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TOPIC: The Holocaust

The Holocaust 06 Feb 2018 22:45 #2981

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Well the Akt Reinhard Kamps were obviously meant to allow aryans to display their aryan superiority. This would entail massive tree felling operations to obtain sufficient fuel - perhaps one pine tree per 1,000 corpses as the fat from the corpses would assist th immolation process. Bobby will know best as usual. How many trees per 1,000 half rotted corpses? I doubt Nizkor covers this.


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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 11:28 #2982

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Holocaust deniers claim:
The remains of the murdered Jews would not have burned “like wood” like the eyewitnesses testified.

The facts are:
The evidence shows that remains, either fresh or decomposed, would have burned “on their own” when the grills and pits were properly built and provided with enough fuel.

Yankiel Wiernik, a survivor of Treblinka who saw the cremation process, wrote that the “. . . bodies of women burned more easily than those of men. Accordingly, the bodies of women were used for kindling the fire.”[1] The self-named “Denierbud,” an American Holocaust denier and video maker, cites this passage in Wiernik’s memoirs and asserts that Wiernik was saying that the bodies of women burned on their own “like wood.” Denierbud claims that this was impossible and cites the result of his own experiment with a single leg of lamb over a beach bonfire.[2]

The facts about the cremation process.
The Germans were faced with disposal of two different types of remains. The first type was the bodies of people who had just been murdered. These bodies still contained fat which contributed fuel to the cremation process.[3]

Chil Rajchman (also known as Henryk Riechman), a Jewish survivor of the extermination camp area of Treblinka, recalled: “[The SS expert] orders that the first layer of corpses should consist of women, especially fat women, placed with their bellies on the rails. After that anything that arrives can be laid on top: men, women, children. A second layer is placed on top of the first, the pile growing narrower as it rises, up to a height of 2 metres [6.5 feet] . . . Then the “specialist” orders dry twigs placed underneath and lights them with a match. After a few minutes the fire flares up so strongly that it is difficult to get any closer to the oven than 50 metres [164 feet].”[4]

Bodies were also burned in pits at Auschwitz-Birkenau. Eliezer Eisenschmidt, a member of the Sonderkommando who helped to burn the remains, testified: “After all the bodies were placed in the pits, the ‘stokers’ took gasoline and set the wooden beams on fire . . . The Germans designed the cremation procedure so that the fat of the bodies would fuel the fire. In other words, the bodies themselves were the fuel.”[5]

The second type was the bodies from the mass graves that had been buried for at least one month and had lost most of their soft tissues and bodily fluids (about 60 percent of the body is water). They were dried skin and bones which once ignited burned like coal and created a very hot fire. In addition, the decomposition process produces methane and butyric acid which are highly flammable, which aids in the cremation process.[6]

Confirming this, Chil Rajchman noted that the bodies of the Jews that were exhumed from the mass graves “burn even better than those of recently gassed people.”[7]

It seems then that in reality both types of bodies burned equally well for different reasons.

Conclusion
The evidence shows that both types of remains (fresh or decomposed) do burn “on their own” when the grills and pits were properly built and provided with enough fuel. In fact, if you look closely at Denierbud’s little fire you will see that the leg of lamb did ignite briefly and burn “on its own” just as the Holocaust deniers claim cannot have happened.[8]
www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/or17-cremation-bodies/[/quote]
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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 11:28 #2983

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Gaia wrote:
Faul McCartney indeed isn't Paul, but that is outside of this topic.

46,667 MINIMUM deaths per month, every month, for 15 months straight and NOT A SINGLE CREMATORIUM in the so-called "extermination camp" Treblinka.

Oops...

Why did I know you were going be a Paul is dead loony?

46,667 per month eh?

That's about 1,550 bodies per day.

According to this 2.000 - 2,500 bodies were burned in pyres at a time.



books.google.co.uk/books?id=8fUJ9pK8aeYC&pg=PA280&lpg=PA280&dq=open+air+burings+treblinka&source=bl&ots=w2hqw3CW9v&sig=e8TSN1Hr_LRursaHTmW37YDTcvI&hl=...%20treblinka&f=false
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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 14:33 #2984

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As you're a crap holocaust denier I'll give you a hand. Not 15 months you pleb.

