Your donations are appreciated and help keep this site running. Even the smallest amount helps.
Thankyou

 
PROMOTE YOUR SITE
HERE
Only $3 USD/month

 

 

Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast.

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast. 25 Sep 2016 15:57 #1

  • GMP
  • GMP's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Silver Member
  • Posts: 3506
  • Likes received: 857
Germany's CDU, the party of Chancellor Angela Merkel, has described the party's historic losses in Berlin state elections as a "bitter defeat".
It was ousted from the state coalition with the centre-left Social Democrats.
Meanwhile right-wing anti-migrant party Alternative for Germany (AfD) will enter the state parliament for the first time with 14% of the vote.
Mrs Merkel's popularity has waned since her decision last year to allow more than a million migrants into Germany.
The CDU won 17.6% of the vote - its worst-ever result in Berlin.
It is the party's second electoral blow this month, having been pushed into third place by AfD in Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania. AfD will now be represented in 10 out of 16 state parliaments.
Mrs Merkel told reporters that, if she could, she would turn the clock back many years to prepare the government better for the influx of migrants and refugees.
Last Edit: 25 Sep 2016 15:58 by GMP.
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast. 25 Sep 2016 16:03 #2

  • Orangeaid
  • Orangeaid's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 11646
  • Likes received: 8030
Mrs Merkel told reporters that, if she could, she would turn the clock back many years to prepare the government better for the influx of migrants and refugees.

She is a communist through and through. The stupid communist bitch won't admit it's because Germans don't want their country and culture destroyed by mass third world immigration.
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.
User(s) who Liked this post: novum, PFIZIPFEI, GMP

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast. 25 Sep 2016 16:13 #3

  • GMP
  • GMP's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Silver Member
  • Posts: 3506
  • Likes received: 857
Yep. Notice she's still banging on about 'preparing' for refugees.
No word about - not letting any more in or repatriating the feckers already arrived - which is what AfD sensibly advocates.
Over 1 million 'refugees' into Germany so far with little sign of the influx ending.
Total madness and German electors are rightly sick of Merkel.
AfD deserves to go from strength to strength.
Last Edit: 25 Sep 2016 16:13 by GMP.
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.
User(s) who Liked this post: Orangeaid

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast. 25 Sep 2016 16:46 #4

  • Voltaire
  • Voltaire's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Silver Member
  • Posts: 3670
  • Likes received: 2216
Hingerichten Merkel.


Truth is anti-semitic
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast. 25 Sep 2016 16:52 #5

  • GMP
  • GMP's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Silver Member
  • Posts: 3506
  • Likes received: 857
Voltaire wrote:
Hingerichten Merkel.

I wouldn't go so far as that Voltaire but Mrs Merkel richly deserves a drubbing in each and every election plus, possibly; an extended jail term for the mayhem she has caused.
Wherever a new right populist party is canvassing support over in Europe or here in Blighty, that party is doing increasingly well at the polls.
Electors are canny folk who welcome the opportunity to vote for policies that THEY wish to see enacted.
Last Edit: 25 Sep 2016 16:54 by GMP.
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast. 25 Sep 2016 17:13 #6

  • PFIZIPFEI
  • PFIZIPFEI's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • WORDS are my SWORD
  • Posts: 20377
  • Likes received: 7951
Orangeaid wrote:
She is a communist through and through. The stupid communist bitch won't admit it's because Germans don't want their country and culture destroyed by mass third world immigration.


Her (((Polish))) grandparents changed their name from KAZMIERCZAK to Kasner, when they moved to Berlin.

Then she married and divorced Merkel and now she is married Sauer (sour) but still calls herself Merkel, for whatever reason.

grandmasterp of the dif pit pushes AfD like mad, which to me is the best proof, besides other reasons, that they are totally system controlled.

There is no "New Right" aka "alt right", all of them are gollums.

Calling this ... despicable creature ... Mrs Merkel says it all already!

