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TOPIC: The Holocaust

The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 13:23 #61

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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 13:36 #62

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Blue_Tackler wrote:
Voltaire wrote:
Before this discourse gets into the usual twists can we establish first:
Do you agree/disagree that Zyklon B was created as a pesticide?

It appears that some concentrations of Zyklon were pesticides but the B version was higher in concentration so killed humans?

Zyklon B is totally inappropriate to poison humans.

Zyklon B is Zyklon B, an insecticide.

This how it looks at room temperature.



As you know, Pressac concluded only 5% of Zyklon B was allegedly used to gas the jews. 5%.
Ridiculous claim, but he had to claim it, otherwise he would face an inquisition court if he concluded 0%.

For same reason the sign at Dachau reads what it reads, due to inquisition, they have to claim gas chamber, but added truthfully that it was never used as gas chamber.

Moron.

So how did the Germans squeeze the pellets through the shower heads of the shower rooms?
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blue_tackler wrote:
the lice are only going to jump onto other typhus victim

Prime example of holocaustianity mental issues, clinically insane, and utterly ill informed, a danger to public health if this dude was working for CDC.
Last Edit: 04 Aug 2014 13:38 by Oracle.
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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 13:43 #63

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Zyklon B is totally inappropriate to poison humans.

Yas and No

The no bit is that once it has vaporosed and is a gas it is poisonous which is why the rooms (delousing chambers) need venting before workers could enter and remove the disinfected items.

Oh and also why eyewitness testimony of enrting the gas chambers immediately after everyone was dead in order to remove the bodies, wearing no gas masks is risible.


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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 13:44 #64

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Zyklon is an insecticide but the concentration of the B strength kills humans.
I suggest that this information is absorbed by all before further comment about Zyklon B and gas/disinfection.

holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/
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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 13:48 #65

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Voltaire wrote:
Zyklon B is totally inappropriate to poison humans.

Yas and No

The no bit is that once it has vaporosed and is a gas it is poisonous which is why the rooms (delousing chambers) need venting before workers could enter and remove the disinfected items.

Oh and also why eyewitness testimony of enrting the gas chambers immediately after everyone was dead in order to remove the bodies, wearing no gas masks is risible.

Inappropriate in the sense that Germans had an arsenal of deadly nerve agents, such as Tabun, Sarin or Soman killing in milliseconds. Yet the Germans allegedly were so stupid to use a compound which is highly expensive to produce, which requires very much energy, and which only slowly suffocates a human being in ~40 minutes. Stupid Germans.
Calculate how long it would have taken the Germans to kill the BS 6 million. They would probably have finished it today.

The Bolsheviks killed cost effective with a bullet in the neck. Only Germans are so stupid to use Zyklon B, while having apart from cheap bullets nerve agents at disposal.

Jewipedia:
In mid-1939, the formula for the agent was passed to the chemical warfare section of the German Army Weapons Office, which ordered that it be brought into mass production for wartime use. A number of pilot plants were built, and a high-production facility was under construction (but was not finished) by the end of World War II. Estimates for total sarin production by Nazi Germany range from 500 kg to 10 tons.[25] Though sarin, tabun and soman were incorporated into artillery shells, Germany did not use nerve agents against Allied targets.
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blue_tackler wrote:
the lice are only going to jump onto other typhus victim

Prime example of holocaustianity mental issues, clinically insane, and utterly ill informed, a danger to public health if this dude was working for CDC.
Last Edit: 04 Aug 2014 13:55 by Oracle.
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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 13:49 #66

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I was being pedantic in that I didnt want to have to later cover the ground. You are correct - Germans had more efficient means of mass murder, if that was the plan.


