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TOPIC: Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up!

Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 09 Feb 2019 11:40 #21

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iamawaveofthesea, you don't get it do you?

Capitalism means that an owner or shareholders own a business, they employ workers and pay them about 20% of their labour value, the workers labour also pays for the supplies and upkeep, the profits of their labour go to the shareholders, people that may have never even set a foot in the work bases/corporations, they're living off other people's labour, that is a Capitalist paradigm, that's the way that it is and always has been in The West.

Marxism is the idea of the workers owning the business where they work and they don't really need to work beyond the organisation cutting even, they don't make a profit. As it stands with mechanised production we could all be working only 15-20hpw for the same wages we get now but instead a few multi-millionaires billionaires are hoarding all the profits away and we're simply producing more and more and consuming more and more to keep their ships afloat.

Corporatocracy is a large business or a large group of businesses that act as a single entity in law, they're not Communist, they operate with the Capitalist system.

Anyway, no matter how you want to look at that, Theresa May isn't a Marxist which was the point that you were responding to with your gymnastics to try and make her one, for some mad reason you have. :dunno:
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Last Edit: 09 Feb 2019 11:44 by Frothy.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 09 Feb 2019 12:02 #22

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marxism is to pursuade you to relinquish your right to transact with other human beings so that the elites can justify imposing their all controlling technocratic system

No it isn't, it's quite the opposite to that. in fact Taylorism/Fordism would do that, where you just stand there doing the same repetitive task all day, so production is fast paced as you don't move from your work station. Marxism is more about valuing the workers and getting them as much as they can to be involved in all aspects of the business where they work.

You're a bit like Rocco, you take everything that you think is a bit shitty and replace the word shitty with the word Marxism. or you simply misrepresent what it is.

Did you know that in the US in the 1950's there was 90% tax for the higher ups to pay, and they paid it, in those days being a multimillionaire/billionaire in the US was far rarer, what's happening now is the elites are getting richer and richer and the people at the bottom are having their labour stolen for that to occur, they're simply hoarding cash, keeping it all tucked away and out of reach, if that money was released everyone would have a better quality of life, there would be less crime, less migration, less social unrest.

What those elites have done is taken full advantage of the Capitalist system, in the end if it keeps going as it is, we'll all be working like hell for scraps because they'll have all the wealth.

The only way to get the money back from them, is to high tax them, they've legally stolen that money, in other words the system has permitted it,.

There's two choices either let them carry on bleeding off of everyone else's labour, or tax the money back off them, slow down manufacture, slow down consumership, stop chasing profits, give everyone a good wage for what they do, and have more happiness.

My choice would be the latter.
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Last Edit: 09 Feb 2019 12:04 by Frothy.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 09 Feb 2019 12:20 #23

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iamawaveofthesea
If they talk about taxation then we have to ask how they intend to tax the billionaires when the billionaires keep their money offshore. You cannot have a discussion about taxation without speaking about how you intend to end the tax havens

Well it's something that people will have to agree to internationally. What's needed is a complete paradigm change and to make such an activity a breach on international law, just like drug smuggling/people trafficking etc etc...

...what they've been doing is technically stealing money from other people by contracting them in to a situation where they're giving about 80% of their labour for free, the Capitalist system permits that.

So one could go to work and sell goods at £500 profit but only be paid £100, so someone else is getting the £400 for free, it is theft but people simply don't perceive it because they're blinded by the system, what Marx tried to do was to make people aware of that, but he failed, because it doesn't seem like many folk know that yet, and it seems like you need me to tell you.

Completely slagging off Karl Marx at every turn is just hiding what he tried to highlight, what these multimillionaires and billionaires want is Marx to be a baddy,
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Last Edit: 09 Feb 2019 12:26 by Frothy.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 09 Feb 2019 13:02 #24

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Frothy wrote:
You can't fix stupid
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 09 Feb 2019 13:19 #25

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iamawaveofthesea wrote:
Frothy wrote:
May isn't a secret Marxist, in the West we're living in a Capitalist society as we have since as far as anyone can remember.

