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TOPIC: Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up!

Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 16:44 #61

''Marx's great book Das kapital is at once a monument of reasoning and a storehouse of facts''
-Lord Milner, member of the British War cabinet, 1917, and director of the London Joint Stock Bank

'Some of the passages [in Milner] on industry and society...are passages which any socialist would be proud to have written. But they are not written by a socialist. They were written by the ''man who made the boer war''. Some of the passages on Imperialism and the white man's burden might have been written by a tory diehard. They were written by the student of Karl Marx''
-Edward Crankshaw

''This society has been known at various times as Milner's Kindergarten, as the Round Table Group, as the Rhodes crowd, as The Times crowd, as the All Souls group, and as the Cliveden set. ... I have chosen to call it the Milner group. Those persons who have used the other terms, or heard them used, have not generally been aware that all these various terms referred to the same Group...this Group is, as I shall show, one of the most important historical facts of the twentieth century.''

''This radical Right fairy tale, which is now an accepted folk myth in many groups in America, pictured the recent history of the United States, in regard to domestic reform and in foreign affairs, as a well-organized plot by extreme Left-wing elements ... This myth, like all fables, does in fact have a modicum of truth. There does exist, and has existed for a generation, an international Anglophile network which operates, to some extent, in the way the Radical right believes the Communists act. In fact, this network, which we may identify as the Round Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists, or any other group, and frequently does so. I know of the operation of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960s, to examine its papers and secret records. I have no aversion to it or to most of its aims and have, for much of my life, been close to it and to many of its instruments. I have objected, both in the past and recently, to a few of its policies... but in general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown, and I believe its role in history is significant enough to be known.''
-Carroll Quigley, 'tragedy and hope'
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 16:48 #62

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Rocco wrote:
I work allover the world but I avoid most contracts in Europe, because in Europe they take 70% out of my paycheck. And it's not the rich oil company shareholders stealing my money. It's Government Taxes

Well I agree that's way too much tax to pay unless you're a multimillionaire, but do you think that the pay you get before it;s taxed is the same value that you give with your labour worth, in other words is anyone else receiving any value from your labour other than yourself before it's taxed?

Would it not be better for you to receive your total labour value, as per any talent or work that you submit, which would then mean that you'd pay less tax because the money would no longer be hoarded away, people would be better off in general and the tax burden better shared.

What it really means is that if everyone was on a decent wage, as per their labour contribution, even the poor would be able to pay more tax, as there wouldn't be any poor per se, the outcome for you is that you'd be paid as per your input at the value that you create with your work, and you'd also pay less tax because more people who would no longer be living on peanuts would be better off and pay tax too, that would relieve the tax burden on you and a lot of other people, except the super rich.
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Last Edit: 12 Feb 2019 16:59 by Frothy.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 16:49 #63

David Rockefellers fabian socialist thesis at the london school of economics:

THEORY: David's Thesis
Monday, Aug. 26, 1940
A sober, freethinking, world-minded citizen is hulking, 24-year-old David Rockefeller, fifth son of John D. Jr. He graduated from Harvard in 1936, went to England to attend the famed, leftish, Rockefeller-supported London School of Economics. Back in New York City he got a job at City Hall as one of Mayor La-Guardia's "interns" in city management, between times took courses at the University of Chicago, worked on a Ph.D. thesis. This week, the university released David's thesis to the public.

Its subject was "Unused Capital Resources and Waste."
content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,764507,00.html

The London School of Economics

The Fabian Society had developed an obsession with economics in the very first months and years of its existence, when its members met regularly to study and discuss Karl Marx and his economic theories. This obsession led to the Fabians' creation of institutions like the British Economic Association (later Royal Economic Society) and, in particular, the London School of Economics (LSE).

The Fabians' strange interest was motivated by two things. First, they could use economic theories as a "scientific" backing for their Socialist ideology just as Marx had done before them. Second, through educational institutions teaching Fabian economics, they consciously sought to create whole generations of professional economists -- a new ruling class -- who, working as civil servants and other government officials, would implement Fabian policies (M. Cole, p. 88).

The first step in this direction was to get economics recognised as a "science." Needless to say, unlike true science, such as Physics, which is based on universally accepted facts from the natural world, economics had more to do with what economists believed about people's financial behaviour. This resulted in conflicting theories clearly showing that economics was not a science and economics remains a system plagued by theoretical conflict to this day.

Unfortunately, Sidney Webb's machinations ensured that the Royal Commission dealing with the matter recognised economics as a science (Webb, p. 195), just in time for the Fabians' LSE to become a faculty of the University of London as part of the latter's reorganisation in 1900. This paved the way for the infiltration and domination of society - for many generations to come - by a system hell-bent on imposing Socialism on the world.

