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TOPIC: Who Destroyed Christian thinking?

Who Destroyed Christian thinking? 04 Feb 2016 20:04 #81

  • ragnarok
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Bob, how do you define "Christian thinking"? A couple of paragraphs worth of summarisation will suffice. Maybe point out the main traits and values?
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Who Destroyed Christian thinking? 04 Feb 2016 23:47 #82

I know you are asking Rob here,but you know as well as i do he will just waffle on and not touch upon what it truely means to be a christian ,Humanity even!

Respect one another ,Love one another,Look after one another
Its so simple

Thats my holy trinity.
Last Edit: 05 Feb 2016 15:09 by backfromthebrink.
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Who Destroyed Christian thinking? 05 Feb 2016 01:39 #83

  • Robert Baird
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Dear B

THAT is the golden rule of the Pharisaic school Paul lied about being taught at - we have absolute proof! It was lead by Gamaliel and the liars you listen to on Sunday attack the Pharisees who were enemies of Rome and you would know why you are a liar if you studied the lies you repeat. Of course you also say YOU are god and humans are so stupid we never went to space and many more totally insane things. However, I love seeing people giving you kudos - it proves what kind of idiots THEY are.

Dear R

GMP asked me that question on this thread I think. He added to what I said and gave personal experiences in India to support it.

But here we go again. Christians today are few if any, maybe Unitarians and old school Celtic or other Orthodox Churches not into Rome and its lies in the Gospels can make some claims to being Christian. I regard the perfecti of the Cathars as such, and some Gnostics who were not affected by the Inquisitions and other uses of force to make Empire paramount and thus keep power in the hands of ever more select people each time Rome FELL and became more powerful.

Yeshua (the acknowledged Historical Jesus by most scholars) studied what all top intellectuals especially in his family studied. It was more than simple attendance at Churches to give money to crooks and pedophiles or rapists. I have studied it almost all of my life - but even though that would make me more like him than any you know or have read about - he nor I, would call ourselves Christian. An insecure egotist like Hitler accepted that Christos mantle (It means Messiah) - but an adept does not need to lie or prevaricate (for evidence see all people talking about being Christian).

There are many threads here which cover more about this including The God "Within". Please quote something you have read and ask a question about it rather than asking asinine questions (as I always ask of you). I have written at least ten books that address your question - it is no easy thing to answer. This was one of your better questions, but it is still inadequate as I will explain.

Thinking and Christianity alone - an oxymoron mostly, would take a definition for each word that could cover a whole book each, just to define those words. Definitions are never complete and often obfuscate what the person is really seeking. I have given you a few names but I coulod add a thousand more "trails" and all the values on earth can be boiled into just three - but each one takes a full lifetime to grok, so every book I have read would have to be mentioned.
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Who Destroyed Christian thinking? 05 Feb 2016 03:33 #84

Robert Baird wrote:
Dear B

THAT is the golden rule of the Pharisaic school Paul lied about being taught at - we have absolute proof! It was lead by Gamaliel and the liars you listen to on Sunday attack the Pharisees who were enemies of Rome and you would know why you are a liar if you studied the lies you repeat. Of course you also say YOU are god and humans are so stupid we never went to space and many more totally insane things. However, I love seeing people giving you kudos - it proves what kind of idiots THEY are.

Dear R

GMP asked me that question on this thread I think. He added to what I said and gave personal experiences in India to support it.

But here we go again. Christians today are few if any, maybe Unitarians and old school Celtic or other Orthodox Churches not into Rome and its lies in the Gospels can make some claims to being Christian. I regard the perfecti of the Cathars as such, and some Gnostics who were not affected by the Inquisitions and other uses of force to make Empire paramount and thus keep power in the hands of ever more select people each time Rome FELL and became more powerful.

Yeshua (the acknowledged Historical Jesus by most scholars) studied what all top intellectuals especially in his family studied. It was more than simple attendance at Churches to give money to crooks and pedophiles or rapists. I have studied it almost all of my life - but even though that would make me more like him than any you know or have read about - he nor I, would call ourselves Christian. An insecure egotist like Hitler accepted that Christos mantle (It means Messiah) - but an adept does not need to lie or prevaricate (for evidence see all people talking about being Christian).

There are many threads here which cover more about this including The God "Within". Please quote something you have read and ask a question about it rather than asking asinine questions (as I always ask of you). I have written at least ten books that address your question - it is no easy thing to answer. This was one of your better questions, but it is still inadequate as I will explain.

