TOPIC: Jung and Tarot

She is part of the following quote from a Tarot site which is relevant because Tarot would be an ideal one of the four perspectives or magical four primary forces. It would be the local energy interplay of which people close to each other share hopes and thoughts unconsciously, which I observed can sense or be sensed for a duration of six weeks in future possible. In Tarot this is seen in the ten card spread as crossing the person in the near future. The near and distant time frames of both past and future would be one experiment focusing on how the consciousness interprets itself in time.

Jungian psychoanalysis is borne from visions he saw, in many ways. His knowledge and scientific method was of the highest calibre. In this Tarot site we have a person worth reading talking about Jung's knowledge of the Tarot.

"Dierdre Bair recounts in Jung: A Biography (Little, Brown, 2003, p. 549) that in 1950 Jung assigned to each of the four members of his Psychology Club an ‘intuitive, synchronistic method’ to explore. Hanni Binder was to research the Tarot and teach him how to read the cards. They determined that Grimaud’s Ancien Tarot de Marseille “was the only deck that possessed the properties and fulfilled the requirements of metaphor that he gleaned from within the alchemical texts.” Hanni Binder’s work amounted to very little as can be seen from her report preserved at the Jung Institute in New York. The group disbanded around 1954.

What was behind Jung’s attempt to gather all this material? Marie-Louise von Franz recounts in Psyche and Matter (1988) that toward the end of his life:

Jung suggested investigating cases where it could be supposed that the archetypal layer of the unconscious is constellated*—following a serious accident, for instance, or in the midst of a conflict or divorce situation—by having people engage in a divinatory procedure: throwing the I Ching, laying the Tarot cards, consulting the Mexican divination calendar, having a transit horoscope or a geomantic reading done. If Jung’s hypothesis is accurate, the results of all these procedures should converge. . . . [*a Jungian term meaning ‘the coming together of elements in the unconscious so that they form a consciously recognizable pattern of relationships.’ Christine Houde adds, “The constellated material is activated in the psyche of the individual where it attempts to erupt into the field of experience.”]

“[This investigation would consist of] studying an incident (accident) by the convergence . . . of a multitude of methods, with the help of which we could try to find out what the Self “thought” of this particular accident. . . . The generally rather vague formulations of divinatory techniques resemble these “clouds of cognition” that, according to Jung, constitute “absolute knowledge.”

Von Franz further explains that Jung’s “clouds of cognition” represents an awareness on the part of our conscious intelligence of a far vaster field of information, an “absolute knowledge,” within the collective unconscious. These images, on the part of a “more or less conscious ego,” lack precise focus and detail. Thus, the realization of meaning has to be “a living experience that touches the heart just as much as the mind.” She continues:



“Archetypal dream images and the images of the great myths and religions still have about them a little of the “cloudy” nature of absolute knowledge in that they always seem to contain more than we can assimilate consciously, even by means of elaborate interpretations. They always retain an ineffable and mysterious quality that seems to reveal to us more than we can really know.”*

On 9 February 1960, about a year before he died, Jung wrote Mr. A. D. Cornell about the disappointing end to his grand experiment:


“Under certain conditions it is possible to experiment with archetypes, as my ‘astrological experiment’ has shown. As a matter of fact we had begun such experiments at the C. G. Jung Institute in Zurich, using the historically known intuitive, i.e., synchronistic methods (astrology, geomancy, Tarot cards, and the I Ching). But we had too few co-workers and too little means, so we could not go on and had to stop.”

The experiment proposed by Jung is discussed in the Journal of Parapsychology (March 1998): in an article titled: “The Rhine-Jung letters: distinguishing parapsychological from synchronistic events – J.B. Rhine; Carl Jung” by Victor Mansfield, Sally Rhine-Feather, James Hall. The authors conclude:"

marygreer.wordpress.com/2008...ung-and-tarot/

How exactly did they determine this? Are there research papers describing their results with differing versions of tarot packs?

Could you be less obtuse and anal?

Jung is the acknowledged expert on archetypes I would dare say. He studied alchemy and wrote books on it.