The central feature of Fabian "economics", which Fabianism shares with other Socialist systems, revolved around state control of resources and production: already in their "Manifesto" of 1884 (G.B. Shaw), the Fabians had called for land nationalisation and state control of the industry.

This is an important point which shows that the Fabians' main concern was the acquisition of power, not the welfare of the general public. Indeed, as later conceded by Fabian leaders, the Fabians had no true practical understanding either of existing society or Socialism and, in particular, no knowledge of the "claims and aims of the working people."

In his history of the Fabian Society, Shaw candidly describes the Fabians' lack of sympathy with working-class aspirations (Shaw, 1892; Pease, p. 30). In fact, apart from the obvious objective to grab power, the Fabians had no knowledge of what they were doing or how to go about "reconstructing society" (Pease, p. 27).

Policies related to working hours or wages came to be adopted almost as an afterthought and for the obvious purpose of falsely constructing Fabianism as a movement concerned with working-class interests (Pease, p. 88).
The Beveridge Report (1942)

All this exposes Fabianism as a project that was as fraudulent as the Marxism from which its masterminds had lifted their economic theories. To sugar-coat their calls for state control of the economy, the Fabians called for growing involvement of the State in the welfare of individual citizens, eventually leading to the cradle-to-grave social security programme devised by William Beveridge in his 1942 Report.

Much of the Beveridge Report had in fact been anticipated by work carried out by the Fabian Research Bureau and published in 1943 as "Social Security" under the editorship of William Alexander Robson (M. Cole, p. 298), an LSE alumnus of political science who acted as the Fabians' "expert" and adviser to local government. Moreover, Beveridge's Report was massively promoted by the Fabian Social Security Committee which also launched the Beveridge Social Security League for the purpose.

Beveridge himself was a long-standing collaborator of the Fabian leadership, had served as director of the Fabians' London School of Economics from 1919 to 1937 and was a friend of the Rockefeller family whom he tapped for funds for the LSE (Rockefeller, p. 81).

Although several leading politicians expressed concerns about the financial implications of the policies proposed in the Beveridge Report, it was adopted and implemented by the Attlee Government, laying the foundations for the modern Welfare (or Nanny) State.

(page top)
Keynes, Bretton Woods and the IMF (1944)

The Beveridge Report, of course, went hand in hand with the theories of John Maynard Keynes who, as long-time General-Secretary and later president of the Royal Economic Society, was the official economist of Fabian Socialism.

Though officially a member of the Liberal Party, Keynes was undoubtedly a Fabian (Pugh, p. 158) who had made his way into the Economic Advisory Council to the 1929 Labour Government and soon became an apostle of public deficit spending (which advised governments to spend money they didn't have on public projects).

Unsurprisingly, Keynes was one of the architects of the 1944 Bretton Woods conference that established the World Bank and the IMF, which effectively became instruments for bankrolling World Socialism. He also headed the British delegation to Washington that negotiated the $4.34 billion US loan to Britain in late 1945 and early 1946.

Like the other false prophet of Socialism, Karl Marx, Keynes was an accomplished charlatan as evident from the fact that he used his influence in the Treasury to manipulate prices and amass a fortune for himself by speculating on the stock market. As for his General Theory, it was based on distorted logic and unsubstantiated assumptions (for an eye-opening expose of Keynes and his theories, see Martin, pp. 323-41).

Unfortunately, the Fabian propaganda machine raised Keynes to the position of economic guru of choice to left-wing governments on both sides of the Atlantic, enabling him to export his fraudulent theories to America where they were eagerly embraced by the advocates of Socialism by the backdoor.

[For more on Keynes, fellow Fabian Leonard Woolf, and the decadent Bloomsbury group, see the article "From Clapham to Bloomsbury" --ed]

Back in Britain, the Socialist experiment was failing. By 1950, after five years of Fabian government, it was becoming clear that Socialism was incapable of solving practical problems. The state-owned industry was inefficient and unproductive; management was carried on by a new elite of "experts" unconcerned with workers' interests; state controls were being resented; party conferences raised more problems related to enterprise, taxation and government reform than they solved; popular support was fast draining away and the Fabian leadership was forced to acknowledge a loss of conviction that Socialism was a source of good or would even serve as a means to an end (Pugh, pp. 227-30).

Although the Fabian Labour Party was soundly beaten at the 1951 election, Keynes' international system of finance together with the Marshall Plan and generous loans from left-wing American administrations literally saved British Socialism from sure death and artificially kept it alive to fight another day. This is how mounting government spending, ever-rising taxes, national debt and state control for the sake of permanent "economic growth" and "social progress" have become the curse of Socialist-dominated nations around the world.

modernhistoryproject.org/mhp?Article=FabianSociety&C=7.0
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 17:01 #64

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You can't fix stupid
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 17:02 #65

lets tie marx and the rothschilds into this...

