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TOPIC: Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax

Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 29 Apr 2015 14:07 #1

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Leuchter, Rudolf and the Iron Blues

an essay by Richard J. Green
Version 6.0.


ABSTRACT: Leuchter and Rudolf have published pseudoscientific reports purporting to show that chemical residues present in the gas chambers of Auschwitz-Birkenau are incompatible with homicidal gassings. Markiewicz, Gubala, and Labedz have shown unequivocally that cyanides are present in Kremas I-V and bunker 11, at levels above background levels measured in other facilities. Many of the delousing chambers exhibit blue-staining that is not obviously present in the homicidal gas chambers. Leuchter and Rudolf found higher levels of cyanide in these installations than they found in the homicidal gas chambers. The blue-staining present in the delousing chambers is most likely one of the iron blues, a class of compound including Prussian blue. Markiewicz, Gubala, and Labedz discriminated against the presence of this compound, whereas Leuchter and Rudolf did not. The findings of Leuchter and Rudolf do not contain much information beyond what is already obvious to the naked eye. Understanding the formation of Prussian blue is essential to understanding the importance of the findings of Markiewicz, Gubala, and Labedz. Industrial methods of producing Prussian blue are reviewed briefly. Rudolf's proposed mechanism of Prussian blue formation is examined. It is unlikely that Prussian blue would have formed in the gas chambers under the conditions under which they were operated. Slight variation in conditions could change that probability and that is perhaps the explanation for the presence of Prussian blue in the delousing chambers and the gas chamber at Majdanek. Alich et al. found that the formation of Prussian blue is extremely sensitive to cyanide concentration and pH. Several attempts to make Prussian blue form exposing construction materials to HCN failed. The burden of proof that Prussian blue must have formed under the conditions present in the gas chambers is on the deniers.




Recently a number of "forensic" reports presented by Holocaust-deniers purport to show that homicidal gassings at Auschwitz-Birkenau (AB) did not occur. The agent of murder in the gas chambers of AB was Zyklon-B. Zyklon-B is a solid support impregnated with hydrogen cyanide. A discussion of the chemistry of mass murder with Zyklon-B as well as an analysis of several of these pseudoscientific reports and a real forensic analysis don by the Institute for Forensic Research in Cracow (IFRC) can be found in the article The Chemistry of Auschwitz. Germar Rudolf 1 among others has made the claim that homicidal gassings could not have occurred in the homicidal gas chambers of AB. His argument relies on the fact that there is blue staining present on facilities where Zyklon-B was used for delousing but no apparent staining in the facilities in which Zyklon-B was used for homicidal purposes. He claims to have measured more cyanide content in the stained walls than in the unstained walls and concludes that the levels of cyanide present in the homicidal gas chambers are not consistent with homicidal gassing. Leuchter 2 has also made analogous measurements with analogous claims.

Presence of Cyanides in Gassing Facilities and Apparent Absence of Prussian Blue
Markiewicz, Gubala, and Labedz of the Institute for Forensic Research, Cracow demonstrated that HCN was present in the homicidal gas chambers, i.e., Krema I, Krema II, Krema III, Krema IV, Krema V, and the cellars of Bunker 11, at levels above other facilities in the AB complex. 3 They took several samples from Bunker 11, and Kremas I-V. They found levels of cyanide significantly higher than background levels in all of these sites of homicidal gassing. They used a carefully calibrated method in which their calibration curve was checked with known standards in the process of running the sample. The analysis was conducted by a separate team from the sample collection team to insure objectivity. Unlike the Holocaust-deniers, they used a carefully calibrated method that discriminated against the iron blue compounds, such as Prussian blue , that are believed to be responsible for the above-mentioned staining.
The purpose of this essay is to look closer at this blue staining, what it is, how it could have formed, and whether its absence in the homicidal gas chambers of AB can reasonably be interpreted to mean that homicidal gassings did not take place there. Owing to the fact that Rudolf and Leuchter did not discriminate against iron blue compounds, the fact that they measure more cyanide compounds in the delousing chambers than in the homicidal gas chambers is functionally no different than the observation that the blue-staining is present in the delousing chambers and not in the homicidal chambers. In other words, they have found nothing by measurement that is not apparent without measurement. By a carefully thought out experiment, Markiewicz, Gubala, and Labedz have provided real information.