Before that it was called feudalism, there aren't any Marxists around in that respect, George Soros isn't a Marxist, he's a Capitalist hoarder, we're in a paradigm of profiteering, the people behind corporations and big business aren't Marxists, they're Capitalists.

Rocco doesn't know what a Marxist is, he thinks Theresa May is a Marxist.

There's nothing wrong with a bit of Capitalism but all these billionaires hoarding the rewards of others people's labour has to go, that's the paradigm that we live in, Rocco shills for it.

you just don't get it do you?

capitalism is at its core simply the belief that you as an individual have the right to trade with other individuals

the elites don't want that

they want to control EVERY transaction

marxism is to pursuade you to relinquish your right to transact with other human beings so that the elites can justify imposing their all controlling technocratic system

the elites are not capitalists. If they were capitalists then they would not have bailed out the banks. They are MONOPOLISTS. They monopolise capitalism by creating 'too big to fails' and by taking over control of the money supply and by capturing government so that they can create tax and beaurocratic environments that are favourable to their corporations

They build those corporate empires because they do not want to share power

The technocracy which is being built by the corporations and politically championed by the new left is simply the end game of their monopolistic impulses

if they talk about taxation then we have to ask how they intend to tax the billionaires when the billionaires keep their money offshore. You cannot have a discussion about taxation without speaking about how you intend to end the tax havens


otherwise the people that the tax burden will on is the middle class who the oligarchs see as a threat

The billionaire oligarchs and their many wealthy lackies are currently allowed to hide their wealth overseas, as you stated in your post.

It´s all about the Corporation of the City of London, a State within a State, but the MSM won´t talk about it on prime time TV an rarely mention the
controlling power in the media.

"As Nicholas Shaxson explains in his fascinating book Treasure Islands, the Corporation exists outside many of the laws and democratic controls which govern the rest of the United Kingdom. The City of London is the only part of Britain over which parliament has no authority.

In one respect at least the Corporation acts as the superior body: it imposes on the House of Commons a figure called the remembrancer: an official lobbyist who sits behind the Speaker's chair and ensures that, whatever our elected representatives might think, the City's rights and privileges are protected. The mayor of London's mandate stops at the boundaries of the Square Mile. There are, as if in a novel by China Miéville, two cities, one of which must unsee the other.

Several governments have tried to democratise the City of London but all, threatened by its financial might, have failed.

As Clement Attlee lamented, "over and over again we have seen that there is in this country another power than that which has its seat at Westminster."

The City has exploited this remarkable position to establish itself as a kind of offshore state, a secrecy jurisdiction which controls the network of tax havens housed in the UK's crown dependencies and overseas territories.

This autonomous state within our borders is in a position to launder the ill-gotten cash of oligarchs, kleptocrats, gangsters and drug barons. As the French investigating magistrate Eva Joly remarked, it "has never transmitted even the smallest piece of usable evidence to a foreign magistrate". It deprives the United Kingdom and other nations of their rightful tax receipts.

It has also made the effective regulation of global finance almost impossible. Shaxson shows how the absence of proper regulation in London allowed American banks to evade the rules set by their own government. AIG's wild trading might have taken place in the US, but the unit responsible was regulated in the City. Lehman Brothers couldn't get legal approval for its off-balance sheet transactions in Wall Street, so it used a London law firm instead. No wonder priests are resigning over the plans to evict the campers. The Church of England is not just working with Mammon; it's colluding with Babylon."

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/oct/31/corporation-london-city-medieval

Even Noel Edmonds the former DJ (who I don´t really like) has a grasp on the matter.

“The simple step of a courageous individual is not to take part in the lie." Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn
Last Edit: 09 Feb 2019 13:27 by Roastie.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 09 Feb 2019 13:28 #26

Frothy wrote:
iamawaveofthesea, you don't get it do you?

Capitalism means that an owner or shareholders own a business, they employ workers and pay them about 20% of their labour value, the workers labour also pays for the supplies and upkeep, the profits of their labour go to the shareholders, people that may have never even set a foot in the work bases/corporations, they're living off other people's labour, that is a Capitalist paradigm, that's the way that it is and always has been in The West.

