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Paranormal is a general term that designates experiences that lie outside "the range of normal experience or scientific explanation" or that indicates phenomena understood to be outside of science's current ability to explain or measure. Read More: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranormal

TOPIC: Are Dinosaurs A Hoax?

Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 02:41 #41

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They say this is the ELE crater which killed all the dinosaurs (yet, left other species alive)




Another thing I saw in one of the vids is the weird anatomy of the famous Tyrannosaurus Rex, as you can see it's 'front-end' is massive and where most of it's weight is placed, if one looks at how far back the legs are positioned:





Looks like it's very difficult for such a creature to hold it's balance and not constantly fall over all the time, breaking it's tiny front-paws along the way. Seems a very illogical build to me.
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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 11:43 #42

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Dinosaurs look quite similar to kangaroos to me Flare, in a structural sense.



There have been much larger kangaroos in the past apparently, now extinct.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procoptodon

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sthenurus

So when i see kangaroos in the wild functioning with somewhat similar bodies its not such a stretch to imagine its possible at least.

Especially if one considers this hypothesis to be probable...

"The mystery of the extinct giant kangaroo is solved – it didn't hop, it walked

The giant Sthenurus – dead for 30,000 years – was three times the size of the modern-day kangaroo

It looked like something out of the pages of Alice in Wonderland but this giant, short-faced kangaroo hid another peculiar characteristic down its pouch – it walked rather than hopped on its hind legs.

The extinct marsupial, which was nearly three times bigger than the largest living kangaroos, died out 30,000 years ago, but only now have scientists been able to tie its locomotion down.

With a leap of the imagination, the researchers were able to visualise how the giant Sthenurus kangaroo, which weighed up to 240kg, moved around by putting one foot in front of another rather than hopping on both legs.

Bipedal hopping is a quintessential feature of kangaroo locomotion, but the Sthenurine group of extinct ‘roos was clearly made for walking, according to Christine Janis of Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, who led the study published in the on-line journal PlosOne.

“When I first saw a mounted skeleton of a Sthenurine I was struck by how different it was in the back end to modern kangaroos, despite the superficial similarity of long hind legs,” Dr Janis said.

“My work emphasises that the large modern kangaroos are highly specialized in their anatomy for hopping in comparison with other large extinct kangaroos,” she said.

“Sthenurines almost certainly did hop, except perhaps for the very largest ones. The issue is that their anatomy is also suggestive of bipedal walking, which is the unexpected issue here,” she added.

Modern kangaroos use hopping to move around at speed but when moving slowly they walk mostly on all fours, using their massive tails as support – so-called “pentapedal” locomotion.

The extinct Sthenurus, however, must have walked on its hind legs because its anatomy does not fit with the notion of hopping or pentapedal locomotion, Dr Janis said. For a start, it had “robust”, heavier bones compared with the more slender anatomy of modern kangaroos, which would have made hopping hazardous.

“If it is not possible in terms of biomechanics to hop at very slow speeds, particularly if you are a big animal, and you cannot easily do pentapedal locomotion, then what do you have left? You’ve got to move somehow,” Dr Janis said.

An analysis of the giant kangaroo’s anatomy suggests it was well suited to bearing the animal’s entire weight on one leg, which is crucial for bipedal walking. Its ankle bone, for instance, had a flange over the back joint to provide extra support – something missing in modern kangaroos.

Sthenurus has proportionately bigger hip and knee joints than today’s kangaroos and the shape of its pelvis – broad and flared – suggested that it had large gluteal muscles in is backside, which would have allowed it to balance on one leg as it moved the other leg forward, Dr Janis said.

“I think that they originally took this up as an alternative slow gait to the way that other kangaroos move slowly on all fours using their tail to propel their hind legs past their front legs [because] hopping is biomechanically impossible at very slow speeds,” Dr Janis said.

“This requires a flexible back and supporting their weight on their hands, whereas sthenurines had a stiff back and specialized hands for feeding. So they had this unique walking gait,” she said.

Sthenurine kangaroos died out around the same time that modern humans arrived in Australia and began to spread across the continent, suggesting that their demise may have had something to do with human hunting.

Walking rather than hopping would have been a slower and less efficient means of moving fast, which may have been one of the reasons by the giant, walking kangaroo went extinct, leaving their hopping cousins to fill the void, Dr Janis explained."

www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-mystery-of-the-extinct-giant-kangaroo-is-solved-it-walked-on-its-back-legs-9796718.html

Oh and...