The fact that there is obvious blue-staining in the delousing chambers and not in the homicidal chambers of AB is not in dispute here. It should be mentioned, however, that at the Majdanek death camp there is indeed blue-staining on the homicidal gas chambers. 4,5 Additionally, the staining is not present on all known delousing chambers. One is left immediately to ponder why it would be argued that such staining is a necessary consequence of the use of hydrogen cyanide (HCN).

Owing to the fact that he cannot think of a mechanism by which the Prussian blue could form from iron in its third oxidation state (as present in brick), Bailer 6 speculates that the presence of iron blues may be because of paint rather than exposure to HCN vapor (iron blues are commonly used as pigments in paints). Bailer's speculation, although it is certainly more reasonable than the claims of Rudolf that homicidal gassings did not occur at AB, must still be viewed with skepticism. If paint was indeed used on these facilities, it should be possible to find evidence that such paint was purchased and applied. The paint hypothesis needs more evidence to support it, if it is to be believed.

A few points should be made clear:

1.Some of the delousing chambers exhibit blue-staining, whereas some of the homicidal gas chambers do not. Because Rudolf and Leuchter chose to include this blue-stained material in their samples, their measurements do not provide more information than visual inspection except as an exercise in fooling the public by putting numbers to what is apparent to the eye. In other words, by not discriminating against Prussian blue they have introduced a bias into using the delousing chambers as a control. They have not thereby contributed to understanding why a discrepancy in the level of Prussian blue exists.

2.The blue-stained material is characteristic of a class of compounds called the iron blues, of which Prussian blue is a member. Although Bailer4 has suggested that the blue color may come from paint, that explanation seems unlikely. Observers of the staining at Majdanek describe it as splotchy and saturated deep within the building materials.

3.In order for Prussian blue to form, it is necessary either to have a source of Fe(II), Fe(0), or an agent that can reduce Fe(III) to Fe(II). If a reducing agent is present, the conditions must be right to cause reduction. This point is explained further in some depth, below.

4.The Institute for Forensic Research, Cracow, discriminated against Prussian blue compounds so as not to introduce a bias in the control. They found unequivocally, that all buildings said to have been in contact with HCN at Auschwitz-Birkenau had traces of cyanides significantly above the background of other buildings at Auschwitz-Birkenau.

Prussian blue once formed is much less susceptible to weathering than are other forms of cyanides. Rudolf himself acknowleges this fact: 4


If the hydrocyanic acid from the Zyklon B had bonded with the brickwork only through the process of adsorption, then due to the volatility of hydrocyanic acid (boiling point: 25.7C) it would no longer be possible today to detect any hydrocyanic acid residues in the remaining walls.

This argument neglects the fact that hydrogen cyanide is a weak acid that can form salts, such as potassium cyanide, fails to address the binding of chemisorption, or the formation of other cyanide compounds; yet the point is not completely without merit. More significant, perhaps, is the fact that cyanide salts are highly water soluble unlike Prussian blue. Markiewicz et al. report that they were not optimistic at being able to detect cyanides so many years after exposure to HCN. Owing to the fact that they had legal access to their samples, however, they were able to plan sample collection in a manner likely to detect cyanides in locations that were relatively sheltered from the elements. The fact that they measured traces of cyanide not bound to iron in the homicidal gas chambers at levels above those observe in other buildings disproves the claims that such traces would not be measurable

In order for Leuchter or Rudolf to demonstrate the significance of their findings, it is necessary for them to prove the necessity of Prussian blue formation under the conditions that the homicidal gas chambers were operated. Showing that the delousing chambers have Prussian blue and that the homicidal gas chambers do not, proves nothing, if it cannot be shown that conditions in the gas chambers were such as to produce Prussian blue. I shall therefore turn my attention to Prussian blue, its formation and the conditions present in the gas chambers.


