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TOPIC: National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism.

National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 03:35 #1

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This is going to be my main thread where I criticize capitalism and libertarianism as the impediments they are to nationalism. Quite simply capitalism and libertarianism are incompatible to nationalism but more importantly to ethnic or racial nationalism that is required to saving western civilization. The only kinds of governments that are compatible with nationalism is national socialism, fascism, and monarchy where I myself am a national socialist obviously.

While national socialism, fascism, and monarchy differ on government all three systems are compatible with nationalism where all support preserving the genetic racial makeup of a population.

First off with libertarianism it is an ideology that doesn't believe in national borders and if we reduce libertarianism to its core it is an ideology who's end goal is anarchism. Anarchist libertarians will look at state libertarians telling them that they're not libertarian enough because libertarianism always gravitates to anarchy.

Capitalism is very incompatible with nationalism because like its cousin communism is entirely international in characteristic where the primary motifs are profit, capital, and the accumulation of material wealth. This is why we never hear anything of national capitalism because capitalism itself is and has always been opposed to nationalism.

It is the very reason why capitalism is very susceptible to globalism and always has been. This is the reason as to why when European western nations moved from mercantilism to capitalism a great deal of the many problems we face now came into being.

If you talk about protecting and securing a nation's economy you're called a protectionist by the capitalists at the very top because in the end of capitalism's goal it cares not of race, culture, social cohesion, or ethnicity. It views all of that as an impediment to profit, material wealth accumulation, and capital. It is the very reason why capitalism has no problem replacing one population with another because under such a system there is no identity of a national citizen where instead there are only consumers or market participants. In order to have a protectionist economic model of a nation you need some sort of collectivist social model of which only national socialism, fascism, or monarchy grants.

In this thread I challenge any capitalist or libertarian how they would achieve a stable nationalist country and show their solutions of maintaining ethnic-racial social cohesion. I won't hold my breath of course because they can't and because I've never seen any argue for such ever.

Once we understand all of that we can conclude that capitalism and libertarianism is a threat to western civilization itself where both are dangerous menaces.

The preserving of European ethnic racial social cohesion is impossible under a capitalist or libertarian model.


"Republicans are red and democrats are blue, neither political party owned by Jewish Wallstreet gives a flying fuck about you."- Myself

"They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work." - Former Russian Soviet dissidents and now presently the American working class.

"We must take from the right nationalism without capitalism and from the left socialism without internationalism."- Gregor Strasser

"We must reject the false dichotomy of capitalism and communism as the only choices for the world where instead we must embrace the third position of national socialism." -Myself

"Globalism, internationalism, and civic nationalism means the death of western civilization where instead we must install an ethnic racial form of nationalism."- Myself

"The United States is a Jewish and Zionist owned corporate plantation or labor prison." - Myself

"Syncretic politics is that taking political positions combining elements associated with the left and right that can achieve a goal of reconciliation." - Wikipedia

"Only collectivism will save our collective plight of western civilization during this crisis as individualism by itself isn't enough."- Myself

"We must secure ethnic racial homelands of European peoples worldwide."- Myself

www.bitchute.com
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Last Edit: 12 Aug 2018 04:02 by Sword And Hammer.
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 04:08 #2

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Public society, a nation, and government cannot exist if you privatise everything. Society is not a private venture or project, society is all encompassing of many individuals living, thriving, and working together therefore society is a collective endeavor that can only work collectively through people.

No man or woman is an island unto themselves, all individuals have to work with each other in achieving anything. To dismiss any of that is beyond ridiculous.
"Republicans are red and democrats are blue, neither political party owned by Jewish Wallstreet gives a flying fuck about you."- Myself

"They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work." - Former Russian Soviet dissidents and now presently the American working class.