:larf:
I remember the good old days, when 90+ year olds in nursing homes lived forever. Darn this pesky virus.

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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 11:51 #43

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Gaia wrote:
There are many more impact craters on Earth, verified using different methods. Meteors are daily phenomena, meteorites (the rocks that are able to survive the atmospheric friction) are found everywhere on Earth. If you want to extend the "hoax" to that, create a new topic, and we'll discuss.

I often see meteorites come down.. im not talking about shooting stars but ones that get further and hit the ground.. some have been very close to me and one in particular was within range to go into a paddock to get it, but it was private property and had a crop planted in it.. i wasnt going to go driving around in there under those circumstances.

So for me, meteorites themselves are real.. others here can argue about whether they come from 'outer space' or the glass ceiling or the firmament if they like, i havent the inclination to get into that. :hahano:

Craters like the ones in AZ seem real enough also, and we can get much closer to terrestrial craters ourselves than the ones on the moon for example.
I remember the good old days, when 90+ year olds in nursing homes lived forever. Darn this pesky virus.

1365 = 1

1.1365 = 1,283,305,580,313,352
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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 12:59 #44

novum wrote:
Dinosaurs look quite similar to kangaroos to me Flare, in a structural sense.



There have been much larger kangaroos in the past apparently, now extinct.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procoptodon

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sthenurus

So when i see kangaroos in the wild functioning with somewhat similar bodies its not such a stretch to imagine its possible at least.

Especially if one considers this hypothesis to be probable...

"The mystery of the extinct giant kangaroo is solved – it didn't hop, it walked

The giant Sthenurus – dead for 30,000 years – was three times the size of the modern-day kangaroo

It looked like something out of the pages of Alice in Wonderland but this giant, short-faced kangaroo hid another peculiar characteristic down its pouch – it walked rather than hopped on its hind legs.

The extinct marsupial, which was nearly three times bigger than the largest living kangaroos, died out 30,000 years ago, but only now have scientists been able to tie its locomotion down.

With a leap of the imagination, the researchers were able to visualise how the giant Sthenurus kangaroo, which weighed up to 240kg, moved around by putting one foot in front of another rather than hopping on both legs.

Bipedal hopping is a quintessential feature of kangaroo locomotion, but the Sthenurine group of extinct ‘roos was clearly made for walking, according to Christine Janis of Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, who led the study published in the on-line journal PlosOne.

“When I first saw a mounted skeleton of a Sthenurine I was struck by how different it was in the back end to modern kangaroos, despite the superficial similarity of long hind legs,” Dr Janis said.

“My work emphasises that the large modern kangaroos are highly specialized in their anatomy for hopping in comparison with other large extinct kangaroos,” she said.

“Sthenurines almost certainly did hop, except perhaps for the very largest ones. The issue is that their anatomy is also suggestive of bipedal walking, which is the unexpected issue here,” she added.

Modern kangaroos use hopping to move around at speed but when moving slowly they walk mostly on all fours, using their massive tails as support – so-called “pentapedal” locomotion.

The extinct Sthenurus, however, must have walked on its hind legs because its anatomy does not fit with the notion of hopping or pentapedal locomotion, Dr Janis said. For a start, it had “robust”, heavier bones compared with the more slender anatomy of modern kangaroos, which would have made hopping hazardous.

“If it is not possible in terms of biomechanics to hop at very slow speeds, particularly if you are a big animal, and you cannot easily do pentapedal locomotion, then what do you have left? You’ve got to move somehow,” Dr Janis said.

An analysis of the giant kangaroo’s anatomy suggests it was well suited to bearing the animal’s entire weight on one leg, which is crucial for bipedal walking. Its ankle bone, for instance, had a flange over the back joint to provide extra support – something missing in modern kangaroos.

Sthenurus has proportionately bigger hip and knee joints than today’s kangaroos and the shape of its pelvis – broad and flared – suggested that it had large gluteal muscles in is backside, which would have allowed it to balance on one leg as it moved the other leg forward, Dr Janis said.

“I think that they originally took this up as an alternative slow gait to the way that other kangaroos move slowly on all fours using their tail to propel their hind legs past their front legs [because] hopping is biomechanically impossible at very slow speeds,” Dr Janis said.

“This requires a flexible back and supporting their weight on their hands, whereas sthenurines had a stiff back and specialized hands for feeding. So they had this unique walking gait,” she said.

