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TOPIC: Drinking clean water....

Drinking clean water.... 11 Dec 2013 15:00 #1

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^I just clicked on this ad that i seen on DIF as a pop up.

Any comments?
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Drinking clean water.... 11 Dec 2013 18:22 #2

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.......... wrote:
Any comments?

Id have to submit the water for a lab test to trust it i guess.

Thats is, have the water tested after treatment to analyse the compounds / dissolved solids that are in it.

Otherwise we're just going off of what they tell us. And people say alot of stuff. :hahano:
1365 = 1

1.1365 = 1,283,305,580,313,352
Last Edit: 11 Dec 2013 18:26 by novum.
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Drinking clean water.... 11 Dec 2013 18:45 #3

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We all know all you need is a Big Burkey and a life straw :rofl:
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Drinking clean water.... 11 Dec 2013 21:38 #4

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I personally wouldn't want to drink water made from sewage, however its been treated.

Much of the tapwater in London is exactly that already however.

At least here in Manchester it comes directly from a reservoir in the Lake District 80 miles away, just rainwater.
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Drinking clean water.... 11 Dec 2013 22:09 #5

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diamondgeezer wrote:
I personally wouldn't want to drink water made from sewage, however its been treated.

Much of the tapwater in London is exactly that already however.

At least here in Manchester it comes directly from a reservoir in the Lake District 80 miles away, just rainwater.

I live in Cumbria... be careful... some of the water round here has natural fluoride in it to start with
Get your water for any of these areas and you really must get a filter that cuts it out.
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Drinking clean water.... 11 Dec 2013 23:44 #6

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This (and the other advert on the Difs about cleaning water, can't think of it's name now) had lots of online feedback about the results.... and how ill they had made people. They were called "extremely dangerous" and "misleading", I seem to remember. I'll try and find some of the links, dots.
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if he undaunted be....". (Beowulf).

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Drinking clean water.... 12 Dec 2013 08:25 #7

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I smell snakeoil.
"I've often felt that dreams are answers to questions we haven't yet figured out how to ask."
-Agent Fox Mulder
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Drinking clean water.... 27 Sep 2014 02:30 #8

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There are many ways for water creation depends on where you live!

Just google for it "tricks to collect water" & "how can I filter water"

Print out the ideas you like.

You can create real simple filter systems to get drinking water even from a dirty river-water.

Dirty water is no problem chemicals are.

Try take a bucket with dirty water and sprinkle a small amount of SALT on top of the water & you will see how quick the dirt will settle on the bottom & you end up with clean water.

Solar Distillation
A small, inexpensive solar still kit that could produce between 1-5 gallons of fresh water per day is kind of the "holy grail" of water projects. The idea is not to use solar panels, since people in a third world setting could not afford them or be able to replace them when they break. Most efforts have concentrated on community-sized projects without much success. We want to concentrate on families and individuals - just to supply enough drinking water for the day. The standard approach is to spread the water over a large surface area in the sun so it will evaporate, then fall into a collection trough when it condenses. That is good, but it takes up a lot of space. It is also expensive and awkward if using glass. We were thinking of the possibility of using a standard lens for eyeglasses (a lens blank costs about 40 cents). The lens would concentrate a focused beam onto a small amount of water, as in a narrow diameter copper tube or something. The trick is to limit the fire hazard and also to accommodate for the movement of the sun. Another possibility is to do the large surface area thing, but with heavy duty plastic that can be rolled up or folded to transport. The benefit to this project is that through distillation, any water source (ocean, brackish, muddy, contaminated) can be used to make fresh drinking water. (top)

Arsenic Removal
Home made biosand water filter for arsenic removalCertain places, like areas of Bangladesh, have problems with arsenic in the ground water. We want to develop an inexpensive cartridge to remove arsenic that will attach to the outflow of our bio-sand filters. We are not chemists here, so we are not even sure how to evaluate results. Having talked with some water treatment companies, we have heard at least 2 possible methods that would meet our criteria for appropriate technology. One is to use a media that contains mixed shavings of zinc and copper (ground up pennies anyone?). Apparently, the dissimilar metals act as some sort of battery, and the metals attract and bind with the arsenic. The other idea is using rust (ferrous oxide) particles. We have read an article whereby people added rust to arsenic-laden water. They concluded that the ferrous oxide in the rust absorbed the arsenic. They then passed the water over a magnet which removed the rust particles from the water. Again, our idea is to put this into a form of a cartridge that can screw onto a small pvc pipe to help remove arsenic as water passes through on the way out of a biosand filter. (top) 

