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TOPIC: Scottish independence.

Scottish independence. 17 Feb 2014 13:44 #1

  • jonb
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Tell us what we don't know.
The anti Scottish independence statements by the Westminster and EU authorities, have given away what many people have been saying about government for years, but the political cabals which run governments have refused to admit.
If the Scots vote for independence the division of Britain would be like any divorce, where mutually owned property is divided up. Fair enough and and the different parties like in any divorce would have different ideas about what proportion should go to each.
However the Westminster parties lib-lab, and cons say the pound belongs to them. This is a give away, who owns the pound? If the government is administering it on behalf of all the people of these islands then the several million Scots like in any divorce should have their rightful share, to say they have no right to it, means the pound never belonged to them, and by inference any people within Britain, but rather the pound belongs to the government administrators.

It is not your or my pound, it belongs to those in control. The Westminster parties have now admitted it!

Spokesmen for the EU say Scotland has no right to be part of the EU if the vote is for independence from Westminster.
Think about that, the people of Scotland presently are citizens of the EU that is what is on their passports. This statement from an EU spokesman means all Scots would loose their citizenship if they chose to be administered from Edinburgh, rather than Westminster.
What does that mean?
It says that citizenship is not a right, but is only given to you by the government that owns you.


YOU ARE A SLAVE
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Scottish independence. 17 Feb 2014 17:10 #2

  • Paul Tootall
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Everyone knowingly or unknowingly consents to be a slave at the moment, except for those in the freeman movement, the ones who fight it every step of the way... and even they still follow the rules to some degree.

I guess it needs everyone, and I mean enough people as is needed, to down tools, stop paying taxes, withdraw from the system, grow their own food and go off grid, but the population is so dumbed down now that they haven't got a clue as to how to cook, let alone plant gardens or even sew on a button. I would say 90% of the population don't even have more than 3 days food at any one time in the house either.

So I won't hold my breath.

People are sold into slavery as soon as they are born. The best prison in the world has no bars and is self regulating.

Welcome to UK Plc....
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Scottish independence. 17 Feb 2014 22:37 #3

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That is exactly right!

The give away is in these terms that are introduced in the background to set the agenda
first in the eighties we had
UK PLC
our land as a public limited company, then the concept is introduced of stakeholder economy.
And now it is admitted that we have no stake in UK PLC only the government owns it.
We are its property.
Last Edit: 17 Feb 2014 22:37 by jonb.
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Scottish independence. 17 Feb 2014 23:58 #4

  • Chuck Random
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I do have a problem with the notion of Scottish Independence. Which is -

How come those bastards might get to escape?!?

How about North of England independence?!?
No War But The Class War
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Scottish independence. 18 Feb 2014 00:20 #5

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Chuck are you really following the tory line, that the Cockneys do not exist,and there were no mines in Kent. That Harrogate is a slum of underpaid workers. Your borders may be different, but at heart are you not as nationalist in outlook as the average Ukip member?
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Scottish independence. 18 Feb 2014 12:46 #6

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Is Scottish independence basically the same thing as North Ireland independence?
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Scottish independence. 18 Feb 2014 13:30 #7

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In that parts of the population, want independence from Westminster yes, but as always the devil is in he detail and as such they become different matters. An obvious first difference is that Scottish independence is not driven by religion in the same way as it is in northern Ireland.
But that is to go off on a side issue a bit.
You see although our main governments in the EU are national, hex from Finland and I are EU citizens, this is on our passports. However, if Scotland is going to be administered from Edinburgh, rather than Westminster, It is said they are no longer of the EU. So they will loose their citizenship. To put that in American terms If north and south Texas divided their administration, because a set of people no longer wanted to be administered from Huston they would loose their American Citizenship.
That would mean they are not citizens of the state in any conventional sense, but the right to be part of the state they were born into is in the gift of the administering body. If that is the accepted procedure then nobody in the EU is a citizen of the EU, but rather we are just chattels that governing bodies can decide in which category we belong at any particular time.
I maybe an EU citizen today, but that status can be taken from me at any time which effectively means I am stateless.
UK PLC
The little slogan gives it away and is a pointer to the thinking. Public limited company. The Limited refers to limited Liability, it can go bust and those who own it will not be held liable for the debt. Any rights the individual citizen of the country think they may have does not have to be supported by the governors of the state. The EU citizen has been effectively disenfranchised.
Last Edit: 18 Feb 2014 13:32 by jonb.
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Scottish independence. 18 Feb 2014 20:22 #8

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jonb wrote:
Chuck are you really following the tory line, that the Cockneys do not exist,and there were no mines in Kent. That Harrogate is a slum of underpaid workers. Your borders may be different, but at heart are you not as nationalist in outlook as the average Ukip member?

Not at all Jon. Just being selfishly envious of the Scots escaping the claws of Westminster.

Cockneys are my comrades. Even if they do have an annoying accent.
No War But The Class War
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Scottish independence. 18 Feb 2014 21:52 #9

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I owe you a shandy Chuck
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Scottish independence. 19 Feb 2014 03:39 #10

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jonb wrote:
An obvious first difference is that Scottish independence is not driven by religion in the same way as it is in northern Ireland.