"We must take from the right nationalism without capitalism and from the left socialism without internationalism."- Gregor Strasser

"We must reject the false dichotomy of capitalism and communism as the only choices for the world where instead we must embrace the third position of national socialism." -Myself

"Globalism, internationalism, and civic nationalism means the death of western civilization where instead we must install an ethnic racial form of nationalism."- Myself

"The United States is a Jewish and Zionist owned corporate plantation or labor prison." - Myself

"Syncretic politics is that taking political positions combining elements associated with the left and right that can achieve a goal of reconciliation." - Wikipedia

"Only collectivism will save our collective plight of western civilization during this crisis as individualism by itself isn't enough."- Myself

"We must secure ethnic racial homelands of European peoples worldwide."- Myself

www.bitchute.com
gab.ai/a - Support alternative internet media and platforms against the corporate embargo of free speech.
Last Edit: 12 Aug 2018 04:11 by Sword And Hammer.
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 05:09 #3

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The inherent hypocrisy of neo liberal democratic capitalism is astounding, is it not?

Veteran soldiers are guaranteed universal healthcare almost entirely through the federal government but the common citizen is not.

The old boomer generation complains about public welfare but when it concerns the younger generations paying income taxes working to fund social security, medicare, medicaid, and their retirement pensions they're completely silent. Public welfare is only good for them just not everybody else.

We're told that unions are bad for the country especially regarding private businesses but when it concerns teacher, firefighter, police, medical, and government worker unions no one bats an eye or says anything. The message is clear, government unions are good, private unions are bad.
"Republicans are red and democrats are blue, neither political party owned by Jewish Wallstreet gives a flying fuck about you."- Myself

"They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work." - Former Russian Soviet dissidents and now presently the American working class.

"We must take from the right nationalism without capitalism and from the left socialism without internationalism."- Gregor Strasser

"We must reject the false dichotomy of capitalism and communism as the only choices for the world where instead we must embrace the third position of national socialism." -Myself

"Globalism, internationalism, and civic nationalism means the death of western civilization where instead we must install an ethnic racial form of nationalism."- Myself

"The United States is a Jewish and Zionist owned corporate plantation or labor prison." - Myself

"Syncretic politics is that taking political positions combining elements associated with the left and right that can achieve a goal of reconciliation." - Wikipedia

"Only collectivism will save our collective plight of western civilization during this crisis as individualism by itself isn't enough."- Myself

"We must secure ethnic racial homelands of European peoples worldwide."- Myself

www.bitchute.com
gab.ai/a - Support alternative internet media and platforms against the corporate embargo of free speech.
Last Edit: 12 Aug 2018 05:11 by Sword And Hammer.
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 18:51 #4

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"National Socialism" is in reality simply Capitalism with a welfare state.

Hitler worked for the bankers and big industrialists just like All Western governments today, however they realized that the people need a welfare state in order to keep them from revolting, and keep the public happy.

By "welfare state" I mean the public utilities, free education, healthcare, etc. Actually most of this was already in place before the Nazis took power.

FDR in America was also a capitalist with a welfare state which was known as "the new deal" FDR was on record saying that the "welfare state" basically "saved capitalism"

That is all he and Hitler were trying to do.

Now "free market" capitalists and Libertarians are just batshit insane. All they are doing is working for the oligarch class without giving up any concessions to the public, and therefore you would have a public that would REVOLT, which was what happened in Russia in 1917, Mexico in 1910, and in China as well.

You cannot run Capitalism without a welfare state or else it will eat and destroy itself. Most of the elites understand this, yet there are one faction of elites who want to deregulate and destroy the welfare state ie (austerity) and more pure Capitalism which WILL CAUSE CHAOS.

Even Donald Trump who is moving the economy further to the right understands that the welfare state cannot be completely dismantled which is why he said things like Social Security will not be touched, however many of his backers do want to destroy the welfare state.

"National Socialism" is not Socialism, it is simply Capitalism with a welfare state.

Socialism is when the public owns the means of production. That would mean collective ownership of the banks and big industry.

I agree with you though that Libertarianism is complete utter nonsense.

I advocate for a mixed economy, so further to the left of what you believe "national socialism" to be.

