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TOPIC: Give me your money, suckers

Give me your money, suckers 01 Jun 2013 10:24 #1

  • Chuck Random
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=





Send him your money and salvation shall be at hand
No War But The Class War
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Give me your money, suckers 01 Jun 2013 10:41 #2

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I really am in the wrong business!

Send ME your money instead. At least I will be honest about spending it on myself.....
"...Wyrde saves oft the man undoomed
if he undaunted be....". (Beowulf).

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths... Beautiful people do not just happen". (Elisabeth Kubler-Ross).


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Give me your money, suckers 01 Jun 2013 11:39 #3

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I take it you wont be donating then chuck :chuckle:

I had a look, they are up to 2k something pounds.


EDIT: 11k pounds now.

The cashola is pouring in, 1/10th of the way there already on the first day.

Chuck wont be happy. :hahano:
1365 = 1

1.1365 = 1,283,305,580,313,352
Last Edit: 01 Jun 2013 12:54 by novum.
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Give me your money, suckers 01 Jun 2013 14:37 #4

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Make that 14k pounds.

Its interesting watching the donations go up. :chuckle:

Heres the link www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-s-voice
1365 = 1

1.1365 = 1,283,305,580,313,352
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Give me your money, suckers 01 Jun 2013 15:36 #5

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Yea, i also see it as a UK version of Infowars...
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Give me your money, suckers 01 Jun 2013 16:10 #6

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No ones gone for the 500 pound or higher donation yet.

200 is the largest donation so far from the looks of it.

10k gets you a spot on air.
1365 = 1

1.1365 = 1,283,305,580,313,352
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Give me your money, suckers 01 Jun 2013 16:12 #7

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novum wrote:
10k gets you a spot on air.

What will that consist of?
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Give me your money, suckers 01 Jun 2013 17:15 #8

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Question - If I donate £500 to a cause I deem sufficiently worthy, how far will that decision be influenced by a recording of a middle aged man offering thanks?
A video recorded by David thanking you for your contribution. Your name will be mentioned in the video along with an exclusive thank-you message by David

What is being offered is infotainment spearheaded by a niche celebrity.

David Icke poses a threat to the establishment approximately comparable to the threat to the establishment posed by the BBC.

In the modern era, we become passive consumers, in this instance to be bewitched by a fusing of conspiratorial distraction with an illusion of participation derived by aspiring to incorporate the social media boom. Will this be a call to self organise in street and workplace to challenge the apathy infusing so many of our peers and strive to build a credible opposition to capitalism, or will this be a dazzling spectacle blending legitimate information with lurid tales of science fiction conspiracy that ultimately expects you to do nothing more than await the hypothetical awakening (that is eternally coming soon) as you continue to consume the product?

It is for you the viewer to decide - and will a subscription for this be required?
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Give me your money, suckers 01 Jun 2013 17:35 #9

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Chuck Random wrote:
What is being offered is infotainment spearheaded by a niche celebrity.

David Icke poses a threat to the establishment approximately comparable to the threat to the establishment posed by the BBC.

In the modern era, we become passive consumers, in this instance to be bewitched by a fusing of conspiratorial distraction with an illusion of participation derived by aspiring to incorporate the social media boom. Will this be a call to self organise in street and workplace to challenge the apathy infusing so many of our peers and strive to build a credible opposition to capitalism, or will this be a dazzling spectacle blending legitimate information with lurid tales of science fiction conspiracy that ultimately expects you to do nothing more than await the hypothetical awakening (that is eternally coming soon) as you continue to consume the product?

It is for you the viewer to decide - and will a subscription for this be required?

He does talk shit about the Monarchy and encourage people to protest.

What else could you ask for?

As crazy as this sounds it does take money to promote the ideals of Anti-Capitalism.

Because when you really think about it the poor are voiceless and have not had an impact in opposition to capitalism.
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Give me your money, suckers 01 Jun 2013 18:34 #10

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.......... wrote:

He does talk shit about the Monarchy and encourage people to protest.

What else could you ask for?