Choose a moist area that gets sunlight for most of the day.
Dig a bowl-shaped hole about three feet across and two feet deep, with an additional sump dug in the center.
The sump should be flat and big enough to hold your container.
Place the container into the sump.
Put the drinking tube in the container and run it up and out of the main hole.
Place the plastic over the hole and cover the sides with rock and soil to keep it there.
Put your rock in the center of the sheet and let it hang down about 18 inches, directly over the container to form an inverted cone.
Add more soil on the edges for stability. 

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How to Remove Fluoride from Drinking Water -- Drinking clean water.... 27 Sep 2014 02:36 #9

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How to Remove Fluoride from Drinking Water
Preventing Fluorosis

By Anne Marie Helmenstine, Ph.D., Guide

Most people are aware that there is a controversy surrounding public fluoridation of drinking water. Here is a list of ways to obtain drinking water without fluoride. In addition, I've listed water purification methods which do not remove fluoride from water.

Ways to Remove Fluoride from Water
Reverse Osmosis Filtration
This is used to purify several types of bottled water (not all), so some bottled waters are unfluoridated. Reverse osmosis systems are generally unaffordable for personal use.

Activated Alumina Defluoridation Filter
These filters are used in locales where fluorosis is prevalent. They are relatively expensive (lowest price I saw was $30/filter) and require frequent replacement, but do offer an option for home water filtration.

Distillation Filtration
There are commercially available distillation filters that can be purchased to remove fluoride from water. On a related note: When looking at bottled water, keep in mind that 'distilled water' does not imply that a product is suitable for drinking water and other undesirable impurities may be present.

These Do NOT Remove Fluoride
Brita, Pur, and most other filters.
Some websites about fluoride removal state otherwise, but I checked the product descriptions on the companies' websites to confirm that fluoride is left in the water.

Boiling Water
This will concentrate the fluoride rather than reduce it.

Freezing Water
Freezing water does not affect the concentration of fluoride.

Steps to Reduce Fluoride Exposure
Don't take fluoride supplements.

Read labels on bottled beverages.
Unless they are made using distilled or reverse-osmosis water, they are probably made with fluoridated public water.

Consider using unfluoridated toothpaste.

Avoid drinking black or red tea.
There are many health benefits associated with chemical compounds found in tea, but this may be a beverage to avoid if you need to reduce your fluorine intake. Black and red tea come from two different types of plants, but both leaves naturally contain high amounts of fluorine.

Be wary of tinned fish and canned food items.
Fluoride may be used as a preservative.

Avoid black or red rock salt or items containing black or red rock salt.

Avoid using chewing tobacco.

Avoid long term use of medication that contains fluorine.
Certain antidepressants and medications for osteoporosis contain fluorine. 


A compilation of...
Fluoride Treatment Methods
The defluoridation methods are divided into three basic types depending upon the mode of action :

Based on some kind of chemical reaction with fluoride: Nalgonda technique, Lime...

Based on adsorption process: Bone charcoal, processed bone, tricalcium phosphate, activated carbons, activated magnesia, tamarind gel, serpentine, activated alumina, plant materials, burnt clay...

Based on ion-exchange process: Anion/Cation exchange resins


Reverse Osmosis Filtration

Activated Alumina Defluoridation Filter

Distillation Filtration

More detail 

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DESALINATOR WATERMAKER REVERSE OSMOSIS -- Drinking clean water.... 27 Sep 2014 02:52 #10

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Should you like to be the good boy in town with a big heart & some spare money >>> do this.
This is for the once with an advanced mindsets...................

Always follow the Money!

Supply your true friends & neighbors with some clean drinking water (should you care more than just for yourself?)

Remember this saying? >>>
"Love your friends like your own soul, protect them like the pupil of your eye."
Bit more of an investment in the beginning.............
but after you did the right thing to your neighbors I'm sure there will be some good appreciating once too & they will share the initial bill together.

I have a good reason why I make this suggestion ................. (love to think economical with many option possibility's from only one equipment)

because the water makers for the household uses to much power naturally by design. (Electrical Power use = Money for your masters Club house)

Don't forget who are the once running the show.

