TOPIC: The Holocaust

Good Holocaust primer if you have friends on the cusp of yielding to truth...

audio download

grizzom.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/the-secret-teachings-radio-1916-jewish.html

Yes, and who was it that said that? Are you as idiotic as The Riddler and in the same headspace as many of the Muslim extremists there? There were many good people there who had a brain - and used it.

And when one is willing to deal with racist ignorance and extremism or parents beating their kids etc., the people who say things like "Spare the rod, spoil the child" get their ego bruised.

I expect nothing different here. You are going down the same path of creating lies and attacking truth with ignorance. Same thing the goons of German 'brown shirts' did when burning books. The Hounds of Hell did far worse to the Cathar perfecti and parfaits. The Dark Ages repression also met an end, or at least I thought so until I see the likes of Jew haters here. Next thing up, I will be accused of poisoning wells and my books will be on the Malleus Malleficarum - a proud day it will be (for me).

I am also happy to see vids like this taken down.

On the Vigilant Citizens Forum (Henry Makow having infected many people with virulant misogyny - as well as the Muslim mind set) we have seriously dangerous ideas being promoted for kids and all to witness. The sad thing is I am the only defender of equality - others say feminism is against an equality. And so goes the war of words between people who are being educated with little moral teaching. Sadly parents and pulpit-pounders ensure a world of intolerance will continue.

"

A short little video about several Indian kids denouncing feminism. Brings tears of joy to my eyes knowing that these kids are walking down a good path when it comes to social justice for humans."

If a reader reads this quickly they might think I am lauding the kids attacking feminism - of course I am not.

Have you heard about saving people? Yep. You too can be 'saved' and live in Heaven. There are many ways to get rid of your demons. You sometimes can choose or buy your way into a different category of being saved. I have no evidence of a price list and I suspect it has a lot to do with the marketing axiom "Whatever the market will bear." I know the Catholics still get loads of "special dispensatory" income and "confessional" revenue for services rendered. That includes estates and wills that are sometimes written by the godly priest for the illiterate Alzheimer's patient. They are after all the only professional exorcists - they claim. All disease was said to be a result of sins and demons at one point in time (before Paracelsus and even after he revived medical science) and the official church [position is somewhat unclear. It is not enough to have the Catholic Encyclopedia as your source even though it is Nihil Obstat and other high-falutin verbiage (or is that garbiage). The local bishop was heard to say the Pope was losing his mind in 1999 when the Pope said there was no Heaven or Hell. This site says exorcisms are similarly in limbo (get it?).

The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel A.K.A Emily Rose - Catholic ...

forums.catholic.com › Forums › Catholic Living › Spirituality

Aug 28, 2008 - 15 posts - ‎8 authors
The Church does not grant exorcisms without being 100% sure of the facts. .... It seems difficult to find an official "Church position" on whether or ..."

The real 'minions' will often be heard calling those who are seeking truth and an end to ignorance - by names that they understand best, because they are those things. Sheep today have bought the mindset of the exact thing society once succeeded in freeing itself from to good end, but the war is not over and I have to admit it may require the new wireless implants to get things back on track.

But let us examine the period before concubinage was outlawed and even before the Church declared all priests were celibate in order to make it impossible for any of their administration to will an estate to a child of their blood. BTW which do you think was first? Did they outlaw sex with concubines after they outlawed sex? Let us go back to the outlawed Malleus Maleficarum and other burning of books (Hitler had learned this lesson as a good Catholic should when they celebrated the burning of books - and his minions saw another use of incinerators later on.). The But before I start putting history into the thread let me add a little levity.

It is not true that those days were much different than today. Yes, during the dark ages the church was a factor but the practice of keeping power and knowledge to oneself or their group has good reason; and existed long before there even were churches. The first law of the Magi is Know, Will, Dare, Keep Silent or Scrire, Potere, Audere and I leave out the Keep Silent since the opening of the atomic gates. Pythagoras and Socrates wrote nothing - not because they had nothing to say.

So why not share power and knowledge? I give you one thing or time to consider. The Cathars freed women to be the equal of men, they had free education and free medicine. Their source of great wealth includes secret trade to the Americas but if one reads my work on Berenguer Sauniere they will find another possibility. So with all this going on you might expect a little turmoil from the average personages who enjoyed status quo. But even with the backing of the Alumbrados (Illuminati and De Medici or Benjaminites as well as Templars) they were burned at the stake and had to flee their land to go to the Balkans as the Bogomils or America later as the Huguenots under the auspices of the Merovingian John Jacob Astor.