As crazy as this sounds it does take money to promote the ideals of Anti-Capitalism.

Because when you really think about it the poor are voiceless and have not had an impact in opposition to capitalism.

Previous opposition to capitalism arose because the poor banded together to form associations to resist the boss class. This ultimately veered into reform as opposed to revolution, but presented a serious threat that needed to be addressed, ultimately appeased and bought of. Though this did bring fringe benefits that raised the stadard of living and closed the gap in inequalities. In Britain, the NHS and welfare state were products of this appeasement.

The standard presentation that the modern era represents progress seeks to ignore the crushing of working class resistance. Quite obviously as this benefits the boss class. For example, it is easy to forget that at the time of the battle of Waterloo more English troops were posted domestically to suppress dissent than fought against Napoleon. By 1834, the General National Consolidated Trades Union stood at 800,000 members. this union had a goal of overthrowing capitalism, as opposed to striving to win workers a small pay rise such as the castrated unions of today may offer. .
Many pages could be written on the struggles of the ordinary poor workers and how they were manipulated and suppressed by the forces of capital. Much of which has been relegated to quaint tales of bygone eras by the boss class who currently stand more powerful than they have been in over 100 years.
David Icke has nothing to say about this. He is ignorant of the struggles of ordinary people. Why should an entertainer be otherwise?

David Icke stands far more in harmony with the boss class than he does against them. This is not unique to him. This is typical of his peers also.

It is far more useful to Icke that you remain a passive consumer under capitalism. Without this, he product would be rendered irrelevant. He produces books that do not conform to even the most basic standards of scholarship and are bursting with falsehoods.. He champions wild theories only fit for children's fairy tales. He complains the public is being dumbed down while simultaneously dumbing down the public with sensationalist tall tales.

In some areas, David Icke even overtly champions corporate causes. An example: It is by this point established beyond dispute that the primary instigators of the manufactured debate concerning the disastrous effect human activity has and continues to have on the climate (in reality a near scientific consensus that has built since the 1980s) have been large corporations or immensely wealthy private individuals. The reason for this is clear; any move to limit the unfettered exploitation of natural resources in the name of capital potentially impedes the maximisation of profit accumulation. Consequently, extravagant sums of money have been invested in presenting this conclusion as at least highly debatable, preferably extremely dubious or totally false through a network of partisan foundations championing what they call free enterprise. David Icke has been a willing participant in assisting global capital potentially destroying human civilisation (capital is rapacious and will happily eat away the leaf on which it sits with little concern to what will support it subsequently) by singing the tune of wealthy corporations, but doing so in the guise of a rebel who stands against them. This is but one example of the manner in which David Icke is the manifestation of capitalist appropriation of resistance to itself.

David Icke is not a threat to elite power. He is a manifestation of its victory. He is an entertainer. He sells you distraction and comfort. He does not wish for change. His business plan is modeled on telling you that change is just around the corner until he chooses to retire.
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Last Edit: 01 Jun 2013 18:39 by Chuck Random.
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Give me your money, suckers 01 Jun 2013 21:53 #11

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I agree. Everything Icke does is based on his wanting to be rich and famous. He is desperate to count among the "illuminate/elite". And his son is heavily promoted in the hope that he can enter the so-corrupt music industry Icke claims to oppose. He is a cheat and a liar, in my opinion, and his ideas are very dangerous and unsettling to the vulnerable and disenfranchised.

That donation tally is over £26,000 already. It's a real con.
"...Wyrde saves oft the man undoomed
if he undaunted be....". (Beowulf).

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths... Beautiful people do not just happen". (Elisabeth Kubler-Ross).


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Give me your money, suckers 02 Jun 2013 05:37 #12

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Chuck Random wrote:
In some areas, David Icke even overtly champions corporate causes. An example: It is by this point established beyond dispute that the primary instigators of the manufactured debate concerning the disastrous effect human activity has and continues to have on the climate (in reality a near scientific consensus that has built since the 1980s) have been large corporations or immensely wealthy private individuals.

