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TOPIC: The "West is bound to repeat the Fall of Rome" narrative

The "West is bound to repeat the Fall of Rome" narrative 06 Jul 2020 18:44 #1

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...I no longer believe in it.
It used to be a very hot topic, not so long ago.

I think the parallel drawn with Rome is clumsy at best, even surrealistic, because Rome was a powerful state of *Antiquity*. At the time even the rulers in the highest places just could no longer control the direction the state was going in. The destiny of their very nation was not within their grip. Compared to today's omniscient/omnipotent Orwellian state and its immovable clamp on the masses, and the flawless carrying out of the various plans to subdue those masses, the ruling class of that historical period feels like some sort of joke. By today's standards, it seems incredible that governments actually had foes to directly contend with (internal or external forces), the risk of being wiped out or brutally beaten into submission by rivaling tribes or nations. They were fairly vulnerable.

With the one world government that is slowly but surely taking form, the collaboration of all the most powerful/richest institutions at the top ruling over anything living at the bottom... why, or how could the West possibly fall apart ? It won't be anything like what it had been so far, that's for sure, but it's difficult to see how it would collapse, or resemble Rome in any way, when governments have never been this powerful and continue to grow. The threat of mass immigration taking over the nations is now rendered ridiculous, they're mere cannon fodder in a grande scheme.
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The "West is bound to repeat the Fall of Rome" narrative 07 Jul 2020 09:02 #2

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agree, they have too much technology and power at their disposal now.

And their propaganda affects people more than ever because of the television.

Although it wont look like the west eventually, at least in a demographics sense, and perhaps more than that... but thats their plan.
I remember the good old days, when 90+ year olds in nursing homes lived forever. Darn this pesky virus.

1365 = 1

1.1365 = 1,283,305,580,313,352
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The "West is bound to repeat the Fall of Rome" narrative 07 Jul 2020 22:26 #3

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novum wrote:
agree, they have too much technology and power at their disposal now.

And their propaganda affects people more than ever because of the television.

Although it wont look like the west eventually, at least in a demographics sense, and perhaps more than that... but thats their plan.
yeah man. The combo of increased experience learning from past history along with super powerful technology has made the elite ruling class untouchable. And far too great a foe for any common man or group. Who would dare abandon their luxuries, even living as a slave to a system, to defy the great big monster ? Worse yet, if someone by whatever means did become powerful through politics and great personal wealth, why in their right mind would they separate themselves from the all-powerful ? To be taken down in an instant ? They would simply join them. Nobody wants to be the dissident Messiah.
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The "West is bound to repeat the Fall of Rome" narrative 07 Jul 2020 22:53 #4

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Too many people with nothing is about the only thing that could threaten some of their institutions and forces on the ground... but theyve got that covered with welfare.

Even with covid testing, they are paying people who have been locked in their houses to take the test... if you dont take the test you dont get that govt money. Same goes for vaccines (if you dont jab your children in Australia for example you dont get child support benefits from govt)

Just about everybody today is Cypher in 'The Matrix' on one level or another...

I remember the good old days, when 90+ year olds in nursing homes lived forever. Darn this pesky virus.

1365 = 1

1.1365 = 1,283,305,580,313,352
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The "West is bound to repeat the Fall of Rome" narrative 08 Jul 2020 00:45 #5

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novum wrote:
Just about everybody today is Cypher in 'The Matrix' on one level or another...



:chuckle:
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The "West is bound to repeat the Fall of Rome" narrative 08 Jul 2020 04:28 #6

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I remember the good old days, when 90+ year olds in nursing homes lived forever. Darn this pesky virus.

1365 = 1

1.1365 = 1,283,305,580,313,352
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The "West is bound to repeat the Fall of Rome" narrative 08 Jul 2020 13:02 #7

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this is cliché but when I was a teen The Matrix blew me away by what an amazing fictional work it was. Now it blows me away by how accurate it is about reality. Some of the dialogue, especially what Morpheus says to Neo throughout the film, is uncanny.
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The "West is bound to repeat the Fall of Rome" narrative 08 Jul 2020 14:07 #8

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Dork Lard wrote:
...I no longer believe in it.
It used to be a very hot topic, not so long ago.

I think the parallel drawn with Rome is clumsy at best, even surrealistic, because Rome was a powerful state of *Antiquity*. At the time even the rulers in the highest places just could no longer control the direction the state was going in. The destiny of their very nation was not within their grip. Compared to today's omniscient/omnipotent Orwellian state and its immovable clamp on the masses, and the flawless carrying out of the various plans to subdue those masses, the ruling class of that historical period feels like some sort of joke. By today's standards, it seems incredible that governments actually had foes to directly contend with (internal or external forces), the risk of being wiped out or brutally beaten into submission by rivaling tribes or nations. They were fairly vulnerable.

