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TOPIC: What causes War?

What causes War? 22 Apr 2013 17:22 #1

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Do you agree with this statement:
We do not want war; but war can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun.
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What causes War? 22 Apr 2013 20:25 #2

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Maoist #1 wrote:
Do you agree with this statement:
We do not want war; but war can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun.

No
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
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What causes War? 22 Apr 2013 20:42 #3

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Depends, taken literally no.

It's a justifying statement and could be used in tenuous circumstances. It's reliant on the interpretation of war and gun.
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What causes War? 22 Apr 2013 22:09 #4

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War, this monster of mutual slaughter among men, will be finally eliminated by the progress of human society, and in the not too distant future too. But there is only one way to eliminate it and that is to oppose war with war, to oppose counterrevolutionary war with revolutionary war, to oppose national counter-revolutionary war with national revolutionary war, and to oppose counter-revolutionary class war with revolutionary class war....

When human society advances to the point where classes and states are eliminated, there will be no more wars, counter-revolutionary or revolutionary, unjust or just; that will be the era of perpetual peace for mankind. Our study of the laws of revolutionary war springs from the desire to eliminate all wars. Herein, lies the distinction between us and all the exploiting classes.

Our country and all the other socialist countries want peace; so do the peoples of all the countries of the world. The only ones who crave war and do not want peace are certain monopoly capitalist groups in a handful of imperialist countries that depend on aggression for their profits.
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What causes War? 22 Apr 2013 22:24 #5

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Maoist #1 wrote:
Do you agree with this statement:
We do not want war; but war can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun.

Not as such....but, it could be argued that the invention of nuclear weapons has prevented World War since 1945.
The pen is mightier than the sword
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What causes War? 22 Apr 2013 22:39 #6

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diamondgeezer wrote:
it could be argued that the invention of nuclear weapons has prevented World War since 1945.

I don't think there's a could about it. They did prevent world war, there's no way western europe could have stopped a soviet invasion conventionally.

I think we even let them know there was a line on the map that if it was ever crossed we would go tactical nuclear.

I still don't like the thought of them though
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What causes War? 23 Apr 2013 01:14 #7

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I still don't like the thought of them though

No-one (in their right mind) does.

The existence of nukes is what now stops world war though. Even the ruling psychopaths know that nuclear war is a no-win situation.
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What causes War? 23 Apr 2013 09:45 #8

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Maoist #1 wrote:
Do you agree with this statement:
We do not want war; but war can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun.

Mainly war is hurt, and hurt creates hate and a mentality of revenge too the defeated, or repression.

Gun's equal hurt, which are used to defeat or defend, war is a gun show nothing more nothing less, who can out gun the other, there may be great godly objectives but are lost in war.

To the victor goes the spoils is the evil end of a military confrontation not love and happiness from the defeated only more hate
Last Edit: 23 Apr 2013 09:46 by ric.
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What causes War? 23 Apr 2013 09:55 #9

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Maoist #1 wrote:
Do you agree with this statement:
We do not want war; but war can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun.

It reminds me a little of George Bush's objectives, he has essentially said similar things imo. Peace from war.

Some examples:

President Bush's speech to Congress

March 6, 1991 (extracts). This speech has often been cited as the US administration’s principal policy statement on the new order in the Middle East following the expulsion of Iraqi forces from Kuwait.
Until now, the world we’ve known has been a world divided – a world of barbed wire and concrete block, conflict and cold war.

Now, we can see a new world coming into view. A world in which there is the very real prospect of a new world order. In the words of Winston Churchill, a "world order" in which "the principles of justice and fair play ... protect the weak against the strong ..." A world where the United Nations, freed from cold war stalemate, is poised to fulfil the historic vision of its founders. A world in which freedom and respect for human rights find a home among all nations.

The Gulf war put this new world to its first test, and, my fellow Americans, we passed that test.

An excerpt of one of his addresses on youtube:




More excerpts in text: www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/pal/pal10.htm
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What causes War? 23 Apr 2013 10:12 #10

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G. Edward Griffin on Collectivism...



Classical liberal criticisms (of collectivism)

There are two main objections to collectivism from the ideas of individualism. One is that collectivism stifles individuality and diversity by insisting upon a common social identity, such as nationalism or some other group focus. The other is that collectivism is linked to statism and the diminution of freedom when political authority is used to advance collectivist goals.

Criticism of collectivism comes from liberal individualists, such as classical liberals, libertarians and individualist anarchists. Perhaps the most notable modern criticism of economic collectivism is the one put forward by Friedrich Hayek in his book The Road to Serfdom, published in 1944.

Ludwig von Mises wrote:

On the other hand the application of the basic ideas of collectivism cannot result in anything but social disintegration and the perpetuation of armed conflict. It is true that every variety of collectivism promises eternal peace starting with the day of its own decisive victory and the final overthrow and extermination of all other ideologies and their supporters. ... As soon as a faction has succeeded in winning the support of the majority of citizens and thereby attained control of the government machine, it is free to deny to the minority all those democratic rights by means of which it itself has previously carried on its own struggle for supremacy.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivism
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Last Edit: 23 Apr 2013 10:17 by novum.
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What causes War? 23 Apr 2013 12:02 #11

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"What causes War?"