The flip side of this though is that the 'answers' presented also seem to amount to profit accumulation, namely by some big name banks such as Goldman Sachs and NM Rothschild.

People cant help but be suspicious when they see politicians like Bill Clinton (whos ties to Goldman Sachs are well known) devoting their post politics life to essentially promoting carbon taxes (Clinton Foundation), which will see Goldman Sachs and NM Rothschild profit.

And many a cynic has noted that direct support from governments and/or subsidies/rebates for projects that reduce pollution (reduce coal and oil burning and so on) such as solar power are perhaps not supported as much as they could be, but instead we see a push for a banker led carbon trading schemes, with full support from politicians.

1365 = 1

1.1365 = 1,283,305,580,313,352
Last Edit: 02 Jun 2013 05:39 by novum.
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Give me your money, suckers 02 Jun 2013 07:17 #13

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.......... wrote:
novum wrote:
10k gets you a spot on air.

What will that consist of?

All i know is what it says here www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-s-voice

scroll down and look at the modules on the right hand column
1365 = 1

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Give me your money, suckers 02 Jun 2013 10:21 #14

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novum wrote:
Chuck Random wrote:
In some areas, David Icke even overtly champions corporate causes. An example: It is by this point established beyond dispute that the primary instigators of the manufactured debate concerning the disastrous effect human activity has and continues to have on the climate (in reality a near scientific consensus that has built since the 1980s) have been large corporations or immensely wealthy private individuals.

The flip side of this though is that the 'answers' presented also seem to amount to profit accumulation, namely by some big name banks such as Goldman Sachs and NM Rothschild.

People cant help but be suspicious when they see politicians like Bill Clinton (whos ties to Goldman Sachs are well known) devoting their post politics life to essentially promoting carbon taxes (Clinton Foundation), which will see Goldman Sachs and NM Rothschild profit.

And many a cynic has noted that direct support from governments and/or subsidies/rebates for projects that reduce pollution (reduce coal and oil burning and so on) such as solar power are perhaps not supported as much as they could be, but instead we see a push for a banker led carbon trading schemes, with full support from politicians.


This simply illustrates the way in which corporate interests will happily adopt policies that may destroy us all in the pursuit of short term financial gain. This is an inescapable component of capitalism in which human beings serve the interests of abstracted fictional persons.
Should industry serve man or should man serve industry? Currently, the latter course is pursued.

The video you posted follows one of two options for addressing a problem that it is not overly dramatic to state potentially threatens human civilisation as we know it. If the problem is recognised as a problem at all, then the prevailing ideological fundamentalism states that the solution must be derived from the so-called free market. The video correctly identifies numerous flaws that are only in fact flaws if we forget that the real underlying aim is profit accumulation. Profit accumulation being the de facto prime goal that automatically overrules all other aims, even ostensibly providing a solution to a possibly terminal situation. Hence, the purported solution becomes simply another market, primed for exploitation and manipulation. Ultimately it will become completely divorced from the solution it was supposed to be pursuing. Though by being presented as a solution it can be portrayed as legitimate business. It should not be forgotten that capitalism views all disasters, no matter how dire, as a potential business opportunity.

A satirical illustration of this principle, readily accepted by the hebetudinous ideological fundamentalists it is presented to:



As an aside, an additional market solution is to manipulate consumer habits in minor profitable ways. For example, a small surcharge on a previously free plastic bag coupled with encouragement for the consumer to use their own receptacle makes a small saving while marketing environmental credentials. This does not interfere with continued consumption. Which must persist unimpeded as canon states 3% annual growth is the stairway to heaven and a law of nature to which all life must aspire.

The second solution is straightforward denial. If the problem does not exist, then business as usual is facilitated. Here is an example of a current corporate drive to encourage children in America to adopt desirable beliefs:
www.desmogblog.com/2013/01/31/three-states-pushing-alec-bill-climate-change-denial-schools



If we cease to take the problem seriously, the the problem will no longer exist. Should any changes occur to the earth's climate at a later date due to unforeseen circumstances, then rest assured the free market will be on hand to provide a solution.