The Fabian Society: the masters of subversion unmasked
by Cassivellaunus, 31 March 2013

Fabianism is a radical London-based movement initiated in the 1880s for the purpose of subverting the existing order and establishing a Socialist World Government controlled by its leaders and by the financial interests associated with them.

London at the time was a centre of liberal capitalism – itself a subversive movement – as well as of radical left-wing agitation which sought to subvert the former. The main radical organisation promoting Socialism in England was the International Working Men’s Association (IWMA, a.k.a. “First International”), established in 1864 by Karl Marx.

Marx’s doctrines were initially only available in German and French, and had little impact on the British public. His disciple Henry Hyndman was the first to popularise the teachings of Marx and other German Socialists in the English language. Hyndman was also the founder in 1881 of the Social Democratic Federation (Laidler, p. 186).

The elements responsible for founding the Fabian Society were themselves influenced by Marxism and belonged to Social Democratic Federation circles. What set the Fabian Society apart from earlier Socialist organisations like the IWMA and SDF was the method by which it sought to attain its objective. While other Socialists talked of revolution, the Fabians resolved to build Socialism gradually and by stealth.

According to one of its leaders, the Fabian Society was “organised for thought and discussion, and not for electoral action which it leaves to other bodies, though it encourages its members, in their individual capacities, to play an active part in the work of these other bodies” (G. D. H., Cole, 1942).

Wolf in sheep’s clothing

The subversive nature of the Fabian project is illustrated by the Fabian Window, a stained-glass composition showing Fabian leaders Edward R. Pease, Sidney Webb and Bernard Shaw (in the green coat) forging a new world out of the old, while other Fabians kneel worshipfully before a stack of Fabian writings.



The window carries the logo: “Remould it [the World] nearer to the heart’s desire,” the last line from a quatrain by the medieval Iranian poet Omar Khayyam which reads: “Dear love, couldst thou and I with fate conspire/To grasp this sorry scheme of things entire,/Would we not shatter it to bits, and then/Remould it nearer to the heart’s desire!” and which expresses the Fabians’ plan to destroy and reconstruct society along Fabian lines.

The Fabian Window was commissioned by Shaw in 1910 and is currently located at the London School of Economics. Though its theme purports to be humorous, the fact is that, as admitted by Bernard Shaw, humour or what he described as “freely laughing at ourselves” was a distinguishing habit of the Fabians (Pease, p. 34). In fact, humour was a tactic used by Fabians to conceal the deadly earnest of their intentions.

Indeed, there is nothing humorous about a semi-secret organisation working to destroy Western civilisation. Moreover, the Fabian Window is undeniably symbolic and as such it is based on fact: despite claims to being “scientific,” Socialism proved to be riddled with internal inconsistencies and contradictions rendering commitment to its tenets a matter of faith rather than reason.

As observed by the economist P. T. Bauer, Socialism turned out to be a kind of faith-based messianic religion that promised salvation on earth (Bauer, p. 176). In the Fabian case, making Socialism (or Fabianism) into a quasi-religious movement was a conscious objective of the Fabian leadership as shown by Shaw’s comments to the effect that the Fabians “must make a religion of Socialism” (Henderson, p. 488). Other Fabian leaders similarly spoke of Socialism as a “new social religion”. Thus, the Fabians’ adulatory attitude towards Fabian writings depicted in the Window accurately portrays the cult-like nature of Socialism in general and of Fabian Socialism, in particular.

The window also shows, in the background (above the globe), the Fabian “coat-of-arms” consisting of a wolf wearing a sheepskin and bearing a red standard with the initials “F.S.” Again, this symbolism is undeniably based on the fact of the Fabian tactic of “permeation” and of achieving its ends by stealth.

Finally, the Society’s Iranian logo may well be a hidden reference to the reconstruction of the world order in line with international oil interests. The Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (later British Petroleum) was among the corporate members of the Royal Institute of International Affairs a.k.a. Chatham House (King-Hall, p. 140), an organisation co-founded by members of the Fabian Society and the Society has retained close links to oil interests (see below).

The Fabians and subversive money interests

The main body through which the Fabian Society operated in the beginning was the Liberal Party, this being the centre-left party at the time. However, the Fabians’ involvement with Liberal politics also linked them with liberal capitalist interests, regular contact with whom was nurtured through various Fabian creations such as the Coefficients Dining Club (Quigley, pp. 137-8; cf. M. Cole, p. 118).



That the Fabians consciously sought the company, collaboration and support of the wealthy and powerful is evident from Fabian writings such as Beatrice Webb’s Our Partnership, which abound in references to “catching millionaires,” “wire-pulling,” “moving all the forces we have control over,” while at the same time taking care to “appear disinterested” and claiming to be “humble folk whom nobody suspects of power” (Webb, 1948).