Marxism is the idea of the workers owning the business where they work and they don't really need to work beyond the organisation cutting even, they don't make a profit. As it stands with mechanised production we could all be working only 15-20hpw for the same wages we get now but instead a few multi-millionaires billionaires are hoarding all the profits away and we're simply producing more and more and consuming more and more to keep their ships afloat.

Corporatocracy is a large business or a large group of businesses that act as a single entity in law, they're not Communist, they operate with the Capitalist system.

Anyway, no matter how you want to look at that, Theresa May isn't a Marxist which was the point that you were responding to with your gymnastics to try and make her one, for some mad reason you have. :dunno:

no that's not correct. Capitalism did not start with the shareholder corporation. the elites created that model. Arguably the knights templar were the first trans-national corporation

The elites then passed laws for example to create 'corporate personhood'. The elites have subverted capitalism. There are anti-trust racketerring laws that could be used to break up the too big to fail corporation just as they had been in the past to break up standard oil but they are not used

Why are they not used?

because the elites have captured government

Concerning marxism being about the workers owning the means of production that is not what will happen. What will happen is that the oligarchs will own the means of production and they will use the state apparatus to enforce their will on the workers

I don't personally believe that marx ever intended for the workers to own the means of production. If you dig beneath the surface you'll find the freemasons behind both communism AND zionism. They control both these left and right extremes and they play both ends against the middle

Concerning the corporatocracy you are failing to realise that the corporations are just a vehicle. The corporatocracy is not the end in itself. It is the means to the end. The end is the TECHNOCRACY which the corporations are building

can you not see the corporations building all this tech? yes you can. So face reality
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 09 Feb 2019 13:32 #27

Frothy wrote:
iamawaveofthesea
If they talk about taxation then we have to ask how they intend to tax the billionaires when the billionaires keep their money offshore. You cannot have a discussion about taxation without speaking about how you intend to end the tax havens

Well it's something that people will have to agree to internationally. What's needed is a complete paradigm change and to make such an activity a breach on international law, just like drug smuggling/people trafficking etc etc...

...what they've been doing is technically stealing money from other people by contracting them in to a situation where they're giving about 80% of their labour for free, the Capitalist system permits that.

So one could go to work and sell goods at £500 profit but only be paid £100, so someone else is getting the £400 for free, it is theft but people simply don't perceive it because they're blinded by the system, what Marx tried to do was to make people aware of that, but he failed, because it doesn't seem like many folk know that yet, and it seems like you need me to tell you.

Completely slagging off Karl Marx at every turn is just hiding what he tried to highlight, what these multimillionaires and billionaires want is Marx to be a baddy,

no what marx did was hijack an already existing struggle

its a struggle that european people have been in against the fuedal elites for centuries

what marx did was set up the left wing of the dialectic which today is manifesting as identity politics, cultural marxist social engineering and the push for the technocracy

they play both wings. So they'll push corporate power so that they can grab the wealth and then they'll push state power so that they can build their technocracy. ultimately they are going to merge the two

with the taxation thing roastie is absolutely right. the city of london square mile banking district is the centre of a global tax haven network that allows the super rich to keep their wealth offshore. How are you going to get around that problem?
Last Edit: 09 Feb 2019 13:38 by iamawaveofthesea.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 09 Feb 2019 13:36 #28

Frothy wrote:
No it isn't, it's quite the opposite to that. in fact Taylorism/Fordism would do that, where you just stand there doing the same repetitive task all day, so production is fast paced as you don't move from your work station. Marxism is more about valuing the workers and getting them as much as they can to be involved in all aspects of the business where they work.

You're a bit like Rocco, you take everything that you think is a bit shitty and replace the word shitty with the word Marxism. or you simply misrepresent what it is.

Did you know that in the US in the 1950's there was 90% tax for the higher ups to pay, and they paid it, in those days being a multimillionaire/billionaire in the US was far rarer, what's happening now is the elites are getting richer and richer and the people at the bottom are having their labour stolen for that to occur, they're simply hoarding cash, keeping it all tucked away and out of reach, if that money was released everyone would have a better quality of life, there would be less crime, less migration, less social unrest.