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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 13:54 #67

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Voltaire wrote
Oh and also why eyewitness testimony of enrting the gas chambers immediately after everyone was dead in order to remove the bodies, wearing no gas masks is risible.
A. Prufer was an expert. he designed and constructed these crematoriums and led the building operations in the concentration camps. I was responsible for the ventilation systems and for its air injection into the muffles. In specific instances, I led the installation operations personally. I personally led the installation work in Auschwitz crematoriums and gas chambers. For this purpose, I traveled to Auschwitz three times in 1943
fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/RESOURCE/DOCUMENT/DOCTEST1.HTM

I suspect they had a ventilation system in the chambers too.
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Last Edit: 04 Aug 2014 13:56 by Frothy.
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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 13:57 #68

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Blue_Tackler wrote:
Voltaire wrote
Oh and also why eyewitness testimony of enrting the gas chambers immediately after everyone was dead in order to remove the bodies, wearing no gas masks is risible.
A. Prufer was an expert. he designed and constructed these crematoriums and led the building operations in the concentration camps. I was responsible for the ventilation systems and for its air injection into the muffles. In specific instances, I led the installation operations personally. I personally led the installation work in Auschwitz crematoriums and gas chambers. For this purpose, I traveled to Auschwitz three times in 1943
fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/RESOURCE/DOCUMENT/DOCTEST1.HTM

I suspect they had a ventilation system in the chambers too.

Don't play stupid.

Read the Lüftl report on that.
Also the Leuchter report sheds light on your fantasy.

Needless to say, they are persecuted.

First you claim you don't know about the technical details, but you assume ventilation was present in the alleged "homicidal gas chambers". :facepalm:
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the lice are only going to jump onto other typhus victim

Prime example of holocaustianity mental issues, clinically insane, and utterly ill informed, a danger to public health if this dude was working for CDC.
Last Edit: 04 Aug 2014 13:58 by Oracle.
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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 13:59 #69

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the testimonies dont mention waiting for ventilation - they went in immediately. Suspecting a ventilation system is not the same as actually having one but you are assuming there were gas chambers so - back to basics - provide an example and explain how it worked. You will the first person ever to do this if you manage it.


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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 14:04 #70

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Following ventilation of the gas chamber, the corpses were removed, loaded onto iron wagons and transported by a narrow-gauge railway for a distance of several hundred meters and there buried in deep pits. All the personal belongings the people had brought with them had to be left at the “Judenrampe”- the owners were told that their things would be sent on to the camp separately.
www.holocaustresearchproject.org/othercamps/auschwitzgaschambers.html

oracle wrote
First you claim you don't know about the technical details, but you assume ventilation was present in the alleged "homicidal gas chambers". :facepalm:

Yes I've just looked it up and posted that. so?

Is our 'friend' in the video footage an actor or a witness under duress, have you decided yet?
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Last Edit: 04 Aug 2014 14:07 by Frothy.
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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 14:15 #71

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Voltaire wrote:
the testimonies dont mention waiting for ventilation - they went in immediately. Suspecting a ventilation system is not the same as actually having one but you are assuming there were gas chambers so - back to basics - provide an example and explain how it worked. You will the first person ever to do this if you manage it.

I'm unsure if this is the ventilation system from the gas chamber or the furnace it's from the previous link that I posted.
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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 14:30 #72

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There remains the question of the 20 hours, which despite appearances, is very difficult to integrate in the picture of a homicidal gas chamber. I shall argue on the basis of Leichenkeller I (500 to 550 cubic meters) of Krematorien II and III. The SS chose Zyklon-B for its high degree of toxicity on warm blooded animals, including man. The meticulous care stipulated in NI 9912 has no sense in homicidal gassing, because this changes the situation radically. The space where the gas was used was closed and gas tight. No furniture, bedding or floor covering. The floor, walls and ceilings were of bare concrete (except for about twenty dummy wooden shower heads installed in the ceiling). Forced draught ventilation would be relatively efficient in these circumstances. After 15 minutes of ventilation the air in the room would be completely renewed. A homicidal gassing (using 5 to 7kg of Zyklon-B for 1,000 to 2,000 persons) would last about 20 minutes: 5 minutes for the action of the HCN bringing swift death (the quantity introduced being 40 times the lethal dose) and 15 minutes of ventilation BEFORE BEING ABLE TO OPEN THE GAS TIGHT DOOR. Although a part of the toxic gas had been inhaled by the victims, this was negligible with respect to the quantity remaining, due to the initial overdose.