The Iron Blues and Their Industrial Preparation
There are a number of compounds known colloquially as the "iron blues." Insoluble Prussian Blue, for example, is Fe4[Fe(CN)6]3. It can be formed by the addition of Fe(II) to [Fe(III)(CN)6]-3. 7 It should be noted here that the distinction between soluble and insoluble is a matter of the ease with which the compound forms colloidal suspensions rather than any real difference in solubility. 7 This point is important when addressing the possible degradation of Prussian blue. While I will not argue that degradation of Prussian blue is the cause of its absence from the homicidal gas chambers, this hypothesis should not be rejected as a possibility out of hand.
There are 3 methods generally used for the preparation of soluble iron blues described by Holtzman. 8 Insoluble blues can be prepared by subsequent reaction of soluble blues with various metal cations (see table II in Holtzman). The three methods are
1.mixing a ferric (Fe(III)) salt with a ferrocyanide Fe(II),
2.mixing a ferrous (Fe(II)) salt with ferricyanide Fe(III), and
3. mixing a ferrous salt with a ferrocyanide, followed by oxidation.

It should be noted that it is necessary to produce iron in a mixture of oxidation states or perhaps in a resonance structure of mixed states. Bailer argues for the improbability of Prussian blue formation for exactly that reason.


Rudolf's Proposed Mechanism
Rudolf, 1,4 in his own persona and also under the alias 9 "E. Gauss," 10 has with some bombast criticized Bailer for not noting the possibility that HCN itself could be the reducing agent responsible for converting iron (III) into iron (II). Even stranger synthesis of iron blues have been reported. 11 Rudolf cites in support of his claim a paper by Alich, Howarth, and Johnson.12 Apparently, he did not read this paper very carefully. The authors investigate the reduction of [Fe(CN)6]3- by aqueous and ethanolic solutions of CN-. They suggest that CN- is indeed the reducing agent, but their inability to observe CNO- must suggest that this claim is inconclusive. DeWet and Rolle have claimed that Fe(III)Fe(III)(CN)6 can be reduced to a Prussian blue compound with water. 13 The observation by Alich et al. that addition of water inhibits the reaction, perhaps, makes the supposition that HCN is the reducing agent more plausible despite their inability to observe CNO-.
What the reducing agent is, however, may be academic. The relevant question is whether such a mechanism to form Prussian blue would necessarily have been operative in the gas chambers.

Alich et al. show that Prussian Blue does not form in water unless there is an excess of CN- ions compared to Fe(III) or very basic conditions. 14


The dilution of the absolute stock solutions of Fe(III) and Fe(CN)63-with absolute ethanol gave the red complex which persisted for about 1 hour, as compared to the disappearance of the red complex in the aqueous media at a dilution of 3.3 * 10-4 M. The red complex in ethanol darkened within the hour and reduction to Prussian Blue was complete in 2 days (Fig. 3).

Now comes the important part:


It is to be noted that the complex in aqueous solution, under the same conditions, decomposes immediately, the spectrum reverting to that of the Fe(CN)63- ion. Furthermore, addition of as little as 13% water (by volume) caused the red complex to decompose, giving a spectrum of the Fe(CN)63- ion.

Conditions in the Homicidal Gas chambers at Auschwitz Birkenau.

In other words, Prussian blue only forms with very high concentrations of CN-. The concentrations in the gas chambers were such that ambient water, given time to reach equilibrium, might theoretically have approached concentrations of 0.2 or 0.3 M - but more likely on the order of 0.1 M or below - as shown in Appendix I.

That such an equilibrium concentration could have been reached during the time span of an actual gassing is doubtful. This concentration is the equilibrium value. Absorption of HCN by water would undoubtedly be kinetically limited, i.e., the concentration would be limited by how fast the absorption process can occur. The equilibrium concentration assumes that the water has been exposed to HCN long enough that the rate of HCN leaving solution into the gas phase is equal to the rate at which HCN from the gas phase is being absorbed by the water.

Most importantly one must recall that the gas chambers were hosed down with water after gassings to clean up blood and excrement.15 Considering that the ambient water would have been quite small, providing 100 times dilution would have been trivial. This effect may actually be the explanation for the presence of Prussian blue in the delousing chambers yet its absence in the homicidal chambers. Some further research will be necessary to support this supposition conclusively.