:joker:
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
Last Edit: 25 Sep 2016 17:17 by PFIZIPFEI.
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.
User(s) who Liked this post: Steven

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast. 25 Sep 2016 17:27 #7

  • GMP
  • GMP's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Silver Member
  • Posts: 3506
  • Likes received: 857
PFIZIPFEI wrote:
Orangeaid wrote:
She is a communist through and through. The stupid communist bitch won't admit it's because Germans don't want their country and culture destroyed by mass third world immigration.


Her (((Polish))) grandparents changed their name from KAZMIERCZAK to Kasner, when they moved to Berlin.

Then she married and divorced Merkel and now she is married Sauer (sour) but still calls herself Merkel, for whatever reason.

grandmasterp of the dif pit pushes AfD like mad, which to me is the best proof, besides other reasons, that they are totally system controlled.

There is no "New Right" aka "alt right", all of them are gollums.

Calling this ... despicable creature ... Mrs Merkel says it all already!

:joker:

+1 for logic there Pfizipie.
GMP boosts the new right parties in Europe and Blighty therefore the new right parties in Europe and Blighty are 'gollums'.
Just for discussion love - where does your logic leave all those electors who like the policies of new right parties and vote accordingly.
Do they know less than you know at the ballot box?
Do tell.
:)
Last Edit: 25 Sep 2016 17:28 by GMP.
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast. 25 Sep 2016 17:30 #8

  • PFIZIPFEI
  • PFIZIPFEI's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • WORDS are my SWORD
  • Posts: 20377
  • Likes received: 7951
GMP wrote:
+1 for logic there Pfizipie.
GMP boosts the new right parties in Europe and Blighty therefore the new right parties in Europe and Blighty are 'gollums'.
Just for discussion love - where does your logic leave all those electors who like the policies of new right parties and vote accordingly.
Do they know less than you know at the ballot box?
Do tell.
:)




THE ISRAEL CONNECTION AND THE JUDEO RIGHT


The pictures speak volumes




The Frankfurt School think tanks in the US of A created the European "New Right" - including Pegida, AfD ....


I don't believe in "elections".


:right: truth-zone.net/forum/government-and-authority/67424-poll-elections-referendums-etc-real-or-scam.html

.
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.
User(s) who Liked this post: Orangeaid, Steven

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast. 25 Sep 2016 17:37 #9

  • Voltaire
  • Voltaire's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Silver Member
  • Posts: 3670
  • Likes received: 2216
If that analysis is correct Pfiz, what hope is there?

That is rhetorical - I do not expect you to solve the problem or even address it, unless you wish to do so. Very depressing


Truth is anti-semitic
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.
User(s) who Liked this post: Orangeaid

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast. 25 Sep 2016 17:55 #10

  • PFIZIPFEI
  • PFIZIPFEI's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • WORDS are my SWORD
  • Posts: 20377
  • Likes received: 7951
Voltaire wrote:
If that analysis is correct Pfiz, what hope is there?

That is rhetorical - I do not expect you to solve the problem or even address it, unless you wish to do so. Very depressing


There is always hope.

Hope dies last, they say.

From my point of view this problem can not be solved on the "political" Punch & Judy stage,
which is a mere distraction and corrupted to the core. It's a show for the slaves, so that they
will keep on dreaming that they are living in a "democracy". It's fake. Deceit of the most base
kind, totally depending on the msm.

As long as the slaves are hoping and waiting for a solution of their problems from "above" ie the government,
father state, as this illusionary construct is called in German, they are doing nothing but behave like toddlers,
who are totally dependent on their cruel parents.

People need to wake up from this induced illusion and become fully conscious and self-responsible
acting adults before it's too late, because the Rabeneltern, are living off of the children's life energy
instead of nourishing them.

This perverse scam is now becoming increasingly obvious and there are not many options left.

They know that we know and thus they do no longer care to hide their true colours.

More later.

