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TOPIC: A Million Years BEFORE Atlantis

A Million Years BEFORE Atlantis 23 Mar 2016 20:06 #21

  • Robert Baird
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10.5 Million year old human

A friend sent me a link to Cremo's Hidden History of the Human Race video on You Tube. Here is my response.

Michael Cremo and I had e-mail contact about a decade ago. I sent him a book I did on human origins and he did one shortly thereafter which was more sane than this one (The Hidden History of the Human Race). It is very good but support only came from Bhaktivedanta Press after he spent ten years trying everywhere. I think they caused him to emphasize the extremes.


But in the matter of human origins we definitely have real researchers (Dalhousie University) going behind the Leakey Gang of Yale (Skull and Bones) and finding 6.5 million y/o advanced hominids. This guy had been thrown in jail on one occasion and he says he thinks he saw things which if allowed access would prove 9 million. That is close to the 10.5 Cremo and the commenter you quote say. I have seen 12 Million in mystical sources, but that might be an ape. Where the line is drawn - is part of the issue. A mammalian mouse found in China dated over 25 million years ago is not a human origin, for example.

He had agreement to be published in Nature Magazine but they did not and simply ran with another Leakey gang 'discovery' dated just a little older than their last - 3.5 million and advanced about the same as the Dalhousie guy. I believe Leakey people are very conservative since Louis Leakey was raked over the coals when he said he found 200 - 250,000 year old arrowheads near the shores of the old Salton Sea near one of my accounts close to Barstow California. Those people set up a better interpretative center I hear.

My contacts in Inyo near Bishop California, were developed fifteen years later. There is a good thread at World-Mysteries on Inyo.

And more comes all the time. When you see Johanson getting excited that means a lot. Not only did he discover Lucy but he has said he stopped drawing human family trees a long time ago. He said it when they found super robustus or the Black Skull.

Could super robustus be part of the Neanderthal to Denisovan lineage? I regard Neanderthal as being a participant in the current Homo Sapiens Sapiens and if super robustus is part of our family tree we might be older than Lucy. This discovery alone puts us almost as old as Lucy who is not regarded as a Homo (of any sort).

news.nationalgeographic.com/n...olduvai-gorge/

"In some ways, the Black Skull wasn’t at all like the other Paranthropus species and was instead more similar to the older, more primitive Australopithecus afarensis: It had a flat skull base, a shallow jaw joint, a protruding face and a small brain (410 cubic centimeters). In contrast, P. boisei and P. robustus had an angled skull base, a deep jaw joint, a flat face and a somewhat larger brain (500 to 545 cc)—all traits that they shared in common with early Homo. If P. boisei and P. robustus evolved from the more primitive P. aethiopicus, it means they share features with early Homo due to parallel evolution–that is, both lineages independently evolved similar cranial characteristics."

www.smithsonianmag.com/scienc...900408/?no-ist
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A Million Years BEFORE Atlantis 23 Mar 2016 20:10 #22

  • ragnarok
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10.5 million year old humans, eh? That makes our progress as a species even more disappointing.
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A Million Years BEFORE Atlantis 23 Mar 2016 21:18 #23

  • Gaia
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Robert Baird wrote:
Dear Gaia

I can claim it because I read - and learn - try it sometime.

Reading something does not necessarily makes that something true. Take the Bible as example; billions of people have read the Bible, that does not make Methusalem or Moses real people.

It is the reflection on reading that forms learning.

And things are true or not true if they fit the laws of logic, physics and statistics. Those are the tools used to discriminate between truth and falsehood.
I do not just accept Wiki.

Neither do I. And as the topic interests me; see my user name, I am curious to hear alternative views. But those views do not escape the same scrutiny I put wiki or other sources against. Something "alternative" is not true just because it is "alternative". It is true or not if the laws of nature are followed or not.
I know we have more resources than just skeletons.

What do we have?
1 - fossil remains - how you can deduct "ESP" from that still remains a riddle
2 - written texts - only for the last approx. 5000 years
3 - symbols, cave paintings, etc. - for the last some 100,000 years let's say
4 - stories - verbal accounts which may or may not be true - there are thousands of myths arounds
I have correctly said what has been proven for decades. When a person says what will be proven and it then is proven that is someone worth listening to. The academics said NO interbreeding - they were wrong and continue to be wrong about many things. But people like RG do not read at all - and proudly expose their stupidity as a badge of honor like all the Nazis and fundies here.