Sthenurine kangaroos died out around the same time that modern humans arrived in Australia and began to spread across the continent, suggesting that their demise may have had something to do with human hunting.

Walking rather than hopping would have been a slower and less efficient means of moving fast, which may have been one of the reasons by the giant, walking kangaroo went extinct, leaving their hopping cousins to fill the void, Dr Janis explained."

www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-mystery-of-the-extinct-giant-kangaroo-is-solved-it-walked-on-its-back-legs-9796718.html

Oh and...



:larf:

Good point, but there are major differences between the anatomy of kangaroo's compared to what we know as the T-rex.

The kangaroo has unusually long feet to help it keep it's balance, and that tail curving down to the ground helps a lot too. Without those long feet the kangeroo wouldn't be able to keep it's balance, and would topple over forwards. The T-Rex doesn't have those same long feet extending forwards. So something doesn't add up for me.

If a creature like the T-Rex ever existed, i.e an upright walking reptile of that size, then it would have almost certainly needed much longer feet and a bigger tail than they originally hypothesized, just to keep it's balance.

I certainly believe there was bigger creatures roaming the Earth even as short as 1000's of years ago, however, I do doubt whether the dinosaurs we see in movies and put together in museums were actually real? Reading through some of those articles in the thread they certainly had a motive to make a lot of this stuff up.

The Bone Wars, or "Great Dinosaur Rush" was a period of intense fossil speculation in history, which was marked by intense rivalry between a number of different paleontologists, each of them using underhanded methods to try to out-do the other in their findings. Resulting in many dinosaur species being put together on hypothesis alone, often from just a few bones.

Compare the differences between the two images below, paying particular attention to the feet.. It's easy to see how a kangaroo can quite easily keep it's balance, while the T-rex would almost certainly topple over forwards with those tiny feet. It would need similar size forward facing feet like the Kangaroo has, to keep it's balance.



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Last Edit: 28 Mar 2017 13:22 by Return of Zorro.
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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 13:42 #45

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Sure Zorro you made valid points and the difference in the feet for one is something id considered already.. i brought kangaroos into the debate because they have some similar features and a viable body shape, but it was not my intention to take away from the consideration that, at the least, some 'artistic license' has been used by paleontologists involved with this rather recent phenomenon of dinosaur 'resurection' ... i certainly keep an open mind with these things, im not convinced t-rex as they say he was, actually was for example. The arms for one almost look vestigial even compared to a roo, which doesnt make sense either for an animal such as t-rex, a meat eating predator that runs after its prey etc as they say and has enourmous pronounced rear legs... its far from being on its way to becoming a legless lizard then a snake for example.

Im still waiting for the fookers to clone a woolly mammoth let alone a dino. Then perhaps we can see something of substance rather than plaster castings in museums. :larf: :hahano:
I remember the good old days, when 90+ year olds in nursing homes lived forever. Darn this pesky virus.

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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 13:52 #46

Yes, those tiny arms on the classic T-Rex don't make much sense either. You would think a huge bipedal up-right predatory lizard of that type would have much bigger arms to help balance itself? Similar in size to the kangaroo.
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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 14:00 #47

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Norse Bear wrote:
Ausrotten wrote:
An oil pipeline crew in Canada unearthed a 100-foot-long fossilized dinosaur skeleton this week, when a backhoe operator excavating soil accidentally broke off a piece of the creature’s tail. Paleontologists who arrived at the site near Spirit River in Alberta on Wednesday were stunned by the discovery, explaining that it’s rare to find fossils preserved in one piece. The pipeline company has assigned its workers to help the paleontologists carefully remove the fossil, which remains partially buried about 1.5 meters underground.



science.time.com/2013/10/03/pipeline-worker-finds-huge-dinosaur-fossil/

That could quite easily be a fossilised whale vertebrae? Where is the proof that anybody ever discovered a complete fossil of a T-rex? Where are all the pictures of complete fossils that depict the dinosaurs we see on display in museums around the World? Which we now know aren't made up of actual complete fossils or real bones. They are all man made and hypothetically reconstructed from incomplete fossils.

Yup. No complete skeleton has ever been found of a T-Rex and only 15 partial skeletons (at best) have been found this far. The first in 1905

From the American Museum of Natural History website
Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest and most fearsome carnivores of all time. Although Tyrannosaurus rex is one of the most renowned dinosaurs, its skeletons are quite rare—fewer than 15 partial specimens have ever been collected. The first T. rex fossil was discovered by a curator from the American Museum of Natural History—the legendary Barnum Brown—and the Museum boasts one of the few specimens of T. rex on public display.

