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TOPIC: The Holocaust

The Holocaust 26 Aug 2019 21:22 #3501

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Frothy wrote:
Looks like you've got issues.
You can’t understand the world without understanding the Truth of WW2 and you can’t truly understand WW2 without understanding the Truth of WW1. And to get the full picture you need to understand who the German people were as a race and culture before these world wars were created to crush them.

Germany did not start WW1 or WW2… the Germans have been the victims.
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 04:25 #3502

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Flare wrote:
Frothy wrote:
Looks like you've got issues.


It's yet another selfie.
liberabo te ab inferno

875 020 079
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 04:32 #3503

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Lux Interior wrote:
Flare wrote:
Frothy wrote:
Looks like you've got issues.


It's yet another selfie.

(((Jacques Nickelsohn))) ?
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 11:21 #3504

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Flare wrote:
Frothy wrote:
Looks like you've got issues.

it's a response to your ridiculous notion that;


Flare
ZyklonB was an insecticide, which couldn't be used for homocidal, let alone genocidal gassings anyway
Once a hyena always a hyena.
Last Edit: 27 Aug 2019 11:22 by Frothy.
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 11:29 #3505

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Holocaust Daniel versus Dan yell Holocaust...…. :larf:
NUKES ARE A HOAX
TRUTH IS HATE FOR THOSE THAT HATE THE TRUTH
Meet the New Boss.....Same as the Old Boss

http://www.stopthecrime.net/Henry-Makow---Illuminati----(2008).PDF
(((ROCCO))) is a Sayanim Troll
MrAnderson is a Bollock….lmao
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 11:31 #3506

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Gaia wrote:
Frothy wrote:
the narrative is that it was the excess Jews that were gassed, the nazis kept enough of them alive to carry out the slave chores.

If that were indeed the case, the able-bodied men between 15 and 55 would have died en masse in labor camps and the "excess" jews would be gassed to lampshades in the specifically prepared "death camps" of Reinhard Heydrich.

Even there the official narrative doesn't add up. At all.

Busted. Again.

The narrative is that Auschwitz was one of the few camps that had a slave labour use, as well as a mass homicidal death facility. So there wound't be need to deport 'prisoners' for gassing to other places.

Afaik the lampshade was an individual occurrence and not a usual practice.

But anyway you're not critical of Flare's notion that ZyklonB was an insecticide, which couldn't be used for homicidal, let alone genocidal gassings anyway so I can only assume that you and others that have remained silent on that agree with him.

it really is a whole new level of horseshit which makes your form of 'revisionism' as cranky as the moon being made of cheese or the Earth is a plate riding on the back of a giant turtle.

That Flare type of lunacy is making 'revisionists' look mental thus supporting the official narrative.


PS if it's Dutch cheese that you think the moon is made of it's going to be the blandest tasting and rubbery moon that ever was.
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Last Edit: 27 Aug 2019 11:45 by Frothy.
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 12:36 #3507

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Zyklon B and Gas Chambers

Typhus was a great killer for the Germans in World War I, giving a reference published shortly after that war. The typhus of World War I, like that of World War II, was carried by lice. In response to this specific problem, the German company DEGESCH (Deutsche Gesellschaft für Schädlingsbekämpfung - German Pest Control Co.) developed the Zyklon B pesticide and made it available for commercial use in 1923.

Zyklon B, referred to here merely as Zyklon, is a very effective pesticide consisting of liquid hydrogen cyanide (HCN, an acid) absorbed into some inert material such as wood pulp, with an irritant added to warn bystanders of its presence. HCN is also called "prussic acid" and in German "Blausäure" (blue acid), because it is commonly used in blue dyes and tends to leave blue stains where it is used.

In its gaseous or liquid form HCN is very deadly and was used in American execution gas chambers, where it was traditionally generated by mixing an acid (normally sulfuric acid) with potassium cyanide or sodium cyanide, resulting in rapid release of HCN in its gaseous form.

HCN is useless as a battlefield gas because it is a true gas, slightly lighter than air, and disperses too rapidly for that application. World War I battlefield gases were actually dusts that hovered about the target area.

The pesticide Zyklon works somewhat differently. It is supplied in a very tightly sealed container. When a space (e.g. a barracks or building) is to be treated with it, that space is tightly sealed and trained personnel empty cans of Zyklon on the floor, preferably spreading the Zyklon out as much as possible. They then leave the space, close it, and wait the time required for the liquid HCN to pass into the gaseous form by evaporation, fill the space, and kill the target pests. Then the space is opened and ventilated.

This is a very time consuming process because the evaporation is slow and for safety reasons the time required for ventilation is lengthy. The boiling point of HCN is 25.6°C (78°F). That does not mean the space must have that ambient temperature in order for the gas to be released; water does not have to be brought to its boiling point in order to evaporate. However the process is slow at any lower temperature and especially slow in winter temperatures.

An information booklet for Zyklon gives typical times of 2-72 hours for the gassing process and at least 10 hours for ventilation; the former depends very much on the temperature and the target pests and the latter on the physical properties of the space and its contents. For example, clothing and bedding should be beaten even after ventilation.