YOU are talking about something they never finished when you use the word 'results'. It is part of the links and references to see more of what they hoped to achieve. I would love to be part of such an experiment. I do have more - but I see no evidence you are in fact reading. I would presume you think you know Tarot. Why don't you dazzle me with your erudition?

Thomas Edison was not the only person and scientist to use Hypnagogic techniques to learn and develop himself. There is a thread here which covers it called Dreams and Dreamers.

serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1800

There is another thread here which includes a person doing astral travel mapping of the multiverse. This is the Introduction to that thread.

I met Blue Harary at the Psychical Research Foundation over 40 years ago. He was working on the early stages of what we hear so much about today but which is a very ancient investigatory technique including Remote Viewing. How much is objective and how much is subjective or run through the cultural rose-coloured glasses I cannot say. An older woman who was a top Remote Viewer with Ingo Swann impressed me about these things and with her wisdom a little over a decade ago.

There is a great deal we need to learn before we can even begin a personal plan much less a realistic plan to apply all the potential of a community, country or even the planet. Education needs to focus on spiritual potential such as yoga does as I see it. But then people point out that India is poor or Lululemon is crazy. Sri Aurobindo's constant companion says these things about prophecy and I dare say planning is what makes prophecies come true.

"The Mother Mira Alfassa on astrology

The stars have no decisive influence. It is only if one does not believe in the Divine that one unnecessarily suffers by believing that they determine one’s life.

I have known many astrologers both in Europe and India. So far, nobody has been able to read the future correctly. There are three reasons for the failure.

1.First, the astrologers do not know how to read the future properly.
2.Secondly, the horoscope is always incorrectly made − unless a man is a mathematical genius. And even for such a person it is very difficult to make a correct horoscope.
3.Thirdly, when people say that the stars in this or that house at the time of birth rule your life, they are quite wrong. The stars under which you are born are only “tape-recorders” of physical conditions. They do not rule the future of the soul. There is something beyond, which rules the stars themselves and everything else. The soul belongs to this Supreme Being. And if it is doing Yoga, then all the more it should never believe in the power of the stars or in any other power.

An astrologer who predicts a catastrophe for you is like a joker. Many jokers say things like, “Today you will break your neck!” But in spite of the joke nothing happens.

Only a great Yogi can tell you your future correctly. But even then there is the Supreme Will which alone controls and decides everything.

The most important factor in a horoscope is the intuitive faculty of the astrologer."

auromere.wordpress.com/2012/...sri-aurobindo/

Do I believe in Divination? No I do not. Do I believe anything? Not much of anything would fall into the category of certainty for me, but I do believe or know many systems and forces which do influence the FUTURE POTENTIAL. There are alternate possibilities and free choice can overcome forces lining up to cause something different. I told my father this when I told him he would die when he was 65, and he replied something to the extent - 'If so, that is fine.' We buried him a day after his 65th birthday and he had just been given a clean bill of health to continue working past retirement. I am at that same point in life now. A few years ago I made some healthy choices that probably have extended my life a decade or so, but I don't fear death or meeting the future for my soul.

Robert Baird wrote:
Dear Robert

Whay kind of spirits do you think Aurobindo Ghose is talking about; might they be the evil ones that need to be excorcised?

truth-zone.net/forum/secret-societies-and-powerful-families/66287-this-place-is-terrible.html?start=20#190204

This thread is not the thread you are looking for. It is not about demons. The proper thread is God "Within". I do not want to be dragged from pillar to post having to answer questions which derail every thread. I have only so much patience - and will simply ignore more chest-beating or pompous behaviour. Please also express your beliefs so I can address the headspace you are trapped in.

I'm not trapped in any headspace, so you needn't waste your time on such distractions where I'm concerned. Instead, maybe you could tell me(and any other interested readers) what great addition to the font of knowledge Jung made?

As you read Tarot for someone, you should maintain the participation of the attention (Intent) of the questioner in order to hopefully build the bridge (or what little connection there might be) from your soul to theirs (spirit might be a word that applies). I did this by explaining the spread (I used the ten card spread) or attempting to educate the person. You can read what follows and select a kind of dialogue or taped and canned pitch to do this. Remember a soft mesmeric voice helps. That trained voice can help you in many other aspects of life.