The T Rex at the AMNH is not a full skeleton but a reconstruction using a partial skeleton (we are told was found) and then named a Tyrannosaurus Rex

www.amnh.org/dinosaurs/tyrannosaurus-rex
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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 14:08 #48

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Zorro wrote:
Yes, those tiny arms on the classic T-Rex don't make much sense either. You would think a huge bipedal up-right predatory lizard of that type would have much bigger arms to help balance itself? Similar in size to the kangaroo.

I agree yes.. some of the herbivore dinosaurs make more sense, they seem similar to current times elephants and bovine... t-rex's arms look like a tadpoles when they first pop out on its way to becoming a frog. :larf:

I wonder if there are any modern day lizards/ reptiles with such a discrepancy in the limbs? The lizards i see around here (and its quite a few) all seem to have similar sized front and rear limbs.
I remember the good old days, when 90+ year olds in nursing homes lived forever. Darn this pesky virus.

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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 14:50 #49

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Yeah... and imagine the dinosaur's 'top predator' having to make a turn on those legs...

It would have to turn very slowly with all that weight on the tip of it's feet in order not to fall over.

Doesn't seem very useful in a fight as it'll easily be toppled?

On the other hand, I've seen a comparison with how a chicken walks tho:



Then again, a chicken has got wings to stabilize itself:

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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 15:16 #50

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It is actually claimed that t-rex is closer to modern birds than reptiles, eg ostriches.. ( ive just read it on wiki :larf: )

Its claimed it had hollow bones, and possibly even feathers.

From memory wiki said its closest to birds, then frogs and newts, then some small american lizard that i forget the name of.

I wasnt that far off with the tadpole arms comment then! :larf:
I remember the good old days, when 90+ year olds in nursing homes lived forever. Darn this pesky virus.

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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 16:04 #51

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novum wrote:
It is actually claimed that t-rex is closer to modern birds than reptiles, eg ostriches.. ( ive just read it on wiki :larf: )

Its claimed it had hollow bones, and possibly even feathers.

From memory wiki said its closest to birds, then frogs and newts, then some small american lizard that i forget the name of.

I wasnt that far off with the tadpole arms comment then! :larf:

Yeah... however, the T-Rex didn't have wings? Seems very difficult to stabilise itself during a run and making sharper turns.

And the short arms would easily break with all that weight falling on them?

Doesn't seem logical to me.
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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 16:20 #52

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The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 16:32 #53

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What if a future paleontologist, who lives a couple of million years from now would discover fossils of these "awkwardly built" animals, would the hoax claimers say "it didn't exist, because it's impossible/impractible"?




The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
Last Edit: 28 Mar 2017 16:33 by Gaia.
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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 16:37 #54

Flare wrote:


Yeah... and imagine the dinosaur's 'top predator' having to make a turn on those legs...

It would have to turn very slowly with all that weight on the tip of it's feet in order not to fall over.

Doesn't seem very useful in a fight as it'll easily be toppled?

On the other hand, I've seen a comparison with how a chicken walks tho:



Then again, a chicken has got wings to stabilize itself:


The chickens legs are more central to it's body mass compared with the T-Rex though, thus giving a much better centre of gravity and balance.
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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 16:46 #55

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Gaia wrote:
What if a future paleontologist, who lives a couple of million years from now would discover fossils of these "awkwardly built" animals, would the hoax claimers say "it didn't exist, because it's impossible/impractible"?


If the practice of GMO foods and oils, as well as the nuking (irradiating) of anything nutritious like milk and nuts continues the way its going, as well as the drugged and poisoned mains water supplies... theyre gonna think, gee isnt he a dashing slim young man compared to our fat selves.

Thats if theyre smart enough to be paleontologists by then and have also beaten the robot rebellion/skynet along the way to stay alive.

:joker:
I remember the good old days, when 90+ year olds in nursing homes lived forever. Darn this pesky virus.

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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 16:48 #56

Gaia wrote:
The Frill-Necked Lizard only shows bipedalism during high speed runs, and only for short bursts of speed. It spends most of it's time on four legs and hanging about in trees, and I don't think it hunts on two legs either?