Prussian blue formation is exceedingly sensitive to concentration and also to pH. Very small effects could tip the balance between whether Prussian blue forms or not. Alich et al. found a strong pH dependence to the reaction. The presence of human beings in the gas chambers could also help tip the balance. CO2 is an acid anhydride and there would have been a lot of it in the homicidal chambers. An acid anhydride is a substance that increases the acidity of a solution when it becomes solvated. Even atmospheric concentrations of CO2 (at 360 ppm today, about 330 ppm then) are sufficient to cause pure rain water to have a pH of 5.6. Human beings exhale about 4% CO2, so the pH could be quite a bit lower. For example at 2% CO2 the pH would be below 4.8. Appendix II derives the relationship between carbon dioxide concentration and pH.

Low pH inhibits the reaction. Additionally, a lower pH will drive the HCN from solution, making the CN- more dilute at the outset. For completeness, it should be added that these factors may be somewhat mitigated by the use of limewash (Ca(OH)2) which is slightly water soluble and could boost the pH. A pure solution of Ca(OH)2 can reach a pH as high as 12 (see the Merck Index), but coatings with limewash hardly provide such conditions.

Another point should be noted here. The conditions outlined here are for the formation of Prussian blue in the presence of cyanide ions and Fe(CN)63-. In the gas chambers Fe(III) would have been present in the brickwork and cyanide ions from the HCN itself, but Alich et. al. note: "The spectra of solutions containing only Fe(III) and CN- ion indicated only the acid hydrolysis of Fe(III)." 16 Prussian blue did not form.

The experimental evidence that Prussian blue formation is not a necessity with the presence of HCN and construction materials is strong. Markiewicz et al. 17 were not able to produce such pigments in experiments with HCN and building materials. Additionally, Rudolf did an experiment in which he exposed a brick to HCN and yet found no detectable level of cyanides within the sensitivity of his analytical method. 18 These failures to produce Prussian blue are sufficient to demonstrate that its formation at detectable levels is not a necessary result of exposure to HCN.


Conclusion
Whereas it would be premature to claim that I have explained why Prussian blue is present in the delousing chambers and not in the gas chambers, I have certainly shown that Rudolf's proposed mechanism is unlikely to have been operative in the homicidal gas chambers. More importantly, I have shown that the formation of Prussian blue is subject to very subtle influences of the conditions present. Slight changes in condition may have been sufficient to push the balance one way or the other. Yet the burden of proof here lies with the deniers. They claim to prove that gassings could not have occurred in the gas chambers. To make such an argument, they need to demonstrate that their proposed mechanism of Prussian blue formation must be operative in the gas chambers under the precise conditions under which they were operated. Their task is daunting. Any claim made on the basis of the absence of Prussian blue is at best empty speculation. Add to that the evidence that cyanides were indeed present in the homicidal gas chambers, that witnesses claim that gassings took place there, that the perpetrators admitted to their crimes, and that 1 to 1.5 million people were deported to Auschwitz-Birkenau and never returned, and we can label Rudolf's work willful distortion of the evidence.


Appendix I: Absorption by Water and Henry's Law

Appendix II: The Effect of Carbon Dioxide on pH
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Last Edit: 29 Apr 2015 14:08 by Frothy.
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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 29 Apr 2015 17:46 #2

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I am glad you brought this up. As with the photon hoax I will take this issue on.

Short answer is...

Bricks is Bricks, all contain Iron, and Zyklon is Cyanide. Bricks + Zyklon = Blue whatever way you cut it.

Unless the "gas chambers" were made of LEGO bricks, the defence against revisionist is as valid as claim WTC7 fell at free fall due to fire.

edit

wait, LEGO, like Ann Frankenstein's BIRO, came after the war....
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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 30 Apr 2015 08:27 #3

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rodin wrote:
I am glad you brought this up. As with the photon hoax I will take this issue on.

Short answer is...

Bricks is Bricks, all contain Iron, and Zyklon is Cyanide. Bricks + Zyklon = Blue whatever way you cut it.

Unless the "gas chambers" were made of LEGO bricks, the defence against revisionist is as valid as claim WTC7 fell at free fall due to fire.

edit

wait, LEGO, like Ann Frankenstein's BIRO, came after the war....



What you need to do is prove that Prussian blue forms everytime cyanide is used over a period of time and in different conditions, or you can't claim that no Prussian blue means no Cyanide.