Ok are there people which can calculate a bit? Like 1 + 1 = 2 ?

The home unit from the OP.

Megahome 943SBS Water Distiller Product SpecificationWater Distiller Output: 16 Litres per day
Size: 20cm wide x 36cm tall
Power source: 240v AC
Power consumption 580W (total)
Heater: 565W/Cooling Fan 15W
Weight: 3.5Kg (7.7lbs)
Capacity: 4lt per 5-6 hours
Warranty: Full one year parts and labour
Moneyback Guarantee: Lifetime no quibble 

What's about the 12/24 Volt system working for you 24/7.? >>> Desalinator

A Water Maker for Extreme Conditions
Rugged All Season Watermachine

Cape Horn Xtreme Specs
output with 77°F/25°C seawater Gallons per day 336 (1272 liters)

Gallons per hour 14 (53 liters)

Pump Horsepower 1/8 each

Watt/Hr per Gallon 16

Amp/Hr per Gallon (12V DC) 1.3

Current Draw 18 Amps (12V DC) / 9 Amps (24V DC)

System Total Weight (Dry) 65 lb (29.5 kg)

The Cape Horn system is designed for the extreme rough service typically found on high speed racing yachts. The two diaphragm feed pumps cannot be damaged by feed water intake aeration or by running dry. This versatile system has the option of running on a single feed pump for high efficiency, or two pumps for high capacity. If one pump should fail, the unit will still produce fresh water from the remaining pump. There are no complicated electronics, only simple mechanical controls and gauges. The wiring is also simple, consisting of only on/off electric switching and there are only three modules to mount...two feed pump-filter modules and the Clark pump-membrane module.

The Cape Horn Xtreme accommodates a full range of arctic water temperatures on one feed pump and produces a higher capacity with two pumps when sailing in the tropics.

Production on the low mode (one feed pump) is 7 gallons (31 liters) per hour consuming only 120W of power. With two feed pumps running the machine produces 14 gallons (53 Liters) an hour with a power consumption of only 285W.

Cape Horn Xtreme is available in either 12V or 24V. ........ think using it for emergency while being on the move with your car. 

Bottom line
Home unit ............ no salt-water option!
4lt per 5-6 hours = 6 x 580W = 3480 Watts for only 4 litres = 870 Watts per litre

Marine unit >>> salt-water option & battery power supply anywhere!
16 Watt/Hr per Gallon = 60 litres of water

Is watermaker product safe to drink?
Provided the membrane element is in good condition, it “filters” to about 0.0005 micron. Virus (0.01 to 0.04 micron) or bacteria (0.1 to 15 micron) will not pass and in reality, waterborne diseases on board vessels using only desalinated water are un-heard of.

However, the condition of the vessels storage tank(s) and/or plumbing can be a concern and should be sterilized e.g: with chlorine on commissioning of the desalination system and as an occasional routine maintenance. The desalination system should not be operated in chemically contaminated waters as the RO process will not safely remove all chemicals.

Active carbon filters after the tank and before the faucet are useful to remove chlorine from shore water but do not improve the watermaker product quality. 
Are there additional running costs?

The only consumable that must be replaced periodically are the pre filter 5 micron cartridge, which is inexpensive. If in daily use they should be taken out and cleaned ever 15 to 20 days and replaced if necessary. The reverse osmosis membrane is expensive to replace but has an average life of 6-7 years if the maintenance manual' instructions are carefully followed.

What is the quality of the fresh water produced?
A Schenker watermaker produces very high quality fresh water. The average TDS (Totally dissolved Solids) is about 300 parts per million. Much purer than water from your tap.

Can the system be run when the motor is off and how long can it work before the service batteries are discharged?
Yes it can. It all depends on the capacity of the service batteries. Assuming that the service batteries capacity is 300 Ah and a Schenker 60 l / h system consumes 20 Ah at 12 volt, the calculation is 300 / 20 = 15 hours. In reality the watermaker wont be used for this length of time.

How long will the engine need to be run to replace the consumed energy?
Assuming that a 60 litre watermaker system works 3 hours a day, the consumed energy is 20 Ahx3h = 60A. With a 80A alternator, the consumed energy is recharged in 45 minutes by the engine.