When 250,000 men, women and children singing songs to the living love of Jesus (which means The Brotherhood of Man and is a title) were burned by Simon de Montfort and the Hounds of Hell a large number of knowledgeable people got first hand initiation to the second law of the Magi - As Above, So Below. I jest truly.

It also isn't just secrets that need to be considered. Throughout time there have been access to information issues such as do people actually read or care to learn after having the joy of learning drummed out of them by churches or parents who know so little about things themselves. Here is Bertrand Russell talking about Mass Psychology which includes religious seers pontificating and being listened to by the great unwashed.

“I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology... Its importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda. Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions are generated.”

Robert Baird wrote:
I knew this long before I ever heard a 6 year old girl singing "I kissed a girl"....

etc

I get the humour.

But yes, it is also true that puberty is being reached far earlier than is good. Girls are having babies at age eight.

Our inalienable rights programs including bearing children and guns are almost as bad as religious freedoms to be assholes with ignorant opinions.

Robert Baird wrote:
well you shouldn't coz it's tragic

Deanna Spignola interviews Denis Wise on The Greatest Story Never Told.

For our members of German and "German" descent
and especially for all those who have a good command
of German for other reasons.










Video by the Swiss sovereign Heinz Christian Tobler.




.

rodin wrote:
If I did not get the humour I might even think the SPECIAL NEEDS THREE (sometimes four) were something more than skinhead insecure babies.

Hoaxaco$t goes keystone cops:

The woman who “slid down the chute” into an Auschwitz gas chamber

Does anyone else find these eyewitness accounts risible?

source

furtherglory.wordpress.com/2012/01/16/the-woman-who-slid-down-the-chute-into-an-auschwitz-gas-chamber/

just a few snippets here more at link

and another eyewitness whose veracity cannot be questioned in 16 countries states the following:

This suuggests that Zyklon B made hissing sounds when in action. Note that there is no mention of pellets coming down from o high through 4 non-existent holes in the roof of the Krema.

We need more story tellers like these in order to warn the world about the evil NSDAPers

Above all we need people to exercise critical thinking

Cameron, The Holocaust and Forgetfulness



January 28, 2016 / Gilad Atzmon


www.gilad.co.uk/writings/2016/1/28/cameron-the-holocaust-and-forgetfulness


Ref.:

- truth-zone.net/forum/anthropology/66410-judaism-israel-and-chosenness-by-gilad-atzmon.html

- truth-zone.net/forum/finance-and-economics/63691-who-owns-britain-s-land.html?start=20#148857

.

More chinks in the farceade (sic)

theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2016/01/26/us-rapper-downplays-holocaust-suggests-listeners-read-david-irving/

Oh my

With reference to the reference to rhyme. Where is the rhyme? I thought jews were linguistic geniuses.

They better destroy the goyim fast, otherwise their dream of world power will become their nightmare as more people (with the exception of some here and on the other forum) wake up to their lies, machinations, cowardice, hypocrisy, malevolence, gangsterism, bullying, psychological projection, theft, terrorism, murder, gefillte fish, and disproportionate represenation in the echelons of power and influence.

It seems that they are not that prominent in the banking and financial sectors (unless it should read baking sector?)

Ownership as stated publicly - need not reflect reality. - Voltaire.

reluctant but necessary clarification:

I refer to the elite members of the tribe (and to those low echelon members in the tribe who are aware of this criminal behaviour and who do not speak out).

NB

The following mp3 is for HATERS only, plus neo-nazis, xenophobes, racists and anti-semites.
Ideologues need not listen - truth can induce cognitive dissonance. Plus the guest has strong massachussets white accent -and is opposed to illegal immigration - so he is a nasty white guy.



www.redicecreations.com/radio/2016/01/RIR-160129.php

Dear all,

my first real contribution to Truth Zone, after my introduction.

I am reading this topic, one of the most popular ones on the forum, and reached 1/3 (page 32). In the first third I must say it's more a play with trolls/shills as Cousin_Frothy (previously known as Blue_Tackler) than a thorough review of all the materials although some good points have been made:

• The photo fakery shows how the perpetrators have played this out. Excellent post by Oracle.
• Another great contribution imho is the debunking by Orangeaid of the ridiculously MH17 passport clean "tile with Star of David", allegedly "found" by the woman working in Treblinka.