I have a hard time accepting that "THE" academics said "no interbreeding". Especially paleontology is a science where multiple view points are respected; there is not 1 single truth, yet schools of thought; academics contesting each other.
Your Wiki stuff is not in line with the artist rendering starting with the Magellan era - it does not consider the skull found in Kimball's Museum nor the statues torn down by early Spanish Hellenizers. Read Lanning of Columbia University for even more about visitors with Keltic Tonsure and Masonic token system in the pre-ceramic era at Lima. I have much more, but I said it still intrigues me - as does Sasquatch. See reports in Kamchatka - see the Yetis reports. And remember how the Hobbit was ridiculed. YES, all very intriguing.

The question is; what is myth and what is real and how do you discriminate between the two. What are your standards to call something true and to call something false.

The Hobbit was ridiculed? Which Hobbit? The book by Tolkien? Or the Flores fossils?
As I said before you NEED to read or you will not LEARN!!! Here is a post I just made on a history forum after reading a reasonable but limiting report by George Boeree, about language origins wherein he buys the Cradle of Crap NONsense you probably are infected with due to Bible scholarship - NOT! The Bible archaeologist Albright is a major source of my history.

I am an atheist and have always been. I know the outline of the Bible, but never studied it. It is demonstrably an ill source for natural scientific facts. It is a story book, written in past ages by people I don't know.

But this Albright is a major source of your history while at the same time you say I am infected with Bible scholarship? Do you take the Bible seriously or not? Or just when it fits your beliefs? I for one do not take any authority of Biblical texts.
I would add that apes and porpoises had digitized coded speaking and still do. In fact Kanzai and Koko speak sign language in our alphabets and we have not learned their tongue. Does that mean we are less evolved?

"Digitized coded speaking"? What is it?

And no, evolution is not about less or more, about high or low. Evolution is about adapting to environments. If other cultures have other languages that have been evolved that way it's because that works for them. What works for them, does not necessarily work for others. Guills are useless for land animals while lungs are for aquatic creatures. One is not "better" or "more evolved" than the other; they simply work better in their own respective environments.
Languages included divinatory systems like ogun or El Coco - still used in Voudou or Orisha.

One dialect of Ogham included math and astrology - see Le Placard Baton dated around 30,000 years ago.

Another dialect of Ogham or Ogam was harmonic as their minstrels and poet Bards (BRDs - no vowels) know.

If allowed I can post a whole twenty plus thread link called Ogham and Aymara.

In Peru you may have heard about the Quipas - it kept poems too. It is very similar to Ogham tracts using the fingers up or down and angled. The knuckles being like the knots in the quipas.

DNA research aids our history in a major way today. We see the Ainu all over the Pacific and Americas - they are also involved with the DNN and are the Sidhe most likely origin.

The current established view is that humans reached South America about 12,000 years ago. You were talking about hominids of millions of years ago. That is a huge difference.

Now, I am not married to any established view, but in order to get convinced of alternative views I need a bit more than "read a lot and then you know". Arguments, physical proof, statistics, logic, etc.
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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A Million Years BEFORE Atlantis 23 Mar 2016 22:04 #24

  • Robert Baird
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Dear Gaia

Just like your comments about how I can say people knew what Bucky Fuller said and questioned me. I quote the expert and you question me. So be it. Now we see you use the name Gaia and that is supposed to mean something. It means you are like a neo-pagan and like most of them do not know squat (See Old Gaelic thread as i previously asked you to read.). In 1994 I ran an ad in Llewellyn's for the Gaian Institute of Arcane Knowledge - I still use it as an addy, It means zero. What does mean something is I know about the EEGrid and pentagon dodecahedron and Harmonic and all related ancient knowledge including direct cognition and many other things.