What those elites have done is taken full advantage of the Capitalist system, in the end if it keeps going as it is, we'll all be working like hell for scraps because they'll have all the wealth.

The only way to get the money back from them, is to high tax them, they've legally stolen that money, in other words the system has permitted it,.

There's two choices either let them carry on bleeding off of everyone else's labour, or tax the money back off them, slow down manufacture, slow down consumership, stop chasing profits, give everyone a good wage for what they do, and have more happiness.

My choice would be the latter.

all you have to do is listen to what the marxists are calling for today:

-green regime SMART technocracy built and run by the corporations
-destruction of physical cash and replacement with digital cash (rothschilds and rockefellers have both moved into cryptos)
-universal basic income to pay to workers who are going to lose their jobs to automation
-open borders to destroy any societal cohesion
-24 hour surveillance state

They are not calling for decentralised power, they are not calling for individual rights, they are not calling for privacy

They are calling for the bulldosing of individual rights and privacy and a centralisation of power in the hands of the corporations that are building the technocracy

This was the REAL agenda of the marxist co-opt of the workers struggle
Last Edit: 09 Feb 2019 13:36 by iamawaveofthesea.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 09 Feb 2019 18:09 #29

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Vancity Eagle wrote:
What you "brexiters" just dont seem to understand is that this issue is far more nuanced than you are making it. Yes the EU is bad and an elitist configuration. THat isn't the issue.
The issue is, what exactly is going to replace the EU.

No problem, Britain did quite well without the EU for many years, then we were forced into joining it by our useless politicians, but after a while we Brexiteers saw it was krap, so we voted in the referendum to get out, we don't need no friggin EU..:)
But May is a Remainer and is dragging her feet in getting us out and has therefore completely lost credibility and is all washed up politically.
Below- a typical EU big shot goon, Herman van Rompuy of Belgium-


Last Edit: 09 Feb 2019 18:10 by Ugh.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 09 Feb 2019 18:13 #30

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the rightwing propagandists always misrepresent definitions

they want you to believe that its not capitalism if it isn't "free markets"

that is a lie because "free market" capitalism is simply the most laissez faire form of capitalism.

All capitalism means is : PRIVATE CONTROL OF WEALTH AND DISTRIBUTION

Even Venezuela is not a socialist country, despite the MSM calling it such. You have private companies in Venezuela, private media (many of which are anti-Maduro) and you have a billionaire class. So Venezuela is a form of capitalism with some socialist elements.

Capitalism ultimately leads to a consolodation of wealth into fewer and fewer hands, especially when "free markets" are promoted.

Iamwave always talks about centralization of power when it comes to governments, but more importantly is centralization of power, when it comes to wealth and money.

"Free markets" leads to the centralized control of money into fewer and fewer hands, whereby they can buy off and influence governments.

Stepping towards socialism is the only logical option, it isn't a magic solution, but it is never the less the only direction we can head towards especailly with the comming automation. The elites through their propaganda have brainwashed people like Rocco and Iamwave to destest the very thing that will lead to their improved quality of life. It is very annoying.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 09 Feb 2019 18:30 #31

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Vancity Eagle wrote:
Stepping towards socialism is the only logical option..

Why?
After all, we're currently well-fed, well-housed, well off financially and live comfortable lifestyles, so if it ain't broke, there's nothing to fix
..:)



If the food shelves ever become empty, that'll be the time to start worrying-
Last Edit: 09 Feb 2019 18:31 by Ugh.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 09 Feb 2019 18:46 #32

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iamawaveofthesea wrote:
Frothy wrote:
.

all you have to do is listen to what the marxists are calling for today:

there aren't any marxists in power, so "they" aren't calling for anything. Th e"marxist" thing is really getting old. You cannot just call whoever or whatever you dont like "marxist" and think that it will stick. Well when dealing with right wing dupes, you can sell them oceanside property in Idaho. But to anybody who is actually educated your propaganda is garbage. There are no "marxists"