Now reading the 3rd third (page 64 and onwards) and there luckily the content is much better:

• Lizzy making a good reference to the below linked David Cole
  
• Orangeaid presenting us Paul Eisen with an honest confession of having become a "Holocaust denier" - although denying something that doesn't happen cannot be denial
  
• More Paul Eisen as linked by Voltaire
  
• Good to see there is actual public protest against the holocaust, by Orangeaid again
  
• Mario informing us of the war by jewish banksters against Germany, that should have been responded to with a similar attack to the culprits, not deporting innocent others, just because they are also jewish...
  
• A great question posted by Mario again; could the Allies actually have bombed the camps, especially Auschwitz to have prevented more disaster?
  
• Posts by Mario on the relation of the nazi regime with US American companies; Ford - 1
  
• Ford - 2
  
• PFIZIPFEI links already some great videos I listed before reading this below
  
• Mein Kampf review by Mario
  
• Oracle linking Sylvia Stolz
  
• More Sylvia Stolz linked by PFIZIPFEI
  
• "Entire Western World culpable of Holocaust" linked by Zorro
  
• Zorro linking the "Germany must perish" video
  
• "Disappointment" from Israel for a Thai holocaust "denier" presented by Orangeaid - 1
  
• Part 2 with video
  
• Video about Buchenwald presented by Zorro
  
• The Anne Frank Diary Fraud by Orangeaid
  
• Majdanek gas chamber hoax by Cinta
  
• Orangeaid presenting "the most famous photo" of the holocaust a fraud

Still, questions remain; the massacres performed outside of the camps. That the holocaust story is falsified is clear now, but what about the other attacks? Linked by Cinta:

• Distomo Massacre - Greece - June 1944
  
• Kalavryta Massacre - Greece - December 1943
  
• Lidice Massacre - Czechoslovakia - May 1942
  
• Kragujevac Massacre - Yugoslavia - October 1941
  
• Lietukis Massacre - Lithuania - June 1941

====================================================

I am quite new to this vast topic of research but wanted to share some videos I found really inspiring, my apologies if (like the Treblinka hoax doc) they are already shared before, but information doesn't age.

Shlomo Sand
Professor at the university of Tel Aviv, a jew himself (don't start jumping now, Jewspiracists, listen to him; he brings wisdom) and a historian who does not believe in something like "the Jewish People/Race". I found his style and intellectualism very interesting.




David Cole
Another jew, but again; don't stagger, he is already well known here as I saw some pieces already. He debunked the gas chambers in Auschwitz and Majdanek and had a great "debate" with some exterminationists in a US show (second link).






Germar Rudolf
Good to see scientists taking up this heavy and unfortunately punishable topic. Smart guy.



The Treblinka Archeology Hoax
Excellent video on the impossibilities of 700-900.000 (!) murdered people in Treblinka.




Ursula Haverbeck explains her thoughts (and gets jailed for it!)



More videos by various authors

On top of this I did a bit of Excelling in the meantime based on this post (by Oracle again) about the numbers of jews worldwide (1933, 1938 and 1948) and the number of deaths the Red Cross listed in 1983 (again thanks to Oracle).

The magical 6 million figure is not only already debunked by Auschwitz itself in 1989 (6 - 2.9 should be 3.1 according to my calculator), but is also clearly exaggerated. The Red Cross number I see as too low; it would be the minimum death count for the camps listed). The truth will be never approached (at most asymptotically), but should lie somewhere in between those astronomical figures.



The first problem arises when adding up the numbers for the different countries, grouping them per continent and then comparing them again with the totals listed. The 1933 SUMMED are the summed individual countries grouped per continent and the 1933 TOTALS are the numbers given in the data sheet for each continent apart. You see that for the continent we focus our energies on; Europe, there's an offset of 270.000+ jews (yellow box).

The other yellow boxes indicate sharp increases in the number of jews. The Asia box is quite clear; the mass immigration into Palestine during the years 1933-1938. Surprisingly enough that same increase is not there in the years just before the foundation of the state of Israel...

On the right you see how it evolves through time; the lack of a sharp increase in North American jews is another sign the data cannot be trusted; many jews should have fled there. After all Hollywood and NASA and the "respected" scientific institutes are filled with jews in the US...

Also shown is the sharp decline in the number of South American jews (1938-1948), while we would expect that not only nazis, but also jews fled to that region of the world...