Cyanide was detected in the chambers where no Prussian blue was formed, the problem you have is that there is no proof that Prussian will always form, and as written in the o/p moisture is likely a factor that prevents it from occurring, moisture from human beings and from cleaning up.

You can not prove at all that no Prussian blue = no cyanide.

The entire Prussian blue concept is debunked as a claim that it proves that no cyanide was used if the blue is not present.

If you try to cling onto that argument you need to show an experiment to prove the Prussian blue will always form when cyanide is used on brick, or admit that it proves nothing.

Remember the claim is 'No Prussian blue = no cyanide' now prove it. by showing an experiment that has been done using different conditions where Prussian blue was always formed,. Unless you can do this, the claim is worthless.

It's nothing like WTC building 7, as a building always acts that way in modern demolition when explosive charges are used, but there is no proof that Prussian blue will always form when cyanide is used on brick regardless of the conditions.
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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 30 Apr 2015 09:28 #4

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Even looking at your own argument about the Prussian blue, insects are more resistant to hydrogen cyanide than humans, so it is expected to find more Prussian blue in the delousing chambers than in the homicidal gas chambers. In other words, the results of the Leuchter report corroborates the mainstream historical account and not the beliefs of the resident neos.

:D

Though it's still unproven that Prussian blue will always form regardless of the conditions when cyanide is present on brick.
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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 30 Apr 2015 10:00 #5

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All that you are exposing - as usual - is another HEBREW BLUE tackler hoax

See





Nothing to do with






:thumbup:



RODIN'S FORENSIC EVIDENCE

rodin wrote:
Jewish Chemistry is as reliable as Jewish Physics
Zyklon B was the German trademark for a pesticide based on hydrogen cyanide (HCN). As every student of chemistry knows, hydrogen cyanide forms salts, often simply referred to as cyanides. Like hydrogen cyanide itself, these salts are usually highly poisonous. There is one group of cyanides, however, which are not poisonous at all. The best known representatives of this group are the iron cyanides, especially so-called Prussian blue, a pigment discovered in Prussia a few centuries ago. Every college student of chemistry knows Prussian blue, for one of the more important things a chemist must learn is how to dispose of poisonous cyanide salts without endangering life (including one's own). One simply makes Prussian blue out of it by adding certain iron compounds. Then it can be poured down the sink in good conscience, for Prussian blue is extremely stable and releases no cyanide into the environment.

Understanding the controversy surrounding the Leuchter Report is much easier if one keeps in mind that when hydrogen cyanide and certain iron compounds come together, they form Prussian blue. That is exactly the phenomenon that one can observe when entering the Zyklon B delousing facilities that were used across Europe during the Third Reich. A few of them, for example in the Auschwitz, Birkenau, Majdanek, and Stutthof concentration camps, are still intact today. All these facilities have one thing in common: their walls are permeated with Prussian blue. Not just the inner surfaces, but the mortar between the bricks, and even the outside walls of these delousing chambers abound in iron cyanides, exhibiting a patchy blue coloration. Nothing of the sort can be observed in the alleged homicidal "gas chambers" of Auschwitz and Birkenau.[see note]

The iron compounds needed to form Prussian blue are an integral part of all building materials: bricks, sand, and cement always contain a certain amount of rust (iron oxide, usually between 1 and 4 percent). That is what gives bricks their red, or ochre, color.

www.ihr.org/jhr/v20/v20n2p-3_Rudolf.html
fair tests conducted by Polish forensic scientists (who discriminated against iron-based compounds) confirmed the presence of cyanide in the locations and manner in accordance with where and how it was used in the Holocaust.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leuchter_report

Jewpedia says that the bricks in the gas chambers were fundamentally different from those in the delousing chambers, because they react differently with the gas. Except the bricks are the same, but hey, that's Jewish Chemistry, Jewish logic.
Source: truth-zone.net/forum/government-and-authority/64344-the-holocaust.html?start=1420#161112



More non-mainstream evidence => truth-zone.net/forum/general-discussion/63469-what-if-everything-you-were-taught-about-world-war-ii-was-a-lie.html

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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 30 Apr 2015 10:19 #6

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The Prussian blue hoax has been totally debunked, fizzywizzy proves this with her lame effort.
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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 30 Apr 2015 10:28 #7

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Q)Who has done an experiment to show that Prussian blue is always formed on the bricks when cyanide is used regardless of the conditions?
A)Nobody.