With the one world government that is slowly but surely taking form, the collaboration of all the most powerful/richest institutions at the top ruling over anything living at the bottom... why, or how could the West possibly fall apart ? It won't be anything like what it had been so far, that's for sure, but it's difficult to see how it would collapse, or resemble Rome in any way, when governments have never been this powerful and continue to grow. The threat of mass immigration taking over the nations is now rendered ridiculous, they're mere cannon fodder in a grande scheme.

G'day Dark Lord.

What if Rome didn't fall?

The court system is run under Roman law, Corpus Juris Civilis. Kings, Queens and the leaders of 'Nations' all bow and kiss the ring on the Pope's hand. Bowing is done by an 'inferior' to it's 'superior'.

What if the rulers of Rome presented 'leaders' for everyone to 'follow' and act as a 'Punch and Judy' show so that the 'followers' didn't target them when they revolted?

If you do not know who is actually 'ruling' it is a difficult task to remove the 'ruler'. ;)
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.
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The "West is bound to repeat the Fall of Rome" narrative 08 Jul 2020 14:11 #9

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novum wrote:
agree, they have too much technology and power at their disposal now.

And their propaganda affects people more than ever because of the television.

Although it wont look like the west eventually, at least in a demographics sense, and perhaps more than that... but thats their plan.

G'day Novum.

tele = from afar

Now, if your mind can only move towards something and not away from it, then if you have vision from afar put in your mind, what do you think the outcome will be?

The television used to be called an 'idiot box' because it you watched it long enough you would turn into an idiot. :D
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.
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The "West is bound to repeat the Fall of Rome" narrative 08 Jul 2020 14:16 #10

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Dork Lard wrote:
this is cliché but when I was a teen The Matrix blew me away by what an amazing fictional work it was. Now it blows me away by how accurate it is about reality. Some of the dialogue, especially what Morpheus says to Neo throughout the film, is uncanny.

Morpheus : Neo, sooner or later you're going to realize just as I did that there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.

You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.
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The "West is bound to repeat the Fall of Rome" narrative 08 Jul 2020 22:05 #11

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Hey there.
That may true, but Rome also failed to foresee the destructive effects of mass multiculturalism. They could no longer control a state that had become too heterogeneous.
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The "West is bound to repeat the Fall of Rome" narrative 09 Jul 2020 08:39 #12

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Dork Lard wrote:
Hey there.
That may true, but Rome also failed to foresee the destructive effects of mass multiculturalism. They could no longer control a state that had become too heterogeneous.

G'day Dark Lord.

Not very many differences between Rome and America .....

Roman citizenship was also used as a tool of foreign policy and control. Colonies and political allies would be granted a "minor" form of Roman citizenship, there being several graduated levels of citizenship and legal rights (the Latin Right was one of them). The promise of improved status within the Roman "sphere of influence", and the rivalry with one's neighbours for status, kept the focus of many of Rome's neighbours and allies centered on the status quo of Roman culture, rather than trying to subvert or overthrow Rome's influence.

The granting of citizenship to allies and the conquered was a vital step in the process of Romanization. This step was one of the most effective political tools and (at that point in history) original political ideas (perhaps one of the most important reasons for the success of Rome).

Previously Alexander the Great had tried to "mingle" his Greeks with the Persians, Egyptians, Syrians, etc. in order to assimilate the people of the conquered Persian Empire, but after his death this policy was largely ignored by his successors.

The idea was not to assimilate, but to turn a defeated and potentially rebellious enemy (or their sons) into Roman citizens. Instead of having to wait for the unavoidable revolt of a conquered people (a tribe or a city-state) like Sparta and the conquered Helots, Rome tried to make those under its rule feel that they had a stake in the system.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_citizenship

..... even to the point of the Eagle as the standard.

The Etruscans adopted the city-state as their political unit from the Greeks, earlier than their neighbours in central Italy. The Etruscan homeland was originally divided into twelve city-states, but new cities sprang up as the Etruscans expanded their sphere of influence.
www.timemaps.com/civilizations/etruscans/


The historical Etruscans had achieved a state system of society, with remnants of the chiefdom and tribal forms. In this, they were different from the surrounding Italics, who had chiefs and tribes.[citation needed] Rome was in a sense the first Italic state, but it began as an Etruscan one. It is believed that the Etruscan government style changed from total monarchy to oligarchic republic (as the Roman Republic) in the 6th century BC, although it is important to note this did not happen to all the city-states.[citation needed]

The government was viewed as being a central authority, ruling over all tribal and clan organizations. It retained the power of life and death; in fact, the gorgon, an ancient symbol of that power, appears as a motif in Etruscan decoration. The adherents to this state power were united by a common religion. Political unity in Etruscan society was the city-state, which was probably the referent of methlum, "district". Etruscan texts name quite a number of magistrates, without much of a hint as to their function: The camthi, the parnich, the purth, the tamera, the macstrev, and so on. The people were the mech. The chief ruler of a methlum was perhaps a zilach.[citation needed]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_civilization