Progressives maybe, but "marxists" No. "Progressives" are still capitalists. "Conservatives" are super capitalists. You guys keep trying to blurr the difference between economics and culture, because that is exactly what the elites want. They want us focused on "culture war" issues so we ignore the economic issues where they are raping us all blind. When you refer to "marxists" what you really mean are "progressives"

Again a "progressive" is a capitalist with "progressive" social values. They are NOT "marxists"

The fact you are trying to misconstrue this entire subject shows either your complete ignorance, or your intention to decieve.

so if you say "progressives" are pushing these things, lets see how this stacks up with the facts.
-green regime SMART technocracy built and run by the corporations

I would say you are right with this, they are pushing "green new deal" Are you suggesting that we dont try to get technology to work for the benefit of mankind ? I have reservations about this "green new deal" I think they should just be calling for a "new deal" period whether green or not, however I dont think it is wrong to try and access new and cleaner forms of energy. I am not convinced this "smart technocracy" has anything to do with this. It may or may not.
-destruction of physical cash and replacement with digital cash (rothschilds and rockefellers have both moved into cryptos)

this isn't a "progressive" thing. Its simply the monied class.
-universal basic income to pay to workers who are going to lose their jobs to automation

so what is your solution ? Have people starve to death ?
-open borders to destroy any societal cohesion

This is simply a lie. "Progressives" are not calling for "open borders" That is simply your right wing strawman. Same way you falsely claim "progressives" are calling to "confiscate all guns" Another right wing strawman. Open borders meaning there is no border security and that ANYBODY can just come into your country. Nobody is calling for that.
-24 hour surveillance state

Sorry "progressives" are not pushing this. If anything it is the right wing that is pushing the police state with their "war on terror" "war on immigrants" "war on drugs" and obsession with "borders" which will only help to increase surveillance, security.
They are not calling for decentralised power, they are not calling for individual rights, they are not calling for privacy

Yes they are. They are calling for decentralised power of MONEY. The worst form of centralization. They are calling to actually implement voting rights which the Republicans are suppressing, they are calling for rights of workers, and the sick, while Republicans are just calling for some mythical idea of "freedom" which doesn't actually stand for anything.
They are calling for the bulldosing of individual rights and privacy and a centralisation of power in the hands of the corporations that are building the technocracy

that is exactly what the right wingers are doing by supporting presidents who enhance the wealth gap through tax cuts, austerity cuts, destroying rights to health care, rights to vote, rights to protest.
This was the REAL agenda of the marxist co-opt of the workers struggle

Marxists haven't co-opted anythig. They dont exist in any large numbers and have no political power. Progressive capitalists have co-opted workers movements, that is what you are describing, but at least half of the things you are attributing to them are simply false.
Last Edit: 09 Feb 2019 18:46 by Vancity Eagle.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 10 Feb 2019 03:35 #33

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You can't fix stupid
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 10 Feb 2019 13:02 #34

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The core principle of Marxism is to stop the shareholders getting free money off of the labour of the workforce at about 80%, it's legalised theft permitted by the present system.

Rocco and iamwaveofthesea are shilling for that Capitalist system to continue, it;s why they blame degeneracy onto Marxism, drug taking, crime, what they see as bad social concepts such as LGBT, etc etc...things that Marx didn't even submit opinion on. Rocco says he's doesn't want other people telling him what to do but he wants to tell other people what to do, and to stop them doing what they want with their sexual preferences, between consenting adults, he's a totalitarian, he won't tolerate anything he want's an Orwellian state where everyone is watched and controlled. He's a truly twisted little man and a shill for the elites and the system, he loooooves, the present paradigm and will defend it at all cost.

In fact drug abuse is a result of drug dealing, which is a result of profiteering, which is a result of Capitalism.

Mechanised manufacture could have been used to have increased the standard of living for everyone, but what's happened is that the richest of the 1% have simply use it to increase production, so they've also increased consumership to keep their Capitalist boats afloat at the expense of the work force who still only receive about 20% of their labour value.