But it is true that stronger cyanide is needed to kill lice than humans, thus the chances of blue forming on the delousing chambers is greater, though cyanide has also been found in camp buildings where no blue is present, and not all delousing chambers have Prussian blue, thus Prussian blue is not a necessary consequence of cyanide.

:dunno:
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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 30 Apr 2015 10:59 #8

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The chemical process required to form Prussian blue was somewhat complicated, this explains why the entire wall isn't stained blue. It depends on certain ion, humidity, and other factors.

Human gas chambers would have more humidity within them, be washed down, and have a lesser concentration of cyanide.

So the lack of Prussian blue in the execution chambers does not mean that cyanide was not used, in fact cyanide at levels above other buildings in the camps has been found in the brickwork without Prussian blue being formed.
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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 30 Apr 2015 11:19 #9

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Deloused clothing hung up outside the four disinfection chambers, April 1945




Disinfection chamber with a door at each end, May 2001


Do you see blue?
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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 30 Apr 2015 11:24 #10

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Blue, anyone?
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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 30 Apr 2015 12:10 #11

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Anyone see Prussian blue?
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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 30 Apr 2015 12:16 #12

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Nope, I see no Prussian blue there either.

Dachau, Germany, Postwar, The delousing chamber.

collections.yadvashem.org/photosarchive/en-us/101278.html
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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 30 Apr 2015 12:23 #13

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Modern Holocaust deniers assert that Zyklon B gas was not used in the gas chambers, relying as evidence on the low levels of Prussian blue residue in samples of the purported gas chambers found by Fred A. Leuchter, which Leuchter dismissed as the results of general delousing of buildings. However, Leuchter's negative control, a sample of gasket material taken from a different building in the camp, registered as having no such cyanide residue.[6] The manager of the analytical laboratory hired by Leuchter states in an interview in Errol Morris' film Mr. Death: The Rise and Fall of Fred A. Leuchter, Jr., that Leuchter's thick samples of brick would have greatly diluted the cyanide residue, which forms only an extremely fine layer on the walls and cannot penetrate.

In 1994, the Institute for Forensic Research in Kraków re-examined this claim on the grounds that formation of Prussian blue by exposure of bricks to cyanide is not a highly probable reaction (Amoklauf gegen die Wirklichkeit. Praca zbiorowa; B. Gallanda, J. Bailer, F. Freund, T. Geisler, W. Lasek, N. Neugebauer, G. Spenn, W. Wegner; Bundesministerium fuer Unterricht und Kultur Wien, 1991). Using more sophisticated microdiffusion techniques, they tested 22 samples from the alleged gas chambers, delousing chambers (as positive controls), and living quarters (as negative controls), finding cyanide residue in both the delousing chambers and the ruins of the suggested gas chambers but none in the ruins of the living quarters, thus supporting the identification of the gas chambers as correct.[7]
www.chemeurope.com/en/encyclopedia/Zyklon_B.html
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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 30 Apr 2015 12:34 #14

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Here are the conditions for a typical delousing: A room with its furniture, empty of human beings, would be exposed to hydrogen cyanide escaping from Zyklon-B carrier, as the instructions recommended, for the course of 24 hours. This would allow for the carrier to release all the HCN therein and for the gas to then dissipate, making it safe to then enter the room.

Such conditions would necessarily leave serious amounts of HCN on the walls. In chambers specifically built for delousing, this would also account for deposits of Prussian blue on the walls, if the conditions are correct.

Here are the conditions for a typical homocidal gassing: A room bereft of furniture, but filled with human beings, would be exposed to a smaller amount of Zyklon-B. Because the temperature in the room would be perhaps as much as 20 degrees higher (Celsius) and because there would be considerably more humidity in the room, the result would be a quicker release of gas. Because less cyanide is needed to kill humans than lice, the required exposure time would be significantly decreased. And because the gas chambers had forced ventilation, or at the very least because the Sonderkommando wore gas masks, the rooms could be re-entered quickly and the bodies removed. This would leave relatively little cyanide residue on the walls. Nevertheless, the cyanide is there.