.
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
Last Edit: 25 Sep 2016 18:00 by PFIZIPFEI.
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.
User(s) who Liked this post: Steven, Gaia

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast. 25 Sep 2016 18:03 #11

  • Voltaire
  • Voltaire's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Silver Member
  • Posts: 3670
  • Likes received: 2216
Pfizipfei wrote
They know that we know and thus they do no longer care to hide their true colours.

That is something I agree with and that more people are waking up. It is a race between us and them, the winner (for me) is still unknown.


Truth is anti-semitic
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.
User(s) who Liked this post: Orangeaid

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast. 26 Sep 2016 14:57 #12

  • GMP
  • GMP's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Silver Member
  • Posts: 3506
  • Likes received: 857
If democracy is a 'show for the slaves' as you claim it to be Pfizipie.
One presumes that the streets and roads around your home go unmaintained, you never pay local or national taxes; your garbage is never taken away and unregulated landlords are free to charge whatever rent they choose round your way.
Who is the slave love?
Somebody who chooses to vote for change, work for change and agitatate for change.
Or somebody who can't be ersed even to turn up and vote let alone do anything else to facilitate community flourishing in and around their own neighbourhood.
Have you no friends or neighbours that you do not despise poor Pfizi?
:(
Last Edit: 26 Sep 2016 14:59 by GMP.
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast. 27 Sep 2016 05:29 #13

  • novum
  • novum's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 18711
  • Likes received: 8830
PFIZIPFEI wrote:
Voltaire wrote:
If that analysis is correct Pfiz, what hope is there?

That is rhetorical - I do not expect you to solve the problem or even address it, unless you wish to do so. Very depressing


There is always hope.

Hope dies last, they say.

From my point of view this problem can not be solved on the "political" Punch & Judy stage,
which is a mere distraction and corrupted to the core. It's a show for the slaves, so that they
will keep on dreaming that they are living in a "democracy". It's fake. Deceit of the most base
kind, totally depending on the msm.

As long as the slaves are hoping and waiting for a solution of their problems from "above" ie the government,
father state, as this illusionary construct is called in German, they are doing nothing but behave like toddlers,
who are totally dependent on their cruel parents.

People need to wake up from this induced illusion and become fully conscious and self-responsible
acting adults before it's too late, because the Rabeneltern, are living off of the children's life energy
instead of nourishing them.

This perverse scam is now becoming increasingly obvious and there are not many options left.

They know that we know and thus they do no longer care to hide their true colours.

More later.

.

How do you ensure that what you want to replace it with is ethical though?

Serious question.

If another glorious leader manifested for you, how would you know he is the one?

Back to afd and it still sends a message out that people dont want what merkin is doing... the kalergi worshipping string pullers would still prefer if people loved miss merkin, imo.
I remember the good old days, when 90+ year olds in nursing homes lived forever. Darn this pesky virus.

1365 = 1

1.1365 = 1,283,305,580,313,352
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.
User(s) who Liked this post: Orangeaid, GMP

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast. 27 Sep 2016 05:41 #14

  • Gaia
  • Gaia's Avatar
  • Online
  • Gold Member
  • Posts: 7666
  • Likes received: 1656
AfD is like UKIP a decent showcase that people indeed are fed up with the EU (their main point, the anti-immigrant thing came later).

But they are useless as they play in the same arena.

Brexit will not happen just as a Deuxit will not happen. No matter how many "votes" those parties get (even if they would be real votes).

Just look at all the other historical "revolutions". All scripted.

- American Revolution
- French Revolution
- Russian Revolution
- Cuban Revolution
- Venezuelan Revolution
- Iranian Revolution
- Arabian Spring

Every one of them was controlled.

Or as Exorcist's sig says: "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss".
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.
User(s) who Liked this post: Steven

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast. 27 Sep 2016 15:27 #15

  • GMP
  • GMP's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Silver Member
  • Posts: 3506
  • Likes received: 857
Gaia wrote:
AfD is like UKIP a decent showcase that people indeed are fed up with the EU (their main point, the anti-immigrant thing came later).

But they are useless as they play in the same arena.