What's going to happen when artificial intelligence is placed into the labour environment on a widespread scale is a further increase of production and a further expansion of the socioeconomic division, the billionaires will be trillionaires, the work force will likely go part time and be paid peanuts, the price of goods will decrease so that they can afford to keep the Capitalist ship afloat for them.

In other words the elite of the 1% require the mass to purchase they're products, they control the governments, the control Socialism, the control Capitalists, there's probably nothing anyone can do about that, but unlike Rocco et al, I shan't be cheering them along. The president of the US will never be a Socialist because the means to fund an election campaign will never result from being a Socialist, Socialists or Marxists have been priced out of US politics. Unless they can be funded by the trade unions which is most unlikely, so unless you're a Capitalist you have no money to run for Office.

Every time they slag off Karl Marx they're giving a pat on the back to the billionaires who have hoarded away the proceeds of other people's labour.

Big business is driven by Capitalism as is it's decisions to go mechanised or use artificial intelligence to increase production efficiency, it's got nothing to do with Karl Marx, he's been dead for nearly 150 years, just as the drug market, seedy pop videos, and the rest of the stuff that these system shills try to pin on him.

The billionaires and their shills need to constantly discredit Marx at all costs, he's the No1 enemy of the fat cats, it's why they spin all this shit around, they can't bear the idea of having to return their booties.to those who they took it from.
Once a hyena always a hyena.
Last Edit: 10 Feb 2019 13:30 by Frothy.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 10 Feb 2019 13:18 #35

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Rocco wrote:
It's not a case of being equally rich or poor, it's a case of narrowing the gap and not exploiting people for their labour and having a few hoarding billions of $$$ whilst other people are working long hours seven days per week, for peanuts but whilst they do they are further riching the rich.

I know taxation can be seen as theft but so too can this shareholders 80% freeloading/hoarding.

All that needs to happen is to have a very high tax on the billionaires so the hoardings are released, eight people have got more money between them than the poorest 64% of people in the world combined.

And you're shilling for that to continue, deary me, you're one twisted cookie.

Rocco likes to see lots of poor people struggling to have any sort of quality of life and a few fat cats lapping up all the cream. it gives him something to aspire to.
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Last Edit: 10 Feb 2019 13:22 by Frothy.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 10 Feb 2019 13:46 #36

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At some point the present system will crash when the rich have all the money and the poor have nothing to spend, at the moment their trickling down small offerings to keep the system afloat, but as their hoards of cash increase everyone else's quality of life will decrease to the point where law and order will break down.

What's going to happen is that the lower working class will expand in number, there won't be any work for them, but the rich will be running mechanised artificial intelligence supported business, but there won't be enough money around to consume production, so they'll then slow down production to meet the needs of those who can afford to consume it, the rest of us will have to rely on either begging or crime.

It's why they have agenda 21, they'll need to get rid of a lot of us when this happens, that's the end game of Capitalism, refine the elites and fuck everyone else.
Once a hyena always a hyena.
Last Edit: 10 Feb 2019 13:49 by Frothy.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 10 Feb 2019 15:35 #37

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Frothy wrote:
At some point the present system will crash when the rich have all the money and the poor have nothing to spend, at the moment their trickling down small offerings to keep the system afloat, but as their hoards of cash increase everyone else's quality of life will decrease to the point where law and order will break down.
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This is why you see some of the elites get behind more progressive ideas, and why they got behind social democracies, workers rights, and things like the welfare state. They understand without these things there will be chaos and disorder and society will break down.

What is the point of having all this money if society has completely collapsed.

FDR famously said he created the new deal economic policies to "save capitalism". That is exactly what he did.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 10 Feb 2019 16:20 #38

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Frothy wrote:
......Blah Blah .Blah Muh Free Stuff Blah .Blah .Wealth Redistribution Blah .Blah .Blah .....
You can't fix stupid
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 10 Feb 2019 17:11 #39

Vancity Eagle wrote:
Iamwave always talks about centralization of power when it comes to governments, but more importantly is centralization of power, when it comes to wealth and money.

Here's how i see it...