As shown on the above post
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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 19 Nov 2016 18:25 #15

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Rat wrote:
Here are the conditions for a typical delousing: A room with its furniture, empty of human beings, would be exposed to hydrogen cyanide escaping from Zyklon-B carrier, as the instructions recommended, for the course of 24 hours. This would allow for the carrier to release all the HCN therein and for the gas to then dissipate, making it safe to then enter the room.

Such conditions would necessarily leave serious amounts of HCN on the walls. In chambers specifically built for delousing, this would also account for deposits of Prussian blue on the walls, if the conditions are correct.

Here are the conditions for a typical homocidal gassing: A room bereft of furniture, but filled with human beings, would be exposed to a smaller amount of Zyklon-B. Because the temperature in the room would be perhaps as much as 20 degrees higher (Celsius) and because there would be considerably more humidity in the room, the result would be a quicker release of gas. Because less cyanide is needed to kill humans than lice, the required exposure time would be significantly decreased. And because the gas chambers had forced ventilation, or at the very least because the Sonderkommando wore gas masks, the rooms could be re-entered quickly and the bodies removed. This would leave relatively little cyanide residue on the walls. Nevertheless, the cyanide is there.

As shown on the above post

Less cyanide needed to kill humans than lice.

WTF are you talking about?

I've been trying to deal with black ants invading my terrace this weekend.

I've bought a special poison to kill them. The ants are dead but I'm still alive because it takes less toxin to kill the ants than to kill me.
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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 20 Nov 2016 04:14 #16

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Truthspoon wrote:
Rat wrote:
Here are the conditions for a typical delousing: A room with its furniture, empty of human beings, would be exposed to hydrogen cyanide escaping from Zyklon-B carrier, as the instructions recommended, for the course of 24 hours. This would allow for the carrier to release all the HCN therein and for the gas to then dissipate, making it safe to then enter the room.

Such conditions would necessarily leave serious amounts of HCN on the walls. In chambers specifically built for delousing, this would also account for deposits of Prussian blue on the walls, if the conditions are correct.

Here are the conditions for a typical homicidal gassing: A room bereft of furniture, but filled with human beings, would be exposed to a smaller amount of Zyklon-B. Because the temperature in the room would be perhaps as much as 20 degrees higher (Celsius) and because there would be considerably more humidity in the room, the result would be a quicker release of gas. Because less cyanide is needed to kill humans than lice, the required exposure time would be significantly decreased. And because the gas chambers had forced ventilation, or at the very least because the Sonderkommando wore gas masks, the rooms could be re-entered quickly and the bodies removed. This would leave relatively little cyanide residue on the walls. Nevertheless, the cyanide is there.

As shown on the above post

Less cyanide needed to kill humans than lice.

WTF are you talking about?

I've been trying to deal with black ants invading my terrace this weekend.

I've bought a special poison to kill them. The ants are dead but I'm still alive because it takes less toxin to kill the ants than to kill me.

The concentration of HCN that is needed to kill humans is a lot less than it is to kill lice, look it up. It's not the same as ant powder.
According to Dupont the following thresholds apply:
2-5 ppm Odor threshold
4-7 ppm OSHA exposure limit, 15 minute time weighted average
20-40 ppm Slight symptoms after several hours
45-54 ppm Tolerated for 1
/2 to 1 hour without significant immediate or delayed effects
100-200 ppm Fatal within 1
/2 to 1 hour
300 ppm Rapidly fatal (if no treatment)
phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/irving-david/rudolf/affweb.pdf

It takes more powerful concentration of Zyklon B to kill lice that humans, thus that's one of the reasons that Prussian Blue staining and other traces of HCN would be more likely found on the walls of a delousing chambers than homicidal gas chambers, but it's all do do with the exposure time and humidity. it requires only a maximum of 300 ppm and half an hour to kill humans, Leutcher's shoddy science if flawed. It's more to do with the exposure time and the humidity than the concentration though because the Nazis would have used the same stuff for both, but for delousing it would take betwwen 24 - 72 hours in a dry environment whist with a homicidal gas chamber it's over much quicker and would be a lot more humidity in those chambers thus causing a different environment, so Prussian Blue staining is a poor method of trying to debunk the homicidal gas chambers.