Is maintenance difficult?
Maintenance is not difficult but it essential that it is carried out. Watermakers like to be used regularly. If left standing for 10 to 15 days they will need flushing through with fresh water. This operation can be performed automatically with electronic control or manually. If a watermaker is being used for a couple of hours a day, its a good idea to flush it through with fresh water once a week. It only takes a couple of minutes and doesn't use very much water. During long standstills it will be necessary to flush the watermaker with biocide to avoid growth forming in the membrane. This is known as 'pickling the watermaker'. 

Google >> Go here for more unites: 

If you like to supply your entire neighbourhood

ECH20 Tec Watermaker
New Models for 2008

Echo Tec has upgraded the reliable Titanium plunger high pressure pump to a new direct coupled pump design mounted on silent blocks for an even quieter operation. The new pump comes with a lifetime warranty. The manufacturer is so confident about the durability of the systems, the limited warranty has been increased to three years on all other parts and components except consumables. Also, the variety of the model range has been increased by two high output 24V DC watermakers with a production of up to 32 GPH/120 LPH and a brand new low power consumption AC system line that can be powered by generators or inverters of only 1.5KW and 2.5KW.



>>> $875.00 >> 1 Katadyn Pur Desalinator Reverse Osmosis Survivor 35
Pur survivor 35 desalinator water maker w/ new membrane. This is a hand-powered pump desalinator which uses reverse osmosis to remove salt from water.

>>> $299.00 >>> 1 Katadyn Pur Watermaker Survivor 35 Desalinator

All Products
Marine Products

150 gallons (568 liters) per day
Worldwide use

A Spectra watermaker designed and engineered for the smaller vessel. The Ventura 150 operates anywhere in the world, and the new Ventura 200T is for tropical water applications only. Both are energy efficient, light weight, and self-regulating.

NEWPORT 700/1000 MK II
700: 700 gallons (2600 liters) per day

Spectra Watermakers’ Newport 700 and 1000 MKII, like the proven 400 MKII, are the most technically advanced marine desalination systems available today. 

Why it's Better with SALT!

SALT Service, Inc. is an authorized sales and service representative for the best reverse osmosis water makers and water purification systems on the market. SALT has chosen the watermakers and purifiers they offer for their design, power Efficiency and water Quality. Small sailboats, mid-sized cruisers, and mega-yachts, SALT has experience installing watermakers and filtration systems in all types of vessels throughout South Florida, the Florida Keys and the Caribbean. AC and DC systems start as small as 150 gallons per day up to systems that can supply large ships.

Whether you’re spending the season hanging on the hook, Cruising over to the Caribbean island, or crossing the Seven Seas, having a water maker can mean having your worries flow away. With a watermaker and water purification system, you can stay longer, cruise farther, Save money, and be confident that the drinking water going into your tanks is pure! 


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Purifying Water Using Passive Solar Water Distillation -- Drinking clean water.... 27 Sep 2014 03:08 #11

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Some more simple ideas to help those which are interested in water making & solution?

Purifying Water Using Passive Solar Water Distillation
Passive solar water distillation is an inexpensive, low-tech alternative for pure drinking water without bottles, including types of distillers, cost comparisons, going automatic or electric.

Learn how to use passive solar water distillation to purify your drinking water.

Americans worried about the purity of their well or tap water often end up spending a small fortune on bottled water just to be safe. But bottles aren't the only solution. For those who want to produce their own pure drinking water, passive-solar distillation is an inexpensive, low-tech option.

Passive Solar Water Distillation Solutions
Distilling and reverse-osmosis filtering are the two best methods for purifying water. Both approaches remove more contaminants than activated carbon filters do. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency says only reverse-osmosis systems and distillers may be called water "purifiers." All other systems are water "treatment" devices, in spite of the performance claims many manufacturers make. But reverse-osmosis filtration wastes water: For every gallon of purified drinking water produced, the process consumes 2 to 4 gallons of water. In contrast, solar distillation wastes no water and is powered by the sun. instead of removing specific contaminants, as filtration systems are designed to do, solar distillation purifies water by removing only one thing: water.

Distillation takes advantage of the principle that chemicals vaporize at different temperatures. Most potential chemical contaminants in drinking water have vaporization points higher than water. When untreated water is heated in a solar distiller, pure water vaporizes first, leaving contaminants behind.