In Waite's writing we see he thinks the Albigensians (Cathars) might have created Tarot out of secret knowledge (alchemy or occamy which the Troubadour bards knew, who were involved in their efforts to return mankind to equality and wisdom). He also addresses a potential older divination root of the ten card spread which begins with the Diviner selecting representative cards based on what they know about the person. I did not use such an intrusive approach but occasionally I would have a card in my mind and watch for it to come up. I recall one case where I discussed this significator card before the reading and the questioner was upset. I later learned why - he had lied about his age.

"AN ANCIENT CELTIC METHOD OF DIVINATION

This mode of divination is the most suitable for obtaining an answer to a definite question. The Diviner first selects a card to represent the person or, matter about which inquiry is made. This card is called the Significator. Should he wish to ascertain something in connexion with himself he takes the one which corresponds to his personal description. A Knight should be chosen as the Significator if the subject of inquiry is a man of forty years old and upward; a King should be chosen for any male who is under that age a Queen for a woman who is over forty years and a Page for any female of less age.

The four Court Cards in Wands represent very fair people, with yellow or auburn hair, fair complexion and blue eyes. The Court Cards in Cups signify people with light brown or dull fair hair and grey or blue eyes. Those in Swords stand for people having hazel or grey eyes, dark brown hair and dull complexion. Lastly, the Court Cards in Pentacles are referred to persons with very dark brown or black hair, dark eyes and sallow or swarthy complexions. These allocations are subject, however, to the following reserve, which will prevent them being taken too conventionally. You can be guided on occasion by the known temperament of a person; one who is exceedingly dark may be very energetic, and would be better represented by a Sword card than a Pentacle. On the other hand, a very fair subject who is indolent and lethargic should be referred to Cups rather than to Wands.

If it is more convenient for the purpose of a divination to take as the Significator the matter about which inquiry is to be made, that Trump or small card should be selected which has a meaning corresponding to the matter. Let it be supposed that the question is: Will a lawsuit be necessary? In this case, take the Trump No. 11, or justice, as the Significator. This has reference to legal affairs. But if the question is: Shall I be successful in my lawsuit? one of the Court Cards must be chosen as the Significator. Subsequently, consecutive divinations may be performed to ascertain the course of the process itself and its result to each of the parties concerned."

www.integralpsychology.org/up...aite_tarot.pdf

Who might require the services of a competent tarot card reader and what are the type of questions they prefer to be asked?

A person seeking answers.

The questions usually center around NEEDs.

The answers are largely "within" and allow the person to focus on all forces that impact them.

Why would a person want or need to focus on all the forces that impact on them? It's not like any individual could hope to control or influence them all.

If you do not know the forces that impact you - you will not make good decisions, have a good life, get anywhere but where you already are, develop your soul enough to not have to repeat what you already detest, etc.. In short you can weed out mind control to some extent - do not do readings for yourself more than once every other week or they will be mush.

You constantly re-iterate the same NONsense about what any person can achieve - it is that very thing which prevents you from BEing.

deoxy.org/raw.htm

An honest jobbing psychic will tell you that the sitter brings the reading to the table with them.
Cards, Palm, Crystal, Tealeaves - Whatever - those are all just tools to aid the conversation.

GMP wrote:
Dear GMP

I agree the various disciplines are similar if the reader is building the Bridge. I am not sure I understand what you mean about the rest.

I do know that most psychics are not "honest" and that it is difficult to build the Bridge for me. There are special psychics who seem very much better than me, but I have not found them so good in person. I have never had a person tell me they got a better reading anywhere else.

Then there is face-reading which requires no bridge at all. Though the "conversation" as you call it can bring forth immediate and short term potential futures there can be some element of truth to a longer term outcome. I do not generally BELIEVE in any destiny - at all.

Jung's proposed experiment which never came about - might have been able to make some headway - Gary Schwartz and consciousness research at various universities explain a lot of the science which allows the appearance of true psychics but his work with Edwards seemed to confirm a true psychic medium through 'the departed'.

Have you ever been aided by entity sources in such a manner?