Feeding the wrong wolf.
"The plastic face forced to portray, all the insides left cold and gray...."
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What causes War? 23 Apr 2013 12:44 #12

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"War is the continuation of politics."
In this sense, war is politics and war itself is a political action; since ancient times there has never been a war that did not have a political character.... However, war has its own particular characteristics and in this sense, it cannot be equated with politics in general. "War is the continuation of politics by other . . . means." When politics develops to a certain stage beyond which it cannot proceed by the usual means, war breaks out to sweep the obstacles from the way.... When the obstacle is removed and our political aim attained the war will stop. Nevertheless, if the obstacle is not completely swept away, the war will have to continue until the aim is fully accomplished.... It can therefore be said that politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed.


Who is Gedward Griffin?
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What causes War? 23 Apr 2013 18:56 #13

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What has happened? One contribution and Maoist#23 is purged after an incorrect assumption became a false belief and this belief became an action borne of a willful lie. Such is the way of reactionaries who seek only to quash the revolutionary spirit.

But the struggle will as always continue.

It is good if we are attacked by the enemy, since it proves that we have drawn a clear line of demarcation between the enemy and ourselves. It is still better if the enemy attacks us wildly and paints us as utterly black and without a single virtue; it demonstrates that we have not only drawn a clear line of demarcation between the enemy and ourselves but achieved a great deal in our work.

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What causes War? 23 Apr 2013 20:22 #14

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The greed of powerful men and sometimes powerful women causes war......the less powerful fight their wars for them, but we all know that.
Last Edit: 23 Apr 2013 20:43 by pheony.
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What causes War? 24 Apr 2013 03:39 #15

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Anonymous wrote:
What has happened? One contribution and Maoist#23 is purged after an incorrect assumption became a false belief and this belief became an action borne of a willful lie. Such is the way of reactionaries who seek only to quash the revolutionary spirit.

:larf:

Q. How many maoists do you need to start a revolution?


Anonymous wrote:
But the struggle will as always continue.

Yeah I know, Viva la revolucion and all that. :coffee:
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What causes War? 24 Apr 2013 04:03 #16

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Maoist #9 wrote:
Who is Gedward Griffin?

Ask your mom?
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What causes War? 24 Apr 2013 10:39 #17

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Quotations from Mao Tse Tung

www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/red-book/ch05.htm

Quoting without reference shows a considerable amount of insincerity.
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
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What causes War? 24 Apr 2013 13:36 #18

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It is not to my surprise to be subjected first to underhanded extirpation and then to a subsequent gloating jovial frivolity. Is he a fool or a knowing oppressor? Does this in fact matter?
'This raises another element of the necessity of warring struggle on the part of the subjugated classes. The reactionary lackeys of capitalist imperialism internalise the all encompassing drive for inherent superiority and unaccountability of the ruling class.
We must reject this and turn instead to the constant cycle of self analysis in the interests of our liberation. Only by the process of self-criticism can we legitimately proceed.

If we have shortcomings, we are not afraid to have them pointed out and criticized, because we serve the people. Anyone, no matter who, may point out our shortcomings. If he is right, we will correct them. If what he proposes will benefit the people, we will act upon it.


Taught by mistakes and setbacks, we have become wiser and handle our affairs better. It is hard for any political party or person to avoid mistakes, but we should make as few as possible. Once a mistake is made, we should correct it, and the more quickly and thoroughly the better.


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What causes War? 24 Apr 2013 13:50 #19

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PFIZIPFEI wrote:
Quotations from Mao Tse Tung

www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/red-book/ch05.htm

Quoting without reference shows a considerable amount of insincerity.

Do the words resonate as an effective counter to bourgeois assumption?
Perhaps that is the question you should be asking.
How has your link changed what is said?

Our educational policy must enable everyone who receives an education to develop morally, intellectually and physically and become a worker with both socialist consciousness and culture.

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What causes War? 24 Apr 2013 16:46 #20

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Anonymous wrote:
It is not to my surprise to be subjected first to underhanded extirpation and then to a subsequent gloating jovial frivolity. Is he a fool or a knowing oppressor? Does this in fact matter?
'This raises another element of the necessity of warring struggle on the part of the subjugated classes. The reactionary lackeys of capitalist imperialism internalise the all encompassing drive for inherent superiority and unaccountability of the ruling class.
We must reject this and turn instead to the constant cycle of self analysis in the interests of our liberation. Only by the process of self-criticism can we legitimately proceed.

If we have shortcomings, we are not afraid to have them pointed out and criticized, because we serve the people. Anyone, no matter who, may point out our shortcomings. If he is right, we will correct them. If what he proposes will benefit the people, we will act upon it.


Taught by mistakes and setbacks, we have become wiser and handle our affairs better. It is hard for any political party or person to avoid mistakes, but we should make as few as possible. Once a mistake is made, we should correct it, and the more quickly and thoroughly the better.



No source found for the first quotation. Second and third quotation:
"Serve the People" (September 8, 1941), Selected Works, Vol. III, P. 227.
"On the People's Democratic Dictatorship" (June 30, 1949), Selected Works, Vol. IV, p. 422.

Source: www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/red-book/ch27.htm
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
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