Collective ownership of banks and large industry, with a larger welfare state, however with small private business.
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 19:03 #5

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"Welfare" is a typical symptom of a Collectivist Control State. Free men don't need nor want charity. Communities should take care of their own
You can't fix stupid
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 19:11 #6

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Rocco wrote:
"Welfare" is a typical symptom of a Collectivist Control State. Free men don't need nor want charity. Communities should take care of their own

But isn't that just another type of "welfare"?
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 19:12 #7

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Rocco wrote:
"Welfare" is a typical symptom of a Collectivist Control State. Free men don't need nor want charity. Communities should take care of their own

its not about "charity" or "handouts" that is a typical rightwing deflection.

Its about organizing society and communities in the most efficient way. If it costs money for healthcare, you can organize society in a way where the majority do not get much reward for their labour and struggle to pay for healthcare, or you can organize it in a way where things like Oil profits, (which imo does not belong to any one person, but the nation as a whole) can help to pay for such things. This benefits society as a whole.

Private profit from natural resources hoarded by a few does not benefit society.
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 19:13 #8

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hokuspokus wrote:
Rocco wrote:
"Welfare" is a typical symptom of a Collectivist Control State. Free men don't need nor want charity. Communities should take care of their own

But isn't that just another type of "welfare"?

Yes "communities taking care of their own" as he describes it IS WELFARE.

The thing is that the term "welfare" has a negative connotation because it has been used for ages in rightwing propaganda, but Rocco basically just described welfare to a tee using a different term.
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 19:40 #9

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Vancity Eagle wrote:
"National Socialism" is in reality simply Capitalism with a welfare state.

Hitler worked for the bankers and big industrialists just like All Western governments today, however they realized that the people need a welfare state in order to keep them from revolting, and keep the public happy.

By "welfare state" I mean the public utilities, free education, healthcare, etc. Actually most of this was already in place before the Nazis took power.

FDR in America was also a capitalist with a welfare state which was known as "the new deal" FDR was on record saying that the "welfare state" basically "saved capitalism"

That is all he and Hitler were trying to do.

Now "free market" capitalists and Libertarians are just batshit insane. All they are doing is working for the oligarch class without giving up any concessions to the public, and therefore you would have a public that would REVOLT, which was what happened in Russia in 1917, Mexico in 1910, and in China as well.

You cannot run Capitalism without a welfare state or else it will eat and destroy itself. Most of the elites understand this, yet there are one faction of elites who want to deregulate and destroy the welfare state ie (austerity) and more pure Capitalism which WILL CAUSE CHAOS.

Even Donald Trump who is moving the economy further to the right understands that the welfare state cannot be completely dismantled which is why he said things like Social Security will not be touched, however many of his backers do want to destroy the welfare state.

"National Socialism" is not Socialism, it is simply Capitalism with a welfare state.

Socialism is when the public owns the means of production. That would mean collective ownership of the banks and big industry.

I agree with you though that Libertarianism is complete utter nonsense.

I advocate for a mixed economy, so further to the left of what you believe "national socialism" to be.

Collective ownership of banks and large industry, with a larger welfare state, however with small private business.

Keep in mind that I am a Strasserite where I believe the Third Reich wasn't socialist enough but yes you're right by saying it was a centralized capitalist structure with an enormous welfare state. The rest of your post was well put together.

As I've said elsewhere I view myself as a sort of reformationist of national socialism. You might be surprised that I also believe in some forms of collective ownership as well.
"Republicans are red and democrats are blue, neither political party owned by Jewish Wallstreet gives a flying fuck about you."- Myself

"They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work." - Former Russian Soviet dissidents and now presently the American working class.