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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 16:58 #57

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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 17:07 #58

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True, but there are no other bipedal reptiles in the present biodiversity on Earth. Davy Icke may disagree though. :cool2:

The question is if T-Rex was a hunter. The point about the lack of quick turning skills may suggest he was much more a scavenger, eating the dead meat of the large herbivores around.

And a different build of animals doesn't really make them a hoax, does it? For that to be true all found fossils need to be either (1) faked or (2) from another animal or a combination of that (3).

1 - this assumption would require either a restriction of access to the faked fossils to only paleontologists who are "in the know", a NASA-type of control, that doesn't follow reality or all paleontologists are too stupid to recognise the difference between plaster/other material faked bones, eggs and tracks, also a long stretch of imagination and assumption
2 - which animals did those bones, eggs and tracks belong to, if it wasn't "dinosaurs"? What is the alternative taxonomy and evolution of these (big) beasts? How was the ecology of the Mesozoic; which animals ate the lush forests and which fed themselves on them?
3 - how to discriminate between "those fossils are fake" and "those fossils are not fake yet from another animal"?

Comparisons with the Nuclear Hoax, the Global Warming Scam and the Space Travel Hoax go wrong on several points:
- nukes are military; controlled top-down, strict policies against those who speak up, Nuclear Power Plants are also not accessible freely
- Global Warming is controlled by funding and the rigged system of "peer review", making sure dissenting views are controlled
- the Space Travel Hoax is easy to maintain as nobody can get up there to check for ourselves

The practicalities of hoaxing dinosaurs (and other animals too, or only dinosaurs?) are another argument against it. How much effort and cost is involved in faking a complete set of bones/skeleton inside (!) formations far away from civilisation? How do those machines go to those places in Inner Mongolia, Montana and Patagonia unnoticed? To later return to excavate the "faked" fossils?

And how is that done in a frequently visited quarry as the ENCI quarry in Maastricht?



www.andrerieu-movies.com/maastricht_mosasaurus.htm
www.cambridge.org/core/journals/netherlands-journal-of-geosciences/article/large-new-mosasaur-from-the-upper-cretaceous-of-the-netherlands/7AE5F4A5702AD644190524E737140885
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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 17:57 #59

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Dinosaur DECEPTION!!

Dinosaurs Never Existed!

Dinosaur Fossils are a HOAX.

Dinosaur - "a bunch of shattered bones held together by a couple of tons of plaster sitting in a museum display."



Conspiracy theorist and former paleontology student Michael Forsell caused a storm yesterday when, during a Radio interview with leading paleontologist Jack Horner, he called in and blasted Horner for being a total fraud, fabricating evidence and perpetuating the myth of dinosaurs. He also paused for breath before calling Horner a "Rock Jockey" and then hanging up.

"I started my career in the field of paleontology, only to leave my studies once I realized the whole thing was a sham. It's nonsense, most of the so-called skeletons in museums are actually plaster casts. They even do it openly on documentaries now, preserving the bones my ass!

I struggled as a student, mainly because I could not tell the difference between a fossilized egg and an ordinary rock, and of course there is no difference. I was treated like a leper when I refused to buy into their propaganda, and promptly left the course.

Dinosaurs never existed, the whole shebang is a freak show, they just grab a couple of old bones and form them into their latest Frankenstein's monster like exhibit. If dinosaurs existed they would be mentioned in the Bible.

We are all being fooled and it's wrong, but together we can stop it."

Dinosaurs: Science Or Science Fiction
by David Wozney


Introduction

When children go to a dinosaur museum, are the displays they see displays of science or displays of art and science fiction? Are we being deceived and brainwashed at an early age into believing a dinosaur myth? Deep probing questions need to be asked of the entire dinosaur business.

This article will discuss the possibility that there may have been an ongoing effort since the earliest dinosaur "discoveries" to plant, mix and match bones of various animals, such as crocodiles, alligators, iguanas, giraffes, elephants, cattle, kangaroos, ostriches, emus, dolphins, whales, rhinoceroses, etc. to construct and create a new man-made concept prehistoric animal called the dinosaur.

Where bones from existing animals are not satisfactory for deception purposes, plaster substitutes may be manufactured and used. Some material similar or superior to plasticine clay or plaster of Paris would be suitable. Molds may also be employed. A 144-page book titled "Make Your Own Dinosaur Out of Chicken Bones" provides step-by-step instructions complete with detailed drawings and diagrams.