Here I've listed all the countries which had 40,000+ jews in 1933 (around 97% of all jews in the world -according to the source- come from those 36 countries). From the numbers it is clear that this source is unreliable. In yellow is indicated the countries where the number of 1933 was exactly the same as in 1938, as if no new jews were born, none died, nobody immigrated or emigrated.
In green you see the precise figures; so the monitoring must have been very exact.
The black boxes therefore indicate the numbers I have to discard as unreliable; if in 1933 an exact (to the single person) number was available and that number is exactly repeated 5 years later, the data is corrupt.

What is also visible is the migration of jews already before the war; 1933-1938. Some countries received jews (absolutely) and some lost them (due to emigration mostly).

Finally the number and percentage of jews I would discard in a proper analysis; adding up to a 27 % figure.

My conclusion from this is that those data sheets are an unreliable source, for both "camps". The data is not good enough to use to back-up the argument that "6 million" died or "hardly anybody, 'cause look; the numbers don't decrease!". Better not use this; there are enough strong arguments against the official story.



Next is the data sheet of the Red Cross. What I've done is comparing the numbers for each camp (sourced by Wiki and a Polish picture of the deaths in each camp) with the figures of the Red Cross. Also shown is the time the camps were operating, some already very early in different forms, but it gives an idea how many deaths per month according both the minimum Red Cross figures and the ones from the Holocaust Story were needed to reach those.

The deviation between the Red Cross deaths and the "official story" ones is shown with colored boxes. Only Theresienstadt and Flossenbürg come close if the Red Cross numbers really do support the "official" death count; most camps, especially those "liberated" (rather re-occupied) by the Red Army (SU) highly deviate. It could indicate the Red Cross was not paying attention or that the numbers are highly exaggerated, where the truth would be more inclined to the latter, I'd say...

I will continue reading the topic, in the meantime I am curious to see your views on this.

Long story short :

Hollywoodcaust : Filmed by hollywood directors

Red Cross numbers tally with Jewish population statistics before and after WW2, until the numbers were ludicrously massaged

Jim Rizoli is a cofounder, producer and interviewer of the League of Extraordinary Revisionists, a series of discussions with key figures in the revisionist movement, as well as unsung heroes and German survivors of the Allied atrocities. Prior to this project, Jim and his brother, Joe, formed Concerned Citizens and Friends of Illegal Immigration Law Enforcement (CCFIILE), an organization dedicated to alerting the public and addressing the overwhelming problems associated with illegal immigration.

In this discussion, Jim recounts how his activism that was geared towards immigration issues in his town of Framingham, Massachusetts, a notorious gateway for illegals, led him to the case of Ernst Zündel in Canada, a German publisher prosecuted for having reprinted the pamphlet, “Did 6 Million Really Die?” Jim talks about his run-ins with the ADL and SPLC once he and CCFIILE were picked up on the anti-Semitic radar for producing cable TV shows dealing with the holocaust, earning him a reputation for being a hate group ringleader. Jim explains the big issues of the official holocaust story that stood out for him and what prompted him to investigate the peculiar details of supposed concentration camp gas chambers at the Auschwitz complex. We discuss the Russian renovations of the camps after WWII that were the finishing touches on the concocted story of 4 million prisoner lives taken at the hands of evil Germans. We also get into the some of the outrageous survivor claims and testimonies that have perpetuated the wartime horror stories that gave the camps such sinister reputations. Further, Jim details the logistics of crematoriums that were operating to manage the body counts from colossal typhus outbreaks, starvation, and Allied Forces bombing campaigns, among other war atrocities.

In the members’ segment, we go deeper into the particulars of mass human extermination and body disposal, which in reality was oddly inefficient considering the capabilities of sophisticated German engineering. Jim talks about Treblinka, a fabricated concentration camp that is tied in with some of the most shocking and mind boggling accounts of the holocaust chronicle. We consider the false figures and perpetual lies that have made it possible for Jewish holocaust survivors to reap tremendous financial rewards, incentives that are protected by increasing hate speech laws and the threat of being blacklisted for holocaust denial. Jim gets into the story of the alleged “architect of the Nazi holocaust,” Adolf Eichmann, and other defendants in the Nuremberg trials that were likely mentally tortured and threatened in exchange for their amenable testimonies. Later, Jim describes the revolutionary work of the League of Extraordinary Revisionists, and then we shift gears to the current immigration catastrophe that is changing the face of Europe and the US.