Another step recommended at the end of a Zyklon gassing and ventilation process is the test for residual HCN gas. The typical test uses a mixture of copper acetate and benzidene acetate and test paper which turns dark blue if the HCN level is dangerously high. A temperature of at least 15°C (60°F) is required to perform this test, so there are many circumstances under which it cannot be performed.

Use of Zyklon is inherently dangerous and during the war there existed a German regulation that it could be used only by, or under license from, DEGESCH, which was officially responsible for training all operators using it.

There have also been gas chambers designed specifically to use Zyklon to disinfest articles such as clothing with HCN, especially in Germany. With few exceptions the interiors of these gas chambers are heated, in order to accelerate the development of the gaseous HCN from the liquid form, and for other reasons. Gaseous HCN is water soluble, so high temperature is desired to reduce moisture in the gas chamber. Also, lice and some other pests are easier to kill at higher temperatures, because their metabolism rates are higher. Desired temperatures are in the range 25 to 35°C (77-95°F).

In such gas chambers the air - gaseous HCN mixture is expelled from the top when the gassing process is completed, for safety reasons and perhaps because fresh air that enters during the ventilation is cool and the warmer air - HCN gas mixture tends to the top of the chamber (as already mentioned gaseous HCN, by itself, is only slightly lighter than air).

A related point is that the standard German Zyklon gas chamber of the time used a circulatory system developed by DEGESCH. In this system the air - HCN mixture is continually recirculated, i.e. it continually exits and re-enters the gas chamber. Circulation greatly reduces the length of time required to generate the gas from the Zyklon and work on the target pests.

At the conclusion of the gassing, expulsion of the gas and the introduction of fresh air are accomplished by opening and closing the relevant ports in this circulatory system. Overall, a gas chamber with circulation is about three times more effective than one without, i.e. can do about three times more work.

The practical minimum time required to kill lice (among the most difficult and resistant creatures) with Zyklon is about 3/4 of an hour. In a heated gas chamber with circulation a total time of about an hour, for gas generation and killing of the lice, followed by a ventilation period of about 20 minutes, is attainable under practical operational conditions.

The best material for a gas chamber using HCN is steel. If bricks or concrete are used, then the interiors must be coated with a sealant to prevent retention of the gas in the walls of the gas chamber.

codoh.com/library/document/1033/
Last Edit: 27 Aug 2019 13:35 by annabelle.
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 13:04 #3508

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It takes a lot less HCN to kill humans than lice, ie concentration of and time. It's more efficient for killing humans than lice.
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 13:09 #3509

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It takes a lot less HCN to kill humans than lice, ie concentration of and time. It's more efficient for killing humans than lice.

It only take 300ppm to kill humans but 16.000 ppm for delousing.
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Last Edit: 27 Aug 2019 13:21 by Frothy.
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 13:11 #3510

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Deaths in German Concentration Camps

The aim of this section is to present some numerical data pertaining to those "ordinary" deaths in German concentration camps of a sort that are not contested. That is to say, deaths which were documented by the Germans, even if some of those documents are now missing. The "Holocaust" allegation is that the millions "exterminated" were never documented. Since the documents are not complete, there will be some disagreement on the specific numbers of ordinary deaths, but nobody would put these numbers anywhere near millions.

This is not to imply that what is treated here is irrelevant to the "extermination" problem. It is very relevant, in ways to be explained below and elsewhere. For the time being, the reader should recognize that the camps in Germany, on the one hand, and the camps in Poland, on the other, play different roles in this study, not only in the sense that the legend claims exterminations only in the latter, but also in the sense of historical fact.

From the present point of view, the main difference between the two is that the German camps (e.g. Belsen, Buchenwald, Dachau) experienced catastrophic death rates only at the end of the war, mainly in the first four months of 1945, while the camps in Poland (e.g. Auschwitz, Majdanek) experienced them much earlier, in 1942.

The great killer in the German camps was of course typhus, spread by lice in the constant traffic with the east.

In the rapid expansion of the camps in Poland, in 1941-1942, the Germans were able to anticipate this danger on account of the World War I experience. However their countermeasures largely failed and typhus epidemics broke out in summer 1942. The figure for the number of recorded male ordinary deaths at Auschwitz, in the period 1 June - 19 August, has survived; it was 11,920.

As a result of the summer 1942 epidemic, the crematorium construction project at Auschwitz was greatly expanded. The Reichsführer-SS, Heinrich Himmler, visited Auschwitz on 17-18 July 1942; the epidemics must have been the major item on the agenda. The camp was quarantined on 23 July, probably by order, or with the consent, of Himmler.

Typhus epidemics being hard to combat, the unacceptable high death rates continued. On 28 December 1942 Himmler ordered that the death rate "be reduced at all costs", and a renewed campaign to do so ensued. After several months the concentration camp administration presented Himmler with data to show progress; that data later became Nuremberg trial document 1469-PS and is summarized below:

Death Cases in the Concentration Camps,
July 1942 to June 1943.