Two top psychics who read ladies I was involved with certainly got a future correct on me, but I think they were just reading me and my goals. I was miles away.

I suppose there is a cross over of energy consciousness which people like Cinta call EVIL. She asked such questions here before. Here it is (I said this was not the proper thread - but people do not want to read any facts in other threads so I guess it does not matter to them. It does to a person trying to give correct information or answering the questions.


My explanations include NO such thing as EVIL though the projecting of false self-serving imagery and energy by exorcists in churches comes close, as does the whole idea of priestly interpreters for the soul, getting in some position of speaking for the other side (g-d or other boogeymen).
There are bandwidths of refinement akin to the Eastern Philosophies or religions in a Pyramidal Harmonic Convergence - as I see it. The Oroborous and Abraxas operate along with the Rule of Complementarity from Quantum Physics.

I free a person of the possessor by freeing the soul of the possessor to move on with their path to the collective which has no ego or only an awareness of the particular collective they are still struggling in.

THAT last phrase suggests there is an element of ego or potential for past life regressions and 'helpers' in the BEYOND. I have no science to explain that potential except to say an ago can re-assimilate in the hereafter for good purpose (!) to contact and affect a situation in the material or outward manifestation of WHAT IS.

My approach has included what this reporter says about Brunton which I like to believe has merit. However, it does not shed light on any personal experience which aided him. I find the Bio of Joseph Campbell A Fire In The Mind has the personal and other avenues I think mirror my own. I think he said hello to me in an airport shortly before he passed over. It certainly 'reached' me.

A soul needs to see at some time before it goes past ego. See-ing has different meanings and depths. If you are a believer in re-incarnation you might see it as a venture which might take many lifetimes. If like me you think WE are part of oversouls and collective energy banks in the Jungian mode of thinking then you might challenge yourself to DO that which others in your soul continuum might regard with love and embrace you upon feeling your soul join with them once more.

"Rediscovering Paul Brunton

Reprint East/West October 1986

This spiritual seeker was a pioneer architect of the East-West bridge

By Barbara Platek and Steve Soiffer

It is 1985. Ten thousand miles across the globe, a visitor enters a modest courtyard that serves as a meeting place for one of India's most respected spiritual leaders, the Shankaracharya of Kanchipuram. Making his way past the entourage of attendants and followers, the visitor reverently greets the ninety-one-year- old yogi and silently hands him a photograph. The Shankara looks down at the faded picture, and a slow smile steals across his kindly face. The photograph is of Paul Brunton.

The West has gone East. Zen centers and vegetarian restaurants are everywhere, suburbanites are meditating, yoga, karma and guru are household words. Trace the origins of this eastward turning, however, and names like Watts and Suzuki come to mind--not Paul Brunton (1898-1981), the author, philosopher, and pioneer architect of the East-West bridge.

Since the early 1930's, Brunton's books on Eastern thought and Western culture have sold nearly two million copies. His first book, In Search of Secret India (now available in paperback from Samuel Weiser, Inc.), is credited with introducing the philosophy of yoga to Westerners. The American Theosophist has hailed Brunton as "one of the West's most perceptive thinkers and deepest students of Ancient Wisdom." Yet he remains oddly unknown to an entire generation of Western spiritual seekers.

Or perhaps not so oddly. In 1959--with the publication of his final book and at the height of a career filled with offers to found ashrams and to establish journals--Brunton disappeared. Once a journalist bent on traveling to strange lands to report about Eastern spirituality, he chose to abandon his worldly role and to traverse instead those regions of the heart where all traditions become one.

What did he discover during this two-decade journey into his own being? No one can say for sure. We can only guess at the magnitude of the changes he underwent by the clues in the legacy he left behind--his notebooks--some 10,000 pages of what Brunton describes as Brunton described as a more "mature" version of his earlier work. Since 1984, Larson Publications has published a complete set, sixteen volumes of The Notebooks of Paul Brunton, entitled Perspectives; The Quest; Practices for the Quest and Relax and Retreat; and Meditation and The Body; Emotions and Ethics and The Intellect; The Ego and From Birth to Rebirth; Healing of the Self and The Negatives; Reflections on My Life and Writings; The Human Experience and The Arts in Culture; The Sensitives; The Orient; The Religious Urge and The Religious Urge and The Reverential Life, Relativity, Philosophy and Mind, Inspiration and the Overself, Advanced Contemplation and The Peace Within You; Enlightened Mind, Divine Mind.

