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Paranormal is a general term that designates experiences that lie outside "the range of normal experience or scientific explanation" or that indicates phenomena understood to be outside of science's current ability to explain or measure. Read More: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranormal

TOPIC: The Dyatlov Pass Mystery

The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 20 Jun 2018 03:22 #1

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I ran a Truthzone search for "Dyatlov" but nothing came up, so as this is the "Other Mysteries" section I thought I might as well introduce it here and ask if any TZ members have heard of it? it's all over the internet and youtube if you're interested.

Basically 9 young Russian hikers (7 men / 2 women) led by Igor Dyatlov disappeared in the snowbound Urals in early 1959 and searchers later found their abandoned partially-collapsed tent on a mountain slope with cuts in it as if they'd slashed their way out in a panic in subzero conditions, and their lightly-clothed bodies were found at intervals up to a mile away, dead of a combination of hypothermia and severe injuries including broken bones.
Do TZ members have any theories as to what might have happened?
I'm inclined towards the avalanche theory, but the slope was only 18 to 20 degrees, is that enough to trigger an avalanche?
Another theory (my own) is that they were murdered by another hiking group who claimed the Dyatlovs had stolen their wallet at Serov railway station, so they tracked them down to get it back, by violence if necessary.

Below- the tent as found by the searchers in the snow, superimposed on a summer pic with the panicked hikers dash down to the trees marked in red-



Below-The slashed tent as later re-erected at the searchers HQ-
Last Edit: 20 Jun 2018 03:40 by Ugh.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 20 Jun 2018 07:10 #2

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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 20 Jun 2018 14:28 #3

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Lux Interior wrote:
From the link- Scientists have identified a naturally occurring phenomenon called infrasound. Just as wind moving over sand dunes can produce perceptible humming, wind colliding with topographic features can produce low-frequency waves ranging from audible to sub-audible. Tests of infrasound on subjects have induced powerful feelings of nausea, panic, dread, chills, nervousness, raised heartbeat rate and breathing difficulties. Scientists believe the ridge below which the tent was located might have generated vortices producing audible and sub-audible infrasound on a windy night such as that of 1-2 February 1959.

Yes infrasound is one of many interesting theories, but doesn't explain the severe injuries on the bodies, for example one of the women had a missing tongue.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 20 Jun 2018 16:15 #4

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I watched this video some weeks ago, their channel is interesting, though pretty mainstream (they believe JFK died, etc.):



1959, somewhere in the middle of nowhere in the Soviet Union, can be anything; from local tribes hating intruders to a complete hoax... Interesting case.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 20 Jun 2018 17:48 #5

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Gaia wrote:
I watched this video some weeks ago, their channel is interesting, though pretty mainstream (they believe JFK died, etc.):

Yeah... JFK spent the rest of his life living on a tropical island wearing disguises so no-one could recognize him ey? :yerright:
Last Edit: 20 Jun 2018 23:49 by novum.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 20 Jun 2018 21:04 #6

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Gaia wrote:
..1959, somewhere in the middle of nowhere in the Soviet Union, can be anything; from local tribes hating intruders to a complete hoax... Interesting case.

Yes mate you make a good point about local tribes being involved, the ones in the area of the incident were the Mansi, but the general consensus is that they were apparently a peaceful people.
The Dyatlov group came upon some Mansi structures and photographed them (below), the top pic shows 3 of the group examining Mansi wooden crosses used for drying fish, and the bottom pic is a platform for storing killed game.
However suppose the structures also had a Mansi religious significance (for example perhaps they were on a burial ground), and perhaps the Mansi were furious at the Dyatlovs for "desecrating" them?




Last Edit: 20 Jun 2018 21:04 by Ugh.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 20 Jun 2018 21:20 #7

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Ugh wrote:
Gaia wrote:
..1959, somewhere in the middle of nowhere in the Soviet Union, can be anything; from local tribes hating intruders to a complete hoax... Interesting case.

Yes mate you make a good point about local tribes being involved, the ones in the area of the incident were the Mansi, but the general consensus is that they were apparently a peaceful people.
The Dyatlov group came upon some Mansi structures and photographed them (below), the top pic shows 3 of the group examining Mansi wooden crosses used for drying fish, and the bottom pic is a platform for storing killed game.
However suppose the structures also had a Mansi religious significance (for example perhaps they were on a burial ground), and perhaps the Mansi were furious at the Dyatlovs for "desecrating" them?





Yes, that's a good possibility. Those nomadic peoples of the region were peaceful (as that is the best survival strategy, especially in -such- hostile natural environments), but also have a long history of domination by the Russian statists. Since Peter "the great", those tribes have been submitted and exposed to alien rulers and with the Soviet Union a new sickening ideology entered their lands.

It's a fascinating piece of quite recent history to be explored further. Good you opened the thread.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 20 Jun 2018 22:17 #8

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Gaia wrote:
..It's a fascinating piece of quite recent history to be explored further..

