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TOPIC: The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda

The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 15:10 #21

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PFIZIPFEI wrote:
Of course you can be jailed for publicly saying ''I'm a National Socialist, National Socialism was a good ideology''.

Sad.

.


So who has been jailed for stating the above? Or where is the legislation to which you refer?


Remember we're discussing ''National Socialism'' not holocaust denial.

The ''new member'' changed his statement, thus far you have a lot of hot air, but where are your examples of those being jailed simply for promoting National Socialism, and nothing else?
You will always be a hyena.
Last Edit: 22 Dec 2016 15:15 by Frothy.
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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 15:25 #22

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Ausrotten wrote:
So who has been jailed for stating for promoting National Socialist values? Or Where is the legislation to which you refer.

I'm happy to retract what I posted about that, but thus far you have made an empty claim.

But remember we're discussing ''National Socialism'' not holocaust denial,


It was you, who came up with the claim that


Ausrotten wrote:
nobody has said ''I'm a National Socialist, National Socialism was a good ideology'' and thus been jailed.
truth-zone.net/forum/novum-general-discussion/68614-the-tz-national-socialist-agenda.html?limitstart=0#243496



:right: FRG CRIMINAL CODE SECTION 130 REVISED & EXTENDED 1-1-16 N/JWO truth-zone.net/forum/pfizipfei-forum-general-discussion/66286-frg-criminal-code-section-130-revised-extended-1-1-16-nwo.html


The system does not publish lists of incarcerated dissidents.
People just end up in jail, if other repression methods did not silence them.


Only VIP dissidents, like Horst Mahler, Sylvia Stolz, Ursula Haverbeck, Germar Rudolf, Gerd Honsik, Gerhard Ittner ...
receive utmost public scorn and derision by the msm, besides the usual lies and hate propaganda.

Just like you, the system is exactly accusing dissidents of what the system is doing.

Typical Orwellian upside-down behaviour.

Too boring to repeat everything that has been discussed on TZ in details already uncountable times.

End of discussion.

Suck the energy of someone else.

.
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
Last Edit: 22 Dec 2016 15:34 by PFIZIPFEI.
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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 15:48 #23

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Of course you can be jailed for publicly saying ''I'm a National Socialist, National Socialism was a good ideology''.

If this is so """of course""", maybe you could show some dozens of examples?

:roll:
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 15:54 #24

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Gaia wrote:
Of course you can be jailed for publicly saying ''I'm a National Socialist, National Socialism was a good ideology''.

If this is so """of course""", maybe you could show some dozens of examples?

:roll:


Read what I said.

.
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 16:07 #25

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Gaia wrote:
PFIZIPFEI wrote:
Of course you can be jailed for publicly saying ''I'm a National Socialist, National Socialism was a good ideology''.

If this is so """of course""", maybe you could show some dozens of examples?

:roll:

The thing is, one will hardly find someone who will say so in the public...and if so, he or she will loose its job instantly and very likely will be fined to destroy its financial fundaments and will never ever get its feet on the ground again. If the one then still says so publicly, then jail would be the next option.
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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 16:19 #26

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Yes, I've done that Pfizi. But your last post is not making your claim better, in fact your killing your own claim.

Your claim is "people get jailed for being proNazi". When asked for evidence to back up your claim, you not only admit you don't have it, you're saying there IS no evidence. So if there are no "list of incarcenations", then how can you make your claim in the first place?

You're actually saying: "people are jailed for being pro-Nazi, but I cannot prove it, you just have to believe it, just as I make myself believe it"


There is no law against being pro-Nazi.
In certain countries there are -horrible, ridiculous- laws against """(((Holocaust denial)))""".
You are equating the two, on purpose, as that is the MO against "revisionists but not pro-Nazi" as are annabelle, Exorcist, Truthspoon and me here.

According to the mainstream (so lies), Irving, Rudolf and Haverbeck were jailed for Holocaust """Denial""", NOT for being pro-Nazi.

Irving and Rudolf are not even pro-Nazi.
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
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"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 16:25 #27

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Steven wrote:
Gaia wrote:
PFIZIPFEI wrote:
Of course you can be jailed for publicly saying ''I'm a National Socialist, National Socialism was a good ideology''.

If this is so """of course""", maybe you could show some dozens of examples?