According to legend,[67] there was a period between 600 BC and 500 BC in which an alliance was formed among twelve Etruscan settlements, known today as the Etruscan League, Etruscan Federation, or Dodecapolis (in Greek Δωδεκάπολις). According to a legend the Etruscan League of twelve cities was founded by Tarchon and his brother Tyrrhenus. Tarchon lent his name to the city of Tarchna, or Tarquinnii, as it was known by the Romans. Tyrrhenus gave his name to the Tyrrhenians, the alternative name for the Etruscans. Although there is no consensus on which cities were in the league, the following list may be close to the mark: Arretium, Caisra, Clevsin, Curtun, Perusna, Pupluna, Veii, Tarchna, Vetluna, Volterra, Velzna, and Velch. Some modern authors include Rusellae.[68] The league was mostly an economic and religious league, or a loose confederation, similar to the Greek states.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_civilization#Possible_founding_of_Rome

Is this the first form of the 'League of Nations' (what is today the United Nations)?

For some reason, the division of 12 reminds me of the 12 tribes of Israel. ;)

Of course, Roman Law had 12 Tables .....

Roman law is the legal system of ancient Rome, including the legal developments spanning over a thousand years of jurisprudence, from the Twelve Tables (c. 449 BC), to the Corpus Juris Civilis (AD 529) ordered by Eastern Roman Emperor Justinian I. Roman law forms the basic framework for civil law, the most widely used legal system today, and the terms are sometimes used synonymously. The historical importance of Roman law is reflected by the continued use of Latin legal terminology in many legal systems influenced by it, including common law.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_law

The word gens is sometimes translated as "race", or "nation", meaning a people descended from a common ancestor (rather than sharing a common physical trait). It can also be translated as "clan", "kin", or "tribe", although the word tribus has a separate and distinct meaning in Roman culture. A gens could be as small as a single family, or could include hundreds of individuals. According to tradition, in 479 BC the gens Fabia alone were able to field a militia consisting of three hundred and six men of fighting age. The concept of the gens was not uniquely Roman, but was shared with communities throughout Italy, including those who spoke Italic languages such as Latin, Oscan, and Umbrian as well as the Etruscans
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gens

Roman Naming conventions
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_naming_conventions

..... with the idea of a "race" or "nation" being a part of the naming of an individual.

Now, this could well be the root of the legal name, or strawman, that the 'sovereignty' movement bring attention to.

So how about this ....

When Rome took over a country, the indigenous people did not have citizenship and had to 'earn' the rights of a Roman citizen. The recognition of this was presented by gaining a Roman 'name' that would provide the rights of a full Roman citizen.

Conversely, a Roman citizen could loose their rights as a Roman citizen and be considered a 'foreigner' .....

The three types of names that have come to be regarded as quintessentially Roman were the praenomen, nomen, and cognomen. Together, these were referred to as the tria nomina. Although not all Romans possessed three names, the practice of using multiple names having different functions was a defining characteristic of Roman culture that distinguished citizens from foreigners.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_naming_conventions

..... and this morphed into the Crown possessed legal name of today with the Roman Catholic Church (Catholic = Universal) as the controllers of the Crown private corporation. Remember, it is the Church that puts the crown a a monarchs head.

Fuck that took some time to cobble together. Really slow internet speed normally and today is raining, which might be the reason it is even slower. Anyway, from memory, precedent can be traced back to the Patriarchs of the Etruscans who wrote down formal decisions. In essence, the legal system of today points to the 'hidden hand' claiming authority. That it is Latin based is obvious with Latin being the b language known as 'legalese'.

Maybe it was ancient conspiracy theorists that coined the phrase, 'All roads lead to Rome'. ;) :D
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.
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The "West is bound to repeat the Fall of Rome" narrative 10 Jul 2020 13:00 #13

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Well that's that. +1'd.
But governments at the time were in a state of perpetual conflict with other nations. A bigger military power, with no affiliation and from a totally different area of the world or even continent, could just decide to invade.
Although this might still be true of a minority of more obscure nations today that still have not been entirely swallowed by the globalist project, Western government is now essentially one titanic monetary empire. The ability for nations from centuries past to build wealth and spread influence was dependent on a high number of factors, which are gradually disappearing in modern geo-politics. For one, warfare as it's been known so far may entirely be a thing of the past. Uprising of the people against elite privileged classes as we've seen through many nation-wide revolutions seems to become more and more fictional because those people are now tied to a slave system that keeps them dormant. And it's no longer even clear who the target would be whereas back some centuries ago everyone knew if they took down the king then all the power would be transferred to them.
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