Thinking and Christianity alone - an oxymoron mostly, would take a definition for each word that could cover a whole book each, just to define those words. Definitions are never complete and often obfuscate what the person is really seeking. I have given you a few names but I coulod add a thousand more "trails" and all the values on earth can be boiled into just three - but each one takes a full lifetime to grok, so every book I have read would have to be mentioned.

Show the proof then ;) you cant :D

You dont get it do you ,im not religious,Yet you somehow believe i go to a church on sunday :larf: ,religions have been corrupted for many years.

Like how you said you have proof that i emailed you off site claiming im john b -stating it as facts ? well where are the facts? still waiting on the proof :chuckle:

Was it not you who insinuated that i was a god ? :yup: You are forgetting i can prove all your lies ;)

I love humans,Not a big fan of snakes though!
Moon landings were faked by freemasons,The ''universe'' is very small ,and it does not exist the way that 99% think it does,nasa is a freemasonic fraud.

why not go have a drink with ENT ;)
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Who Destroyed Christian thinking? 05 Feb 2016 11:57 #85

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backfromthebrink wrote:
I know you are asking Rob here,but you know as well as i do he will just waffle on and not touch upon what it truely means to be a christian ,Human even!

Respect one another ,Love one another,Look after one another
Its so simple

Thats my holy trinity.

The trouble with that philosophy is it relies on everybody behaving the same way to ever be effective. It only takes one group to be a little more selfish, and the christian has to break their own code or risk being wiped out, or totally dominated.
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Who Destroyed Christian thinking? 05 Feb 2016 14:23 #86

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NONsense!
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Who Destroyed Christian thinking? 05 Feb 2016 14:47 #87

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Okay, you keep turning the other cheek, and see what that will get you, other than a queue of people lining up to slap you.
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Who Destroyed Christian thinking? 05 Feb 2016 14:47 #88

ragnarok wrote:
backfromthebrink wrote:
I know you are asking Rob here,but you know as well as i do he will just waffle on and not touch upon what it truely means to be a christian ,Human even!

Respect one another ,Love one another,Look after one another
Its so simple

Thats my holy trinity.

The trouble with that philosophy is it relies on everybody behaving the same way to ever be effective. It only takes one group to be a little more selfish, and the christian has to break their own code or risk being wiped out, or totally dominated.


Great reply rags, :)

Which brings me to this point ,whats the difference between humans and humanity ?
well
Many people appear to be human on the surface (no im not implying aliens,or demons take the form of humans, well not in a traditional sence,anyway,but many humans lack humanity...To better understand what im saying, compare the traits of a reptile to a mammal

In a recent post of mine i state that Top masons and other secret society members are alchemists of the highest order!
what are they performing alchemy on ? The populations consciousness/mind...transforming from one state of mind to another....mamal to reptile,Notice its never the other way round.reptile to mamal...The Top alchemists use very complex methods to transform the mind,very complicated methods that cost a fortune ,,,But its so easy to bring people back in to the ''mamal state'' all you have to do is show

Love,respect,care....At first it seems alien to them but they recognise it deep within themsleves because at one point that is what they were from the very begining.

Does the control over humanity make more sence to you now? The media,society,culture,are perfect mediums in which ''THEY'' opperate through,
Because they own it and create it all.

Cut the head of the snake and the body will die.

Dark magis keep the snake moving :yup: -Take out the dark magis,the snake will stop moving,when the snake cannot move,You can take on the head.
Last Edit: 05 Feb 2016 15:12 by backfromthebrink.
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Who Destroyed Christian thinking? 16 Feb 2016 13:48 #89

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The website consciousreporter gets it right about a lot. I think it could explain how archetypes and memes affect people without the target demographic even being aware of it, but who am I to criticize them - I know when you go into great detail about how it all works you still get crucified.

"Fear is a weapon of social control used to manipulate thoughts and actions without people even knowing it. Today it’s used to control and alienate would-be practitioners of alternative spirituality. How has this happened and who stands to gain from it? By understanding how fear is used we can be free of manipulation in our choice of spirituality.

If you were an early Christian (back when it was still an alternative religion) you had to be careful not to become food for a lion. Once Christianity was established, if you were ‘pagan’ or a ‘witch’ you had to be careful not to be burnt at the stake. Nowadays, unless you live in China where Falun Gong practitioners – who were once supported by the state until they gained too much influence – are still victims of false imprisonment, torture and live organ harvesting, or in a strict middle-eastern country where you might be hung for expressing alternative spiritual beliefs, it’s somewhat safer to be on the fringe of religious belief."


consciousreporter.com/cultura...-spirituality/

Is the Church of Jesus Christ a new denomination - they are getting the book out - and I do not think this is the Mormon group with a similar name. So hard it is, to keep up with all those who speak for g_d and line their pockets.