:roll:

The thing is, one will hardly find someone who will say so in the public...and if so, he or she will loose its job instantly and very likely will be fined to destroy its financial fundaments and will never ever get its feet on the ground again. If the one then still says so publicly, then jail would be the next option.
Everything you say is true until and except your last sentence. And that's the whole point; there is no law against supporting Nazism. There is a law that says "one cannot downgrade the 6 million", laws against "glorifying the holocaust" and "discrimination laws" but they are useless in what you and Pfizi claim. And on top of that, yes, convictions are publicised. You may have to dig them up in ofline archives, which is a lot of work, but it's not kept secret why people are convicted. Luckily we don't live in North Korea.
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A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 16:31 #28

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Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]



STOP trying to suck my energy, gaia. I couldn't care less what you believe or don't.

Your claim is "people get jailed for being proNazi". When asked for evidence to back up your claim, you not only admit you don't have it, you're saying there IS no evidence. So if there are no "list of incarcenations", then how can you make your claim in the first place?

There are no lists and hardly any msm publications on imprisoned dissidents, but you can definitely be jailed for publicliy stating
what Verrottet falsely claimed to not be punishable,
§ 130 truth-zone.net/forum/pfizipfei-forum-general-discussion/66286-frg-criminal-code-section-130-revised-extended-1-1-16-nwo.html
this is the only way for the system to suppress free speech, otherwise legions of people might say it publicly.

:)
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
Last Edit: 22 Dec 2016 16:32 by PFIZIPFEI.
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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 16:36 #29

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TZ has some NS bosters.
TZ has some populist new-right boosters.
TZ has at least one communist.
TZ has a couple of libertarians.
All post regularly and , Pfizipie excepted, we seem to get on pretty well together.
IMO that is unique for a Truther forum.
Generally NS boosters and anti NS boosters just piss about elsewhere shouting abuse at each other.
That tends not to happen here ( Pfiz excepted).
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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 16:43 #30

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GMP wrote:
(...) shouting abuse at each other.
That tends not to happen here ( Pfiz excepted).

"Abuse" according to your typical exclusive prerogative of interpretation only.

Like e. g. truth-zone.net/forum/government-and-authority/63393-what-is-hasbara.html?start=740#240122
and truth-zone.net/forum/the-lounge/63610-rabulism-search-for-information.html#232958

:)
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
Last Edit: 22 Dec 2016 16:48 by PFIZIPFEI.
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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 16:47 #31

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PFIZIPFEI wrote:
GMP wrote:
(...) shouting abuse at each other.
That tends not to happen here ( Pfiz excepted).

"Abuse" according to your typical exclusive prerogative of interpretation only.

Like e. g. truth-zone.net/forum/government-and-authority/63393-what-is-hasbara.html?start=740#240122
and truth-zone.net/forum/the-lounge/63610-rabulism-search-for-information.html#232958

:)

Santa only comes to good girls and boys Pfizipie.
;)
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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 16:48 #32

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Gaia wrote:
Everything you say is true until and except your last sentence. And that's the whole point; there is no law against supporting Nazism. There is a law that says "one cannot downgrade the 6 million", laws against "glorifying the holocaust" and "discrimination laws" but they are useless in what you and Pfizi claim. And on top of that, yes, convictions are publicised. You may have to dig them up in ofline archives, which is a lot of work, but it's not kept secret why people are convicted. Luckily we don't live in North Korea.

There is a law against supporting 'Nazism'. StgB (Strafgesetzbuch) § 130. I now try a translation of the important passage :emb: :

"With imprisonment up to three years or money penalty will be punished, who openly or in a meeting the public peace disturbes, in a manner which is suitable to disturb the dignity of the victims, by approving, glorifying or justifying the nationalsocialistic tyranny and arbitrariness."

Here the original text in german:

"Mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe wird bestraft, wer öffentlich oder in einer Versammlung den öffentlichen Frieden in einer die Würde der Opfer verletzenden Weise dadurch stört, dass er die nationalsozialistische Gewalt- und Willkürherrschaft billigt, verherrlicht oder rechtfertigt."
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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 16:48 #33

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GMP wrote:
Santa only comes to good girls and boys Pfizipie.
;)


.... on the other hand you used the term "nazi" at least once in about 220 posts:

truth-zone.net/forum/search.html?query=nazi&searchuser=GMP&searchdate=all&childforums=1&limit=20

:)
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
Last Edit: 22 Dec 2016 16:50 by PFIZIPFEI.
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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 16:51 #34

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PFIZIPFEI wrote:
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]



STOP trying to suck my energy, gaia. I couldn't care less what you believe or don't.