For sure those old time Nazis were perfect gentleman when it came to Jews, Gypsies, Gay people and the handicapped.
Sounds like the Nazis treated everyone equally fairly and that nobody at all had a hard time of it when old Adolf and his mates were running the show.
Personally, I'm not convinced but - believers gotta believe.

Why did Elie Wiesel and countless other Jews survive the Holocaust if it was the intention of the Third Reich to eliminate every Jew they got their hands on? Elie was a prisoner for several years; other Jews survived even longer. Most of these "survivors" were ordinary people who did not have any unique expertise that the Germans could have exploited for their war effort. There was no logical reason for them to be kept alive. The very existence of more than a million survivors even today, some sixty years later, contradicts one of the basic components of the Holocaust, i.e., that the Germans had a policy to eliminate every Jew they got their hands on.

Why is there no mention of the Holocaust in Churchill's six-volume History of the Second World War or the wartime memoirs of either De Gaulle or Eisenhower or any other lesser luminaries who wrote about the Second World War? Keep in mind all these were written years after the war ended and thus after the Holocaust had been allegedly proven by the Nuremberg Trials. With regard to the Holocaust, the silence of these "conoscenti" is deafening!

What was an inmate infirmary (and a brothel) doing in Auschwitz if in fact it was a death camp?

Why would the Germans round up Jews from their far-flung empire, thereby tying up large numbers of personnel and rolling stock, while fighting a war on two fronts, to deliver people to "death camps" hundreds of miles away who were then executed upon arrival? Wouldn't a bullet on the spot have appealed to the legendary German sense of efficiency?

Why after sixty years have historians not been able to come up with a single German document that points to a Holocaust? Should we believe the likes of Raul Hilberg that in the place of written orders there was an "incredible meeting of the minds" by the literally tens of thousands of people who would have had to coordinate their actions in order to carry out an undertaking of this magnitude?

How come it is still insisted upon that six million Jews were killed when the official Jewish death toll at Auschwitz, the flagship of the Holocaust gulag, from an immediate post-war figure of 3 million to a figure of somewhat less than one million? Why do many respond to this observation by saying "what's the difference if it was six million or one million." The answer is that the difference is five million. Another difference is that saying so can get you three years in an Austrian jail. Just ask David Irving!

All of Germany's wartime codes were compromised including the ones used to send daily reports from Auschwitz to Berlin. The transcripts of these messages make no mention of mass executions or even remotely suggest a genocidal program in progress. Furthermore it has been insisted that the Germans used a kind of euphemistic code when discussing their extermination program of the Jews, e.g., final solution, special treatment, resettlement, etc. Why was it necessary for them to use such coded euphemisms when talking to each other unless they thought their codes had been cracked by the Allies?

The watertable at Auschwitz lies a mere 18 inches below the surface which makes claims of huge burning pits for tens of thousands of bodies untenable.

Initially, claims were made that mass executions in homicidal gas chambers had taken place in camps located within the boundaries of the old Reich, e.g., Dachau, Bergen-Belsen. "Evidence" to that effect was every bit as compelling as what was offered for other camps, located in occupied Poland, yet without explanation in the early sixties we were told that this was not the case and that all the "death camps" were located in the east, i.e., Poland outside (some would say conveniently) of the probing eyes of Western scholars.

No one has been able to reconcile the eyewitness accounts that personnel entered the gas chambers after twenty minutes without any protective gear and the fact that Zyclon B was a "time-release" fumigant that would have had a lethal capability for at least another twenty-four hours. And that even after twenty-four hours the corpses would have remained sufficiently contaminated by the hydrogen cyanide gas that they would have had the capacity to kill anyone who touched them who was not wearing protective gear.

Why do we no longer hear the claims that the Germans manufactured soap, lamp shades and riding britches from the bodies of dead Jews? Could it be that in light of modern forensics and DNA knowledge that these claims are totally untenable?

Why do we no longer hear claims that huge numbers of Jews were exterminated in massive steam chambers or electrocuted on special grids? "Evidence" of this was presented at Nuremberg. Evidence that sent men to the gallows.

Elie Wiesel has been described as the "Apostle of Remembrance" yet in his memoir, "Night," which deals with his stay at Auschwitz, he makes no mention of the now infamous homicidal gas chambers. Isn't this a bit like one of the gospels making no mention of the cross?

Virtually every survivor who was examined at Auschwitz says he or she was examined by Dr. Joseph Mengele.