The cremation process only lasted about 6 months, and there were 860,000 deaths at Treblinka not the

15 x 46,667 = 700,005 that you stated.You're 160,000 short dumb ass

I shall now post something that shows how this is possible to cremate them in such a time.
As mentioned in section 1 of this chapter, the author estimated the area of each of the grids used for burning the bodies at Treblinka extermination camp at 66 m², assuming a length of 25 meters and a width of 2.625 meters. Mattogno & Graf’s estimate, also based on the grates’ description in the judgment at the 1st Düsseldorf Treblinka trial (Kurt Franz et al)[188], is somewhat higher: 30 meters long by 3 meters wide = 90 m².[189]

The first layer of bodies on this large area, according to the same authors, could have been no more than 4 bodies per 3 square meters, as each body would have occupied "a theoretical average surface area of the size of a rectangle of 1.75 m × 0.50 m, which also includes the necessary intervening space for the passage of the products of combustion." At 120 bodies per layer, and assuming a layer height of 0.30 m, a pyre of 3,500 bodies (the number that had to be burned on each of two pyres every day to dispose of about 860,000 bodies within 122 days[190]) would thus consist of 29 layers with an impracticable total height of 8.7 m.[191]

Why and how big the "necessary intervening space" between the bodies was calculated is not explained by Mattogno, which allows for assuming that it was deemed rather low, say no more than 5 cm, and that the average body they considered was 1.70 meters long and 0.45 meters wide. These are rather unrealistic measurements, considering that the deportees to Treblinka were largely if not predominantly women and children and mostly came from Polish ghettos where they had been subject to prolonged malnutrition, an adult with the aforementioned measurements thus being a rare exception rather than the rule.[192] Moreover most of the bodies had been lying in mass graves prior to cremation and lost a significant part of their volume as their water left them during the decomposition process. The average area occupied by a dead body on one of the Treblinka grids was thus considerably lower than results from Mattogno’s calculations.

On the page preceding these calculations, Mattogno takes issue with an obviously misunderstood or mistranslated statement in Alexander Donat’s publication of Wiernik’s A Year in Treblinka, whereby an excavator could dig up 3,000 corpses "at one time" (the witness must have meant to say something like "in one day" or "in one shift"), derisively pointing out that "3,000 bodies take up a volume of about (3,000×0.045 =) 135 m3."[193] 135 m³ would be the volume occupied by a pile of bodies stacked on a 90 m² grate at a height of (135 ÷ 90) = 1.5 meters – 5 layers of bodies with an average height of 0.3 m per layer as considered by M&G, each layer consisting of (3,000 ÷ 5 =) 600 bodies. Assuming the area of 66 m² estimated by the author, the height of the pile would be ca. 2 meters (135 ÷ 66), corresponding to about 7 layers, each layer consisting of ca. 429 bodies (3,000 ÷ 7).

Assuming this lower area and the higher volume displacement of the "ideal man" calculated by Alex Bay[194], i.e. 3.3 cubic feet or 0.093 cubic meters (a rather conservative assumption that ignores both the presence of women and children among the corpses and the effects of decomposition), 3,000 bodies would occupy a volume of 279 cubic meters, and the pile of bodies on the grid would have to be about 4.2 meters high (279 ÷ 66), corresponding to 14 layers consisting of about 214 bodies each.

With 3,500 bodies, the figures calculated on the basis of the above assumptions for one body’s volume displacement (0.045 m³ or 0.093 m³) would be the following:

· • Volume displacement of 0.045 m³ per body, grate area 90 m²: pyre volume above grate 157.5 m³, pyre height above grate 1.75 m = about 6 layers of about 583 bodies each;
· • Volume displacement of 0.045 m³ per body, grate area 66 m²: pyre volume above grate 157.5 m³, pyre height above grate 2.4 m = about 8 layers of about 438 bodies each;
· • Volume displacement of 0.093 m³ per body, grate area 90 m²: pyre volume above grate 325.5 m³, pyre height above grate 3.62 m = about 12 layers of about 292 bodies each;
· • Volume displacement of 0.093 m³ per body, grate area 66 m²: pyre volume above grate 325.5 m³, pyre height above grate 4.93 m = about 16 layers of about 219 bodies each.