We can of course point to individuals such as Al Gore, a major politician who acted to alert the world to climate change. Such disingenuity opts to highlight scattered high profile individuals who have a personal interest in such matters while choosing to remain blind to their ultimate failure to instigate change and the highly organised and vast in comparison corporate interests orchestrating the opposition that prevents any meaningful change. Conspiracists have a tendency to disbelieve any person in power is capable of forming their own opinion and inevitably conform to an overriding agenda. Consequently a high profile individual such as Al Gore presents beliefs we must disbelieve while remaining blind to the corporate interests fueling their beliefs from the background.
Similiarly, they take the ineffectual hand-wringing of the media at face value and believe it is representative of a conspiracy to deceive without pausing to analyse.
www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/alerts-2013/734-the-planet-can-t-keep-doing-us-a-favour.html
www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/alerts-2013/726-heading-for-a-different-planet-global-warming-irrefutable-science-and-the-failure-of-journalism.html
www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/alerts-2013/721-forever-groundhog-day-for-climate-a-tale-of-ice-smokescreens-and-rebellion.html

And the population at large continues to observe the majesty of impending disaster as passive consumers helpless to meaningfully alter the course of events.



Because the only possibility of meaningful change must be generated at a grass roots level as has been the case in the past. Change cannot come from politicians because no politician who contradicts the wishes of capital can ever succeed without appropriation or suppression in a world utterly dominated by capital.
Thus, David Icke (unwittingly) plays his role as a guru of distraction by urging his flock to adopt beliefs in harmony with the wishes of capital.

David Icke is entirely reliant on passive consumers. His publications contain very little that cannot be found by the average individual surfing the internet. The average individual may achieve a far greater understanding of the subjects he covers simply by reading standard works. A cursory glance at the footnotes of his work, where present, easily reveals David Icke has made no effort to explore the subjects about which he makes grand pronouncements in any depth. Indeed, much of his output can be easily relegated to the idle ruminations of a very average man. He guides his flock of impassioned, concerned citizens to imbibe simplistic and monstrously inaccurate viewpoints and dismisses the inevitable relegating of his adherents to the terrain of irrelevant crankery as the effect of brainwashing. Thus he acts to defuse the inherent potential of the disenfranchised whose interests would be better served in more sober reflections and more importantly coordinated action.

Here we have an illustration of one random way in which David Icke services the needs of the capitalist status quo. A dire example given its potential consequences.

There are more.
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Last Edit: 02 Jun 2013 10:25 by Chuck Random.
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Give me your money, suckers 02 Jun 2013 10:51 #15

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Chuck Random wrote:
Change cannot come from politicians because no politician who contradicts the wishes of capital can ever succeed without appropriation or suppression in a world utterly dominated by capital.

Agreed, we just see the same patterns of behavior over and over, regardless of who the face is on the podium.

Chuck Random wrote:
he acts to defuse the inherent potential of the disenfranchised whose interests would be better served in more sober reflections and more importantly coordinated action.

This is not the first time I read similar comments/concerns about the effects that presenters such as DI have on their audience.

What are your thoughts on coordinated action that the disenfranchised should/could take?

Consuming less of what corporations put out there for us to consume is an obvious one of course in my book, but what else should/could people be doing?
1365 = 1

1.1365 = 1,283,305,580,313,352
Last Edit: 02 Jun 2013 10:51 by novum.
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Give me your money, suckers 02 Jun 2013 15:59 #16

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novum wrote:
Chuck Random wrote:
Change cannot come from politicians because no politician who contradicts the wishes of capital can ever succeed without appropriation or suppression in a world utterly dominated by capital.

Agreed, we just see the same patterns of behavior over and over, regardless of who the face is on the podium.

Chuck Random wrote:
he acts to defuse the inherent potential of the disenfranchised whose interests would be better served in more sober reflections and more importantly coordinated action.

This is not the first time I read similar comments/concerns about the effects that presenters such as DI have on their audience.

What are your thoughts on coordinated action that the disenfranchised should/could take?

