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Paranormal is a general term that designates experiences that lie outside "the range of normal experience or scientific explanation" or that indicates phenomena understood to be outside of science's current ability to explain or measure. Read More: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranormal

TOPIC: The Dyatlov Pass Mystery

The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 22 Jun 2018 14:23 #21

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Ugh wrote:
Good point, we know they had a big stove in the tent with them, so if they decided they had to get down to the trees in a hurry (for whatever reason), taking the stove would have been a good call to keep warm down there. However searchers found the stove still in the abandoned tent, so after slashing a hole in the tent perhaps the group had second thoughts about taking it down to the trees because it was too heavy, and decided to leave it behind.
I was wondering what your source was for the stove still being in the tent (and intact)? I'm looking at a theory that there was a small explosion in the tent, which ripped it to shreds and caused the symmetrical internal injuries (consistent with an explosive shockwave). This left them with no choice, but to attempt to make another shelter as they were too afraid to return for their footwear and other essential kit (until it was too late).
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 22 Jun 2018 15:41 #22

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It's weird the way those furthest away from the tent have the worst injuries.
Ugh wrote:
Nikolai (7) basically had half his skull broken in an unusual way without much damage to the external soft tissue. It would have given him concussion, so he couldn't of walked the 1.6km or so from the tent with the injury.
...whatever caused the damage must have happened fairly close to where he died, as he probably would have been unable to make his way from the tent without being carried or dragged. None of the evidence points to any member of the group being carried or dragged by the others.
It's like they built a hide to keep them out of the cold/wind, but also with a defensive lookout with view of the tent, then someone lobed a grenade into the den.
Last Edit: 22 Jun 2018 15:43 by monk.link. Reason: Nikolai (No.7)
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 22 Jun 2018 16:05 #23

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident
At the forest's edge, under a large pine, the searchers found the visible remains of a small fire, along with the first two bodies, those of Krivonischenko and Doroshenko, shoeless and dressed only in their underwear. The branches on the tree were broken up to five metres high, suggesting that one of the skiers had climbed up to look for something, perhaps the camp.

Actually this makes kind of sense. You need to warm up your body using the fire and then cover it with clothes to keep it warm. They were undressed, but it has been reported that the corpses found 2 months later had the clothes of these people on. So they might have had their clothes when they made the fire but then either were stripped from their bodies or they didn't have them on the front, just as a kind of blanket to keep your back warm and then taken by the others.

Climbing the tree naked is impossible with hypothermia and -30, I'd say, so they must have their clothes on then. And another explanation was to gather firewood from the tree instead of roaming around in the long winter nights at 60 degrees North.
Dubinina's tongue was likely removed by scavengers and ordinary predation.

So in 2+ months the scavengers at "Gameless Pass" went for 1 thing only; the tongue of one woman found in a creek? Really, that was the delicatesse for a hungry wolf pack or bird?
On April 12, 2018 the remains of Semyon Zolotarev were exhumated upon the initiative of journalists of the Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda. Contradicting results were obtained: one of experts stated that the character of the injuries resembles a person shot down by a car, and the DNA analysis did not reveal any similarity to the DNA of living relatives. In addition, it turned out that the name of Semyon Zolotarev is not on the list of buried at the Ivanovskoye cemetery.

Hmmm....
In 2000, a regional television company produced the documentary film The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass (Тайна перевала Дятлова). With the help of the film crew, a Yekaterinburg writer, Anna Matveyeva (Russian: Анна Матвеева), published a fiction/documentary novella of the same name. A large part of the book includes broad quotations from the official case, diaries of victims, interviews with searchers and other documentaries collected by the film-makers. [but not the photos?] The narrative line of the book details the everyday life and thoughts of a modern woman (an alter ego of the author herself) who attempts to resolve the case.

Despite its fictional narrative, Matveyeva's book remains the largest source of documentary materials ever made available to the public regarding the incident. In addition, the pages of the case files and other documentaries (in photocopies and transcripts) are gradually being published on a web forum for enthusiastic researchers.

HMMMMMMMMMM.....
by the late 1980s, all Dyatlov files had been released in some manner.