Month Inmates Deaths Percent

July 98,000 8,329 8.50
Aug. 115,000 12,217 10.62
Sept. 110,000 11,206 10.19
Oct. 85,800 8,856 10.32
Nov. 83,500 8,095 9.69
Dec. 88,000 8,800 10.00
Jan. 123,000 9,839 8.00
Feb. 143,100 11,650 8.14
March 154,200 12,112 7.85
April 171,000 8,358 4.71
May 203,000 5,700 2.80
June 199,500 5,650 2.83

Death Cases for the Month of August 1943
Camp Inmates Deaths %(Aug.) %(July) % change

Dachau 17,300 40 0.23 0.32 -0.09
Sachsenhausen 26,500 194 0.73 0.78 -0.05
Buchenwald 17,600 118 0.67 1.22 -0.55
Mauthausen 21,100 290 1.37 1.61 -0.24
Flossenbürg 4,800 155 3.23 3.27 -0.04
Neuengamme 9,800 150 1.53 2.14 -0.61
Auschwitz (m.) 48,000 1,442 3.00 2.96 +0.04
Auschwitz (f.) 26,000 938 3.61 5.15 -1.54
Gross-Rosen 5,000 76 1.52 2.69 -1.17
Natzweiler 2,200 41 1.87 1.63 +0.24
Bergen-Belsen 3,300 4 0.12 0.39 -0.27
Stutthof (m.) 3,800 131 3.45 5.69 -2.24
Stutthof (f.) 500 1 0.20 0.00 +0.20
Majdanek (m.) 11,500 882 7.67 4.62 +3.05
Majdanek (f.) 3,900 172 4.41 2.01 +2.40
Ravensbrück (m.) 3,100 26 0.84 0.76 +0.08
Ravensbrück (f.) 14,100 38 0.27 0.24 +0.03
Riga 3,000 1 0.03 0.33 -0.30
Herzogenbusch 2,500

Summary 224,000 4,699 2.09 2.23 -0.14

Since the typhus was basically due to the traffic with the east, it was the case that as a general pattern, the further east a camp was, the higher the death rate. For example, Majdanek was the furthest east of the concentration camps in Poland.

As ordinary deaths in catastrophically high numbers, these conditions had precedents since the circumstances that cause them, disparate people thrown together in hastily constructed camps in wartime, are so easily attained.

During the U.S. Civil War, the POW camps in the North such as Rock Island and Camp Douglas experienced death rates of 2%-4% per month. These figures were even exceeded in camps in the South such as Florence, where diarrhea and scurvy caused 20 to 50 deaths per day.

Conditions at Andersonville were even worse, and 13,000 of the 50,000 Union POWs who were interned there perished.

During the 1899-1902 Boer War in South Africa about 120,000 non-combatant white Boers and 75,000 black Africans were placed in British concentration camps.

For about a year, the Boer mortality rate ranged from 120 to 340 deaths per thousand per year (1.1% to 3.4% per month) while the Boer infant mortality rate, due chiefly to epidemics of measles, was as high as 600 per thousand per year (7.35% per month).

About 20,000 Boer women and children died in these camps.

During World War I the Germans mixed Russian POWs with those of other nationalities, resulting in typhus epidemics in their POW camps that were strikingly similar to those experienced in the World War II concentration camps.

It is possible to get a useful idea of the total numbers of deaths in the various camps, although there remains a lack of complete and formally documented information on ordinary deaths at Auschwitz, despite the widely publicized release of Auschwitz death books by the Soviet Union in 1989.

Coincidentally with that release, I published a review in which I gave figures that had been given to me by the International Tracing Service in Arolsen when I visited there in 1977: 45,575 recorded deaths in 1942, 36,960 in 1943, death books for 1940, 1941, 1944, January 1945 (when the camp was evacuated) missing.

My information was not complete but it is satisfactory for the present purpose. Another problem is the status to be accorded to the figure of about 73,000 reported by the documents supplied by the Soviets in 1989.

That documentation is incomplete but Pressac has used it to arrive at figures for Auschwitz very similar to those offered here.

Thus I shall maintain my assumption that the Auschwitz total of ordinary deaths for 1940 through January 1945 was "in the range 100,000 - 150,000, probably closer to the former, since the camp population was small in 1940-1941 and by 1944 the Germans had made some progress against typhus" (the Auschwitz camp population expanded to well over 100,000 in 1944). We shall see that this total is not the crucial point. The figures are:

Year Auschwitz Buchenwald Dachau

1940 ? 1,772 1,515
1941 ? 1,522 2,576
1942 45,575 2,898 2,470
1943 36,960 3,516 1,100
1944 ? 8,644 4,794
1945 ? 13,056 15,384
Totals ? 31,408 27,839
Totals? 125,000? 37,000? 32,000?

The totals for Buchenwald and Dachau, camps in Germany rather than Poland, are fairly well established. The International Tracing Service report of 1977 specified 36,550 for Buchenwald and 31,951 for Dachau, both figures lacking an undetermined number of "persons who died shortly before the liberation and during the evacuation transports" in the spring of 1945. The breakdown by years is done with the assistance of other documents.

Some comments on the relations between these figures and the "Holocaust" claim are in order.

The orthodox Holocaust historians would generally accept the figures for Buchenwald and Dachau, since they do not claim exterminations at those camps, but they would hold that, beyond those I have taken into account for Auschwitz (i.e. the "ordinary" deaths that were recorded, even though some of the records are now lost), there were about a million additional deaths that were never recorded.