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B019VHOXM...kindle_ext_tmb

eBook: Jeremiah Ebenezer: Kindle Store
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Who Destroyed Christian thinking? 16 Feb 2016 23:48 #90

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Free Will

A central issue in philosophy and religion which probably was largely caused by those wishing to exert their will over the masses at a Mass, is Free Will and variations on destiny and the first cause or g-d. Pelagius and St. Augustine had a few battles and heresy trials resulted. Those debates were necessary if man was going to allow himself to be stripped of his responsibility for good acts and let priests decide who went to Heaven and how much they had to pay via special dispensations, confessionals and their estate or will which was often prepared by the local priest who was thus forced to become a legal celibate so he could not allow his estate to go to his children. John Duns Scotus is a key figure in this from the High Scholastic era to modernity in philosophical terms, before we got a dose of Critical Thinking or Theory. Here are some introductory thoughts from the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy, to get the ball rolling. www.iep.utm.edu/scotus/

"John Duns Scotus, along with Bonaventure, Aquinas, and Ockham, is one of the four great philosophers of High Scholasticism. His work is encyclopedic in scope, yet so detailed and nuanced that he earned the epithet “Subtle Doctor,” and no less a thinker than Ockham would praise his judgment as excelling all others in its subtlety. In opposition to the prevailing thought in metaphysics that the term “being” is analogical, Scotus argues that it must be a univocal term, a view others had feared would bring an end to metaphysics and natural theology. Scotus’s novel account of universals and individuation gained a wide following and inspired brilliant counterarguments by Ockham and Thomist opponents. Despite its flaws, his argument for God’s existence, perhaps the most complicated of any ever written, is a philosophical tour de force. Scotus’s distinction between intuitive and abstractive cognition structured much of the discussion of cognition for the rest of the scholastic period. In opposition to such thinkers as Aquinas and Godfrey of Fontaines, Scotus defends a moderate voluntarism in his account of free will, a view that would be influential into the modern period."

John Scotus Eirugena is an earlier 9th Century philosopher who carried forward the thought of Pelagius who harkens back to the Druids in an era before the bounties were put on their heads and some sold out to Rome.

"Doxastic Voluntarism

Doxastic voluntarism is the philosophical doctrine according to which people have voluntary control over their beliefs. Philosophers in the debate about doxastic voluntarism distinguish between two kinds of voluntary control. The first is known as direct voluntary control and refers to acts which are such that if a person chooses to perform them, they happen immediately. For instance, a person has direct voluntary control over whether he or she is thinking about his or her favorite song at a given moment. The second is known as indirect voluntary control and refers to acts which are such that although a person lacks direct voluntary control over them, he or she can cause them to happen if he or she chooses to perform some number of other, intermediate actions. For instance, a person untrained in music has indirect voluntary control over whether he or she will play a melody on a violin. Corresponding to this distinction between two kinds of voluntary control, philosophers distinguish between two kinds of doxastic voluntarism. Direct doxastic voluntarism claims that people have direct voluntary control over at least some of their beliefs. Indirect doxastic voluntarism, however, supposes that people have indirect voluntary control over at least some of their beliefs, for example, by doing research and evaluating evidence.

This article offers an introductory explanation of the nature of belief, the nature of voluntary control, the reasons for the consensus regarding indirect doxastic voluntarism, the reasons for the disagreements regarding direct doxastic voluntarism, and the practical implications for the debate about doxastic voluntarism in ethics, epistemology, political theory, and the philosophy of religion."



There are some so-called fundamentalists in Christendom who insist Faith requires no human thinking and their flocks of sheep eat it up, because it allows them to never have to work at knowing themself or to help other people. They can spout off their invective and hate or belief in the wrath of some evil creature up above as if it was they themself (as carriers of suicide bombs or weapons to kill abortion doctors) who are their God's agent.

Because Paul/Saul was a Roman who the Empire used to create a larger Empire and then had him killed when he started to believe or behave as if what they were writing and attributing to him was true, we have issues to explore.
Last Edit: 16 Feb 2016 23:49 by Robert Baird. Reason: add color
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Who Destroyed Christian thinking? 29 Mar 2016 15:08 #91

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How many people would it require to act and cause change? Is it possible for a crowd together in support of the true history and get cameras to spread a thought of Brotherhood which we could use the name Jesus to serve as a rallying point if we did it in the truth of the Jefferson Bible or words from Thomas Paine who not so long ago caused such an uprising without cameras? We could give Allah and Buddha their due in truth they all say the same thing.