Yes, despite the Dyatlov's leaving plenty of clues in their diaries, and documenting their exact route, and taking plenty of photos along the way, the mystery still remains unsolved 59 years later!
They were all highly-experienced well-organised hikers, and nobody can explain why they slashed their way out of the tent and bolted down to the trees-




This book is a good one, author McCloskey has visited the scene and is planning another trip there later this year-



Summary of some possible explanations-
Avalanche
Military accident (weapon testing gone wrong)
Murder by another hiking group who claimed the Dyatlovs had stolen their wallet
Murder by local Mansi tribesmen
Murder by escaped prisoners
Natural 'infrasound' phenomenon panicked them
Murder by Russian Special Forces (after witnessing top-secret experiments)
Fire (or fumes) in the tent
The Dyatlovs fought among themselves and killed each other
Bears or wolves killed them
UFO's were involved
Yetis and Trolls got them
The supernatural 'Golden Woman of the Urals' emerged from her lair to kill them.
They accidentally ate "magic mushrooms" which addled their brains.
Last Edit: 20 Jun 2018 22:18 by Ugh.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 21 Jun 2018 00:23 #9

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Ugh wrote:
Lux Interior wrote:
From the link- Scientists have identified a naturally occurring phenomenon called infrasound. Just as wind moving over sand dunes can produce perceptible humming, wind colliding with topographic features can produce low-frequency waves ranging from audible to sub-audible. Tests of infrasound on subjects have induced powerful feelings of nausea, panic, dread, chills, nervousness, raised heartbeat rate and breathing difficulties. Scientists believe the ridge below which the tent was located might have generated vortices producing audible and sub-audible infrasound on a windy night such as that of 1-2 February 1959.

Yes infrasound is one of many interesting theories, but doesn't explain the severe injuries on the bodies, for example one of the women had a missing tongue.

Missing? Bitten off? Partially or wholly cut out? Swallowed? Without further details all is speculation. Cracked bones with no external bruising doesn't suggest being beaten.
If they were surrounded by a mob why go outside semi naked via cutting a hole in the tent?
I'm leaning towards the mass hysteria side of things here.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 21 Jun 2018 00:28 #10

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Lux Interior wrote:
why go outside semi naked via cutting a hole in the tent?

Hypothermia can cause that; where you do exactly the opposite of what you should do; taking your clothes off and freeze to death.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothermia#Paradoxical_undressing
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 21 Jun 2018 00:31 #11

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I'm in a tent by the woods and a lake right now. No secret weapons test g going on but then that's what secrets are.
Anyway, I digress, so this is erring towards natural phenomena then?
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 21 Jun 2018 00:35 #12

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Lux Interior wrote:
I'm in a tent by the woods and a lake right now. No secret weapons test g going on but then that's what secrets are.
Anyway, I digress, so this is erring towards natural phenomena then?
Nice, enjoy.

There are so many options, that makes these kind of cases fascinating.

Did quite some "sleuthing" back at that forum, many stories are similarly intruiging.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 21 Jun 2018 12:46 #13

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So here's my thoughts just based on what's here, mostly the map and the video...

The reason they cut the tent from the inside was to get something large and awkward out knowing they were going to permanently abandon the camp. This could have been a kit sledge or some such, but it seems possible to me that it could have even been ill/immobile/unconscious/dead members of the group. Anyway, the situation mean't they couldn't afford the time/energy to pack up.

Given that one body was in the creek, 3 right next to it and the others scattered between it and the abandoned camp it seems that the creek was the intended or natural escape route. Maybe they were going to build a raft to transport injured/ill members of the group and/or bulky kit?

In icy conditions accidents are a distinct possibility and the broken leg and ribs could be explained by slipping when carrying heavy kit or indeed timber? Compression injuries seem more likely from heavy timber falling onto individuals (maybe when pulling broken limbs out of trees)? Alternatively could they have been from a fall (perhaps out of the tree)? Maybe they were just sheltering under the tree and some branches gave way under the snow's weight and a whole bunch of them were injured?

So maybe a panic as the most experienced members of the group were suddenly in need of urgent medical care. Previous sanctuaries/protocols were abandoned, perhaps by those with less experience or already suffering somewhat from exposure, a lack of energy and possibly other influence (shock seems more likely than infrasound)? Anyway, the rapid escalation mean't they were unable to record what happened or their plans (the usual record keeper(s) were flat out).

From the map it looks like the Yuri's and Lyudmila may have been the victims of the broken branches and didn't get significant distance from the tree. Possibly Zina, Rustem and Igor were ferrying things from the camp to the woods and were just exhausted? Alternatively, could they of already been in bad shape in the camp and were assisted away by the group towards the wood/creek, but didn't make it that far? They gradually had to abandon them, perhaps as they expired (or became an unbearable burden to the declining group).