So if you have a rainwater capture technology in your own backyard then you can take rainwater which nature gives you and you can convert it into drinking water. By doing that you are not dependent on the corporations for giving you that water

If the corporations are controlling the water utilities they can charge you whatever they like for the water. But if you have your own rainwater capture then you can stick two fingers up to the corporations because they have no power over you. You have your own water and you don't need theirs

In bolivia the corporation bechtel bribed (and probably threatened) the bolivian government into privatising their water and then they bought up the utlity. They then started charging bolivian people for their water and they hiked the prices to maximise profits. The bolivian people responded by capturing their own rainwater and using that for free. So bechtel then got the government to pass laws to make it illegal to capture your own rainwater! The bolivian people rose up in protest and managed to overturn bechtels ownership of the water

This is such a perfect example of what the corporations want to do. They want to control EVERYTHING and for everyone to be dependent on them for everything. If you are dependent on others for everything and cannot be critical of them then you are a slave

To achieve this the corporations need government. If government did not exist the corporations would have to create it

So that renewable energy can be great as it can be used by individuals to make them self-sufficient and free from control or it can be terrible because it can be controlled monopolistically by the corporations and then people become enslaved to them

So with cortez's 'green revolution' she is trying to get people to be dependent on technology controlled by the corporations. At the same time some democrats are calling for a social credit score like the one in china. So picture a future world where you are dependent on the corporations for all your energy needs as you are not allowed to produce your own energy. Also you are not able to criticise the corporations because if your social credit score drops too low then they can simply cut off your energy

That is total control. It turns workers into nothing more than slaves on a plantation
Vancity Eagle wrote:
"Free markets" leads to the centralized control of money into fewer and fewer hands, whereby they can buy off and influence governments.

well i'm going to play devils advocate here because i never really saw myself as an anarchist capitalist, i always saw myself more as an anarchist socialist but if there are 'free markets' such as you describe the idea would be that there wouldn't be any government or that government would only be there to perform the task of enforcing contracts between people

If that were the only function of government then not much can be achieved by influencing it. The more powers governments have though the more reasons there are for influencing government
Vancity Eagle wrote:
Stepping towards socialism is the only logical option, it isn't a magic solution, but it is never the less the only direction we can head towards especailly with the comming automation. The elites through their propaganda have brainwashed people like Rocco and Iamwave to destest the very thing that will lead to their improved quality of life. It is very annoying.

no stepping towards a situation where you have your own solar panels is the solution

But if the cabal (in the guise of the technocracy of tomorrow or the corporatocracy of today) have the solar panels and you are dependent on them for your energy then you are their slave

This is why i call those people the 'fake-left' because what they are working towards is a future where the workers are utterly enslaved
Last Edit: 10 Feb 2019 18:03 by iamawaveofthesea.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 10 Feb 2019 17:13 #40

Frothy wrote:
At some point the present system will crash when the rich have all the money and the poor have nothing to spend, at the moment their trickling down small offerings to keep the system afloat, but as their hoards of cash increase everyone else's quality of life will decrease to the point where law and order will break down.

What's going to happen is that the lower working class will expand in number, there won't be any work for them, but the rich will be running mechanised artificial intelligence supported business, but there won't be enough money around to consume production, so they'll then slow down production to meet the needs of those who can afford to consume it, the rest of us will have to rely on either begging or crime.

It's why they have agenda 21, they'll need to get rid of a lot of us when this happens, that's the end game of Capitalism, refine the elites and fuck everyone else.

they are going to murder you with 5G. More and more people will develop dementia and they will legalise assisted dying. They will create 'death panels' to choose who gets medical treatment and who doesn't (no doubt money will be able to buy treatment)

many people will feel a deep sense of malaise as they lose their jobs to automation and those people will increasingly immerse themselves in virtual reality to be able to feel something. While they are doing that the 5G and other things will kill them. The virtual reality will act as a soperific to calm people as they are led to the slaughter

They don't intend to allow you to stick around
Last Edit: 10 Feb 2019 17:20 by iamawaveofthesea.
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