It might just happen some day, we might throw off the coils of religious indoctrination into Empire and mind controlling terror and torture of our women and children by demons and Armageddon. It also might not.

Continuing this biased Gnostic account from Kabbalah which is derivative of the earlier discipline we should pay homage to.

"These teachings of Jewish Gnosticism (coming from Egypt) were so similar to those of Pagan Gnosticism that many Jews claimed that the great Pagan philosophers had originally received their wisdom from Moses. This condition continued into the Middle Ages. The Zohar, believed written by Moses de Leon in 1305 C.E., claimed to draw on the secret teachings of Simeon Ben Yohai, a rabbi of Galilee in the second century C.E., which were in turn said to have been drawn from the hidden wisdom of Moses. The medieval flowering of Kabbalah in the south of France {Cathars are Gnostic and ecumenical - see my books) in the 13th century was inspired by Jewish Gnostic tradition that had somehow survived from the first centuries (G. Scholem, Origins Of The Kabbalah, 1987). This belief encouraged Jews to enthusiastically embrace the philosophy and mythology of the Pagan Gnostics to augment their own tradition, producing a Miarge number of spiritual treatises which synthesized Pagan and Jewish motifs.

The spirituality of the Therapeutae and Essenes is an example of this mixture of Jewish and Pagan Gnosticism. As well as being followers of their own Jewish master Moses, they were also followers of the great Pagan philosopher Pythagoras {The Druid}, whose disciples had set up communities throughout the Mediterranean world. The Jewish historian Josephus informs us that the Essenes are comparable to the Pythagoreans (Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, 15.371). In creating the Gnostic Jesus Myth these Therapeutae-Essenes drew upon inter-testamental literature which had already been synthesized from Pagan and Jewish mythological motifs. These inter-testamental texts not only echo the Pagan Mysteries but also prefigures Christianity and by so doing forms a bridge between the two. For example motifs that prefigure Christianity are found in the Sibylline Oracles {Druidic priestesses} which look forward to the coming of "the Christ" and the Books of Enoch which anticipate the arrival of the "Son of Man" - a title that will be used to define Jesus in the New Testament.

Philo, himself known as "the Pythagorean" (Josephus, The Jewish War, 2.8.10). Philo, himself a Pythagorean, describes the Therapeutae as practising "the contemplative life", which was a way of describing Pythagoreans (Clement of Alexandria, Clement of Alexandria, 1919, 1.15.72 and 2.19.100). Philo tells us their wisdom stems from Greece and that "this kind exists in many places in the inhabited world". The "contemplative life" is a term used to describe the life lived in the Pythagorean communities.

Following the practice of the Cynic school of Pagan Gnosticism, these Jewish Gnostics called their spiritual tradition simply "the Way" - a term also adopted by the original Christians. "The Way" was a phrase used by Essenes, Cynics, and Christians to describe their faith (A. Ellegard, Jesus: One Hundred Years Before Christ, 1999, p. 167).

Acts 9:2 2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. (KJV)

Answer for yourself: Are these Therapeuate-Essene-Pythagorean-Jews the earliest Christians we read about in the Book of Acts? It sure would appear so!

Partly due to Philo's writings, the fourth-century Christian Literalist historian Eusebius saw so many similarities between the Way of the Therapeutae and the Christian Way that he claimed the Therapeutae were amongst the first followers of Christ.

Answer for yourself: But when did Philo write of these Therapeutae? Before or after Jesus of the New Testament times?

Philo's description of the Therapeutae was written before the time that Jesus is supposed to have been teaching, so Philo is clearly NOT writing about disciples of an historical Jesus or a historical Messiah, as Eusebius believed. Ironically, Eusebius was probably right nevertheless, albeit in an entirely different way from how he intended. The Essenes and Therapeutae did not follow Jesus. They created him!

The idea of some sect "making up" the Jesus myth may seem strange today, but this is because we no longer think of myths in the same way as our ancestors did. To us myths are irrelevant fantasies, but the ancients regarded "myths" as profound allegories encoding mystical teachings. Mythical motifs represented philosophical principles. They were an archetypal vocabulary {Memes are not new!} with which to think. Creating new myths was a way of exploring new ideas.