The cold being the primary concern rather than sentimentality or contagion, anything useful (and not too energy intensive to retrieve) was taken off abandoned bodies, notably the outer clothing.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 21 Jun 2018 13:33 #14

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Lux Interior wrote:
Ugh wrote:
Yes infrasound is one of many interesting theories, but doesn't explain the severe injuries on the bodies, for example one of the women had a missing tongue.

Missing? Bitten off? Partially or wholly cut out? Swallowed? Without further details all is speculation. Cracked bones with no external bruising doesn't suggest being beaten.
If they were surrounded by a mob why go outside semi naked via cutting a hole in the tent?
I'm leaning towards the mass hysteria side of things here.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 21 Jun 2018 13:52 #15

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I'm thinking more snow drift collapse than avalanche.

Presumably they would have been in their sleeping bags without their outdoor wear on. Wind chill would have been the major thing. Sadly I'm now thinking the creek was a natural barrier rather than escape route. They went downhill and under the trees to get out of the wind, but couldn't get further than the creek. :(
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 21 Jun 2018 19:29 #16

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Lux Interior wrote:
Missing? Bitten off? Partially or wholly cut out? Swallowed? Without further details all is speculation. Cracked bones with no external bruising doesn't suggest being beaten.
If they were surrounded by a mob why go outside semi naked via cutting a hole in the tent?
I'm leaning towards the mass hysteria side of things here.

1- Possibly, but what made them go hysterical?
2- Lyudmila's tongue was "missing", nobody knows why, check her out on page 74 below, there was blood in her stomach which suggests she was alive when her tongue went missing-
3- For the record, here are all the official autopsy reports-













Last Edit: 21 Jun 2018 19:34 by Ugh.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 21 Jun 2018 21:32 #17

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I have looked at a number of these cases and mostly nature is the number one cause of death in those cases.

Considering the hostile environment here, that seems likely, though I wouldn't rule out upset local tribes.

What is strange is that there is no sign of scavenger attacks (birds, wolves, bears were still in hibernation I think), which would be obvious if you have naked dead flesh in a refrigerating environment lying around.

Other rare, natural phenomena could be lightning bolts, above-ground meteorite explosions (no impact, Tunguska-style) or indeed some infrasound or electromagnetic effect.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 22 Jun 2018 13:07 #18

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monk.link wrote:
I'm thinking more snow drift collapse than avalanche.
Presumably they would have been in their sleeping bags without their outdoor wear on. Wind chill would have been the major thing. Sadly I'm now thinking the creek was a natural barrier rather than escape route. They went downhill and under the trees to get out of the wind, but couldn't get further than the creek. :(

That's a good point and we could even go further and suggest that maybe that after they slashed out of the tent, the avalanche or snowslide carried them all the way down the slope, churning them up like a cement mixer on the way.
This vid of an avalanche turns into a slide later, those heavy chunks of snow would certainly break bones-



A still from the vid-
Last Edit: 22 Jun 2018 13:09 by Ugh.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 22 Jun 2018 13:20 #19

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Gaia wrote:
I have looked at a number of these cases and mostly nature is the number one cause of death in those cases.
Considering the hostile environment here, that seems likely, though I wouldn't rule out upset local tribes.
What is strange is that there is no sign of scavenger attacks (birds, wolves, bears were still in hibernation I think), which would be obvious if you have naked dead flesh in a refrigerating environment lying around.
Other rare, natural phenomena could be lightning bolts, above-ground meteorite explosions (no impact, Tunguska-style) or indeed some infrasound or electromagnetic effect.

Good point, and your animal / tribesmen / natural phenomena suggestions carry even more weight if we speculate that they didn't slash their way out of the tent, but that something slashed its way in such as a hungry bear or freak lightning bolts.
Here's a pic of their tent on an expedition the previous year, they used skis and ski poles and cord to support it, and on a barren mountainslope it might certainly have acted as a "lightning magnet"-



Below: This is a final pic from the groups camera taken on the fatal night and nobody can explain what it is, it could possibly be a "ball lightning" phenomena of some kind playing around the outside or inside of the tent-

dyatlovpass.com/camera-krivonischenko
Last Edit: 22 Jun 2018 13:32 by Ugh.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 22 Jun 2018 13:42 #20

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monk.link wrote:
So here's my thoughts just based on what's here, mostly the map and the video...
The reason they cut the tent from the inside was to get something large and awkward out knowing they were going to permanently abandon the camp..

Good point, we know they had a big stove in the tent with them, so if they decided they had to get down to the trees in a hurry (for whatever reason), taking the stove would have been a good call to keep warm down there. However searchers found the stove still in the abandoned tent, so after slashing a hole in the tent perhaps the group had second thoughts about taking it down to the trees because it was too heavy, and decided to leave it behind.
Here's a shot of their tent on a previous expedition with the stove pipe sticking out of the tent-




And this is a pic of the tent after searchers re-erected it back at base-
Last Edit: 22 Jun 2018 13:46 by Ugh.
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