Here again you assert a falsehood. 12,000 years ago was the norm until Dillehay disproved Clovis cop shite in the 1990s. Guidon has 60,000 in Brazil and says she thinks it is 100,000, Professor Carter of Johns Hopkins agrees. David Pratt say 2 million, as I just noted Leakey found 200,000 + year old arrowheads, read up on Hueyatlaco, and a hundred other things I have facts about. YOU are beyond naive!!!

forum.world-mysteries.com/threads/1055-Topper?highlight=topper

Dear R -ox

Next up rox in head.

It means YOU are disappointing - not humanity or what it has achieved. JUST you! Here is a thread which I probably put under the Old Gaelic and OBOD thread where BD was supposed to get back on my book Diverse Druids or bring one of what he says are fantastic scholars who could prove they are not Neo-pagans or worse. In it you will find a person who wrote a book wherein you too, if you took five years or more to study - could gain true insight and knowledge through what he called 'direct cognition' and other disciplines have many other names ie, at - one - ment, or enlightenment which almost every person on so-called truther sites is living in fear of - illuminization.. His name was Conor MacDari.

forum.world-mysteries.com/threads/1053-Ogham-and-Aymara
Last Edit: 23 Mar 2016 22:35 by Robert Baird. Reason: add link
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A Million Years BEFORE Atlantis 23 Mar 2016 22:52 #25

  • Gaia
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Robert Baird wrote:
Now we see you use the name Gaia and that is supposed to mean something. It means you are like a neo-pagan and like most of them do not know squat

Not at all, Robert. I have no interest in (neo-)paganism. Gaia is the Greek goddess for Earth. As I said I am an atheist; superstition has no place in rational research. Earth is what I'm interested in, on many levels.
Here again you assert a falsehood. 12,000 years ago was the norm until Dillehay disproved Clovis cop shite in the 1990s. Guidon has 60,000 in Brazil and says she thinks it is 100,000, Professor Carter of Johns Hopkins agrees. David Pratt say 2 million, as I just noted Leakey found 200,000 + year old arrowheads, read up on Hueyatlaco, and a hundred other things I have facts about. YOU are beyond naive!!!

forum.world-mysteries.com/threads/1055-Topper?highlight=topper

I do not "assert a falsehood". I said explicitly "the mainstream view".

The link you post is about a site where the oldest remains, which are "chert and charcoal" were dated at the upper limits of radiocarbon dating at around 50,000 years ago. This is in North America.
1 - that may be true; humans reached North America 50,000 or more years ago
2 - chert and charcoal are not necessarily indicative of humans. Chert is a very common material and can be in situ or transported by ice or water and charcoal may be the result of forest fire. I am not saying the data is flawed; it's just not conclusive enough
3 - I was talking explicitly about South America. People may have lived in North America for longer until they managed to cross the dense Darien Gap.

Still no proof of "ESP communication" between those humans...
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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A Million Years BEFORE Atlantis 23 Mar 2016 23:19 #26

  • Robert Baird
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Dear Gaia

So now you assert you know Gaia (Earth Mother) is Greek. You really do not know what you are. It is very much older than Greek and you need to learn who colonized Greece or the Peloponnesian peninsula.

Yes, you are right about the debate on Topper for the 50,000 but the lead archy says it is older than that. And no one says it is what you say is mainstream. Not a peep on Guidon - or Dillehay - cause it will prove me even more correct about how academia is way into crawling up it's own me-too think Bible Narrative?

Still waiting for you to read the link taking you into a study of 'direct cognition' but here is a famous failure approach (ein sof or akashic is only partial IMHO, but you will get many forms of ESP in it).

Truly this is a gold mine of a cross between Gnostic Christians and Thelema in a Crowleyan sort of way yet raging against Levi who is part of Crowley's Perdurabo soul continuance. It involves channellers and speakers for God and all manner of neo-Eleusis Mystery School recent creation and interpretations thereof. It is the kind of thing which makes heads spin so they stay Christian and get raped and sheared all the more. It could be a Scientology outreach if you follow what L. Ron did with Babalon - but that too is Crowleyan.

"No man can rise above her or step on her and those who think they can are fools in the best case and blasphemous abominations in the worst. These types will get the ‘god’ they deserve. Those who do not deserve the energy of Sophia and who are trying to steal it with their mental tricks and with their “magickal” rituals are getting Baphomet because of their blasphemous occult practices which are the perversion of the MEANING and it is just a process of self destruction orchestrated by HER who is BABALON!