Almost all of the latter were, the legend claims, Jews who went directly from trains to gas chambers with no corresponding records or documents created by the Germans.

Based on past statements and publications it is safe to say that the International Tracing Service, from which some of my data comes, and the International Committee of the Red Cross, which administers the ITS, also take this "orthodox" position, except that they might be reluctant to offer a specific figure.

Revisionists hold that the ordinary deaths that were recorded at Auschwitz were essentially all the deaths there. One way to evaluate our claim is to consider the cremation capacities at the camps in relation to these death rates.

Notes
Last modified: 23 September 1997.

view here: codoh.com/library/document/1028/
Last Edit: 27 Aug 2019 13:33 by annabelle.
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 13:32 #3511

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Capacity and Role of the Auschwitz Crematoria

Before 1943, the only crematorium at Auschwitz was the six muffle installation at "Auschwitz I", i.e. the Stammlager (main or original camp). This was "Crematorium I". A "muffle" is the familiar chamber designed to admit one body and has a door of appropriate size.

Early in 1942, plans were drawn up for a new crematorium at Auschwitz with an additional 15 muffles but, in summer 1942 and coincidentally with the catastrophic typhus epidemic, these plans were enlarged and it was decided to install an additional 46, rather than 15, muffles and to situate them in the new and huge "Birkenau" or "Auschwitz II" section of the camp.

Specifically, Crematorium II and Crematorium III were to be mirror images of one another, having 15 muffles each. Crematorium IV and Crematorium V were to have eight muffles each. The new crematoria were more or less ready in spring 1943, and Crematorium I, with its six muffles, was taken out of service in July 1943.

The legend claims that these tremendous cremation facilities were for the purpose of disposing of the bodies of "exterminated" Jews, i.e. the million of the legend, rather than the approximate 125,000 that died "ordinary" deaths. Revisionists claim they were for the purpose of disposing of those who died ordinary deaths.

The simplest way to evaluate this claim is to compare the number of muffles at Auschwitz with the numbers at Buchenwald and Dachau, which two camps are agreed to have not been extermination camps, and where the ordinary deaths were the only ones.

The cremation facilities at those two camps are fairly well known. Buchenwald had a six muffle crematorium, installed in 1942, and perhaps two additional muffles installed earlier; Buchenwald also had access to the civilian crematorium that existed in Weimar. Dauchau had a two muffle crematorium before 1942, when a four muffle crematorium was constructed. We may take both Buchenwald and Dachau as having at least six muffles each. Those at Buchenwald were of a design very similar to those at Auschwitz, and were supplied by the same company (Topf).

We may now consider these numbers in relation to the numbers of ordinary deaths, which I have treated elsewhere. Here we attempt to gauge intentions formulated in 1942-1943, rather than capabilities actually attained. We want to know whether the crematoria at Auschwitz were intended to play a role different from the crematoria at Buchenwald and Dachau. A lengthier version of these arguments appeared in [4].

At first it may appear that Auschwitz had an excessive number of muffles by comparison, for the number of ordinary deaths at Auschwitz was about three to four times those at Buchenwald and Dachau, but there were about eight times as many muffles. However when the accounting is done correctly it is seen that Auschwitz in fact had less relative cremation capacity.

The figures for total deaths at the two camps in Germany have entirely different interpretations from those for Auschwitz. The latter was evacuated in January 1945, under conditions much less chaotic than those that held later; the Auschwitz total, whatever it is, does not include ordinary deaths in the complete chaos of spring 1945.

The worst period for Auschwitz was not 1945, but 1942, when its crematorium construction project was defined. By contrast most of the deaths in the camps in Germany were in late 1944 and the chaotic first four months of 1945, during the disintegration and final collapse of German industry.

Concentration camp personnel knew that any plans for fundamental expansion of cremation capabilities that might have been drawn up in 1944 stood little chance of being implemented and indeed there was scant such construction in 1944 and 1945. All significant and effective decisions on crematoria construction were in fact made before 1944, and could have been determined only by conditions existing prior to 1944. Thus it is the 1942/1943 period that we must look to in order to judge German intentions in the construction of crematoria. The incomplete figures that I gave for Auschwitz are, therefore, all that is required for the present purpose.

The crucial years are 1942 and 1943, for those are the latest years that could be considered to have determined German decisions on the construction of crematoria in the camps. The results of a relevant computation are:

Number of projected muffles per thousand recorded deaths
Year Auschwitz Buchenwald Dachau

1942 1.14 2.07 2.43
1943 1.41 1.71 5.45

I have assumed 6 muffles each for Buchenwald and Dachau and 52 muffles for Auschwitz (46 for Birkenau and 6 for the Stammlager) not because Auschwitz ever in fact had 52 operational muffles (the 6 muffle crematorium at Auschwitz I having been taken out of service right after the 46 at Birkenau were installed) but because the purpose of the computation is to help interpret intentions in building the crematoria rather than capabilities actually attained.

We see, in fact, that the ratio of cremation muffles to deaths somewhat disfavors Auschwitz; the German construction decisions had it less well supplied than the two camps in Germany that were not, all agree, extermination camps.