"We must take from the right nationalism without capitalism and from the left socialism without internationalism."- Gregor Strasser

"We must reject the false dichotomy of capitalism and communism as the only choices for the world where instead we must embrace the third position of national socialism." -Myself

"Globalism, internationalism, and civic nationalism means the death of western civilization where instead we must install an ethnic racial form of nationalism."- Myself

"The United States is a Jewish and Zionist owned corporate plantation or labor prison." - Myself

"Syncretic politics is that taking political positions combining elements associated with the left and right that can achieve a goal of reconciliation." - Wikipedia

"Only collectivism will save our collective plight of western civilization during this crisis as individualism by itself isn't enough."- Myself

"We must secure ethnic racial homelands of European peoples worldwide."- Myself

www.bitchute.com
gab.ai/a - Support alternative internet media and platforms against the corporate embargo of free speech.
Last Edit: 12 Aug 2018 19:43 by Sword And Hammer.
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 19:49 #10

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hokuspokus wrote:
Rocco wrote:
"Welfare" is a typical symptom of a Collectivist Control State. Free men don't need nor want charity. Communities should take care of their own

But isn't that just another type of "welfare"?
Vancity Eagle wrote:
Rocco wrote:
"Welfare" is a typical symptom of a Collectivist Control State. Free men don't need nor want charity. Communities should take care of their own

its not about "charity" or "handouts" that is a typical rightwing deflection.

Its about organizing society and communities in the most efficient way. If it costs money for healthcare, you can organize society in a way where the majority do not get much reward for their labour and struggle to pay for healthcare, or you can organize it in a way where things like Oil profits, (which imo does not belong to any one person, but the nation as a whole) can help to pay for such things. This benefits society as a whole.

Private profit from natural resources hoarded by a few does not benefit society.
Vancity Eagle wrote:
hokuspokus wrote:
Rocco wrote:
"Welfare" is a typical symptom of a Collectivist Control State. Free men don't need nor want charity. Communities should take care of their own

But isn't that just another type of "welfare"?

Yes "communities taking care of their own" as he describes it IS WELFARE.

The thing is that the term "welfare" has a negative connotation because it has been used for ages in rightwing propaganda, but Rocco basically just described welfare to a tee using a different term.
Y'all where talking about "State Welfare" which is just a Collectivist Totalitarian tactic to control the masses just like their latest plans of UBI and Healthcare. I swear all y'all are a bunch of Commie Agitators for sure
You can't fix stupid
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 19:52 #11

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Capitalism, or the free market, is the natural way people do business with each other, visible in everyday life.

The principal difference with statist influence like we have now in crapitalism/corporatism/financial fascism, call it what you want, is the use of force.

A baker cannot force you to buy his bread.

The fact that on a bigger scale capitalism is abused as crapitalism doesn't mean anything for the foundations of capitalism.

The institute state is an immoral institute, driving on the initiation of use of force against people. People have been brainwashed into the idea that a state is "normal", "necessary" or "good", because they have been drilled by the education system set up by... surprise, surprise, the state.
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 19:55 #12

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Sword And Hammer wrote:
Vancity Eagle wrote:
"National Socialism" is in reality simply Capitalism with a welfare state.

Hitler worked for the bankers and big industrialists just like All Western governments today, however they realized that the people need a welfare state in order to keep them from revolting, and keep the public happy.

By "welfare state" I mean the public utilities, free education, healthcare, etc. Actually most of this was already in place before the Nazis took power.

FDR in America was also a capitalist with a welfare state which was known as "the new deal" FDR was on record saying that the "welfare state" basically "saved capitalism"

That is all he and Hitler were trying to do.

Now "free market" capitalists and Libertarians are just batshit insane. All they are doing is working for the oligarch class without giving up any concessions to the public, and therefore you would have a public that would REVOLT, which was what happened in Russia in 1917, Mexico in 1910, and in China as well.

You cannot run Capitalism without a welfare state or else it will eat and destroy itself. Most of the elites understand this, yet there are one faction of elites who want to deregulate and destroy the welfare state ie (austerity) and more pure Capitalism which WILL CAUSE CHAOS.

Even Donald Trump who is moving the economy further to the right understands that the welfare state cannot be completely dismantled which is why he said things like Social Security will not be touched, however many of his backers do want to destroy the welfare state.