A simple solar distiller removes salts, heavy metals and bacteria, as well as arsenic and many other contaminants. According to a paper by Horace McCracken, a leader in solar distiller design, laboratory tests show distillers can remove trichloroethylene (a dry-cleaning chemical) and nitrates. Both are common pollutants and suspected carcinogens. A simple solar distiller paired with a carbon finish filter which removes any residual chlorine byproducts, will give you the cleanest drinking water for the least expense.
Simple Solar Distillers

Solar distillers work by mimicking the natural water cycle: The sun provides energy to warm the water, the water evaporates (forms clouds) and condenses (makes rain) when it meets a cooler surface. Unlike electric distillation, boiling is not required for solar distillation. Some people believe water from a solar distiller is purer than boiled water. Florida Solar Energy Center principle research scientist W.R. McCluney, Ph.D., says vigorous boiling "can force unwanted residue into the distillate (distilled water), defeating purification."

Types of Solar Water Distillers
The simplest solar distiller is a singlebasin distiller—a rectangular, black box fitted with a piece of angled glass sealed to the top. The basin is filled with untreated water; as the sunlight penetrates the glass, the water warms and evaporates, leaving most contaminants behind. The temperature difference between the cover, which does not absorb much heat, and the water surface causes the water vapor to condense, forming a thin film on the underside of the cover. When enough water condenses, it runs down the cover to a collection trough. Simple single-basin distillers work best on flat, level surfaces, and can be constructed fairly easily.

The other common type of solar distiller is the multibasin distiller. Also known as inclined solar distillers, multibasin distillers use numerous small basins to produce a greater amount of distillate during the day. These distillers generally can be transported easily and may be more suitable for temporary dwellings. Due to the amount of latent heat stored in one large basin of water, singlebasin distillers continue producing distilled water at night, and thus are as efficient as multibasin distillers.

All basin distillers have four major components: a basin, a support structure, a clear cover (usually tempered glass) and a distiller trough. Most distillers also include insulation, sealants, piping and valves. Volunteers in Technical Assistance's booklet Understanding Solar Distillers offers a wealth of recommendations for building your own distiller. (For more information see "Distiller Sources" at the end of this article)

The total amount of surface area determines the yield of the solar distiller. Dennis Lemon, author of Pure Water Nature's Way (see "Distiller Sources" at the end of this article), says on a sunny day, for every 1,000 square inches of cover surface, the solar distiller will produce about 1 gallon of pure water. An efficient 4-by-8foot distiller should yield 2 to 4 gallons

With the sun's energy, this simple single-basin, passive-solar distiller can produce up to 4 gallons of purified drinking water per day of pure water on a sunny day. A solar water distiller will make potable water day after day, season after season.

Solar Distiller Cost Comparisons
A study by New Mexico State University shows solar-distilled water costs less than 7 cents per gallon, based on the conservative estimate of a 10-year distiller life span. Quality bottled water can cost as much or more than gasoline. Many American families spend more than $250 per year on bottled water, says Michael Cormier of SolAqua, a solar distiller distributor. Electric distillers, which consume about 3 kilowatt hours per gallon of water, will yield good water, albeit energy-intensive and more expensive, at about 30 cents per gallon.

About $400 will buy a small solar distiller that will produce 2 to 6 quarts of drinking water per day, depending on weather conditions. A larger solar distiller, selling for about $800, will produce up to 2 gallons per day, or 770 gallons per year After just one year of production, that's only a little more than a dollar per gallon. The cost will drop every subsequent year of operation. With no mechanical parts to wear out, a solar distiller is long-lived. A little cleaning maintenance is all that's needed to provide potable water for decades.

Going Automatic With Water Distillers

Unless you've automated your system (discussed below), you'll have to fill your distiller with source water and collect the distilled water on a daily basis. This can be an enjoyable routine or a confounding chore, depending on your lifestyle and time constraints.

Many people use subsystems to automate filling the distiller and storing the distilled water. A simple cyclical timer and solenoidactuated valve can be set to automatically fill the distiller To reduce the amount of electricity needed to power the subsystem, use a valve with a normally closed actuator. Without power supplied to the solenoid, the valve remains closed to water flow.

Besides automatic filling, it's handy to have pure water delivered to your tap. A gravity-fed system, in concert with a rooftop-mounted distiller and a storage tank, can serve this function. if your roof is unable to support a distiller's weight, you can place your distiller on a ground-mounted frame, and a small pressure pump can route water directly to your kitchen faucet.