Pressac offers about the same figures for numbers of muffles. He includes the two older muffles at Buchenwald to get a total of 8 rather than 6, and counts 6 for Dachau as done here. For Auschwitz, he gets 54 rather than 52 by counting two portable muffles.

Perhaps budgetary constraints excluded more crematoria for Auschwitz, or perhaps the Auschwitz authorities were looking forward to a significant reduction of the death rate. In any case, this simple computation makes it difficult to believe that the Germans viewed the crematoria at Auschwitz as playing a role unlike those at Buchenwald and Dachau.

Revisionists agree with the analysis of Heinrich Himmler, who stated on 21 April 1945, as the war was ending:

In order to put a stop to the epidemics, we were forced to burn the bodies of incalculable numbers of people who had been destroyed by disease. We were therefore forced to build crematoria, and on this account they are knotting a noose for us.

Notes
Last modified: 7 January 2007.

view here: codoh.com/library/document/1025/
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 13:54 #3512

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The toxicity of hydrogen cyanide to humans is dependent on the nature of the exposure. Due to the variability of dose-response effects between individuals, the toxicity of a substance is typically expressed as the concentration or dose that is lethal to 50% of the exposed population (LC50 or LD50). The LC50 for gaseous hydrogen cyanide is 100-300 parts per million. Inhalation of cyanide in this range results in death within 10-60 minutes, with death coming more quickly as the concentration increases. Inhalation of 2,000 parts per million hydrogen cyanide causes death within one minute. The LD50 for ingestion is 50-200 milligrams, or 1-3 milligrams per kilogram of body weight, calculated as hydrogen cyanide. For contact with unabraded skin, the LD50 is 100 milligrams (as hydrogen cyanide) per kilogram of body weight.
www.cyanidecode.org/cyanide-facts/environmental-health-effects
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 13:57 #3513

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There's a article about the body disposal at Auschwitz here phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/

It's too long to post up th whole thing imo but here an excerpt'


The Typhus Myth
In 1941 Auschwitz had two double muffle coke fired furnaces built by the German firm of Topf and Sons. An additional double muffle oven was added in the Spring of 1942. Each muffle can be considered an oven, so that there were six ovens in the camp during this time. The six ovens were in the main camp known as the Stammlager or Auschwitz 1.These six ovens were housed in a crematorium known as Krema I in much of the literature. In the summer of 1942 the Auschwitz Construction Agency, known as the Bauleitung, started to build four new crematoria in the Birkenau area of the camp, also known as Auschwitz II. These four crematoria housed an additional 46 ovens. Kremas II and III each had five triple muffle furnaces (15 ovens in each) while Kremas IV and V each had a single eight muffle furnace (eight ovens in each). Like the six ovens in the Auschwitz main camp, the 46 new ovens were built by the firm of Topf and Sons and used coke as fuel. [14] None of these facts are disputed by deniers or their critics.

The principal issue that deniers have disputed is the reason the Bauleitung began to build so many new ovens. Historians have long recognized that the extensive building campaign was because the authorities were committing mass murder and wanted an efficient means of disposing of the bodies as well as structures which could be used to gas prisoners. At the time the building began there were two structures in Birkenau which were used for gassing. They were located in the wooded area behind the camp. There was also a gas chamber in the crematorium located in the main camp which housed the six ovens. [15] Forensic tests done by the Institute For Forensic Research in Cracow, Poland in 1994 found traces of the poisonous hydrocyanic acid in all five crematoria, [16] consistent with a great deal of eyewitness testimony and other documents from Auschwitz which show that these structures were used as gas chambers. [17] The two structures in the wooded area were completely destroyed by the Germans and no trace remains. However, as will be seen later on, there is photographic evidence of one of these structures.

Deniers claim that there were no gassings at Auschwitz. They attribute the principal reason for building so many ovens to other factors. In 1977 Arthur Butz, the best known of American deniers, hinted that typhus was a principal reason for building so many new ovens. However, this hint became explicit, and by 1992 he was attributing the typhus epidemic which swept the camp in the summer of 1942 as the reason for the building campaign. [18] Carlo Mattogno attributes the building campaign to the typhus epidemic and a decision by the camp authorities to greatly expand the population of the camp. [19]

One of the reasons deniers need to make this argument is that they must find a justification for building so many ovens. This argument also involves the amount of bodies these new ovens could dispose of in a 24 hour period. A report from the Bauleitung in June 1943, after all of the new ovens became operational for at least some period, placed the cremation capacity of all 52 ovens at 4756 per day. [20] Deniers have not totally agreed among themselves on this issue, but Butz and Mattogno place the cremation capacity at about 1000 per day, or 30,000 per month. [21] Mattogno claimed the maximum cremation capacity of the six original ovens was 120 per day, [22] even though he was familiar with evidence from another concentration camp that showed a Topf double muffle oven could burn 52 per day or 26 per muffle. [23]