"National Socialism" is not Socialism, it is simply Capitalism with a welfare state.

Socialism is when the public owns the means of production. That would mean collective ownership of the banks and big industry.

I agree with you though that Libertarianism is complete utter nonsense.

I advocate for a mixed economy, so further to the left of what you believe "national socialism" to be.

Collective ownership of banks and large industry, with a larger welfare state, however with small private business.

Keep in mind that I am a Strasserite where I believe the Third Reich wasn't socialist enough but yes you're right by saying it was a centralized capitalist structure with an enormous welfare state. The rest of your post was well put together.

As I've said elsewhere I view myself as a sort of reformationist of national socialism. You might be surprised that I also believe in some forms of collective ownership as well.

Strasser and his followers from what I know were killed and exiled from the Nazi Germany.

To me Fascists (which are really a sort of economic centrist, but more to the right) always use socialist rhetoric in order to get mass support, but in the end they will always betray those socialist elements in order to serve the Capitalist class which owns them.

It is a sort of balancing act where they serve their capitalist masters while also trying to please the public with a welfare state.

Socialists take it much further, which the elites will not tolerate.

I may not agree with you on some racial issues, but I agree and am happy that you at least see that Libertarianism and unrestrained Capitalism are not condusive for any society. They do not benefit any society regardless of the racial makeup.

These societies are always to benefit an extreme minority of oligarchs, and then a minority of their lackeys and underlings who make up the upper classes.
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 19:57 #13

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Sword And Hammer wrote:
Public society, a nation, and government cannot exist if you privatise everything. Society is not a private venture or project, society is all encompassing of many individuals living, thriving, and working together therefore society is a collective endeavor that can only work collectively through people.

No man or woman is an island unto themselves, all individuals have to work with each other in achieving anything. To dismiss any of that is beyond ridiculous.

I have another idea, instead of having to work together to survive, we could live apart or in small groups but interact only when needed, then each person can be looked upon and valued on their ability to make things better for themselves and others who recipricate in kind.
We must cut out the middle men wherever we can, because these unless they are part of the creative process need feeding for nothing, and you guessed it, to function like this we need a majority capable of doing things and working out the many problems for themselves, then everyone gets their fair share and say in how things are created and disrtibuted.
INACTIVE
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 19:59 #14

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Rocco wrote:
hokuspokus wrote:
Rocco wrote:
"Welfare" is a typical symptom of a Collectivist Control State. Free men don't need nor want charity. Communities should take care of their own

But isn't that just another type of "welfare"?
Vancity Eagle wrote:
Rocco wrote:
"Welfare" is a typical symptom of a Collectivist Control State. Free men don't need nor want charity. Communities should take care of their own

its not about "charity" or "handouts" that is a typical rightwing deflection.

Its about organizing society and communities in the most efficient way. If it costs money for healthcare, you can organize society in a way where the majority do not get much reward for their labour and struggle to pay for healthcare, or you can organize it in a way where things like Oil profits, (which imo does not belong to any one person, but the nation as a whole) can help to pay for such things. This benefits society as a whole.

Private profit from natural resources hoarded by a few does not benefit society.
Vancity Eagle wrote:
hokuspokus wrote:
Rocco wrote:
"Welfare" is a typical symptom of a Collectivist Control State. Free men don't need nor want charity. Communities should take care of their own

But isn't that just another type of "welfare"?

Yes "communities taking care of their own" as he describes it IS WELFARE.

The thing is that the term "welfare" has a negative connotation because it has been used for ages in rightwing propaganda, but Rocco basically just described welfare to a tee using a different term.
Y'all where talking about "State Welfare" which is just a Collectivist Totalitarian tactic to control the masses just like their latest plans of UBI and Healthcare. I swear all y'all are a bunch of Commie Agitators for sure

you yourself said "communities taking care of their own"

A nation is an expanded community. A state is a community, a regional area, a province, a city, a district, a suburb, these are all communities.

what do you mean by that
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 20:06 #15

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Gaia wrote:
Capitalism, or the free market, is the natural way people do business with each other, visible in everyday life.