Consuming less of what corporations put out there for us to consume is an obvious one of course in my book, but what else should/could people be doing?

Consuming less may certainly be seen as desirable, but is restricted to an individual lifestyle choice that is unlikely to have great impact. Consumers may influence corporate bodies by their spending choices, but this simply represents minor adjustments within the system. With widespread severely reduced consumption, the system would possibly collapse, but very likely in an undesirable fashion.

Many people appear to expect or desire a saviour. If only there were a decent political party they say. People are excited about the people's voice because they feel it will bring something magical. But all it offers is further consumption. This may be valuable. High quality information (which I do suspect the people's voice will in the event severely lack) freely disseminated is of great use. But it only empowers us with information. Simply consuming that information does nothing. As does waiting for the political saviour to arrive.

The solution is tedious and frequently thankless and that is why it is easy to just consume. What this means is talking to people, joining with people and engaging in direct action. Direct action being that undertaken independently by the working class. The irony being conspiracists spend much time bemoaning the apathy and ignorance of the masses, and then expressing surprise and frustration when the masses do not suddenly leap into action. The last 100 years, and particularly the last 30, have seen a consolidated effort on the part of capital to strip away all previous advances.

The only real solution is to invest time in endeavouring to rebuild solidarity. It is of no use trying to convince people 911 was a conspiracy or that the moon is a construct; how does that change our daily lives? What does it really matter if people do not believe you? You are far better spending your time talking to people about concerns that affect their lives and organising a reaction against them. Do not wait for the saviour, do it yourself. Except this is very hard work and will at times feel as if it is going nowhere. But watching David Icke at Wembley stadium will achieve nothing and change nothing. Spending time for example trying to get colleagues in the workplace to remember they have collective power they can exercise might.

So the answer there is that there is no singular solution, only the realisation that there is the working class vs the boss class and its lackeys and you are as well placed to fight this as anybody else. Find a local issue. Form or join a campaign. Simply realise if you don't do it, nobody else can be expected to. Get on the streets. Push leaflets through doors. Call meetings at work. Talk to people you would normally avoid. 95% may dismiss you. A few will not.
If you approach people in the street, you will find the majority will hurry on by; you will also be surprised to meet some very interesting people. You will find it is virtually guaranteed all kinds of people with varying degrees of motivation are campaigning on something. Become one of them. What more can you do?

Do whatever you feel is creative. Do not wait for the politician. Do not wait for the mass awakening. Don't wait for anyone. Just get out there and do it. Learning as you go along.

That is, after all, what all the kings and queens and politicians have done.
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Give me your money, suckers 02 Jun 2013 18:41 #17

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Over £60k already.

Wow!

Are "donations" taxable income?
"...Wyrde saves oft the man undoomed
if he undaunted be....". (Beowulf).

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths... Beautiful people do not just happen". (Elisabeth Kubler-Ross).


:cavalier
Last Edit: 02 Jun 2013 18:44 by cantata.
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Give me your money, suckers 02 Jun 2013 20:15 #18

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cantata wrote:
Over £60k already.

Wow!

Are "donations" taxable income?

It has to be a registered charity for tax free I think for that, I may be wrong though
Last Edit: 02 Jun 2013 20:16 by username.
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Give me your money, suckers 02 Jun 2013 20:50 #19

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username wrote:
cantata wrote:
Over £60k already.

Wow!

Are "donations" taxable income?

It has to be a registered charity for tax free I think for that, I may be wrong though

Yes, the last time I looked at the law, that was the case, username - but this isn't a registered charity (is it? Yet?) so I just wondered if it was going to be open to taxation.

(I never read tax law - I have an aversion to numbers! :D ).
"...Wyrde saves oft the man undoomed
if he undaunted be....". (Beowulf).

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths... Beautiful people do not just happen". (Elisabeth Kubler-Ross).


:cavalier
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Give me your money, suckers 02 Jun 2013 20:58 #20

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cantata wrote:
Over £60k already.

Wow!

Are "donations" taxable income?

Icke will get that 100k plus extra real easy...
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