In August 1942, during the worst period of the typhus epidemic, the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp had 21,451 male prisoners. [24] The information on the female population is missing. However, it is known that the female population was about 8200 in December 1942. [25] This means, according to denier calculations, that the camp authorities were building enough crematorium capacity in the summer of 1942 to incinerate the entire population of the camp in a month. According to the Bauleitung, this was enough capacity to cremate the camp's population in about a week. Even if it is assumed that the Bauleitung's number of 4756 per day was too high, the question arises as to why the camp authorities thought it necessary to have such a high cremation capacity. The highest amount of prisoners registered in the camp was in the summer of 1944 when the total reached slightly more than 92,000. [26]

It is easy to see why deniers are dependent on blaming typhus as the reason for the crematoria building. Without hundreds of thousands of such deaths, there would not be any justification for such a huge building campaign. There can be no doubt that typhus was a major problem for the camp authorities in the summer of 1942. Nearly all of the memoirs on Auschwitz mention the disease. The question is how many people were actually dying from typhus.

It is known from camp registration records that there were about 404,000 registered prisoners in the camp during its 4 1/2-year existence. [27] Polish historian Dr. Franciszek Piper did the most comprehensive demographic study of Auschwitz ever undertaken and traced 1.3 million prisoners to the camp. He found that 1.1 million had been killed. This includes 200,000 of the registered prisoners and 900,000 prisoners who never received a registration number because they were killed upon arrival. [28] Deniers have never been able to account for the missing.

In 1989, the Auschwitz Archives in Moscow were opened for the first time since the Soviets liberated the camp in January 1945. These archives contain thousands of documents which survived destruction by the camp authorities when they fled the advancing Soviet forces. Among the items discovered were the Auschwitz Death Books. These books contain the death certificates of registered prisoners only. Nonregistered prisoners who were killed upon arrival did not receive a death certificate. The death books are incomplete. They contain the certificates of 68,864 registered prisoners who died from August 1941 to December 1943.There are no books for 1944 or periods prior to August 1941.They are either missing or were destroyed. Also, there are a number of missing books for the period August 1941 to December 1943. However, each book contains between 1400 and 1500 entries. [29] By interpolating 1500 entries into each missing death book we can arrive at approximately 80,000 deaths of registered prisoners for 1942 and 1943. [30] Dr. Tadeusz Paczula, a former Auschwitz inmate, was in the camp from 1940. He also kept the death registries for registered inmates. He later testified that for the two years following the summer of 1942, about 130,000 names were entered into the death registries. [31]

Nevertheless, the nearly 69,000 death certificates available afford researchers the opportunity to see exactly what was killing registered prisoners. It is now known on the basis of these certificates that very few prisoners died from typhus. [32] They show that only 2060 of the 68,864 deaths were from typhus. While typhus can be lethal, it need not necessarily be so. Lucie Adelsberger, a Jewish prisoner and camp doctor, got typhus, was quarantined, and resumed her duties after recovery. [33] Similarly, Ella Lingens Reiner, a German doctor, who was also a prisoner, contracted typhus and survived. [34] One of the early Auschwitz memoirs, written in 1947, recounts an episode with camp doctor Josef Mengele, later to become known as the "Angel of Death" for his medical experiments. Mengele was disturbed about the typhus epidemic. The former prisoner wrote: "Alas, typhus epidemics did rage in the camp, but at this time we had comparatively few victims. The same day he [Mengele] sent us a large quantity of serum and directed mass vaccinations." [35] Petro Mirchuk, a Ukranian prisoner, wrote that a delousing in August 1942, the worst month of the epidemic, "eliminated the epidemic and the billions of fleas and lice ceased to exist." [36]

Thus, it can be seen that people could recover from typhus and that the authorities did have means of combating the disease. What then was killing all of the registered prisoners if not typhus? Perhaps the most revealing part of the death books is what they claim were the causes of death. Many of the causes deal with various forms of heart failure such as "heart attack", "heart muscle degeneration," "heart and circulatory collapse" etc. There are over 25,000 deaths listed which relate to some kind of heart problem. Other causes deal with general physical weakness, tuberculosis, pleurisy (dealing with lung problems), gastroenteritis, pneumonia, etc. People 50 and under account for 59,000 deaths . Those 40 and under account for more than 44,000 deaths. [37] While all of these deaths would have been possible for people with typhus who were not treated, it is simply not possible for people of the ages listed to have died from the stated causes. Young people, with rare exceptions, do not die of heart failure. In some cases children were said to have died from "decrepitude", an affliction of the aged. [38]

How then can the death certificates be explained if the stated causes do not conform to physical reality? The only explanation is that the camp authorities were engaged in a massive killing campaign of registered prisoners. Part of this has to do with typhus. Wieslaw Kielar, a Polish prisoner, was one of those charged with making up the death certificates. He writes that the method for getting rid of sick prisoners was to kill them. His memoirs were written in 1972, seventeen years before the discovery of the death books. He describes the falsification of the death certificates:

My work consisted of writing out death certificates. The description of the illness for which the prisoner had died also applied to those who had been murdered in the camp. Shot, killed by injection, gas chamber. Each one had to have his case history - a fictitious one, of course. That was what the camp authorities demanded, and that was what I was ordered to do. I must admit that, to begin with, I wrote "heart failure" in the case of prisoners who I knew had been shot. Later, though, I decided that there had been too many of these heart failures... In the case of a man who had been shot, for instance, I wrote diarrhea... In brief it was nothing but a barefaced falsification of the death records, an obliteration of all traces of mass murder that had been committed on defenseless prisoners. [39]