The principal difference with statist influence like we have now in crapitalism/corporatism/financial fascism, call it what you want, is the use of force.

A baker cannot force you to buy his bread.

The fact that on a bigger scale capitalism is abused as crapitalism doesn't mean anything for the foundations of capitalism.

Capitalism simply means private control. So people naturally doing business with each other is private control of labour or products.

The issue is how much of the economy do you want under PRIVATE control. And who has the right to wield such power.

Do you want central banks to be private ? Do you want natural resources to be private ? Keep in mind that nationalizing these things will not necessarily effect your and my ability to trade with one another.

Leaving everything in society under the control of a few is a very dangerous prospect, and that is precicely why we have a NWO and why the world is in the shitty situation it is in right now.
The institute state is an immoral institute, driving on the initiation of use of force against people. People have been brainwashed into the idea that a state is "normal", "necessary" or "good", because they have been drilled by the education system set up by... surprise, surprise, the state.

No it is not immoral, just like a gun itself is not immoral. What is immoral are people who use these tools for immoral means. The people who have been brainwashed are those who believe that a society working collectively (GOVERNMENT) is inherently evil, instead of looking at the people who subvert and takeover government using MONEY, as the evil. This type of ideology has been financed by far right billionaires like the Koch brothers and others. They want you to believe "government" is evil, so that it can be deregulated, and that they will gain even more power and influence than they already have. Do you really want that ?

What do you think society would be like without a government ? It would be chaos, and much worse than what we have now. Libertarians and anarchists are honestly quite foolish if they think they would see an improvement without government. There would be nothing but chaos, it is a complete pipe dream.
Last Edit: 12 Aug 2018 20:08 by Vancity Eagle.
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 20:10 #16

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Vancity Eagle wrote:
Rocco wrote:
hokuspokus wrote:
Rocco wrote:
"Welfare" is a typical symptom of a Collectivist Control State. Free men don't need nor want charity. Communities should take care of their own

But isn't that just another type of "welfare"?
Vancity Eagle wrote:
Rocco wrote:
"Welfare" is a typical symptom of a Collectivist Control State. Free men don't need nor want charity. Communities should take care of their own

its not about "charity" or "handouts" that is a typical rightwing deflection.

Its about organizing society and communities in the most efficient way. If it costs money for healthcare, you can organize society in a way where the majority do not get much reward for their labour and struggle to pay for healthcare, or you can organize it in a way where things like Oil profits, (which imo does not belong to any one person, but the nation as a whole) can help to pay for such things. This benefits society as a whole.

Private profit from natural resources hoarded by a few does not benefit society.
Vancity Eagle wrote:
hokuspokus wrote:
Rocco wrote:
"Welfare" is a typical symptom of a Collectivist Control State. Free men don't need nor want charity. Communities should take care of their own

But isn't that just another type of "welfare"?

Yes "communities taking care of their own" as he describes it IS WELFARE.

The thing is that the term "welfare" has a negative connotation because it has been used for ages in rightwing propaganda, but Rocco basically just described welfare to a tee using a different term.
Y'all where talking about "State Welfare" which is just a Collectivist Totalitarian tactic to control the masses just like their latest plans of UBI and Healthcare. I swear all y'all are a bunch of Commie Agitators for sure

you yourself said "communities taking care of their own"

A nation is an expanded community. A state is a community, a regional area, a province, a city, a district, a suburb, these are all communities.

what do you mean by that
Charity should be given voluntarily, not by force of the State. Taxation and Redistribution of wealth is immoral
You can't fix stupid
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 20:12 #17

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Vancity Eagle wrote:
Gaia wrote:
Capitalism, or the free market, is the natural way people do business with each other, visible in everyday life.