According to survivor testimony, hundreds of thousands of Jews were executed at Treblinka and then buried in mass graves in the surrounding area. Why is it that extensive sonar probing of these burial grounds reveals that this final resting place for Holocaust victims has remained undisturbed since at least the last ice age?

"Proof" of the Holocaust rests largely on survivor testimony; there is little if any hard evidence. The best of this has been described by Jean Claude Pressac as merely "criminal traces." Even Judge Grey who presided at the Irving-Lipstadt trial commented that he was surprised the evidence pointing to the Holocaust was "extremely thin." To paraphrase Arthur Butz, "a crime of this magnitude would have left a mountain of evidence. Where is it? There was more hard evidence found against OJ Simpson at his trial and he was found innocent!"

Why has Holocaust Revisionism been criminalized in at least eleven countries? What other historic truth needs the threat of prison or the destruction of one's career to maintain itself? Should someone be sent to prison for expressing skepticism about the official Chinese claim that they suffered thirty-five million dead in World War II?

Why do the court historians insist that "denying the Holocaust" is like denying slavery or saying the earth is flat, when it is nothing of the sort? The leading Revisionists are first-rate scholars who hold advanced degrees from the world's leading universities. Is there anyone comparable among those who would say the earth is flat or that slavery never existed?

Promoters of the Holocaust have expressed concern about remembering the Holocaust once the last survivors die. Why haven't Civil War historians expressed similar concerns since the last survivor of that conflict died in 1959?

Survivors of the Holocaust testified that smoke billowed from the crematoria as they consumed the bodies of murdered victims. Some eyewitnesses even claimed they could detect national origins by the color of the smoke. How can this be reconciled with the fact that properly operating crematoria do not emit smoke of any color?

According to the offical version of the Holocaust hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews were rounded up in mid-1944 and sent to Auschwitz, where most were gassed immediately upon arrival and their bodies disposed of by burning in huge open air pits using railroad ties and gasoline. Why is there no evidence of these huge funerary pyres in the high resolution surveillance photos taken by Allied aircraft who were overflying the camp on a daily basis? Furthermore, why have no remains been found, since open pit burning, even when gasoline is used, generates insuffienct heat to totally consume a body?

All of the liberated camps were littered with corpses; is there a single autopsy report or any other forensic evidence that shows that even a single death was as a consequence of poison gas?

The death toll for the Holocaust lies exclusively on population statistics provided by Jewish sources; has any independent demographic study been produced that shows that 6 million Jews were "missing" at the end of the war?

Why do the wartime inspection reports of the camps made by the International Red Cross contain no references to mass executions? It strains credulity that such monumental crimes could be hidden. The only explanations are that these crimes were not occurring or that the Red Cross was complicit in a cover-up.

Why has there been no effort to respond to the Leuchter report?

"The Holocaust was technically possible because it happened." Why is this intellectually bankrupt argument, which turns scholarship on its head, considered by the promoters of the Holocaust as historical truth, considered a sufficient response to the mounting Revisionist evidence to the contrary?

What other historical truths rely to the extent that the Holocaust does rely on eyewitness testimony, and why have none of these eyewitnesses every been cross examined?

According to the official version of the Holocaust, the Jews remained ignorant of their fate until the very end, so skillful were their Nazi murders in deceiving their victims. How can this ignorance be reconciled with the fact that the Jews have historically been as a group the most literate and highly informed people on the planet with legendary access to the highest levels of government?
the-militant-atheist.org/problems-with-the-holocaust.html

I have not yet read the 'everything in WW2 was a lie' thread yet and I have not read this thread other than the previous couple of posts but to be simplistic, would it be on the accurate side to say that Jews in Germany were seen as a very real threat because of the threat of communism, the takeover of Russia, the hordes of communists popping up in Germany, the war that had been declared by Jews against Germany, the power that high ranking Jews had in industry, media, education, business, banking etc.. over the country in relation to the percentage of the number of Jews that actually existed, how elitist Jews were prospering at the expense of the general population of Germans at a time when they were suffering under undue hardship as a result partly of monstrous reparations they were expected to pay as a result of WW1 that was also a result of Jewish influence etc.

So lets say the Jews were not trusted, at all, by the majority of Germans, the goal was to tighten the noose over a period of time, make it uncomfortable for them to want to stay, the rich, influential and elitist Jews saw the writing on the wall, saw that the tide had turned and got out while they could with little to no difficulty, others who took their time, did not want to leave or did not have the means were eventually rounded up to be sent to temporary work camps. A certain percentage of those rounded up were a genuine threat to Germany, were communists etc... while others were caught up under the tide of suspicion that was very real and based on actual threat yet not all were guilty of anything other than being Jewish in a time and place when it was dangerous to be considering all of the circumstances.