Here, Faurisson is right when he states that the operating sequences as described by the witnesses give rise to an almost insurmountable difficulty. For example, Camp Commandant Hoess and Dr. Nyiszli report EXACTLY the same sequence: pouring of Zyklon-B through the openings In the ceiling, the pellets running down the four wire-mesh columns and rapid diffusion of HCN by evaporation in the room "preheated" by human body heat. In 5 or l0 minutes, everybody was dead. Then there was a FURTHER wait of 20 to 30 minutes BEFORE switching on the ventilation. The door was opened and the extraction of bodies commenced immediately ("sofort"). This is the process as SEEN AND HEARD by witnesses. But why wait 20 to 30 minutes after the complete death of the victims before opening the door? This is waste of time when we consider the rapid throughput rates imposed by the SS, always in a hurry. Hoess and Nyiszli are mistaken as regards the moment at which the ventilation began. It was in fact switched on not more than 10 minutes AFTER the introduction of the gas and it was left running FOR 20 to 30 minutes BEFORE the door was opened. The witnesses state the contrary, and for them it is the truth. The fact is that as long as the gas tight door remained closed, no SOUND could be heard and people could see INTO the gas chamber only through the inspection peephole. The switching on of the ventilation could not be heard because the motor was located in the roof space of the Krematorium and the witnesses were in the basement. What is more, there were five or six electric motors in the root space, three of them being used for other ventilation systems. How was it possible to distinguish the noise of the gas chamber ventilation motor if that of the furnace room, of the same power, was running at the same time? In truth, the witnesses HEARD the noise of the ventilator fans WHEN the door was opened and they had THE IMPRESSION that the ventilation had just been switched on.
www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/pressac0016.shtml
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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 14:35 #73

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Then the ventilation fans were switched on and after a short time the corpses were pulled out by the Krematoriumskommando.
www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/gas_chambers_sachsenhausen.html
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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 14:37 #74

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Wouldn't it have been even easier, cheaper and faster to have a lot of people breath in one room - as testified - and just do NOTHING except wait until the oxygen was gone?

:dunno:
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 14:38 #75

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an article by R Faurisson at IHR
www.ihr.org/jhr/v02/v02p312_Faurisson.html

its rather long so i am editing it - if anyone thinks i have cherry picked please point that out

Note while Faurisson is talking about Zyklon B - he also mentions hydrocyanic acid - which is given off by Zyklon B
When later in the article he writes
This gas can be used in pressurized fumigation chambers. It is used in the United States for the execution of a person condemned to death in the gas chamber.
he is referring to the gas NOT Zyklon B
The Gas Chambers of Auschwitz Appear to be Physically Inconceivable
Dr. ROBERT FAURISSON

Zyklon B is a hydrocyanic acid that is given off by evaporation.

It is used for the disinfection of ships, silos and dwellings as well as for the destruction of pests.

It is still manufactured today in Frankfurt-on-Main. It is sold in Western Europe, in Eastern Europe, in the United States and nearly everwhere in the world.

Hydrocyanic gas is highly poisonous and very dangerous. One milligram per kilogram of body weight is sufficient to kill a man. In a closed place it will poison a man in several seconds and will kill him in several minutes. A man can lose consciousness and die by absorbing the gas through the skin.

This gas sticks to surfaces. It sticks not only to the skin and to the mucous membranes to the point of penetrating them, but it also sticks to wood, to plaster, to paint, and to cement, and it penetrates them. In an ordinary place where these materials are encountered, the gas cannot be ventilated after use; it is necessary to be contented with a natural airing-out process, which lasts nearly 24 hours.

Only specialized personnel, having gone through a period of instruction and having been awarded a diploma, can use this product or gas. They must wear gas masks with special filtering cartridges for hydrocyanic acid.

The preparations necessary for the gassing of a place, for example a dwelling place, are long and meticulous, especially in order to obtain a good air-tightness.

The granules of Zyklon from which the hydrocyanic gas is released are not thrown at random, are not scattered by chance. This would be too dangerous later on. It is necessary to assure a calculated distribution. The granules are set down on display napkins.

When the gas is thought to have ended its destructive work, it is necessary that specialized personnel enter the place in order to open everything that would permit a natural airing-out. This is the most critical moment. The airing-out presents the greatest danger for participants as well as for non-participants. It is therefore necessary to proceed with it with special prudence and always while wearing gas masks. As a rule it is necessary to air out the place in such a way as to be able to reach the open air as soon as possible and in such a way that the gas will be evacuated from a side where every risk for non-participants is excluded.