The principal difference with statist influence like we have now in crapitalism/corporatism/financial fascism, call it what you want, is the use of force.

A baker cannot force you to buy his bread.

The fact that on a bigger scale capitalism is abused as crapitalism doesn't mean anything for the foundations of capitalism.

Capitalism simply means private control. So people naturally doing business with each other is private control of labour or products.

The issue is how much of the economy do you want under PRIVATE control. And who has the right to wield such power.

Do you want central banks to be private ? Do you want natural resources to be private ? Keep in mind that nationalizing these things will not necessarily effect your and my ability to trade with one another.

Leaving everything in society under the control of a few is a very dangerous prospect, and that is precicely why we have a NWO and why the world is in the shitty situation it is in right now.
The institute state is an immoral institute, driving on the initiation of use of force against people. People have been brainwashed into the idea that a state is "normal", "necessary" or "good", because they have been drilled by the education system set up by... surprise, surprise, the state.

No it is not immoral, just like a gun itself is not immoral. What is immoral are people who use these tools for immoral means. The people who have been brainwashed are those who believe that a society working collectively (GOVERNMENT) is inherently evil, instead of looking at the people who subvert and takeover government using MONEY, as the evil. This type of ideology has been financed by far right billionaires like the Koch brothers and others. They want you to believe "government" is evil, so that it can be deregulated, and that they will gain even more power and influence than they already have. Do you really want that ?

What do you think society would be like without a government ? It would be chaos, and much worse than what we have now. Libertarians and anarchists are honestly quite foolish if they think they would see an improvement without government. There would be nothing but chaos, it is a complete pipe dream.
Any State that raises taxes and has a Monopoly on Violence is immoral
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 20:12 #18

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Gan Anim wrote:
Sword And Hammer wrote:
Public society, a nation, and government cannot exist if you privatise everything. Society is not a private venture or project, society is all encompassing of many individuals living, thriving, and working together therefore society is a collective endeavor that can only work collectively through people.

No man or woman is an island unto themselves, all individuals have to work with each other in achieving anything. To dismiss any of that is beyond ridiculous.

I have another idea, instead of having to work together to survive, we could live apart or in small groups but interact only when needed, then each person can be looked upon and valued on their ability to make things better for themselves and others who recipricate in kind.
We must cut out the middle men wherever we can, because these unless they are part of the creative process need feeding for nothing, and you guessed it, to function like this we need a majority capable of doing things and working out the many problems for themselves, then everyone gets their fair share and say in how things are created and disrtibuted.

Yes you could live apart. There is plenty of room on this earth, so move apart from everybody else start your own community and tell us how it is.

the above quote by sword and hammer is completely 100% on point by the way. I couldn't have said it any better.

Again for those who hate "government" and those who want to be free, go live in the wilderness, create a community. You can do it. NOBODY is stopping you. So put your money where your mouth is and GO DO IT.
Last Edit: 12 Aug 2018 20:14 by Vancity Eagle.
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 20:19 #19

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Rocco wrote:
Vancity Eagle wrote:
Rocco wrote:
hokuspokus wrote:
Rocco wrote:
"Welfare" is a typical symptom of a Collectivist Control State. Free men don't need nor want charity. Communities should take care of their own

But isn't that just another type of "welfare"?
Vancity Eagle wrote:
Rocco wrote:
"Welfare" is a typical symptom of a Collectivist Control State. Free men don't need nor want charity. Communities should take care of their own

its not about "charity" or "handouts" that is a typical rightwing deflection.

Its about organizing society and communities in the most efficient way. If it costs money for healthcare, you can organize society in a way where the majority do not get much reward for their labour and struggle to pay for healthcare, or you can organize it in a way where things like Oil profits, (which imo does not belong to any one person, but the nation as a whole) can help to pay for such things. This benefits society as a whole.

Private profit from natural resources hoarded by a few does not benefit society.
Vancity Eagle wrote:
hokuspokus wrote:
Rocco wrote:
"Welfare" is a typical symptom of a Collectivist Control State. Free men don't need nor want charity. Communities should take care of their own

But isn't that just another type of "welfare"?