Kielar's description is borne out by the by the death certificates of 168 prisoners who were shot on May 27, 1942 but whose cause of death was listed as "heart attack." [40]

Ella Lingens Reiner, the German medical doctor referred to above, wrote that typhus patients were killed by phenol injection. "The result was that we, the prisoner-doctors, simply disguised typhus as influenza in our lists." [41] The death books show 1194 death certificates listing influenza as the cause of death. [42]

Pery Broad, an SS private first class assigned to Auschwitz, made a similar observation in his memoirs written shortly after the end of the war. He writes that the death certificates:

were written by a medically trained prisoner whose job in the hospital it was to concoct such reports in the case of each prisoner who had died in the camp, whatever the cause. All the countless victims, those who...had been shot in Block 11 [the execution block], or the sick who had phenol injected into their hearts, the victims of starvation or of tortures, they had all regrettably lost their lives, according to the Deaths [sic] Book by succumbing to some ordinary disease." [43]

Jenny Schnauer, an Austrian prisoner, also recorded deaths in the Death Books. She testified at the Auschwitz trials in Germany in the mid-1960s as follows:

Most of the recorded causes of death were fictitious. Thus, for example, we were never allowed to enter "shot while escaping" in the book; I had to write "heart failure." and "cardiac weakness" was the cause listed instead of "malnutrition." [44]

Even though deniers reject all post war testimony as fraudulent, the above observations by four witnesses who were there conform exactly to the death certificates. Moreover, these observations were made years before the discovery of the death books. Unless one is willing to believe that heart failure and other unlikely causes were killing thousands of people not at risk for such ailments, then the only choice is to acknowledge the accuracy of the above memoirs and testimony that mass murder was taking place at Auschwitz. At any rate, the death books and eyewitness observations prove that typhus was not killing that many prisoners - certainly not enough prisoners to justify the building of so many ovens.

Predictably, deniers have totally ignored the causes of death listed in the death books since this information was first published in 1995. Rather, Mattogno and others continue to propagate the myth that typhus was responsible for the high inmate mortality.

A postscript to erroneously attributing typhus as a leading cause of death also arises in the Mogilev prisoner of war camp for Soviet soldiers, a camp in Belorussia. It was commonly believed that many of these soldiers died of typhus. The estimated capacity of cremation ovens for Mogilev was 3000 per day. However, it is now known that there were relatively few deaths from typhus. Rather, the policy of extermination through labor, hunger and cold resulted in most of the deaths. [45]
Once a hyena always a hyena.
Last Edit: 27 Aug 2019 14:00 by Frothy.
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 13:59 #3514

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I remember having a talk with the ex Soviet I lived with for a time. She was one of the 'peasants' living in the rural Soviet Union under communism when the Germans invaded. They were starving to death under communism and saw the Germans as hopefully their liberators. The only thing they really cared about on a daily basis was getting food so they wouldn't starve to death and having an end to their suffering..

They made deals with the German soldiers that in exchange for food they would wash their uniforms. The uniforms stunk badly and were covered in lice so they hung the German uniforms on the end of poles and dunked them into water containers, washing them and then drying them.

The German soldiers then gave them food, as agreed. Funny that they were not terrified that the German soldiers would kill them on the spot but saw them as a means to stave off starvation in exchange for services rendered.

Lice was a big problem for German soldiers fighting in the Soviet Union.

Starving Soviet peasants who actually hoped the Germans would win so they would finally be free from the horrible yoke of communism.
Last Edit: 27 Aug 2019 14:03 by annabelle.
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 14:28 #3515

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Frothy wrote:
Gaia wrote:
Frothy wrote:
the narrative is that it was the excess Jews that were gassed, the nazis kept enough of them alive to carry out the slave chores.

If that were indeed the case, the able-bodied men between 15 and 55 would have died en masse in labor camps and the "excess" jews would be gassed to lampshades in the specifically prepared "death camps" of Reinhard Heydrich.

Even there the official narrative doesn't add up. At all.

Busted. Again.

The narrative is that Auschwitz was one of the few camps that had a slave labour use, as well as a mass homicidal death facility. So there wound't be need to deport 'prisoners' for gassing to other places.

You're digging yourself even deeper in the stinking mass grave in Polish permafrost, priceless!
Afaik the lampshade was an individual occurrence and not a usual practice.

It is a story even the mainstream debunked themselves and STILL they, and you here included, keep pushing that bullshit.

You do know that the "shrunken heads" were not jews, but Paracas indigenous people from Peru, right?
But anyway you're not critical of Flare's notion that ZyklonB was an insecticide, which couldn't be used for homicidal, let alone genocidal gassings anyway so I can only assume that you and others that have remained silent on that agree with him.

it really is a whole new level of horseshit which makes your form of 'revisionism' as cranky as the moon being made of cheese or the Earth is a plate riding on the back of a giant turtle.

That Flare type of lunacy is making 'revisionists' look mental thus supporting the official narrative.