In fact, the Webbs were in regular touch with the likes of Arthur Balfour and Richard Haldane (a member of the Fabian Society) who served as contacts between the Fabians and the powerful and wealthy. As their social circle expanded, the Webbs’ frequent dinners, informal meetings, and “little parties” enabled them to mingle with leading members of the ruling elite like Lord Rosebery, Julius Wernher (of the gold and diamond mining company Wernher, Beit & Co.) and Lord Rothschild, and talk them into backing their subversive projects.

It is essential to understand, however, that this was far from being a one-way affair. The leading elements of liberal capitalism – the big businessmen, industrialists and bankers – who had amassed great wealth in the wake of the industrial revolution, were no selfless philanthropists. They aimed to strengthen their own position of power and influence by two means: (1) by monopolising finance, economy and politics; and (2) by controlling the growing urban working class.

The first aim was to be achieved by the centralisation of capital, means of production, etc. The second was to be gained through organising the workers and through promises of a larger share in resources. These aims coincided with those of the Socialist movement of which the Fabians aimed to become the leading element.

As pointed out by H. G. Wells, big business was by no means antipathetic to Communism as “the larger big business grows the more it approximates to Collectivism” (Wells, p. 100). Similarly, Joseph A Schumpeter, who taught David Rockefeller at Harvard, wrote:

The true pacemakers of socialism were not the intellectuals or agitators who preached it but the Vanderbilts, Carnegies and Rockefellers (Schumpeter, p. 134).

Indeed, we find that the core of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels’ Manifesto of the Communist Party (1848) consisted of monopolistic capitalist policies like the centralisation of capital and the organisation of workers.

Marx and Engels had begun their career as journalists working for liberal capitalist interests. Marx later worked for the New York Tribune, whose owner, Horace Greeley and editor, Charles Anderson Dana were close collaborators of Clinton Roosevelt (Sutton, 1995, p. 45), a radical Democrat member of the well-known Roosevelt Clan whose main areas of interest were banking and politics and who were close allies of the Vanderbilts.

The Fabian Society not only adopted Marx and Engels’ policies but was closely connected with the same kind of interests:

Hubert Bland, a bank-employee-turned-journalist, worked for the London Sunday Chronicle, a paper owned by newspaper magnate Edward Hulton, formerly of the Liberal Manchester Guardian. Bland was a co-founder of the Fabian Society in 1884 and became a member of its executive and its long-serving treasurer. He also recruited his friend and fellow journalist Bernard Shaw.

Shaw was working for the London Pall Mall Gazette, where leading Liberal William T. Stead served as editor and Alfred (later Lord) Milner as his assistant. Both Stead and Milner were close to diamond magnate and Rothschild associate Cecil Rhodes and were involved in the formation of the influential secret organisation known as the Milner Group. Having been recruited to the Fabian Society by his friend Bland in 1884, Shaw recruited Annie Besant and his friends Sidney Webb, Sydney Olivier and Graham Wallas in 1885 and 1886.

Tellingly, the Fabians were also adept at securing a higher social and financial position for themselves – which shows that the “equitable share of natural and acquired advantages” and the “complete substitution of public property for private property” preached in the Fabian Basis and elsewhere were not regarded by Fabians as binding on themselves.

Shaw’s friend and fellow Fabian Society leader Sidney Webb married Beatrice, daughter of Richard Potter, a wealthy financier with international connections who served as chairman of the Great Western and Grand Trunk Railways of England and Canada. Beatrice was also a close friend of Rothschild associate and Conservative Prime Minister Arthur Balfour. The Great Western Railways (GWR) supported Webb’s fledgling London School of Economics by booking courses for members of its staff at the school and Webb also used his wife’s other connections to further his Fabian agendas.

Shaw himself married Charlotte, daughter of Horace Payne-Townshend (a wealthy Stock Exchange investor), who was one of the financial backers of the Fabian Society. Shaw was employed by millionaire William Waldorf (later Lord) Astor, owner of the Pall Mall Gazette, and became a close friend of the latter’s son (and Milner Group leader) Waldorf and his wife Nancy. Interviews with both Shaw and Webb promoting Socialist ideas were published by the Pall Mall and St. James’s Gazettes.

As Shaw, Webb, Olivier and Wallas became the Fabian Society’s dominant “Big Four,” it becomes clear that the Society originated as a private organisation run by elements in the employ of media outlets representing liberal capitalist interests.

Indeed, the Society’s key financial backers included John Passmore Edwards, an associate of textile manufacturer and leader of the Liberal “Manchester School,” Richard Cobden himself. For example, in the 1890s, Passmore Edwards donated £10,000 for a new building for the Fabians’ London School of Economics (LSE) (Webb. p. 93).