Brexit will not happen just as a Deuxit will not happen. No matter how many "votes" those parties get (even if they would be real votes).

Just look at all the other historical "revolutions". All scripted.

- American Revolution
- French Revolution
- Russian Revolution
- Cuban Revolution
- Venezuelan Revolution
- Iranian Revolution
- Arabian Spring

Every one of them was controlled.

Or as Exorcist's sig says: "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss".

Fair call Gaia and you are spot on as far as 'failed revolutions' go.
Revolutionary leaders end up as the next 'boss class' once their revolution has been won.
I don't see that as being an issue for the new-right though.
Delegate democracy implies that electors elect representatives as delegates to present their views.
That's libertarian plus new-right. Electors call the shots and if their elected member doesn't act as a delegate then said elected member is replaced via a local by-election without having to wait for the next general election, as is currently the case.
The old order politics was, and still is; all about 'representative democracy' and all that means is that electors get to vote once every five years but those they elect, and who form a government; get do whatever they then decide to do during that five years. Even if the electors who voted for them don't agree.
Delegate democracy does not lead to 'more of the same' because it is radically different from what went before.
Last Edit: 27 Sep 2016 15:29 by GMP.
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast. 27 Sep 2016 23:14 #16

  • Gaia
  • Gaia's Avatar
  • Online
  • Gold Member
  • Posts: 7666
  • Likes received: 1656
GMP, imagine the following:


There are one million households who can 'vote' for a new bathroom. 30 plumbers/engineers/workmen are selected to build that new bathroom. 100,000 households voted for Company A. Company A starts working on the 100,000 new bathrooms. It takes 4 years to build the bathroom which is paid by those 100,000 households. Then after 4 years the result is there; it's horrible. Pink tiles, the toilet is placed just below the sink and instead of water, there's HCN coming from the shower...

What is "the solution"?

The bathroom company A says; "well, if you don't like my work, you can select Company B [with an equally poor track record], pay again and get a new bathroom built, a process that takes another 4 years."

The kicker is; "you do not have to pay the full amount, we, benevolent Bathroom Company, let other households, who didn't select us pay for it too and we take a loan on the children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of your household and they will pay their full life for the crappy bathroom we are coming to install."

Does that sound like a fair deal to you? :emb:

The thing is:
- you, as household, have no control over the costs
- no control over how the bathroom will be built
- no control over which bathroom companies will be in the tombola for this, or any next, four year period

A libertarian advocates that with a couple of households, we select the company, not from some preselected list, out of our control, yet based on the expertise in buidling bathrooms, we control the costs, negotiate the time period and we don't want other households or our children (and their children) to be burdened by unfair loans. We also select the materials and are involved in the planning and execution of the project.

Now does that sound like a fair deal to you...? :yup:
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
Last Edit: 27 Sep 2016 23:18 by Gaia.
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.
User(s) who Liked this post: GMP

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast. 27 Sep 2016 23:19 #17

  • Flare
  • Flare's Avatar
  • Online
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 16926
  • Likes received: 6240
Gaia wrote:
GMP, imagine the following:


There are one million households who can 'vote' for a new bathroom. 30 plumbers/engineers/workmen are selected to build that new bathroom. 100,000 households voted for Company A. Company A starts working on the 100,000 new bathrooms. It takes 4 years to build the bathroom which is paid by those 100,000 households. Then after 4 years the result is there; it's horrible. Pink tiles, the toilet is placed just below the sink and instead of water, there's HCN coming from the shower...

What is "the solution"?

The bathroom company A says; "well, if you don't like my work, you can select Company B [with an equally poor track record], pay again and get a new bathroom built, a process that takes another 4 years."

The kicker is; "you do not have to pay the full amount, we, benevolent Bathroom Company, let other households, who didn't select us pay for it too and we take a loan on the children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of your household and they will pay their full life for the crappy bathroom we are coming to install."