There were no gas ovens, life in the work camps varied depending on who was in charge, some of the camps were fairly well run or run with as much fairness and efficiency as could be managed in those difficult times with the health considerations of the workers and their overall well being taken care of as well as could be expected. Other work camps were not as well run and there were those camps where officers in charge were not only abusive, but murderous (which ended up being investigated). It was not all black and white, there was much grey going on as well in terms of behavior.

Some of the Jews who wanted favor in the camps sought positions of authority within the camps over their fellow workers and abused that authority and their fellow workers while giving themselves extra food and decision making power to the detriment of those around them etc...
Sometimes it is those who behave the worst who end up surviving because they will survive at all cost, including at the cost of others.

People in communist countries in rural areas during the war washed the uniforms of German soldiers in exchange for food because they were starving and nothing except food was of any value. They put the uniforms on long polls into wash basins as the uniforms were full of lice and filthy as well as the stench was almost unbearable. (I was told this by an elderly woman who did this very thing)

German soldiers were appalled at all the destroyed and burned down churches they came upon, churches destroyed under communism.

Schindler saved Jews but he was also secretly funding the Zionist cause to the tune of large sums of money secretly delivered.

War is hell and there is absolutely no doubt that millions of Germans suffered unfairly and horrifically. No, there were no gas ovens, the holocaust didn't happen but a large amount of Jews and non-Jews were rounded up into work camps, what the numbers were was perhaps in the hundred thousand range or hundreds of thousands, certainly not six million as has already been exposed as a lie.

People are people and when it comes to war and the books I have read about it... to be frank.. there are people on ALL sides who behave atrociously. Rape, murder, stealing, betrayal, lies...... the worst things are what people are willing to do amidst the confines of war... the sense of entitlement of some as well as the primitive need to survive sometimes at the cost of all sense of humanity, but to continue..

Supply lines were eventually cut off by the allies so the shortage of food set in, disease set in, typhus, starvation, many in the work camps died horrific deaths and that is a tragedy, that is why I don't call it the 'holohoax', because even though the 'holocaust' gas oven thing is a massive lie the truth is many people suffered and died horrific deaths in those camps due to typhus and starvation and that is a very sad thing.

I read somewhere that the allies had the antidote for typhus and kept it from the Germans thus causing needless death.

Their suffering and deaths have been used ever since for political purposes. Jews who lie about the 'holocaust' are the most disrespectful to those who actually did suffer and die in those work camps. The way the allies and Israel have used the very real suffering and deaths of those who suffered and died in those work camps has been atrocious. Same goes for the media.

The mind boggles when thinking of what the German people have been made to endure because of the lie that is the holocaust. The enormous amount of reparations that they are expected to pay to this day and on into the future, never ending.... and now... 70 years later and still more reparations.. the never ending non let up of bashing of Germans based on never ending propaganda propagated by the media, Hollywood, politicians, history books etc... and PEOPLE DON'T KNOW...

They DON'T KNOW that Germany is STILL paying reparations or about what they already HAVE PAID or what they are still EXPECTED to pay in the future.... when people are informed of this they are SHOCKED.

IMHO revisionism is a serious subject and should be treated seriously.

What I've seen in numerous cases is people who are inconsistent in their reasoning, not seldom based on naztalgia.