It follows that, if indeed there had been only two grates at Treblinka and it had been necessary to cremate about 860,000 bodies within a mere 122 days, building a pyre of 3,500 bodies wouldn’t have been an impracticable undertaking as Mattogno claims.

Another approach to establishing the number of bodies that could be burned on one of the Treblinka grates is looking at the cremation grid on the Dresden Altmarkt. This grate was about 20 feet (ca. 6.1 meters) long according to David Irving[195], roughly one fourth or one fifth of the length of a Treblinka grate. Assuming the same proportion for the area, the Treblinka grids had an area 4 to 5 times larger than the grate on the Dresden Altmarkt. According to Taylor[196], the dead on the Altmarkt were burned at the rate of one pyre per day, with around five hundred corpses per pyre. Assuming that the height and density at which the bodies were piled up at Treblinka was no larger than at Dresden[197], a pyre with an area 4 to 5 times higher could thus have burned 2,000 to 2,500 bodies per day. Building a pyre this size did not necessarily take longer than at Dresden if a sufficiently large labor force was available, moreover as such labor force would be assisted by excavators (which were not available at Dresden)[198] and, unlike at Dresden, no time was spent trying to identify the victims.

A lower number of bodies per pyre were mentioned by Ukrainian Leleko[199], who testified that about 1,000 bodies were burned simultaneously. On the other hand, this witness mentioned that the burning process lasted "up to five hours", which could allow for more than one burning process per grid per day.

How many dead bodies per day did the Treblinka grids have to process on average? As mentioned above, bodies were cremated during a period of at least 5 but possibly as many as 7 months, so the average number of daily cremations, considering a total of ca. 789,000 corpses, was between 3,757 (7 months = 210 days) and 5,260 (5 months = 150 days). Two or three grids with a capacity of 2,000 to 2,500 corpses per day each would have been sufficient to achieve this daily average. However, evidence shows that the number of rosters was higher and that a correspondingly higher daily number of corpses could be burned at Treblinka:

Other efficiency measures introduced included increasing the number of cremation sites to six – thus enabling the workers to burn up to 12,000 corpses simultaneously – and placing the roasters nearer the mass graves to save time in transferring the bodies. The roasters occupied a good portion of the area east of the gas chambers, which was clear of mass graves and buildings.[200]

Mattogno mentions the statement of witness Henryk Reichman [Chil Rajchman) on 9 October 1945[201], quoted in, whereby five to six grates were built, each of which was able to accommodate 2,500 bodies at a time.[202] Wiernik doesn’t give the number of roasters, but mentions that "the Germans built additional fire grates and augmented the crews serving them, so that from 10,000 to 12,000 corpses were cremated at one time."[203
holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/belzec-sobibor-treblinka-holocaust_2777.html
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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 14:45 #2985

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There have been reports of 700,000 to 900,000 killed jews in Treblinka. The minimum number of an astronomical 46,667 is thus based on the 700,000/15 figure.

But it's all too crazy anyway. Building NO crematorium at all, while in Auschwitz the cunning Nazis built 52, or 46, or 33 with some bakeries or something.

The schizophrenic TruthZone troll cannot keep his head straight; in labour camp Auschwitz allegedly there were too many crematoria, but no questions asked why at the Sandy Hoax of the Holocaust Story there were ZERO crematoria. Biggest mass annihilation of people ever claimed, but why build crematoria, eh? :facepalm:
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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 14:53 #2986

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Erm, Nobby's scratching his pimples now but thinks that ze Germans had thousands of spare railway sleepers in storage for such an event. Probably stored in the same rooms as all the corpses that were waiting for fat woman prisoners to arrive. On trains. On railway lines built with the other thousands of sleepers that weren't to be used as fuel. Or something.
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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 15:19 #2987

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Not sleepers, the metal rails from the tracks from the disused railway line near by, you dumb ass.

The corpses were not all waiting for fat female prisoners to arrive, they burned them all together in batches. Any typhus deaths in between would have been stored a few days in a morgue room, or a pile somewhere such as in a pit. If there were no fresh Jews to burn on route, I guess the Germans would have buried the corpses and excavated them when they were ready to burn them.