Your claim is "people get jailed for being proNazi". When asked for evidence to back up your claim, you not only admit you don't have it, you're saying there IS no evidence. So if there are no "list of incarcenations", then how can you make your claim in the first place?

There are no lists and hardly any msm publications on imprisoned dissidents, but you can definitely be jailed for publicliy stating
what Verrottet falsely claimed to not be punishable,
§ 130 truth-zone.net/forum/pfizipfei-forum-general-discussion/66286-frg-criminal-code-section-130-revised-extended-1-1-16-nwo.html
this is the only way for the system to suppress free speech, otherwise legions of people might say it publicly.

:)
Thanks for the link.

This "law" is worded so vague and broad, that it is impossible to maintain and that's why it isn't.

Under this law, Pegida wouldn't be possible. They oppose a religious group (muslims) which would be punishable under (1). It even goes so far that the rare outbursts of dropping the mask by the Elites would be punishable; "Europe has to become a multicultural, multiracial cesspool" is inciting hatred against others. Neonazis have marched through German cities, just when I started living in Germany that happened in the city where I lived. Under this law, that would be impossible.

Hell, following the letter of this "law", even glorifying Autobahne would be punishable. Or driving a Volkswagen, for that matter.

There have been many ex-Nazis in the West German governments, and they were allowed to be there as they were "denazified" by court. But they had to come clean, which also would be punishable under this law.

And yes, lists of convictions and why do exist. They are in Germany maybe not published online (like in the US), but that doesn't mean they don't exist. It is the law to publish them.

You're painting a world where people "just get jailed for nothing and nobody knows why", which is demonstrably incorrect.
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"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 16:54 #35

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Thank you very much, Steven.

The full text in English can be found with the link I posted already twice in my latest comments on this page.

Section 130

Incitement to hatred


(1) Whosoever, in a manner capable of disturbing the public peace

1. incites hatred against a national, racial, religious group or a group defined by their ethnic origins, against segments of the population or individuals because of their belonging to one of the aforementioned groups or segments of the population or calls for violent or arbitrary measures against them; or

2. assaults the human dignity of others by insulting, maliciously maligning an aforementioined group, segments of the population or individuals because of their belonging to one of the aforementioned groups or segments of the population, or defaming segments of the population,

shall be liable to imprisonment from three months to five years.

(2) Whosoever

1. with respect to written materials (section 11(3)) which incite hatred against an aforementioned group, segments of the population or individuals because of their belonging to one of the aforementioned groups or segments of the population which call for violent or arbitrary measures against them, or which assault their human dignity by insulting, maliciously maligning or defaming them,

(a) disseminates such written materials;

(b) publicly displays, posts, presents, or otherwise makes them accessible;

(c) offers, supplies or makes them accessible to a person under eighteen years; or

(d) produces, obtains, supplies, stocks, offers, announces, commends, undertakes to import or export them, in order to use them or copies obtained from them within the meaning of Nos (a) to (c) or facilitate such use by another; or

2. disseminates a presentation of the content indicated in No 1 above by radio, media services, or telecommunication services

shall be liable to imprisonment not exceeding three years or a fine.

(3) Whosoever publicly or in a meeting approves of, denies or downplays an act committed under the rule of National Socialism of the kind indicated in section 6 (1) of the Code of International Criminal Law, in a manner capable of disturbing the public peace shall be liable to imprisonment not exceeding five years or a fine.

(4) Whosoever publicly or in a meeting disturbs the public peace in a manner that violates the dignity of the victims by approving of, glorifying, or justifying National Socialist rule of arbitrary force shall be liable to imprisonment not exceeding three years or a fine.

(5) Subsection (2) above shall also apply to written materials (section 11(3)) of a content such as is indicated in subsections (3) and (4) above.

(6) In cases under subsection (2) above, also in conjunction with subsection (5) above, and in cases of subsections (3) and (4) above, section 86(3) shall apply mutatis mutandis.

table of contents

Section 130a
Attempting to cause the commission of offences by means of publication

(1) Whosoever disseminates, publicly displays, posts, presents, or otherwise makes accessible written material (section 11(3)) capable of serving as an instruction for an unlawful act named in section 126(1) and intended by its content to encourage or cause others to commit such an act, shall be liable to imprisonment not exceeding three years or a fine.