1 - if you are critical of witness testimonies (and the inconsistencies in the ones presented in the last 96 pages and 70 years are enough reason to be very critical) but then suddenly embrace witness testimonies of "holiday camps" with brothels, swimming pools, concerts, etc. then you're inconsistent in your research activities. Either witness testimonies are highly suspicious, or they are credible. But not just when you want them to be either of those categories.
2 - same for propaganda. While for instance Dennis Wise (The Greatest Story Never Told) rightly points out the Soviet, Allied and Zionist propaganda, he suddenly loses any critical eye when it comes to nazi propaganda. Hitler is celebrated as a hero, while Stalin, Truman and Churchill are labeled "war criminals". Either you assess all the abundant propaganda, or not. Not turning a blind eye to the nazi propaganda and even celebrate the perpetrators of that as heros. That is inconsistent and damaging serious investigation.
3 - the review of the numbers, hence the post I made in this very topic. Clinging onto numbers that fit your story and refute someone else's story is not serious research. What I've shown is that the "World Almanac Numbers" are unreliable; no change in many many countries in the number of jews, which is impossible with immigration, emigration, newborns and deaths. Still using those figures is deliberately using corrupted data to fit a story. Just that what is -rightly- held against the perpetrators of holocaust stories.
4 - the absence of a written document for the mass extermination is just as weak an argument as the absence of a written document outlining the hoaxing/fakery of it. The fact that there was no written document for slavery doesn't mean slavery wasn't around. This false argumentation can be used for so many things. I am not saying it is proof that there was a mass extermination, but also it is no proof there was no mass extermination (in whatever way).
5 - claiming the truth is the real enemy of seeking the truth. That's my problem with that TGSNT narrative; "I know how it happened". No, we don't and we will never know what really happened. Nobody has the ability to have a 100% bird-eye view on things, so it's impossible to claim "The Truth". Also here the people rightly opposing the "Holocaust Truth" display the same methods as the ones they criticize. That is incoherent.
6 - that hundreds of thousands of jews and other deemed Untermenschen were kidnapped from the occupied countries and placed in camps is the core of the whole investigation and brings forward some burning (no pun intended) questions:
a - if the Third Reich needed so many workers for their war industry, why were only the Untermenschen kidnapped and put to work, and the evenly skilled non-jews etc. left "in peace"?
b - if the nazis were targeting populations to work for them, why would they kidnap 86-year old grandmas and babies and toddlers?
c - if the idea was to have the most efficient machinery for production in those "labor camps", why would they spend so much money and effort to keep those unfit people (children and elders) alive?
d - if the idea was to deport all the jews to Palestine, why concentrate those people in all those camps far away from "the promised land"?
e - if the mass extermination did not happen; what happened to ALL those people?
e1 - they never existed, are completely made up; vicsims
e2 - they were sent off to other countries and lived on after the war
e3 - they were killed in secret in other places, their mass or dispersed graves are still to be found

@ e1 - this hypothesis becomes very hard to maintain as the jewish families would become too small to be real. Another problem is that ancestors of surviving family members allegedly were exterminated and those people have to be real
@ e2 - if this was the case; in which countries did they immigrate to? Palestine seems the most logical option, but due to the small size of the country the immigration of "6 million" jews would have been obvious. Also it would mean the country was already before the foundation of the state of Israel filled with white European jews changing the racial structure and population from the start on. Huge efforts would have been needed to change names, etc. etc. Same problem as point 4; if a written document is needed as proof, then here as well.
If those jews and other prisoners were divided over several countries, then how was this operation executed? Sending all those people into the woods of Belarus and let them walk to their deaths in the horrific Soviet Union would have been an option, but also there the point becomes; those villages with thousands of people suddenly appearing would have recognized.
Sent to the US would be a possibility, the World Almanac figures are also for that reason corrupt as they show far too little increase in jews from Europe immigrating into that country.
@ e3 - this option makes more sense, and especially the dispersed one. The nazis occupied a huge area and distributing hundreds of thousands of people over that area and shoot them/let them die and bury/burn them is much more credible than 700-900,000 exterminated jews in concentration around Treblinka for which no forensic evidence has been found.

7 - a diversion tactic I've seen a lot is when the horrors of the suffering camp prisoners is pointed out, immediately the other horrors committed by the Allied forces are mentioned. The horrors that the Dresdeners suffered is no argument for the suffering in the camps. Just like the other way around. The suffering of innocent civilians is always horrible, no matter who caused that suffering or for what reasons. Two wrongs don't make one right.
8 - the photos have been doctored and even faked at times. But suddenly taking other photos to back-up a different story as proof is not convincing, similar to the first points.

9 - calling everything going against your own world views a "lie" and embracing everything that doesn't as "fact" is cherry picking and confirmation bias, which finds no place in a serious investiagtion. It spoils serious research and shows similar methods to jewish pro-holocaust organizations. As a good revisiionist one should move away from those traps as far as possible.

Final point; What Orangeaid shows in a nice summary is that the Holocaust Story is flawed. That's a given and doesn't need further discussion in a topic where we try to unravel truths. It's just as senseless as a discussion about 9/11 where the official conspiracy theory there is part of "what did happen?". Or in a topic about the origins of the Earth bringing in Creationist crap.

Those stories definitely are untrue, the question is; what might be true.