out and immediately set light to the nearest copse.

This story stars two trees. They are the interior douglas-fir and the ponderosa pine — hearty and prolific trees that grow over large spans of the American west. The ponderosa pine is my favorite conifer and maybe also my favorite tree. Its forests are full of air and light; its bark smells like butterscotch or vanilla when warmed by the sun.
Read more
======================================================

Well, if this is true, then it seems trees are more collectivists then individualists after all. :)
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Collectivism vs. Individualism 13 Jun 2016 19:29 #53

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Of course the Nazi Baby cannot comprehend the comparison.

It has nothing to do with the tree. A car park is a collection (group) of individual cars. A basket full of apples is a collection (group) of individual apples. A herd of sheep is a collection (group) of individual sheep. Etc.

What it of course shows, is that the term "group" is a semantic concept. It is nothing real, nothing tangible. It follows only from "having more than 1/a handful of individual items". What those items are is irrelevant.

It is possible to group humans according to so many factors that the concept group becomes useless if you want to apply it to other things other than just the factor you want to assess.

If you assess a group of twins (individual human beings born at the same time), your assessment is based on the factor "twin". That doesn't say anything about other properties of those individuals. They can be red-haired, black, limping, politically right, politically left, anarchists, fascists, whatever.

Anything else than considering their common factor; being twins, is useless and you need to make new "groups" based on the other factors. If you want to assess their politicial position, then you end up with dozens of groups and individual twin parts get separated.

What it shows is that collectivism is useless and meaningless. There is no common factor among individual people. Not even twins. Not blacks, not whites, not jews, not commies, not anarchists, not people with two different eye colours, not people with preference for having no kids, not people wanting to play football but not watch it, watch football but not play it, not watch football and not play it or watch football and play it.

Back to the trees. The "solution" (one could call it Endlösung) according to collectivists for a number of sick trees in the forest is to burn them all. Don't discriminate between sick and healthy trees; just apply the "method" on every single individual tree.
The solution of the individualist would be to cut down every individual sick tree and leave the healthy trees in peace.

Now back to humans and collectivism. The methods of the Nazis (as very much collectivists) is kidnapping ALL** jews (and other Untermenschen), put them all into labour camps and eventually kill them (most of them at least).

If an individualist government would be in that same position, it would select the "sick trees" (i.e.: the deceiving powerful abusing mofo jews -the Soroses, the Kissingers, the Spectres, etc.- and chop them) and select the healthy trees (i.e. the normal, hard-working, not criminal jews) and leave them in peace.

Same for any other factor; blacks who are criminals get selected and put in jail and blacks who do nothing wrong are left in peace. Or whites, reds, yellows, twins, redheads or people with 1 leg.

This also means that individualists cannot be against discrimination. Discrimination is the root of our existence; people are different and thus should be treated differently.

What "anti-discrimination laws" state is that "two people shouldn't be treated in the same situation differently". 1) these "laws" are bogus of course because criminals who are not part of the Elites/State are treated differently from criminals who are, for the same crimes, but 2) there is no such thing as "the same situation". Because individuals are different, also the actions of individuals are different. So if Nancy kills her grandfather because he was a pedophile on her, that is different from Mandy who kills her grandfather because he was a pedophile on her. The individual cases are different; Mandy and Nancy are different individuals, grandpa and grandpa were different, they lived in different places, maybe even different times, they had different other solutions than killing at hand, etc etc. etc. etc.

Collectivism is therefore an impossible route. It goes against what we are; different. Always.

** not true of course; the Powerful Jews were left alone, which only makes sense because the Nazi scam was just another "Jewish"/Zionist plot.
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Last Edit: 13 Jun 2016 19:31 by Gaia.
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Collectivism vs. Individualism 13 Jun 2016 20:11 #54

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^ Humans are 'group animals', with leaders and followers... you know... with males and alpha-males and that kind of stuff?
And humans are not plants who just sit at one spot and the only thing they have to do is suck up rain, sit in the sun as they don't have brains

Or maybe you are a plant, as it seems you are lacking brains? :chuckle:

All you are doing is tearing down society at it's seams by promoting indiviualism.
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Collectivism vs. Individualism 14 Jun 2016 02:01 #55

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@ Gaia

Quite funny that Dennis Wise and Sven are discussing something about anarchists, like yourself, in last week's radio-show.

Check this podcast in where they are talking about "half-truthers think the EU and Obama are the Nazi's, it's just that they attribute it to the wrong people and end up in the "communist croud, the liberal croud, and the anarchist crowd who think we don't need any laws"

"Because as soon as if you have anarchy, if then someone who comes in who has a strong system of law and force will then just come in and take over, with discipline"

(@ 28:15)


Would like to hear your opinion on it.
Last Edit: 14 Jun 2016 02:02 by Flare.
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Collectivism vs. Individualism 14 Jun 2016 02:05 #56

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Flare wrote:
@ Gaia

Quite funny that Dennis Wise and Sven are discussing something about anarchists, like yourself, .

Dennis nor "Sven"? have invited me for an interview, so whatever it's in your head that is "like me" is flattering but not about me, the individual Homo sapiens you Australopithecus enslaviatus paint I am.

Bye Baby.
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"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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Collectivism vs. Individualism 14 Jun 2016 02:17 #57

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Gaia wrote:
Flare wrote:
@ Gaia

Quite funny that Dennis Wise and Sven are discussing something about anarchists, like yourself, .

Dennis nor "Sven"? have invited me for an interview, so whatever it's in your head that is "like me" is flattering but not about me, the individual Homo sapiens you Australopithecus enslaviatus paint I am.

Bye Baby.

But can you say what is wrong with their following remark:

"Because as soon as if you have anarchy, if then someone who has a strong system of law and force, he will then just come in and take over, with discipline"

It's basically exactly as I told you a couple of days ago: you are playing right into the hands of TPTB with your anarchist, individualistic ideas.
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Collectivism vs. Individualism 14 Jun 2016 17:48 #58

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Flare wrote:
But can you say what is wrong with their following remark:

"Because as soon as if you have anarchy, if then someone who has a strong system of law and force, he will then just come in and take over, with discipline"

other than the fact that the remark is unintelligible, it is nonsense.
who ever made the statement needs to learn English, if they are going to communicate.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."
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Collectivism vs. Individualism 14 Jun 2016 18:07 #59

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^ Myea, I quoted that piece from a podcast while they were speaking, so I better could have rephrased that I guess.

Anyway, could you explain why it's nonsense?
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Collectivism vs. Individualism 14 Jun 2016 18:20 #60

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Flare wrote:
^ Myea, I quoted that piece from a podcast while they were speaking, so I better could have rephrased that I guess.

Anyway, could you explain why it's nonsense?

you have the idea that all anarchists are 'pussies' that would let a bully take over.
wrong.
even anarchists need community.
if one fucked with my community, they would be very surprised, as we are well armed and very able to protect ourselves.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."
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