The airing-out lasts at least twenty hours.


Mattresses, bed rolls and cushions must be beaten or shaken for at least an hour because they are impregnated with gas.

This gas is inflammable and explosive; there must not be any naked flame in the vicinity and, most definitely, it is necessary not to smoke.

In a more general way, in order to enter a place where there is some hydrocyanic gas, it is necessary always to wear a gas mask with a particularly strong filter cartridge

This gas can be used in pressurized fumigation chambers. It is used in the United States for the execution of a person condemned to death in the gas chamber. One must see one of these chambers and be acquainted with the process of their use in order to realize the extent to which it is difficult and dangerous to use hydrocyanic gas in order to kill a single man.This gas can be used in pressurized fumigation chambers. It is used in the United States for the execution of a person condemned to death in the gas chamber. One must see one of these chambers and be acquainted with the process of their use in order to realize the extent to which it is difficult and dangerous to use hydrocyanic gas in order to kill a single man.

The gas is not evacuated toward a chimney in the direction of the air outside; this would be too dangerous. In fact, it is driven back in the direction of a mixer where it is neutralized by a chemical base (ammonia). The acid thus gives way to a salt which will be washed away with a great deal of water. Nevertheless, the place still remains dangerous for a long time, as does the corpse.

Beforehand, the simple preparation of the gas chamber for an execution will have required two days of work for two specialized men. The machinery is relatively important.

To use hydrocyanic gas to kill only one man is thus much more complicated and dangerous than one would generally imagine.

When one knows all this, one is quite surprised at reading the testimonies or confessions about the use that the Germans are supposed to have made of Zyklon B to execute not one man at a time but hundreds or thousands of human beings at a time. The most complete of those testimonies or confessions is that of the first of three successive commandants of Auschwitz: Rudolf Höss (whose name must not be confused with that of Rudolf Hess, the prisoner of Spandau). Rudolf Höss is supposed to have drawn up for his jailers and for his communist judges a confession whose text is supposed to have been reproduced in 1958, or eleven years later, in its original language by Dr. Martin Broszat, a member of the Institute for Contemporary History in Munich. That confession is known to the general public under the title Commandant of Auschwitz. First on page 166 , then on page 126 of the German edition of the book one learns this:

...A half hour after having released the gas (i.e. Zyklon B), they would open the door (of the gas chamber where there are several thousands of victims) and would start the apparatus for airing it out. They would begin immediately to take out the bodies.

He goes on to say that this tremendous job of taking out thousands of bodies, from which they removed the gold teeth or cut the hair, was carried out by resigned and indifferent people who during all that time did not cease to smoke and to eat.

If those people smoked and ate, they were not even wearing gas masks. How could they smoke in a place with vapors from an inflammable and explosive gas? How could all of that be done near the doors of the crematory ovens in which they were burning thousands of bodies? How could they enter into a gas chamber still full of gas to handle those bodies that were full of gas, and that immediately after the opening of the door? How could they devote themselves to such a gigantic job for some hours when specialists, equipped with masks, can only remain in such an atmosphere for several minutes and on condition that they only devote themselves to efforts that do not go beyond the effort required to open windows that are easy to open? How could they, with bare hands, extract teeth and cut hair when one knows that, in an American gas chamber, the first concern of the doctor who enters into the cockpit with mask involves tousling the hair of the corpse with his rubber-gloved hands in order to expel from it the molecules of hydrocyanic gas which have remained in the hair of that corpse in spite of all of the precautions taken? Who are these beings endowed with supernatural powers? From what world do these tremendous creatures come? Do they belong to our world which is ruled by inflexible, known laws of the physicist, the doctor, the chemist, the toxicologist? Or do they indeed belong to the world of the imagination where all those laws, even the law of gravity, are overcome by magic or disappear by enchantment?


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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 15:35 #76

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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 15:49 #77

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Blue_Tackler wrote:
Voltaire wrote:
the testimonies dont mention waiting for ventilation - they went in immediately. Suspecting a ventilation system is not the same as actually having one but you are assuming there were gas chambers so - back to basics - provide an example and explain how it worked. You will the first person ever to do this if you manage it.