Even Leutcher admits this in his report:
Medical tests show that a concentration of hydrogen cyanide gas in an amount
of 300 ppm in air is rapidly fatal. Generally, for execution purposes a
concentration of 3200 ppm is used to ensure rapid death. This is a
weight/volume of some 120 to 150 grams/ 2 cubic feet of gas, depending on
temperature and pressure. Some 100 ppm of HCN is fatal within half an hour.

Toxic effects are skin irritation and rashes, eye irritation, blurring of vision and
permanent eye damage; non-specific nausea; headache; dizziness; vomiting and
weakness; rapid respiration, lowered blood pressure, unconsciousness,
convulsions and death; symptoms of asphyxia, dyspnea, ataxia, tremors, coma
and death through a disruption of the oxidative metabolism.
Hydrocyanic acid does not have to be breathed to be fatal. In concentrations of
over 50 ppm, the user must wear a chemical suit to completely protect his body
solargeneral.org/wp-content/uploads/library/leuchter-report.pdf

And for killing lice a minimum of (according to Leutcher himself)
Fumigation takes a minimum of 24 to 48 hours
solargeneral.org/wp-content/uploads/library/leuchter-report.pdf
.

Rather than the ''100 ppm of HCN half an hour'' that it takes to kill humans.

More info anyone?
HCN Effects on Humans:
Hydrogen Cyanide can cause rapid death due to metabolic asphyxiation.
Death can occur within seconds or minutes of the inhalation of high
concentrations
3,404ppm Death after 1 minute exposure
270ppm Death after 6-8 minutes exposure
181ppm Death after 10 minutes exposure
135ppm Death after 30 minutes exposure
10ppm OSHA permissible exposure limit (PEL)
4.7ppm NIOSH recommended exposure limit (REL)
ppm = parts per million
www.ribble-enviro.co.uk/includes/files/products/87_1_Sensit%20HCN-Brochure.pdf
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Last Edit: 20 Nov 2016 10:40 by Frothy.
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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 20 Nov 2016 12:06 #17

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The Leuchter Report
The mixture required for fumigation is 3200 parts per million (ppm) or 0.32% total volume HCN. The chamber must be free of obstructions and have a capability for a strong, constant and copious air flow. www.ihr.org/books/leuchter/criteria.html

For killing humans?
So it's quite obvious even to buffoons that exposure of HCN for fumigation takes a far greater time than to kill humans, thus, Prussian Blue staining and higher HCN traces would be found on the material of delousing chambers compared to homicidal gas chambers, thus Leutcher is flawed and debunked, and so are the holocaust deniers that have pinned their hopes onto his subjective bullshit.

Zykon B has a single concenration, it's the expsoure time that differs, ie hours and hours for lice, minutes for human resulting in death at a *3200ppm ratio (*according to Leutcher himeslf).


Easy peasy :D
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Last Edit: 20 Nov 2016 12:22 by Frothy.
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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 20 Nov 2016 12:46 #18

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Rat, you are absurd and ridiculous.

You have no understanding of biology. Your agenda is plain.

I pity the Ziospook who lives like a twilight liar in the gloom of cyberspace.
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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 16 Jul 2017 12:17 #19

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Bobby Batter wrote:


Nope, I see no Prussian blue there either.

Dachau, Germany, Postwar, The delousing chamber.

collections.yadvashem.org/photosarchive/en-us/101278.html


What sort of person would present traditional non-colour photos as evidence for absence of Prussian Blue staining?

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Last Edit: 16 Jul 2017 15:29 by Exorcist.
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Exposing the Prussian Blue Hoax 16 Jul 2017 12:53 #20

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Does rattys report take into account the different actions of respiration for humans and insects? The molecular differences involved in nostril/spiracle transmission and inhalation?
No. So, a louse, living among dozens or hundreds of other lice in the folds and threads ,warp and weft of clothing is going to require different exposure times than open nostril/open pore humans in a damp environment.
Whatever, there has never been a factual, definitive proof of homicidal gas chambers, just "told you so" evidence/bullshit.
If there ever was then holohoaxers would have been all over it. Until then it is most definitely unproven.
RODOH has some great discussions on this.
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