I don't have all the answers but surely any idiot can see that the holocaust deniers narrative of debunking the holocaust has failed. After years and years of trying. Which in itself supports the holocaust, you don't even realise that everything you've tried to debunk has survived the debunking,

There is nothing else but to pretend the ovens were bakeries and that inwardly opening doors can not be replaced when a building is given another use... :iitm:
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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 15:24 #2988

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Allegedly around 500,000 bodies were buried in the Polish ground, before the Nazis decided "nahh, better burn the bodies than bury them".

500 fucking thousand bodies. More people than in most of the cities in Europe at that time.

Inside this perimeter:



250 x 350 meters for the "death camp", so about 4 football pitches. 500,000 bodies!

What a fucking joke(r).
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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 15:27 #2989

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Gaia wrote:
There have been reports of 700,000 to 900,000 killed jews in Treblinka. The minimum number of an astronomical 46,667 is thus based on the 700,000/15 figure.

But it's all too crazy anyway. Building NO crematorium at all, while in Auschwitz the cunning Nazis built 52, or 46, or 33 with some bakeries or something.

The schizophrenic TruthZone troll cannot keep his head straight; in labour camp Auschwitz allegedly there were too many crematoria, but no questions asked why at the Sandy Hoax of the Holocaust Story there were ZERO crematoria. Biggest mass annihilation of people ever claimed, but why build crematoria, eh? :facepalm:

860.000 to 870.000 is the usual range for death estimates at Treblinka.

The reason there were no crems built there is because they were burying dead prisoners in the ground. It's only after Himmler's visit in the spring of 1943 that the cremation process was ordered. They didn't have time to build crems by then, and the camp shut later that year.

The railings over the pit method is a good method for burning corpses, Himmler would have known about this coming from a farming background as horses and cows are/were sometimes cremated that way when they have had rabbis etc,...in the past.
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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 15:37 #2990

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Gaia wrote:
Allegedly around 500,000 bodies were buried in the Polish ground, before the Nazis decided "nahh, better burn the bodies than bury them".

500 fucking thousand bodies. More people than in most of the cities in Europe at that time.

Inside this perimeter:



250 x 350 meters for the "death camp", so about 4 football pitches. 500,000 bodies!

What a fucking joke(r).

Temper temper now darling :D

So this is what you grasp at when Auschwitz holocaust denial has failed?

Bodies get buried on top of one another, it's not like a churchyard you silly billy,
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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 16:14 #2991

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Bobby Batter wrote:
Gaia wrote:
There have been reports of 700,000 to 900,000 killed jews in Treblinka. The minimum number of an astronomical 46,667 is thus based on the 700,000/15 figure.

But it's all too crazy anyway. Building NO crematorium at all, while in Auschwitz the cunning Nazis built 52, or 46, or 33 with some bakeries or something.

The schizophrenic TruthZone troll cannot keep his head straight; in labour camp Auschwitz allegedly there were too many crematoria, but no questions asked why at the Sandy Hoax of the Holocaust Story there were ZERO crematoria. Biggest mass annihilation of people ever claimed, but why build crematoria, eh? :facepalm:


were sometimes cremated that way when they have had rabbis etc,...in the past.
Yet another Freudian slip there Nobby, comedy gold.
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Last Edit: 07 Feb 2018 16:16 by Lux Interior. Reason: Rabbis did it.
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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 16:22 #2992

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According to Wikipedia; On the Treblinka page
the excavator was used to dig burial ditches on both sides of the gas chambers; these ditches were 50 metres (160 ft) long, 25 metres (82 ft) wide, and 10 metres deep (33 ft)

I'm not sure how many burial pits there were. In an average elevator which is about one square metre, about 10 people can squeeze in, perhaps 15 if they are pressed together.

So the pits were 500 sq metres, that means 5000 people could stand in each one, 7500 if squeezed tightly together. they are also 10 metres deep, meaning that about 6 layers of folk could be standing the heads of the ones below.

So up to 45,000 people could be pressed into each pit. Seems like a eleven pits would do it.