To read the "new" Brunton is to rediscover an old friend. Wise and compassionate, he offers candid advice about the pitfalls and possibilities of spiritual practice. And just as the world changed enormously over the last twenty years of his life, so did Brunton evolve and adapt his approach to better meet the needs of today's seekers. Although still looking to the Orient for inspiration and guidance, he does not believe that Westerners need shave their heads or sit cross-legged in a forest to attain spiritual fulfillment. Rather, he offers a simple, straightforward guide to how philosophical insights of East and West can help to create beauty, joy, and meaning in our lives--as we live them, not as they might have been lived had we been born at another time.


Soul Reporter

Brunton began his career quietly, as a London journalist in the early decades of this century. Although he was an inquisitive, talented reporter, his interest lay not in politics or current events but in the ancient riddles that have challenged philosophers through the ages: What is the meaning of the world and experience? What am I? What is the object of existence? Unlike many of his jazz-age contemporaries, Brunton recognized these questions as more than just abstractions to muse about over cognac and cigars. For him they were vital issues. From his youth they compelled his attention.

Other journalists of his time wrote about debates in Parliament or the successes and failures of British colonialism, then in its heyday. Brunton investigated the uncharted regions of the soul. To his task he brought a full range of journalistic skills, deliberately seeking out those individuals--philosophers, scientists, mystics--who might have the answers he wanted. It was not unusual to find him earnestly paging through a copy of Emerson or slipping softly into a meeting of the London Theosophical Society.

But Brunton's quest was hardly a conceptual shopping spree. An inner force gripped him, irresistingly driving him to probe beneath life's surface. With his characteristic thoroughness, he set about tracking down every lead available to him. He pondered all manner of recondite texts--on Platonism, Taoism, Vedanta--and investigated such then fashionable trends as parapsychology, occultism, and positive thought.

Many reference works that are easily available today were, of course, yet to be translated. People who have grown up during the last twenty years may have trouble realizing just how esoteric these studies once were. But Brunton's research was exceptional; an acquaintance who knew him during his later years observed that Brunton's address file contained the names of virtually every individual and organization even remotely connected with things spiritual.

Indeed, Brunton did meet many people--recognized authorities such as D.T.Suzuki,{Daisetz not David} C.G.Jung, and Annie Besant--but he steadfastly refused to give exclusive allegiance to any of the paths he explored. He conducted his research with a mind as keenly analytical as it were openly receptive. If he was unwilling to relinquish his privacy and independence by joining groups or cults, he was yet prepared to acknowledge genuine spiritual impulse wherever he found it: in other individuals, in the beauty of nature, and in the hushed depths of his own meditations."

www.nonduality.com/brunton4.htm

Freedom from, or freedom TO

I seek for wisdom and what to DO

Just another rip off or partial understanding of hermetic teachings - but here it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqM3TE5TDw8

Mme. H. P. Blavatsky, H. P. Lovecraft and Rudolf Steiner are all worth reading, I suppose. They got most of their insight from hermetics and ancient books like the books of the dead (modern name). But I tire of all the people following this path and taking pieces of truth - then ramming them with a fad or immoral concept - and making themselves more important than those who conceived these things long before they existed.
H. P. Blavatsky

I will de-construct this saying to find the errors or truths.

The first sentence has not said when one KNOWS how to act, It has not determined what 'repose' should entail. Does it entail meditation upon what one might ACT upon? Are "affairs" actually not worth acting upon at all? I see no LAW and no methods. Therefore the second sentence is an illusion or ego appealing to whatever MASTERY or power the "affairs" direct.

The final sentence should ask a person to see depression as a moment for acting on a valuable insight or reflection upon the ego and how it works in the knowing that it soon will pass. In knowing the moments of great enthusiasm can also do the same deception can an individual work on knowing how to make use of enthusiasms and do it with balance?