If you perceive our mother as Holy then you deserve to have a Holy Mother but if you perceive our mother to be a whore you are an abomination and you deserve to have a whore for a mother just like Lilith and so YES; our mother is a whore FOR YOU if you think that she is and she will treat you EXACTLY like you deserve to be treated and she will step on you and LAUGH with your misery.

I do not care what Eliphas Levi said about his creation (Baphomet) and not even about what he believed if for example he wanted to hide something behind this abomination and I do not give any importance to what the Knight Templar’s believed about this issue. I do not value ANY MAN above HER who is the MEANING and not even Jesus whom I ADORE and WORSHIP with TEARS in my eyes for his pain and his struggle to save the soul of humanity from this vortex of self destruction.

When Baphomet is associated with the reversed pentagram express the inverted sexual energies of Venus and this projection can ONLY be of some use for the plan that SHE is orchestrating where Baphomet is just an abomination and a mental trap for the unworthy elements and the pure wisdom and the true MEANING behind this projection is to be able to realize this. When and if you do, maybe you can figure out some good uses for it and if you do not, most probably you are being used by this projection and not the other way around. In this plan which is the only one with REAL AND PURE MEANING, the Mother is behind the projection of Baphomet just as the very optimistic people who are meddling with this issue are claiming. It does not REALLY matter for the plan SHE is orchestrating who is using this projection and what they believe about it. The only thing that matters and the only thing that has REAL PURE AND VIRGIN MEANING in a world which is driven into chaos and which is sinking into the shadows is to reverse this projection and destroy the world of the shadows and of the occult ‘secrets’ even if the necessity (Ananke) of time (Chronos) will force us to create a new one because this is the only way to FREE HER in our consciousness and make a new beginning and bring a new world order as some people are saying. I do not care if Simon the Magus was a black magician or a saint and if his Helen was a ‘whore’ or not but I can tell you about my Helen; my Helen is pure and innocent like the dove and she is promising a new hope for humanity.

The pentagram was always associated with the worship of Venus/Aphrodite/Astarte/Inanna/Ishtar/Babalon obviously because of this fact: {Most of these are Phoenician or all are when you include the derivations. But so is the Bible as far as myths go - and Albright said.}

I will not argue with what some people say about the “great meaning” behind the projection of Baphomet. She IS the meaning/Ennoia/Sophia after all and so maybe there is an even greater MEANING from what humans in general believe. Besides, Éliphas Lévi charged this symbol with the energy of Pan (who was cursed by Aphrodite and Eros to never find a bride and so he is NOT the bridegroom) and with the energy of Banebdjedet which is the soul/psyche/ba of THE GOD OSIRIS = 888."


www.esophoria.org/the-secret-of-lucifer/
Last Edit: 23 Mar 2016 23:22 by Robert Baird. Reason: typo
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A Million Years BEFORE Atlantis 23 Mar 2016 23:25 #27

  • Robert Baird
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As to the North America first nonsense - you are again asserting the Clovis Cops Bering bridge fiction, way passe. You need to read some of what I have referred you to BIG TIME. It will take at least a year before you get around to asking a decent question.

But if you would like to see a modern red head do something harder than the Darian gap (when there are no bandits there like you get today) I refer you to The Adventurer website to see a trek going on this month. It is my nephew and his dog Buck.


Religion as a tool of commerce and the elite is well established in the oppressive doctrine called Manifest Destiny as well as the more recent Rerum Novarum. It makes me chuckle to see the complaint of Roger Williams who founded Rhode Island to get 'away from' the kind of thing the Indians suffered under - far, far and indeed the farthest imaginable 'away from' from is what we all should strive to allow. It raises mercantile progress above all else and the Yanomami in Brazil are being genocidally dealt with under this doctrine to this very day. Here is a little from a book titled Manifest Destiny and the words of Roger Williams to see if you can find humor in the situation.