Does that sound like a fair deal to you? :emb:

The thing is:
- you, as household, have no control over the costs
- no control over how the bathroom will be built
- no control over which bathroom companies will be in the tombola for this, or any next, four year period

A libertarian advocates that with a couple of households, we select the company, not from some preselected list, out of our control, yet based on the expertise in buidling bathrooms, we control the costs, negotiate the time period and we don't want other households or our children (and their children) to be burdened by unfair loans. We also select the materials and are involved in the planning and execution of the project.

Now does that sound like a fair deal to you...? :yup:

Nope, doesn't sound fair.

This sounds more fair:

18. We demand the ruthless prosecution of those whose activities are injurious to the common interest. Common criminals, usurers, profiteers, etc., must be punished with death, whatever their creed or race.
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast 28 Sep 2016 13:23 #18

  • GMP
  • GMP's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Silver Member
  • Posts: 3506
  • Likes received: 857
Gaia wrote:
GMP, imagine the following:


There are one million households who can 'vote' for a new bathroom. 30 plumbers/engineers/workmen are selected to build that new bathroom. 100,000 households voted for Company A. Company A starts working on the 100,000 new bathrooms. It takes 4 years to build the bathroom which is paid by those 100,000 households. Then after 4 years the result is there; it's horrible. Pink tiles, the toilet is placed just below the sink and instead of water, there's HCN coming from the shower...

What is "the solution"?

The bathroom company A says; "well, if you don't like my work, you can select Company B [with an equally poor track record], pay again and get a new bathroom built, a process that takes another 4 years."

The kicker is; "you do not have to pay the full amount, we, benevolent Bathroom Company, let other households, who didn't select us pay for it too and we take a loan on the children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of your household and they will pay their full life for the crappy bathroom we are coming to install."

Does that sound like a fair deal to you? :emb:

The thing is:
- you, as household, have no control over the costs
- no control over how the bathroom will be built
- no control over which bathroom companies will be in the tombola for this, or any next, four year period

A libertarian advocates that with a couple of households, we select the company, not from some preselected list, out of our control, yet based on the expertise in buidling bathrooms, we control the costs, negotiate the time period and we don't want other households or our children (and their children) to be burdened by unfair loans. We also select the materials and are involved in the planning and execution of the project.

Now does that sound like a fair deal to you...? :yup:

Yep that works for me Gaia.
Same goes for delegate democracy. You get to choose from a menu of candidates and if the one you pick doesn't deliver then you get to pick someone else without having to wait up to five years for the next general election.
If a delegate doesn't deliver that delegate gets sacked.
People power rather than rule by a political clique.
:)
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast 28 Sep 2016 16:17 #19

  • Gaia
  • Gaia's Avatar
  • Online
  • Gold Member
  • Posts: 7666
  • Likes received: 1656
GMP wrote:
Gaia wrote:
GMP, imagine the following:


There are one million households who can 'vote' for a new bathroom. 30 plumbers/engineers/workmen are selected to build that new bathroom. 100,000 households voted for Company A. Company A starts working on the 100,000 new bathrooms. It takes 4 years to build the bathroom which is paid by those 100,000 households. Then after 4 years the result is there; it's horrible. Pink tiles, the toilet is placed just below the sink and instead of water, there's HCN coming from the shower...

What is "the solution"?

The bathroom company A says; "well, if you don't like my work, you can select Company B [with an equally poor track record], pay again and get a new bathroom built, a process that takes another 4 years."

The kicker is; "you do not have to pay the full amount, we, benevolent Bathroom Company, let other households, who didn't select us pay for it too and we take a loan on the children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of your household and they will pay their full life for the crappy bathroom we are coming to install."

Does that sound like a fair deal to you? :emb:

The thing is:
- you, as household, have no control over the costs
- no control over how the bathroom will be built
- no control over which bathroom companies will be in the tombola for this, or any next, four year period

A libertarian advocates that with a couple of households, we select the company, not from some preselected list, out of our control, yet based on the expertise in buidling bathrooms, we control the costs, negotiate the time period and we don't want other households or our children (and their children) to be burdened by unfair loans. We also select the materials and are involved in the planning and execution of the project.