I'm unsure if this is the ventilation system from the gas chamber or the furnace it's from the previous link that I posted.

This is a joke, right?

Show me where you suspect the ventilation on that flimsy picture. :iitm:

Read the Leuchter and Lüftl and Rudolf report.

www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p391_Luftl.html
archive.org/details/TheRudolfReport
www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/
This study already demonstrates the complete bankruptcy of the traditional (Holocaust) history ... a history based for the most part on testimonies, assembled according to the need of the moment, truncated to ft an arbitrary truth and sprinkled with a few German documents of uneven value and without any connection with one another.

J.C.Pressac

The truth about what Revisionists claim, in summary, is this:

1) The Jewish Holocaust is but one of many Holocausts even in the twentieth century;

2) THE METHOD: There were no gas chambers and no attempt by the Germans to exterminate Jewry, expulsion being very different from extermination;

3) THE NUMBERS: The common figure of six million is too large by 500% at least;

4) World War II was a slaughterhouse of unprecedented proportions for everyone involved -- not just Jews, who made up perhaps 2% of the total fatalities;

5) THE PLAN: There was no Hitler order to exterminate Europe's Jews. There is no documented instance of any plans to exterminate the Jews.

In 50 or 100 years, when the Holocaust Myth has met its proper demise, what Revisionists believe today will be standard historical canon from which only cranks and religious zealots will dissent.
www.revisionists.com/revisionism.html

exposing-the-holocaust-hoax-archive.blogspot.de/2014/05/holohoax-deprogramming-course-syllabus.html
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the lice are only going to jump onto other typhus victim

Prime example of holocaustianity mental issues, clinically insane, and utterly ill informed, a danger to public health if this dude was working for CDC.
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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 15:51 #78

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Voltaire
He goes on to say that this tremendous job of taking out thousands of bodies, from which they removed the gold teeth or cut the hair, was carried out by resigned and indifferent people who during all that time did not cease to smoke and to eat.

That alone makes your post ridiculous.

It was said to be carried out by Ukrainians who were forced to work.

The hair cutting etc... and removal of valuables was said to be done before the gassings.

it was often forced ventilation being used and the only furnishings were the fake shower heads.
wood, plaster paint cement, lol the chambers were empty and tiled.
Gas chamber - Interior wall finish:
a) “The walls of the room were covered with small, white tiles. It was very fine, clean work.” (Krzepicki, Donat, p.104)
b) “Its walls were covered with small white tiles.” (Demjanjuk, Teicholz, p.9)
c) “The walls of the gas chamber were covered with white tiles up to a certain height.” (Kogon, p.115)
Gas chamber - Interior floor finish:
a) “The floor was covered with orange terra cotta tiles.” (Krzepicki, Donat, p.104)
b) “The floor was covered with terra-cotta tiles.” (Demjanjuk, Teicholz p.9)
c) “...a baked tile floor slanting towards the platform.” (Wiernik, Donat, p.157)
d) “The floor of the gas chamber was sloping and slippery.” (Krzepicki, Donat, p.35)
www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/gas_chambers_trebcad.html

Orange tiles, hmph just like the one discovered by Caroline what's her face?
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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 15:52 #79

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Blue_Tackler wrote:
This picture reads "delousing chamber" in German, moron, which indeed had vetilation. :larf:

Nobody denies that delousing took place in specifically designed little chambers.

Be aware, you deal with lots of German speaking people here, you cannot fool them.
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blue_tackler wrote:
the lice are only going to jump onto other typhus victim

Prime example of holocaustianity mental issues, clinically insane, and utterly ill informed, a danger to public health if this dude was working for CDC.
Last Edit: 04 Aug 2014 15:54 by Oracle.
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The Holocaust 04 Aug 2014 15:56 #80

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Oracle

I'm still wondering what your answer will be?
Please confirm if you think Franz Suchomel 'video' evidence is.

1) Genuine and truthful
2) He does not exist thus really just an actor
3) A real SS personnel based at Treblinka but falsely testifying because of being tortured.
4) Other?

You've already picked two. 2) & 3)

So which is it 2) or 3) ? :iitm:
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No one is obliged to donate, please only donate what you can afford. Even the smallest amount helps. Being an active member is a positive contribution. Thank You.