Care and Maintenance of Water Distillers
As water evaporates in the distiller it leaves minerals and other contaminants in the basins. To ensure optimal performance, flush the system out periodically and keep the glass cover clean.

If you five in a climate where freezing is a concern, you will need to take some extra precautions to protect your distiller and subsystems. Insulate your inlet and outlet lines. Besides insulation, Lemon says gravity is the best protection against freezing. Locate your water-distribution system components and automatic-fill system below the distiller to avert potential freeze disasters. When there's no more sunlight to warm the distiller, an automatic controller can turn off the circulating pump, allowing the water to drain back into an indoor storage tank.

Distilled Water Storage
Distilled water is a strong solvent, so choose your storage containers carefully. Stainless steel (Type 316) containers, and glass bottles and carboys (larger containers) are best. Avoid storing distilled water in soft plastic containers. Many plastics give off toxins, such as methyl chloride, a carcinogen that can leach into water. Design your storage capacity to contain four to five times the average output of the distiller, so you'll always have clean water on hand.

Going Electric With Water Distillers
Although solar distillers are best from an energy and economic standpoint, some situations may not accommodate solar distillers: You may be an apartment dweller or have a perennially shaded yard. Those who still want pure, distilled water can choose from a variety of electric distillers on the market.

Electric distillers work similarly to solar distillers, but rely on electricity rather than solar power. Small countertop distillers, which cost $150 to $350, can produce about 1 gallon of distilled water in four to six hours. Larger floor models, which can cost $1,000 or more, produce about 9 gallons of pure water per day. These units can be connected directly to your water system to provide pure drinking water on demand, eliminating the need for manual filling.

Waterwise (see "Distiller Sources" at the end of this article) also makes a distiller that can be used over an open fire, or on a woodstove, gas grill or stove top. At $379, it can provide up to 16 gallons of drinking water in a 24-hour period. 

A simple way to remove salt and contaminates
from any available water source

American Water Distillers - Rated #1 by FIRST MAGAZINE. November Issue
Dealer pricing Availble - Call for info - FIND a Lower Price Anywhere, Call us. We'll beat it!
Don't be taken for a RIDE! We have the same distillers (different label) and some better for Less!We have many more brands not listed!
WE ARE OPEN 24 HOURS A DAY! CALL NOW! Distiller Expert on Staff

Love Model 3 with GLass Container 3 1/2 hour
$189.00 - $199.00
34L (7.7Gallon) AUTOFILL DISTILLER hot cold

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Solar Stills -- Drinking clean water.... 27 Sep 2014 03:13 #12

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Solar Stills

Solar energy is allowed into the collector to heat the water. The water evaporates only to condense on the underside of the glass. When water evaporates, only the water vapor rises, leaving contaminants behind. The gentle slope of the glass directs the condensate to a collection trough, which in turn delivers the water to the collection bottle. 

Aquamate Solar Still

The Aquamate Solar Still is a great product designed to turn seawater into freshwater.

This Solar Still is inflatable and doesn't need any energy to work at all, converting seawater into freshwater at a rate to supply one person on any given day. Weighing in at just 1075 grams and featuring a compact design, this is a must for any grab bag. The Solar Still also floats whilst being extremely easy to use and utilises solar radiation to distill the impure water so that it's suitable for drinking.

This product has been used by both military and civilian services and will produce 1-4 pints of drinking water per day whilst packing away into a compact package. The Aquamate Solar Still is also much cheaper than buying a mechanical or electrical unit, so is the perfect choice for any yachtsman. 

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Drinking clean water.... 27 Sep 2014 03:47 #13

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hi Mario :) - yes the fresh from salt water is there but I don't think cities will be seeing anytime soon. It's their next extortion racket -.
liquid gold :wissl:
They put chlorine in my water - I've yet to do much about it - I have the Brita but know it's not doing anything much.
Most of these won;t work for those unfortunates' whose water has been fracked :nono:
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Drinking clean water.... 27 Sep 2014 19:56 #14

  • Cinta
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.......... wrote:

^I just clicked on this ad that i seen on DIF as a pop up.

Any comments?

''Water Liberty (Adya Clarity) exposed for deceptive marketing, high aluminum and science research fraud''
This kind of disgusting and disrespectful behaviour is condoned here

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