(2) Whosoever

1. disseminates, publicly displays, posts, presents, or otherwise makes accessible written material (section 11(3)) capable of serving as an instruction for an unlawful act named in section 126(1); or

2. gives instructions for an unlawful act named in section 126(1) publicly or in a meeting,

in order to encourage or cause others to commit such an act, shall incur the same penalty.

(3) Section 86(3) shall apply mutatis mutandis.

table of contents
www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#p1241
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
Last Edit: 22 Dec 2016 16:57 by PFIZIPFEI.
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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 17:00 #36

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Steven wrote:
Gaia wrote:
Everything you say is true until and except your last sentence. And that's the whole point; there is no law against supporting Nazism. There is a law that says "one cannot downgrade the 6 million", laws against "glorifying the holocaust" and "discrimination laws" but they are useless in what you and Pfizi claim. And on top of that, yes, convictions are publicised. You may have to dig them up in ofline archives, which is a lot of work, but it's not kept secret why people are convicted. Luckily we don't live in North Korea.

There is a law against supporting 'Nazism'. StgB (Strafgesetzbuch) § 130. I now try a translation of the important passage :emb: :

"With imprisonment up to three years or money penalty will be punished, who openly or in a meeting the public peace disturbes, in a manner which is suitable to disturb the dignity of the victims, by approving, glorifying or justifying the nationalsocialistic tyranny and arbitrariness."

Here the original text in german:

"Mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe wird bestraft, wer öffentlich oder in einer Versammlung den öffentlichen Frieden in einer die Würde der Opfer verletzenden Weise dadurch stört, dass er die nationalsozialistische Gewalt- und Willkürherrschaft billigt, verherrlicht oder rechtfertigt."

Thanks for that.

This is the key sentence:

"Gewalt- und Willkürherrschaft billigt, verherrlicht oder rechtfertigt."

So if one does not justifies, glorifies or approves the VIOLENCE and ARBITRARY parts, there is no problem. Even following this law.

And that it isn't a problem (and just used as a schtick) is clear; Neonazis have been in Germany for decades. They were allowed to march through the streets, there even exists the NPD, doesn't it?

It is fearmongering. That's also why they publish the """news""" about Haverbeck and Irving for example. I don't believe those people spent one day in jail, it's just to scare the gullible sheeple into believing that you get imprisoned for questioning the Holocaust Story.

The MO of the Elites has been like this forever; they are peacocks, not all-wise and omnipotent.

If I wouldn't have better things to do with my life, and my active German would be better, I would volunteer to take the test in court. The opponents in a courtroom would be of the level of our Rat, with his "the Holocaust """Deniers""" trait topic". Would be a cool test to see if the Elites are capable of pushing their point so much that they have to come up with the impossible physics and chemistry and thermodynamics of their stories.

A bit like Rudolf, but then digging deeper.

I bet they settle the case, as they know they would lose it.
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A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 17:03 #37

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PFIZIPFEI wrote:

(4) Whosoever publicly or in a meeting disturbs the public peace in a manner that violates the dignity of the victims by approving of, glorifying, or justifying National Socialist rule of arbitrary force shall be liable to imprisonment not exceeding three years or a fine.

Now, I have to thank you Pfizipfei :) That translation is way better than mine... :emb: :facepalm: :wissl:
Last Edit: 22 Dec 2016 17:08 by Steven. Reason: changed one charakter
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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 17:06 #38

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We have hate crime legislation here in England and there is a law against wearing 'political uniforms'.
Nothing specific though against promoting NS.
We're maybe a tad more pragmatic insofar that all the NS booster type far right groups here are socks of the security services.
MI5 knows exactly who is a member and whatever they get up to.
Surveillance and control being far cheaper and much more effective than imprisonment.
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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 17:07 #39

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Of course this is not "my" translation ;) and yours was perfect, I only felt sorry that you made the effort
for those who just did not care to click on the link and read, because they are not here to improve their
knowledge, they know already everything and much better than any of those who are subjected to "denial
laws".
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

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The TZ ''National Socialist'' Agenda 22 Dec 2016 17:08 #40

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GMP wrote:
Surveillance and control being far cheaper and much more effective than imprisonment.

Fearmongering peacocking propaganda is even way cheaper.

That's why that is the MO.
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