What would be the motivation for such a deceptive endeavor? Obvious motivations include trying to prove evolution, trying to disprove or cast doubt on the Christian Bible and the existence of the Christian God, and trying to disprove the “young-earth theory”. Yes, there are major political and religious ramifications.

The dinosaur concept implies that if God exists, He tinkered with His idea of dinosaurs for awhile, then probably discarded or became tired of this creation and then went on to create man. The presented dinosaur historical timeline suggests an imperfect God who came up with the idea of man as an afterthought, thus demoting the biblical idea that God created man in His own image. Dinosaurs are not mentioned in the Hebrew Bible.

Highly rewarding financial and economic benefits to museums, educational and research organizations, university departments of paleontology, discoverers and owners of dinosaur bones, and the book, television, movie and media industries may cause sufficient motivation for ridiculing of open questioning and for suppression of honest investigation.

Dinosaur Discoveries

Early Dinosaur Discoveries in North America provides revealing information about the first discoveries:

"The class Dinosauria was originally defined by Sir Richard Owen in 1842, in a two hour speech that reportedly held the audience captivated. The original dinosaurs of this new group were Megalosaurus, Iguanodon and Hylaeosaurus. However, each of these animals was known only from fragmentary specimens. It wasn't until the discoveries of dinosaurs in North America in the mid-19th century that people began to get a clearer picture of what dinosaurs looked like."

"It is generally accepted that the first discovery of dinosaur remains in North America was made in 1854 by Ferdinand Vandiveer Hayden during his exploration of the upper Missouri River."

"Near the confluence of the Judith and Missouri Rivers (shown above) Hayden's party recovered a small collection of isolated teeth which were later described by the Philadelphia paleontologist Joseph Leidy in 1856, in the Proceedings of the Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia."
So, dinosaurs were described in 1842 before the discoveries in 1854 that were required to give a clear picture of what dinosaurs looked like! Were discoveries made or constructed to fit the descriptions?

"Dinosaur skeletons were found for the first time in abundance in the Garden Park area of Colorado and at Como Bluff, Wyoming, in the late 1870s. These specimens initiated the First Great Dinosaur Rush in North America, driven largely by the efforts of a Philadelphia paleontologist, Edward Drinker Cope (on the left), and Othniel Marsh (on the right), a paleontologist from Yale University."

"These two men started as friends but became bitter rivals in a feud of legendary proportions. The stories surrounding these two include tales of armed field parties, spies, and intercepting shipments of fossils intended for the other." (Bold and italics are mine throughout this article.)
Why were fossils being shipped to the discoverers and from whom?

Wayne Grady explains in his book The Dinosaur Project: "From Cope, Sternberg had learned cutthroat bone hunting. Cope and his arch rival, Othniel Charles Marsh, professor of paleontology at Yale University, had been engaged in what have been called 'the bone wars' throughout the 1870s and 1880s. It was a fierce scientific rivalry that entailed some of the most underhanded shenanigans in the history of science, but it also amassed stupendous collections of fossils."

"The Second Great Dinosaur Rush took place in the badlands of the Red Deer River in southern Alberta. Dinosaur remains had been known from this region as early as 1884 but it wasn't until 1910 that this region became an active collecting area. It was here that the second great collecting rivalry took place between Barnum Brown of the American Museum of Natural History in New York and C. H. Sternberg of the Geological Survey of Canada."

Why were there no discoveries by native Americans in all the years previous when they roamed the American continents? There is no belief of dinosaurs in the native American religion or tradition.

For that matter, why were there no discoveries prior to the nineteenth century in any part of the world? According to the World Book Encyclopedia, "before the 1800's, no one ever knew that dinosaurs ever existed". "During the late 1800's and early 1900's, large deposits of dinosaur remains were discovered in western North America, Europe, Asia, and Africa." "Dinosaur deposits also lie in Belgium, Mongolia, Tanzania, West Germany, and many other parts of the world."

Why has man suddenly made all these discoveries? Belgium, Mongolia, Tanzania, West Germany (and the Americas as well) were inhabited and very well explored for thousands of years and there were no discoveries until the nineteenth century. Why?

At Dinosauria : Fossil Record we learn that "The late 1800s were the 'golden age' of dinosaur paleontology, when many animals that you might be familiar with were discovered and named. Today we seem to be in another 'dinosaur renaissance', with new information accumulating rapidly".