"... the primary test for full citizenship became membership in the Puritan church. Within these limits-and they were narrow, for the Puritans did not tolerate differences of religious opinion-Massachusetts practiced self-government free from outside control... More important, such access gave energetic Puritan merchants an opportunity to join in the profitable trade which grew up between America, the West Indies and Great Britain. {Which included slavery and other immoral rip-offs of natives who had helped them.}

Not everyone found the tight Puritan rule of Massachusetts to his liking. Roger Williams was one of those who resisted the strict standards of religious orthodoxy for citizenship... After a bitter dispute with the ruling oligarchy {Eastern Establishment of today.} in Massachusetts, Williams was forced to flee and he organized a new colony at Providence, Rhode Island. In 1644 Williams obtained a charter for the colony of Rhode Island, The new colony's liberality was well described in the vigorous seventeenth-century prose of Williams himself: 'We have long drunk the cup of as great liberties as any people we can hear of under the whole of heaven. We have not only been long free... from the iron yoke of wolfish bishops, and Popish ceremonies... We have not felt the new chains of Presbyterian tyrants, nor in this colony have we been consumed with the over-zealous fire of (so-called) godly Christian Magistrates.'" (3)

I will stifle my disgust at the way power-mongers indulge ego and immoral duplicity in their constant need to dominate.

"In order to properly grasp the spirit in which this book is written, it is necessary to remember that though it is not altogether an Indian story, it has an Indian background. The considering attitude towards all nature which appears throughout the work, is best explained by a quotation from John G. Guilford's Story of the Seminole War.

"'The meaning of sovereignty is not very clear to primitive peoples, especially to the Indian. He rarely dominated the things around him; he was a part of nature and not its boss.' Hewitt says of the Indian:'

'In his own country... he is a harmonious element in a landscape that is incomparable in its nobility of colour and mass and feeling of the Unchangeable. He never dominates it as does the European his environment, but belongs there as do the mesas, skies, sunshine, spaces and the other living creatures. He takes his part in it with the clouds, winds, rocks, plants, birds and beasts, with drum beat and chant and symbolic gesture, keeping time with the seasons, moving in orderly procession with nature, holding to the unity of life in all things, seeking no superior place for himself but merely a state of harmony with all created things... the most rhythmic life... that is lived among the races of men.' This viewpoint is not peculiar to people of native blood but it is often found in those other races who have resided for many years in the wilderness." (4)


The behind the scenes brokers of power like Pierre DuPont de Nemours and Eli Lilly or the Rothschilds and Rockefellers of the Merovingians are seen as supporters of much of the alternative history and humanistic efforts made in various times or eras of our history. DuPont arranged the Armistice to satisfy his relative King George who some say financed the US War of Independence and needed to get his debt repaid. My brother Russ tells me the Queen's Rangers who became the Queen's York Rangers he was part of in Toronto: they felt they could have beaten Washington's army who they outnumbered even without British troops. And I believe with their Indian friends they would easily have done so. Please study Tecumseh. Then we saw the DuPonts start the armaments industry in America and the rest, as they say, is history. This is what Manifest Destiny is really all about and it has little to do with the theological ideology of Divine Providence and the ascending nature of man's evolution. You might know Sam Houston retired to live with the Cherokee after his stint in the halls of political intrigue.


In this link you find my Phoenician scholars like Cyrus Gordon (Mormon for sure) and Cyclone Covey (If related to Stephen Covey of Seven Steps also a Mormon) proving Jews came to Bountiful (America) long before "Columbus sailed the ocean blue". Columbus was also a Jew/Cathar.

guapotg.wordpress.com/2011/0...walter-baucum/

And as I have often said the Altaic region of Genghis Khan has many red-heads such as seen in the Mummies of Urumchi. And here is genetic proof they came to the Americas and are what we call natives'

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal%27ta-Buret%27_culture

www.cell.com/ajhg/abstract/S0...7)61629-2?cc=y

www.gloriafarley.com/chap2.htm


"A fool thinks he is a wise man, a wise man knows he is a fool."
Last Edit: 24 Mar 2016 02:39 by Robert Baird. Reason: add color
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A Million Years BEFORE Atlantis 05 Apr 2016 14:17 #28

  • Robert Baird
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This link really puts the boots to all the Anunnaki and related frauds.

gigalresearch.com/uk/publications-pharaohs.php
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