Reworking old myths and syncretizing them to create new ones was a major preoccupation of the Gnostics. Philo tells us that the Therapeutae were devoted to "philosophizing and interpreting their ancestral scriptures allegorically, for they think that the words of the literal meaning are symbols of a hidden nature which is made plain only by the undermeaning" (Philo, De Sept, 3.4, quoted in W. Kingsland, The Gnosis, 1937, p. 28). Imaginative mythologizing is also what the later Christian Gnostics specialized in. One of their critics condemns them for using "allegorical interpretation" to freely "recompose" Jewish scriptures and "Greek epic mythology" (Epiphanius, Pan., 26.1.4), which are precisely the two sources used to create the myths of Jesus and the Goddess."


firstnewtestament.com/earlies...e_essene_7.htm

In the millennia before his focus the Gnosis was maintained throughout the Mediterranean in Hermetic teachings by intellectuals who studied Thoth/Hermes or Imhotep/Asklepios (Same system - one Greek - one Roman).
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Who Destroyed Christian thinking? 07 Apr 2016 15:33 #92

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Yes, I am pretty foolish and I still harbor illusions that humanity might awaken from the thrall or trance that grips the throat of all life on the planet we call home; like a seizure-struck lamb suckling on it's mother's teat. In point of fact that lamb will grow up to be even more emboldened in it's certitude of ignorance as it often will try to share the stupid nature of it's sand box scriptures. But as stupid as I am - and perhaps because I am so stupid, I will continue to have hope even if I have zero faith in what my soul cries for - Brotherhood and honesty! For you see - I too derive perverse pleasure from the Scriptures and interpretations of those who wax eloquent about what others in their cult have written. The fact that they have successfully sold many very different perspectives as the word of the Great Pumpkin, big boogeyman or monotheistic trio with all manner of gods, angels, saints and relics to worship; doesn't diminish the fervor of each cult's sheep. When their god created them he quite obviously forgot to put the grey matter in the big sphere on top rather than the one these sheep sit on. There is one aspect of intellect they all excel at; abuse! They can abuse their mothers and sisters by the authority of their mighty omnipotent masters in Rome or from the desert sands where sentient life is hard to find. If you are standing near one of these excellent people of great faith you might want to put your hand over your wallet or posterior regions.

Not to suggest that a Christian knows what is important about any cult member they share their Scriptures with - but you get some unvarnished insights when they speak about each other. I provide them a service when I spread their good word in the following complete book.

"" Mohammed began with descriptions of natural objects, of judgment, of heaven and hell, impassioned, fragmentary utterances, mostly in brief sentences; he went on to dogmatic assertions, historical statements from Jewish and Christian sources, missionary appeals and persuasions; and he ended with the dictatorial commands of a legislator and warrior. "He who at Mecca is the admonisher and persuader, at Medina is the legislator and the warrior, who dictates obedience and uses other weapons than the pen of the poet and the scribe. When business pressed, as at Medina, poetry makes way for prose,170 and although touches of the poetical element occasionally break forth, and he has to defend himself up to a very late period against the charge of being merely a poet, yet this is rarely the case in the Medina Suras; and we are startled by finding obedience to God and the Apostle, God’s gifts and the Apostle’s, God’s pleasure and the Apostle’s, spoken of in the same breath, and epithets, and attributes, applied to Allah, openly applied to Mohammed, as in Sura IX."171

The materials of the Koran, as far as they are not productions of the author’s own imagination, were derived from the floating traditions of Arabia and Syria, from rabbinical Judaism, and a corrupt Christianity, and adjusted to his purposes. Mohammed had, in his travels, come in contact with professors of different religions, and on his first journey with camel-drivers he fell in with a Nestorian monk of Bostra, who goes by different names (Bohari, Bahyra, Sergius, George), and welcomed the youthful prophet with a presage of his future greatness.172 His wife Chadijah and her cousin Waraka (a reputed convert to Christianity, or more probably a Jew) are said to have been well acquainted with the sacred books of the Jews and the Christians. The Koran, especially in the earlier Suras, speaks often and highly of the Scriptures; calls them "the Book of God," "the Word of God," "the Tourât" (Thora, the Pentateuch), "the Gospel" (Ynyil), and describes the Jews and Christians as "the people of the Book," or "of the Scripture," or "of the Gospel." It finds in the Scriptures prophecies of Mohammed and his success, and contains narratives of the fall of Adam and Eve, Noah and the Deluge, Abraham and Lot, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Moses and Joseph, John the Baptist, the Virgin Mary and Jesus, sometimes in the words of the Bible, but mostly distorted and interspersed with rabbinical and apocryphal fables.173 It is quite probable that portions of the Bible were read to Mohammed; but it is very improbable that he read it himself; for according to the prevailing Moslem tradition he could not read at all, and there were no Arabic translations before the Mohammedan conquests, which spread the Arabic language in the conquered countries. Besides, if he had read the Bible with any degree of care, he could not have made such egregious blunders."

www.isom.vnsalvation.com/Reso...20590-1073.PDF
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