Yes "communities taking care of their own" as he describes it IS WELFARE.

The thing is that the term "welfare" has a negative connotation because it has been used for ages in rightwing propaganda, but Rocco basically just described welfare to a tee using a different term.
Y'all where talking about "State Welfare" which is just a Collectivist Totalitarian tactic to control the masses just like their latest plans of UBI and Healthcare. I swear all y'all are a bunch of Commie Agitators for sure

you yourself said "communities taking care of their own"

A nation is an expanded community. A state is a community, a regional area, a province, a city, a district, a suburb, these are all communities.

what do you mean by that
Charity should be given voluntarily, not by force of the State. Taxation and Redistribution of wealth is immoral

it is not "force by the state"

If you want to belong to a nation, you must take part in the welfare of that nation. A nation is a COLLECTIVE. A nation must be organized by principals that benefit THE COLLECTIVE.

If you don't want to be a part of a COLLECTIVE, like I said in my prior post. Go live in the wilderness, build a society and you wont have to be taxed. You cannot just claim the benefits of being in an organized society, and then not contribute (taxes) to it.

Immorality is building a nation based upon profit motives, and not caring for peoples needs. That is immorality.
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National Socialism Versus Capitalism And Libertarianism. 12 Aug 2018 20:22 #20

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Vancity Eagle wrote:
Gan Anim wrote:
Sword And Hammer wrote:
Public society, a nation, and government cannot exist if you privatise everything. Society is not a private venture or project, society is all encompassing of many individuals living, thriving, and working together therefore society is a collective endeavor that can only work collectively through people.

No man or woman is an island unto themselves, all individuals have to work with each other in achieving anything. To dismiss any of that is beyond ridiculous.

I have another idea, instead of having to work together to survive, we could live apart or in small groups but interact only when needed, then each person can be looked upon and valued on their ability to make things better for themselves and others who recipricate in kind.
We must cut out the middle men wherever we can, because these unless they are part of the creative process need feeding for nothing, and you guessed it, to function like this we need a majority capable of doing things and working out the many problems for themselves, then everyone gets their fair share and say in how things are created and disrtibuted.

Yes you could live apart. There is plenty of room on this earth, so move apart from everybody else start your own community and tell us how it is.

the above quote by sword and hammer is completely 100% on point by the way. I couldn't have said it any better.

Again for those who hate "government" and those who want to be free, go live in the wilderness, create a community. You can do it. NOBODY is stopping you. So put your money where your mouth is and GO DO IT.

I have already done it and I have and am showing it, I live in a terraced cottage and interact with others around me, we all help each other and benefit from that physical energy well spent/shared, without needing money for the better part of it, all that is needed is raw materials and skills and interactions, but many who are without these attributes are like bankers without their pens, navigators without a working compass.

Thing is VE, we do not have government but governance the two are completely different entities, my version is self government, the states is governance, never get the two mixed up. One can produce for itself and the other needs feeding for doing nothing but making up rules and laws to enable them to do very little for those they govern.

For the last eleven years we set up a growing group of ten plots on private land, we have a bare minimum set of rules regarding how we treat the area and each other basically and those who do not interact with the others have no say outside those minimum rules unless they interact, and the results are a tiny few having to do most of the upkeep for the communal areas where fruit bushes and trees grow etc, grass cutting and keeping the area tidy, here we have the perfect example of goverment and governance, dedication and non creativity in a very small group of ten.

I always have these kinds of debate with people who have lots to say but no real life skills and or reciprical product to contribute with, some will only spen an hour a week on their own area and nothing the whole season elsewhere yet still want a say in how things are done, but not any more, the ones who did freely the work of the others have shamed them into silence, this is how life works, some will do and work, the others will talk and do nothing to even help themselves.
INACTIVE
Last Edit: 12 Aug 2018 20:36 by Gan Anim.
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