The Fabians were also linked with the Manchester School through Harold Cox, a member of the Fabian Society who was a follower of Manchester Liberalism, secretary of the Cobden Club and editor of the influential quarterly Edinburgh Review, as well as a collaborator of Sidney Webb (Webb, p. 502).

It follows that both Karl Marx and the Fabian Society were bankrolled by industrial interests with links to the left-wing Manchester School and the media world.

These already powerful interests were allies of the Rothschild banking family which had close links to the shadowy world of Manchester’s left-wing media, industry and finance: the Rothschilds’ first port of call in England had been Manchester, where the group’s patriarch Nathan Meyer started his career in the textile trade. They had a long tradition of support for Liberal causes, several leading members of the group having served as Liberal members of parliament.

The Fabian Society and Rothschild interests. The Fabian Society was in close touch with the Rothschilds both directly and through go-betweens like Lord Arthur Balfour. The Balfours were among the chief representatives of Britain’s money power and were involved in the creation of organisations advancing its interests from the Anglo-American League and the Pilgrims Society to Imperial College and the League of Nations. While his brother Gerald was President of the Board of Trade, Arthur Balfour served as President of the Local Government Board and later as Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary. While in these posts, he conferred on a regular basis with both Lord Natty Rothschild and the Fabian leadership and used his position to advance their agendas.

Lord Rothschild himself was personally involved, with Sidney Webb, in the restructuring of the University of London into which the Fabians’ London School of Economics (LSE) was incorporated in 1898. He also provided funds for the LSE and served as its third president, after his relative Lord Rosebery (Webb, pp. 182, 214).

The LSE continues to maintain close links with Rothschild and allied interests. For example, LSE’s Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment is funded by the Grantham Foundation, whose founder Jeremy Grantham of the investment management firm Grantham, Mayo & Otterloo (GMO) was an economist at Rothschild-controlled Royal Dutch Shell; the Grantham Institute’s advisory board includes Sir Evelyn de Rothschild of EL Rothschild Ltd. and Vikram Singh Mehta of Shell Companies, India; Rothschild, Shell, Barclays, Goldman Sachs, J. P. Morgan and Morgan Stanley are members of the LSE Careers Patron Group; Peter Sutherland, chairman of Goldman Sachs International, is chairman of the LSE, etc.

read on here freebritainnow.org/0/fabiansociety.htm
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 17:06 #66

lets tie this back to the OP...so is it all really about fairness and equality or are they wolves in sheeps clothing hiding their true technocratic ambitions in a trojan horse of faux morality?

Jeremy Corbyn speaks to the Fabian Society

Last Edit: 12 Feb 2019 17:08 by iamawaveofthesea.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 17:08 #67

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Rocco wrote:
Can you cite those goals in his work, or have you/some other Right Wing Capitalist memer just made them up to further shill for bankster protection, the stock market, and usury?
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Last Edit: 12 Feb 2019 17:11 by Frothy.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 17:12 #68

Frothy wrote:
Can you cite those goals in his work, or has you or some other Right Wing Capitalist memer just made them up to further shill for bankster protection and usury?

they do want to do those things. here is a socialist speaking to the worlds assembled monopoly-capitalists at the world economic forum outlining the shape of the smart city technocracy that the fabian socialists are building through their corporatocracy:

The Privacyless, Freedomless Smart City of 2030 the Elite Are Engineering

Last Edit: 12 Feb 2019 17:12 by iamawaveofthesea.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 17:16 #69

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iamawaveofthesea wrote:
lets tie this back to the OP...so is it all really about fairness and equality or are they wolves in sheeps clothing hiding their true technocratic ambitions in a trojan horse of faux morality?

Jeremy Corbyn speaks to the Fabian Society


Well the thread premise is about Corbyn not being the same person with the same views before he became leader of the Labour Party, he was openly anti-European Union less than 10 years ago.
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Last Edit: 12 Feb 2019 17:16 by Frothy.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 17:20 #70

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Frothy wrote:
Rocco wrote:
Can you cite those goals in his work, or have you/some other Right Wing Capitalist memer just made them up to further shill for bankster protection, the stock market, and usury?
Yeah, it's literally in the Communist Manifesto dumbass
You can't fix stupid
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 17:20 #71

Frothy wrote:
Well the thread premise is about Corbyn not being the same person with the same views before he became leader of the Labour Party, he was openly anti-European Union less than 10 years ago.

you mean he paid lip service to that to seduce working people?

but as we have seen when it actually came to the crunch he sold out the british people

You can hear him virtue signalling to irish activists saying that because they did not vote the way the EU wanted them to vote on the lisbon treaty they would be made to vote again (and they were). he even says that he wished that britain could get a vote.

But then we DID get a vote! And what did comrade corbyn then do? he told the british people that they would have to change their minds and go along with what the EU wants!