And the big part is exactly your problem. It is your autism, you cannot help it.

You haven't reacted on many posts either, so according to your own "standards", that means you agree with them.

Failed. Again.
PS if it's Dutch cheese that you think the moon is made of it's going to be the blandest tasting and rubbery moon that ever was.

Poor Rattyboy, has never tasted good Dutch cheese. Back in your rabbit hole, roving rodent.
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 15:44 #3516

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Frothy wrote:
Flare wrote:
Frothy wrote:
Looks like you've got issues.

it's a response to your ridiculous notion that;


Flare
ZyklonB was an insecticide, which couldn't be used for homocidal, let alone genocidal gassings anyway

How did you ever get to needing to moderate an 8 word sentence?
#shitforbrains
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 16:02 #3517

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Auschwitz installs vapour showers

:roll:
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 19:45 #3518

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:scheme:
Once a hyena always a hyena.
Last Edit: 27 Aug 2019 19:48 by Frothy.
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 19:47 #3519

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Gaia wrote:
Frothy wrote:
Gaia wrote:
Frothy wrote:
the narrative is that it was the excess Jews that were gassed, the nazis kept enough of them alive to carry out the slave chores.

If that were indeed the case, the able-bodied men between 15 and 55 would have died en masse in labor camps and the "excess" jews would be gassed to lampshades in the specifically prepared "death camps" of Reinhard Heydrich.

Even there the official narrative doesn't add up. At all.

Busted. Again.

The narrative is that Auschwitz was one of the few camps that had a slave labour use, as well as a mass homicidal death facility. So there wound't be need to deport 'prisoners' for gassing to other places.

You're digging yourself even deeper in the stinking mass grave in Polish permafrost, priceless!
Afaik the lampshade was an individual occurrence and not a usual practice.

It is a story even the mainstream debunked themselves and STILL they, and you here included, keep pushing that bullshit.

You do know that the "shrunken heads" were not jews, but Paracas indigenous people from Peru, right?
But anyway you're not critical of Flare's notion that ZyklonB was an insecticide, which couldn't be used for homicidal, let alone genocidal gassings anyway so I can only assume that you and others that have remained silent on that agree with him.

it really is a whole new level of horseshit which makes your form of 'revisionism' as cranky as the moon being made of cheese or the Earth is a plate riding on the back of a giant turtle.

That Flare type of lunacy is making 'revisionists' look mental thus supporting the official narrative.

And the big part is exactly your problem. It is your autism, you cannot help it.

You haven't reacted on many posts either, so according to your own "standards", that means you agree with them.

Failed. Again.
PS if it's Dutch cheese that you think the moon is made of it's going to be the blandest tasting and rubbery moon that ever was.

Poor Rattyboy, has never tasted good Dutch cheese. Back in your rabbit hole, roving rodent.

Do you agree with Flare that ''ZyklonB was an insecticide, which couldn't be used for homocidal, let alone genocidal gassings anyway''

A simply yes or no will suffice.
Once a hyena always a hyena.
Last Edit: 27 Aug 2019 19:49 by Frothy.
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The Holocaust 27 Aug 2019 20:00 #3520

  • Lux Interior
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Frothy wrote:
Gaia wrote:
Frothy wrote:
Gaia wrote:
Frothy wrote:
the narrative is that it was the excess Jews that were gassed, the nazis kept enough of them alive to carry out the slave chores.

If that were indeed the case, the able-bodied men between 15 and 55 would have died en masse in labor camps and the "excess" jews would be gassed to lampshades in the specifically prepared "death camps" of Reinhard Heydrich.

Even there the official narrative doesn't add up. At all.

Busted. Again.

The narrative is that Auschwitz was one of the few camps that had a slave labour use, as well as a mass homicidal death facility. So there wound't be need to deport 'prisoners' for gassing to other places.

You're digging yourself even deeper in the stinking mass grave in Polish permafrost, priceless!
Afaik the lampshade was an individual occurrence and not a usual practice.

It is a story even the mainstream debunked themselves and STILL they, and you here included, keep pushing that bullshit.

You do know that the "shrunken heads" were not jews, but Paracas indigenous people from Peru, right?
But anyway you're not critical of Flare's notion that ZyklonB was an insecticide, which couldn't be used for homicidal, let alone genocidal gassings anyway so I can only assume that you and others that have remained silent on that agree with him.

it really is a whole new level of horseshit which makes your form of 'revisionism' as cranky as the moon being made of cheese or the Earth is a plate riding on the back of a giant turtle.

That Flare type of lunacy is making 'revisionists' look mental thus supporting the official narrative.

And the big part is exactly your problem. It is your autism, you cannot help it.

You haven't reacted on many posts either, so according to your own "standards", that means you agree with them.

Failed. Again.
PS if it's Dutch cheese that you think the moon is made of it's going to be the blandest tasting and rubbery moon that ever was.

Poor Rattyboy, has never tasted good Dutch cheese. Back in your rabbit hole, roving rodent.

Do you agree with Flare that ''ZyklonB was an insecticide, which couldn't be used for homocidal, let alone genocidal gassings anyway''

A simply yes or no will suffice.
Stop masturbating, just stop, now.
liberabo te ab inferno

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