So you only need to dig a total area 5;500 sq metres to a depth of 10 metres to accommodate the 500,000 bodies (a good portion of which being children).
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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 16:27 #2993

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How do you stack corpses vertically without them all flopping over?
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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 16:28 #2994

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Lux Interior wrote:
Bobby Batter wrote:
Gaia wrote:
There have been reports of 700,000 to 900,000 killed jews in Treblinka. The minimum number of an astronomical 46,667 is thus based on the 700,000/15 figure.

But it's all too crazy anyway. Building NO crematorium at all, while in Auschwitz the cunning Nazis built 52, or 46, or 33 with some bakeries or something.

The schizophrenic TruthZone troll cannot keep his head straight; in labour camp Auschwitz allegedly there were too many crematoria, but no questions asked why at the Sandy Hoax of the Holocaust Story there were ZERO crematoria. Biggest mass annihilation of people ever claimed, but why build crematoria, eh? :facepalm:


were sometimes cremated that way when they have had rabbis etc,...in the past.
Yet another Freudian slip there Nobby, comedy gold.


Yup I meant rabies. Anyway it gives you an excuse to cause a distraction from the demolition of the holocaust deniers bs.

Your off topic focus is very telling and the rest of the holocaust deniers, well, nowhere to be seen, Except Gaia with his 2 litres of fluid leaking bodies causing a lake on the floor of the gas chambers, etc. And you trolling typ0s.

Very telling.
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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 16:34 #2995

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Lux Interior wrote:
How do you stack corpses vertically without them all flopping over?

You don't, you stack them horizontally but they take up the same space either way. I was giving an example of an elevator of where 15 people can squeeze in. Whether the cubical is horizontal or vertical makes no difference.

So you just use the scenario I gave, and move it to the horizontal position, using the pit sizes, the 500,000 people that Gaia thinks could into fit into Treblinka, are accommodated in 8 of those pits, as described.
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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 16:37 #2996

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Bobby Batter wrote:
According to Wikipedia; On the Treblinka page
the excavator was used to dig burial ditches on both sides of the gas chambers; these ditches were 50 metres (160 ft) long, 25 metres (82 ft) wide, and 10 metres deep (33 ft)

So the pits were 500 sq metres, that means 5000 people could stand in each one, 7500 if squeezed tightly together. they are also 10 metres deep, meaning that about 6 layers of folk could be standing the heads of the ones below.
.

This post you mean? So not standing as you wrote but laying down, you just wrote one thing but meant another?
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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 16:38 #2997

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Great new documentary Probing the Holocaust released end of last year. Can be downloaded and watched here.
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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 16:39 #2998

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Corpses need weathering just as wood does, stack em up under the eaves of the barracks and let them dry out over winter. You have to get rid of the 60% weight of water that the human body contains.

Failing the time to do this - how much fuel is needed to cause rotting corpses to fuel their own immolation?


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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 16:42 #2999

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Well if you stack them vertically all the water runs down into their feet, which you chop off with pedal powered tootsie loppers and burn the rest. Simples.
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The Holocaust 07 Feb 2018 16:46 #3000

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Lux Interior wrote:
Bobby Batter wrote:
According to Wikipedia; On the Treblinka page
the excavator was used to dig burial ditches on both sides of the gas chambers; these ditches were 50 metres (160 ft) long, 25 metres (82 ft) wide, and 10 metres deep (33 ft)

So the pits were 500 sq metres, that means 5000 people could stand in each one, 7500 if squeezed tightly together. they are also 10 metres deep, meaning that about 6 layers of folk could be standing the heads of the ones below.
.

This post you mean? So not standing as you wrote but laying down, you just wrote one thing but meant another?

Well people stand when they squeeze in an elevator, so perhaps 15 people could tightly squeeze in an elevator of one square metre, in the vertical position.

So using that scenario only 8 burial pits would be needed to accommodate 500,000 bodies, using the sizes of the pits given by Wikipedia. But of course dead people in a burial pit would not stand on one another to a depth of 10 metres, they'd be in the horizontal position.

The point being 45,000 people could fit into such a pit, whether they are acrobats standing on one another's heads, in the vertical position, or dead bodies in the horizontal position makes no odds. That amount of bodies can fit into that amount of space.

So even Treblinka, the most controversial of all the gas camps, the holocaust deniers fail to debunk.
Jews LARPing as Nazis
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