That's despite 60% of labour constituencies voting for brexit. The guy has failed the test
Last Edit: 12 Feb 2019 17:21 by iamawaveofthesea.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 17:31 #72

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Frothy wrote:
iamwavesofsea
if marx was around today he would be playing a george soros type role for the cabal in helping to socially engineer society towards the technocratic gulag

No he wouldn't, you appear to be entirely clueless about Marx, people like Soros who hoard wealth are the exact type of people that Marx opposed in his socioeconomic theories/writing etc ...

...what you're doing is using the same misplacement of thought as Rocco is, Soros is a Capitalist, the 'cabal' (we're getting a bit Icke now lol) are capitalists, they hoard cash, they keep it from the working class public, that's the polar opposite to Marxian thought.

As I say, you're blaming the acts of Capitalist fat cat multimillionaires/billionaires onto Marxism, but Marxism is about taking their millions and billions back to the work force who's labour produced that money/value in the first place, in other words if Marx was around today and had the power to do so he would have it so that there aren't any millionaires/billionaires around, Soros would just be a person like everyone else with no great financial clout behind him.

You don't seem to be able to comprehend that we're not living in a Marxian ideology, we're living in a profiteering one which is friendly to the super rich. There's nothing i've ever seen that Marx has written in support of that, he was writing against that, yet you're trying to pin that on him.

I'm not sure if you're simply clueless and you don't know what you;re talking about, or you've just decided to make excuses for the wrongs of these super rich people, using their wealth to be manipulative, and somehow blame that onto Marx, and you expect the TZ readers to believe that Marx was on the side of the super wealthy and wanted to wipe out the hoi polloi, after spending a good part of his life trying to help them to be released from their slavery and to get back the theft of their labour. Now you think he wants them all killed and to be replaced with machines. :loco:

It's a lot more likely that he would want them to have a share of the wealth of the automation, he advocated from socioeconomic equality, not for committing genocide on the working class. The entire concept of Marxian thought is class war, it's not about killing the lower classes, it was about making the whole dynamic classless, so their would be no super rich motherfuckers the 'Cabal' or whatever you want to call it, anyway, there would be no Agenda 21, there wouldn't be any need to 'save the planet' etc etc....because production would be reduced because there would be no need for any profits. Agenda 21 is a response to Capitalism, 'unsustainable populations' are due to an unequal distribution of infrastructure and resources on a global scale,. those populations aren't needed by the Capitalist elitists, they can't use them, they don't want to keep giving them aid, even though 8 people have more wealth than the lower 65% of people in the world, they want to keep that bootie hoarded away.

If not for Capitalism there would be no need for Agenda 21 as per the reason given for it, it's just a case of hoarding a lot of money by the few, and the rest are in the way.

The 65% aren't really purchasing much, so they can be replaced by automation by the Capitalists and the remaining 35% will be the consumers,
So it's a war on the poor, first enslave them, and then their jobs can be done by robotics then just depopulate them. That's the nature of the evil Capitalist machine.

Its really quite simple.

Not only have the oligarchs waged economic warfare against the masses, physical , spiritual warfare too, but they have been waging psychological and information war on us from the very get go.

Rocco and Iamwave are simply products of the brainwashing and social manipulation from the oligarchs.

They are products of black propaganda and information warfare. They have spent millions and millions of dollars to manipulate our minds, and people like Rocco and Iamwave have simply had their heads fucked with , to put it bluntly.

The elites are masters of manipulation, they can have you thinking left is right and up is down.

They've convinced people that a billionaire war monger named Donald Trump is for the little man and is anti-war.

Amazing thing that their propaganda can do.

Virtually every single talking point you hear from Iamwave or Rocco can be traced to billionaire funded think tanks like the Manhattan Institute, Council on Foreign relations, Heritage Foundation, Council for National Policy, American Enterprise Institute, Hoover Institute, American Security Council, Cato Institute.

There are NONE of these thinktanks pushing any of Marx's ideology, NONE, yet the brainwashed will go on and on about Marx, because they have been trained like dogs to obey commands.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 18:02 #73

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Rocco wrote:
Frothy wrote:
Rocco wrote:
Can you cite those goals in his work, or have you/some other Right Wing Capitalist memer just made them up to further shill for bankster protection, the stock market, and usury?
Yeah, it's literally in the Communist Manifesto dumbass

So no, you can't cite any of it, cheers. :thumbup:
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 18:09 #74

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Frothy wrote:
Rocco wrote:
Frothy wrote:
Rocco wrote:
Can you cite those goals in his work, or have you/some other Right Wing Capitalist memer just made them up to further shill for bankster protection, the stock market, and usury?
Yeah, it's literally in the Communist Manifesto dumbass

So no, you can't cite any of it, cheers. :thumbup:
All you have to do is scroll up a few posts you lazy welfare scrounging food stamp collector
You can't fix stupid
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 18:26 #75

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iamawaveofthesea wrote:
Frothy wrote:
Well the thread premise is about Corbyn not being the same person with the same views before he became leader of the Labour Party, he was openly anti-European Union less than 10 years ago.

you mean he paid lip service to that to seduce working people?

but as we have seen when it actually came to the crunch he sold out the british people

You can hear him virtue signalling to irish activists saying that because they did not vote the way the EU wanted them to vote on the lisbon treaty they would be made to vote again (and they were). he even says that he wished that britain could get a vote.