I watched the VICE special on Belfast and was left thinking the problem really has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with something called the orange order.
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Scottish independence. 19 Feb 2014 09:34 #11

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None of it is to do with religion, it is all to do with control. They just used religion as the dividing principle. Just like everything else, divide and rule with useful idiots.

Religion is one of the oldest control mechanisms in use today, along with all the other "ism's" they have brought in. Till people stop looking at the smoke and mirrors and start to see who is making the smoke behind the mirrors that they are blowing up everyone's arse we will get nowhere.
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Scottish independence. 19 Feb 2014 11:17 #12

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Paul is right, the setting of of one side against another is often how control is maintained. dots to blame the Orange order alone for the situation In Ulster, is to totally forget, the crushing hold the catholic church has over Irish society. When Ireland won its independence there were more non Catholics in southern Ireland than there were in northern Ireland. Where are they now?
There is a British Celebrity Graham Norton, Who is a homosexual, who grew up in southern Ireland. The discrimination he suffered in his childhood was not because he is gay, but because his family are non catholic.
If you look at films like the Quiet man by John Ford, staring John Wane

wiki

You will notice although it is an excellent film and very evocative of an idea of a perfect Ireland, it is also propaganda of the first order,clearly getting across the message there were no non Catholics in Ireland, apart from an vicar and a bishop all the rest just pretended to be protestants.
If you look at Ireland once it was getting independence you see a whole sale butchery of every left winger involved in the fight for independence, and the strangle hold on power of those favoured by the catholic church.
The Ken Laoch film 'The Wind That Shakes the Barley' is about the assassination of Michael Collins, in the Irish civil war which followed Independence, but is part of history that is often swept under the carpet because Irish Americans are supposed to identify with the Irish state, and not see that it is as much an imposition on Irish people as are most other states. Remember the driving force behind the Orange lodges, is a fear of what the catholic Church has done to them in the past and will do again given half a chance.

I have to make it clear that I am not in support of any one group over the other, but I am advising you dots not to presume one side is better than another without finding out more about the situation.
Last Edit: 19 Feb 2014 11:19 by jonb.
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Scottish independence. 19 Feb 2014 15:06 #13

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Thanks for your post Paul & jonb...

I look at it like this, until British people gain the courage to end the Monarchy every union jack in Ireland needs to be burned.

The Royals bring shame to white people and groups like the orange order should never walk the streets of Ireland.
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Scottish independence. 19 Feb 2014 16:07 #14

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.......... wrote:
Thanks for your post Paul & jonb...

I look at it like this, until British people gain the courage to end the Monarchy every union jack in Ireland needs to be burned.

The Royals bring shame to white people and groups like the orange order should never walk the streets of Ireland.

What are the colours of the Irish Flag?
Which group first sort for independence?

It is nice to see somebody armed with all the knowledge of one documentary thinks they are in the position to tell people of a different land (Ulster), what they should think do and belong to.
Colonialism is as strong as ever and living in America, got your number dots.
Last Edit: 19 Feb 2014 16:08 by jonb.
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Scottish independence. 19 Feb 2014 16:21 #15

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jonb wrote:
.......... wrote:
Thanks for your post Paul & jonb...

I look at it like this, until British people gain the courage to end the Monarchy every union jack in Ireland needs to be burned.

The Royals bring shame to white people and groups like the orange order should never walk the streets of Ireland.

What are the colours of the Irish Flag?
Which group first sort for independence?

It is nice to see somebody armed with all the knowledge of one documentary thinks they are in the position to tell people of a different land (Ulster), what they should think do and belong to.
Colonialism is as strong as ever and living in America, got your number dots.

please elaborate...
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Scottish independence. 19 Feb 2014 16:37 #16

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The IRA was founded by Ulster protestants of the Orange order, The Irish Flag is green white and ORANGE! yet you and American say the Irish have no right to their inheritance, because armed with your trifling knowledge of a complex situation you seem to think you have right to tell others what they are allowed to say and what groups they should be allowed to belong.
You are an American, People in glass houses and all of that.
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Scottish independence. 19 Feb 2014 16:45 #17

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jonb wrote:
yet you and American say the Irish have no right to their inheritance,

What do you mean by this?

I stand by my post, but i'm not acting like i have knowledge of the situation outside of a few youtube documentaries.

And the U2 song Sunday bloody Sunday...
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Scottish independence. 19 Feb 2014 16:57 #18

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.......... wrote:

groups like the orange order should never walk the streets of Ireland.
Who are you to say this?
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Scottish independence. 19 Feb 2014 17:06 #19

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jonb wrote:
.......... wrote:

groups like the orange order should never walk the streets of Ireland.
Who are you to say this?

Who are you to say they should?
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Scottish independence. 19 Feb 2014 17:23 #20

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Have I expressed an opinion as you have on how others should live?
Who is demonstrating a colonialist attitude?
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