Now does that sound like a fair deal to you...? :yup:

Yep that works for me Gaia.
Same goes for delegate democracy. You get to choose from a menu of candidates and if the one you pick doesn't deliver then you get to pick someone else without having to wait up to five years for the next general election.
If a delegate doesn't deliver that delegate gets sacked.
People power rather than rule by a political clique.
:)
"Choice" from a "menu" of delegates is that preselected list of bathroom companies, so that is not free choice.
"Sack delegates"? How would that work? On which basis? If you don't like what a 'delegate' is doing, you can remove him/her from the position? And what if the majority actually likes that 'delegate'? Who "wins" and "loses" then?

People power cannot exist in statism, because that is set-up against people power.
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.

Merkel rattled as AfD wins 14% of votes cast 28 Sep 2016 16:50 #20

  • GMP
  • GMP's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Silver Member
  • Posts: 3506
  • Likes received: 857
Gaia wrote:
GMP wrote:
Gaia wrote:
GMP, imagine the following:


There are one million households who can 'vote' for a new bathroom. 30 plumbers/engineers/workmen are selected to build that new bathroom. 100,000 households voted for Company A. Company A starts working on the 100,000 new bathrooms. It takes 4 years to build the bathroom which is paid by those 100,000 households. Then after 4 years the result is there; it's horrible. Pink tiles, the toilet is placed just below the sink and instead of water, there's HCN coming from the shower...

What is "the solution"?

The bathroom company A says; "well, if you don't like my work, you can select Company B [with an equally poor track record], pay again and get a new bathroom built, a process that takes another 4 years."

The kicker is; "you do not have to pay the full amount, we, benevolent Bathroom Company, let other households, who didn't select us pay for it too and we take a loan on the children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of your household and they will pay their full life for the crappy bathroom we are coming to install."

Does that sound like a fair deal to you? :emb:

The thing is:
- you, as household, have no control over the costs
- no control over how the bathroom will be built
- no control over which bathroom companies will be in the tombola for this, or any next, four year period

A libertarian advocates that with a couple of households, we select the company, not from some preselected list, out of our control, yet based on the expertise in buidling bathrooms, we control the costs, negotiate the time period and we don't want other households or our children (and their children) to be burdened by unfair loans. We also select the materials and are involved in the planning and execution of the project.

Now does that sound like a fair deal to you...? :yup:

Yep that works for me Gaia.
Same goes for delegate democracy. You get to choose from a menu of candidates and if the one you pick doesn't deliver then you get to pick someone else without having to wait up to five years for the next general election.
If a delegate doesn't deliver that delegate gets sacked.
People power rather than rule by a political clique.
:)
"Choice" from a "menu" of delegates is that preselected list of bathroom companies, so that is not free choice.
"Sack delegates"? How would that work? On which basis? If you don't like what a 'delegate' is doing, you can remove him/her from the position? And what if the majority actually likes that 'delegate'? Who "wins" and "loses" then?

People power cannot exist in statism, because that is set-up against people power.

It sorta does work already in Tier 1 local government here.
We elect Tier 1 councillors every four years.
However if we don't like what they are doing it only takes 200 electors to call a by-election.
The Swiss Canton model is good too, lots of referendums but people get to decide on all government policies and can change their delegate-representatives if those aren't doing their job.
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.
Moderators: novum, rodin, Flare
Powered by Kunena Forum

Annual Server Target

Whether its 50 cents or five dollars, your donations are appreciated and help keep this community site running so we can all continue to enjoy using it. Secure transactions via paypal.
This target is to meet our server cost for one year, June 2020 - May 2021, in USD.
$ 340 - Target
( £ 250 GBP )
donation thermometer
donation thermometer
$ 192 - Raised
( £ 140 GBP )
donation thermometer
56%
Most Recent Donation $122 USD
4th January 2021

No one is obliged to donate, please only donate what you can afford. Even the smallest amount helps. Being an active member is a positive contribution. Thank You.