But then we DID get a vote! And what did comrade corbyn then do? he told the british people that they would have to change their minds and go along with what the EU wants!

That's despite 60% of labour constituencies voting for brexit. The guy has failed the test

No I don't think he paid lip service back then, I still think he's a Eurosceptic now, but he's had Labour Party conferences and it's been decided that they'd remain in the EU, and challenge it from within, that would actually be the Fabian way, to nudge it along form the inside, so Corbyn had simply shelved his personal preferences.

I'll try and education you but I doubt it will sink in; Corbyn is more of a Marxist than a Fabianist.

The core difference is Marxism would rely on a revolution of some kind, it's what Lenin thought he was doing back then, but the Bolshevik activity was implemented through Lenin's plans Marx didn't have a plan, he only had an analysis of the Capitalist dynamic and a Utopian vision, he never described a plan of action of how to achieve said vision.

Fabianism is a gradual shift into Socialism by gently nudging it along, and trying to change opinion with intellectual debate over long periods of time.So it's a long term plan, not a revolution.

So what you and Rocco et al try and blame on Marx as 'Cultural Marxism' is really 'Cultural Fabianism' and it's attempting to slowly nudge Capitalism along gently, little by little, it's the sort of thing Tony Blair was up to, sort of being Conservative/Capitalist in some ways, hoping to nudge them over to Socialism, he was leaning in. It's a bit like what Bernie Sanders is up to in the US, he's trying to appeal to the Capitalist Culture and nudge it Left, but all that stuff is Fabianism not Marxism, Marx put his cards face up on the table and sort of said 'this is what we need to happen right now' he wanted somehow for everything to stop, and to get reorganised, he had the idea but he had not idea how to implement it.

So even though Fabianism may have the Marxian utopia as their end game goal, Marx wasn't one for sneaking it along almost covertly, so slowly that one would hardly notice,he wanted to have his ideas implemented immediately but he'd didn't know how to do it, or have the means to do it.

So Marxism is only an analysis and a vision. it's Fabianism which is sneaking progression along. I guess what Lenin did was to implement Marxism badly, somehow it turned into a domineering State hoarding all the wealth later under Stalin.

So Fabianism is the covert style of Socialism you're looking at, not Marxism which is far more up front and revolutionary.
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Last Edit: 12 Feb 2019 18:39 by Frothy.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 18:29 #76

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Rocco wrote:
Frothy wrote:
Rocco wrote:
Frothy wrote:
Rocco wrote:
Can you cite those goals in his work, or have you/some other Right Wing Capitalist memer just made them up to further shill for bankster protection, the stock market, and usury?
Yeah, it's literally in the Communist Manifesto dumbass

So no, you can't cite any of it, cheers. :thumbup:
All you have to do is scroll up a few posts you lazy welfare scrounging food stamp collector

You've cited nothing apart from a shitty Capitalist meme, and the name of a book, from which you've cited zero passages to back up the comments that you have in said shitty Capitalist meme.

You're a scabby little lying cunt and a shill for the banksters.
Once a hyena always a hyena.
Last Edit: 12 Feb 2019 18:31 by Frothy.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 18:33 #77

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iamawaveofthesea wrote:
''it may be observed that both the extreme right and the extreme left of the conventional political spectrum are absolutely collectivist. The national socialist (for example, the fascist) and the international socialist (for example the communist) both recommend totalitarian politico-economic systems based on naked, unfettered political power and individual coercion. Both systems require monopoly control of society. While monopoly control of industries was once the objective of JP Morgan and JD Rockefeller, by the late nineteenth century the inner sanctums of wall street understood that the most efficient way to gain an unchallenged monopoly was to ''go political'' and make society go to work for the monopolists under the name of the public good and the public interest. This strategy was detailed in 1906 by Frederick C Howe in his 'confessions of a monopolist.' Howe, by the way, is also a figure in the story of the Bolshevik Revolution''
-Wallstreet and the Bolshevik revolution by Anthony C sutton

This alliance can be seen manifesting today in the rothschild driven climate change agenda which calls for cortez's 'green deal' transition to the elites long planned for TECHNOCRACY

Anthony Sutton ultimately is an elitist shill.