At The Meaning of the Hadrosaurus Find: Proof That Dinosaurs Were Real we learn that people were allegedly becoming enlightened by the new discoveries. The impression that I receive is that people were possibly being deceived and that the discoveries were possibly "being made" as a reaction and rebellion against God and the Bible.

"The First Real Proof of Dinosaur Existence"

"Eight years after this reference book was published the first comprehensive skeletal form of a real dinosaur--Hadrosaurus foulkii --was unearthed in Haddonfield, New Jersey. Taller than a house, it had the pelvic structure of a bird, the tail of a lizard and, incredibly, it walked upright on two legs, foraging with arm-like forelimbs."

Were the bones of a bird and lizard and other animals used in the discovery?

Discoverers And Nature Of Discoveries


Discoveries and excavations seem not to be made by disinterested people, such as farmers, ranchers, hikers, outdoor recreationists, building construction industry basement excavators, pipeline trench diggers, and mining industry personnel but rather by people with vested interests, such as paleontologists, scientists, university professors, and museum organization personnel who were intentionally looking for dinosaur bones or who have studied dinosaurs previously. The finds are often made during special dinosaur-bone hunting trips and expeditions by these people to far-away regions already inhabited and explored. This seems highly implausible. More believable is the case of the discovery of the first original Dead Sea scrolls in 1947, which were unintentionally discovered by a child, and which were all published by 1955. In some cases of a discovery of dinosaur bones by a disinterested person, it was suggested to them by some "professional" in the field to look or dig in a certain area. Also very interesting to note are special areas set aside and designated as dinosaur parks for which amateur dinosaur hunters are required to first obtain a dinosaur hunting license.

Take a look at Dilophosaurus Discovered and the discovery of Haddonfield's Dinosaur for some idea as to how this may have occurred.
Also, a multitude of bones and dinosaurs are strangely found in the same place, suggesting possible planting of bones. The following three paragraphs are from The Seizure of Sue the T. rex.

"The Larsons are still working this find, which they called the Ruth Mason Quarry. The find contained the remains of at least two thousand beasts. There is only speculation as to the reason so many bones were in one place. The river system could have transported the bones a few at a time to a sandy coast at the edge of a receding Cretaceous sea. Or a great storm could have trapped and drowned a herd on a spit of land. A preponderance of the fossils were of Emontosaurus annectens a duckbilled dinosaur which migrated in flocks. Various carnivores teeth, including that of T. rex, were also found at the site, which could simply mean that these beasts were scavenging the remains. 'We're only guessing', said Pete."

"In July, 1990, Maurice Williams, who had a ranch nearby, came by the quarry. He was fascinated by work, and offered to let the paleontologists search for fossils on his land. Pete told him he appreciated the offer and would do so at the earliest opportunity. On the morning of August 12, the team suffered a flat tire. Their spare was low and the pump was broken. Most of the crew decided to take the tires to Faith in another vehicle for repair. Susan Hendrickson, a Seattle archaeologist and amateur paleontologist who was working with BHIGR that summer, decided to take a hike through Williams' land instead."

"She returned to the quarry several hours later finding the team back at work with three pieces of vertebrae. Pete thought immediately, Tyrannosaurus. The team saddled up and drove to the site she'd discovered, a 60-foot sandstone cliff jutting out of the prairie. At about eye level, a huge femur (thigh bone) protruded, along with several other bones. Pete immediately sought out Williams, who said, I've ridden by that place a hunnerd times. Never saw a thing."
It is unusually coincidental that a "commercial fossil collecting firm" would be the organization to make the dinosaur find. Why was rancher Williams unable to find "Sue" after all his years of ranching? Don't you find this unusual? The article T-Rex bones on sale for a cool $12 million indicates that the business of being a "commercial fossil collecting firm" is potentially very lucrative!

People who work for museums often seem to be the ones associated with the really prolific finds:

A discovery in a remote area of Argentina is described: "In November 1997, Dr. Luis Chiappe and Dr. Lowell Dingus went to Patagonia with an expedition team and discovered a nesting site that contained thousands of dinosaur eggs, including fossilized embryos and fossilized skin. ... The concentration of eggs was so intense and rich that, in an area of roughly 100 yards by 200 yards, we counted about 195 clusters of eggs."

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Are Dinosaurs A Hoax? 28 Mar 2017 18:22 #60

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LOL! :arowdn:

Dinosaur Hoax - Scientists caught faking fossil Archeopteryx




FE / Dinosaurs are fabbed, buried, "discovered", then replicated.



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