He was a member of the Hoover Institute which has members such as Condoleeza Rice, Jim Mattis, Margaret Thatcher, Milton Friedman, plenty of BUsh insiders, CNP members, and people connected to the military industrial complex.

Suttons works were praised by CFR member Zbignew Brezieski and Richard Pipes (former CIA, CFR member, Zionist)

Hoover institution members of particular note are Milton Friedman and Margaret Thatcher. Friedman is known as the most important economist of the 20th century because he is responsible for the creation of Neoliberalism, which is the move away from heavy taxation and regulation towards "free markets" or what can be described as Libertarianism.

This ultimately is what Sutton is pushing. He is trying to pin all the evils of the world on Communism and offer you "free markets" (Libertarianism AKA give the billionaires a break)

That is why he is praised by Council on Foreign Relations members for doing good work to help out the oligarchs by blaming Communism.

If you want to get to the bottom of all of this, it is much more complicated than copying and pasting articles without the full context.

Sutton's job is to promote the economic system of the billionaire elites, which is "free markets" And they have implemented this neoliberalism since the 1980's when Thatcher and Reagan implemented Milton Friedmans economic sytem which was pushed by the Mont Pellerin society, which is a group of bankers who formulated this economic policy.

You are falling into their trap.
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 18:34 #78

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iamawaveofthesea wrote:
Frothy wrote:
Can you cite those goals in his work, or has you or some other Right Wing Capitalist memer just made them up to further shill for bankster protection and usury?

they do want to do those things. here is a socialist speaking to the worlds assembled monopoly-capitalists at the world economic forum outlining the shape of the smart city technocracy that the fabian socialists are building through their corporatocracy:

The Privacyless, Freedomless Smart City of 2030 the Elite Are Engineering

So that's a no then. :)
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 18:39 #79

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Frothy wrote:
Rocco wrote:
Frothy wrote:
Rocco wrote:
Frothy wrote:
Rocco wrote:
Can you cite those goals in his work, or have you/some other Right Wing Capitalist memer just made them up to further shill for bankster protection, the stock market, and usury?
Yeah, it's literally in the Communist Manifesto dumbass

So no, you can't cite any of it, cheers. :thumbup:
All you have to do is scroll up a few posts you lazy welfare scrounging food stamp collector

You've cited nothing apart from a shitty Capitalist meme, and the name of a book, from which you've cited zero passages to back up the comments that you have in said shitty Capitalist meme.

You're a scabby little lying cunt and a shill for the banksters.
You need to update your Megaphone Desktop Tool
You can't fix stupid
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Will the real Jeremy Corbyn please Stand Up! 12 Feb 2019 18:43 #80

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iamawaveofthesea wrote:
''Marx's great book Das kapital is at once a monument of reasoning and a storehouse of facts''
-Lord Milner, member of the British War cabinet, 1917, and director of the London Joint Stock Bank

'Some of the passages [in Milner] on industry and society...are passages which any socialist would be proud to have written. But they are not written by a socialist. They were written by the ''man who made the boer war''. Some of the passages on Imperialism and the white man's burden might have been written by a tory diehard. They were written by the student of Karl Marx''
-Edward Crankshaw

''This society has been known at various times as Milner's Kindergarten, as the Round Table Group, as the Rhodes crowd, as The Times crowd, as the All Souls group, and as the Cliveden set. ... I have chosen to call it the Milner group. Those persons who have used the other terms, or heard them used, have not generally been aware that all these various terms referred to the same Group...this Group is, as I shall show, one of the most important historical facts of the twentieth century.''

''This radical Right fairy tale, which is now an accepted folk myth in many groups in America, pictured the recent history of the United States, in regard to domestic reform and in foreign affairs, as a well-organized plot by extreme Left-wing elements ... This myth, like all fables, does in fact have a modicum of truth. There does exist, and has existed for a generation, an international Anglophile network which operates, to some extent, in the way the Radical right believes the Communists act. In fact, this network, which we may identify as the Round Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists, or any other group, and frequently does so. I know of the operation of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960s, to examine its papers and secret records. I have no aversion to it or to most of its aims and have, for much of my life, been close to it and to many of its instruments. I have objected, both in the past and recently, to a few of its policies... but in general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown, and I believe its role in history is significant enough to be known.''
-Carroll Quigley, 'tragedy and hope'

Carroll Quigley said that the banks had "infiltrated" progressive movements at home and abroad.

This should be obvious to anybody that they infiltrate oppositon movements through their extensive intelligence apparatus.

We only have to look to the FBI cointelpro program, or how the Mossad infiltrates groups like Hezbollah. The Mossad even got as high as the 3rd or 4th most important position in the Syrian government at one point, and the agent was hanged.

This doesn't in any way delegitimize legitimate opposition to the oligarchs and their agenda. Of course they are going to try and infiltrate and control opposition groups.
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