But, why were the photos then coming through an admitted fictional docu/book?
There were wide discrepancies in distances quoted between the two possible locations of the snow shelter where Dubinina, Kolevatov, Zolotarev & Thibault-Brignolles were found. One location was approximately 80 to 100 metres from the cedar tree where the bodies of Doroshenko & Krivonischenko were found and the other suggested location was so close to the cedar tree that anyone in the snow shelter could have spoken to those at the Cedar tree without raising their voices to be heard. This second location also has a rock in the stream where Dubinina’s body was found and is the more likely location of the two. However, the second suggested location of the two has a topography that is closer to the photos taken at the time of the search in 1959.

Hmmm...
Popular interest in Russia was revived in the 1990s in the wake of Gushchin's 1990 novel, The Price of State Secrets Is Nine Lives. In 2000, a regional television company produced the documentary film, with a follow-up novella by Anna Matveyeva. Anna Kiryanova wrote a journal-style novel based on a fictionalized account of the incident in 2005

So how much evidence is there for the alleged events happening before 1990? It may be possible these hikers indeed died, but the story we are getting today is actually not representing the true chain of events. 1959-1990 Soviet propaganda, cover-up and storywriting is a LONG time...

Apparently I am not the first one suggesting this possibility:



If you look at the members of the expedition, it is quite remarkable that:
- the oldest member died on the early morning of his birthday (apparently, according to their journals I guess)
- 3 members of the group have birthdays on January 11, 12 and 13 (1936 and 37). The odds of that are quite astronomical in a group of 9.

Bonus eye candy:

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Last Edit: 22 Jun 2018 16:33 by Gaia.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 22 Jun 2018 19:37 #24

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Her eyes were missing too, scavengers go for them and tongues if accessible.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 22 Jun 2018 22:20 #25

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monk.link wrote:
..I was wondering what your source was for the stove still being in the tent (and intact)? I'm looking at a theory that there was a small explosion in the tent, which ripped it to shreds and caused the symmetrical internal injuries (consistent with an explosive shockwave). This left them with no choice, but to attempt to make another shelter as they were too afraid to return for their footwear and other essential kit (until it was too late).

Good point, an exploding stove would certainly account for the burns found on some of the victims (see the autopsy reports).
In his book 'Mountain of the Dead', author McCloskey says on page 104 that the stove was found to be in the stowed position in the abandoned tent, but of course they could have used it for cooking earlier and even though they'd switched it off, there could have been a delayed-reaction explosion or fireball.
It was home made thing built by Igor Dyatlov.
Interestingly on page 28 we read that according to the groups diary, a "terrible argument broke out" at a previous campsite on the trip because "no-one wanted to sleep by the stove".
So perhaps the stove had a reputation for being dangerous.
Last Edit: 22 Jun 2018 22:21 by Ugh.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 22 Jun 2018 22:38 #26

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monk.link wrote:
It's weird the way those furthest away from the tent have the worst injuries.

Yes, and bodies 2/3/4 were found lying with their heads pointing back towards the tent, as if they'd made one last effort to get back to it, but died of cold on the way.
Last Edit: 22 Jun 2018 22:40 by Ugh.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 22 Jun 2018 22:50 #27

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Gaia wrote:
..it is quite remarkable that:
- the oldest member died on the early morning of his birthday (apparently, according to their journals I guess)
- 3 members of the group have birthdays on January 11, 12 and 13 (1936 and 37). The odds of that are quite astronomical in a group of 9.

Yes that's another spooky aspect of the incident as if there are not enough already..:)
And speaking of spooky, this is a pic of some of the group at a hut en route to the Mountain of the Dead; that's Igor Dyatlov himself in the centre, but who- or what- is that thing circled?

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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 22 Jun 2018 23:01 #28

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monk.link wrote:
..It's like they built a hide to keep them out of the cold/wind, but also with a defensive lookout with view of the tent, then someone lobed a grenade into the den.

Yes searchers examine this hide which was scooped out by some (but not all) of the hikers, including remains of a fire.
A non-shrapnel percussion-type grenade which kills by blast would certainly explain their internal injuries, but that raises the question as to who would want to lob one at them, and why?

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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 22 Jun 2018 23:14 #29

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Interesting thread and lots of interesting points made by all. I first read about this incident about eight years ago. Back then, from what I've read, this Pass was kinda known for it's mysterious "bright globes of light" as the town folk called them?

Could the hikers have witnessed some sort of secret military test on that slop and paid for it with their lives?

At the bottom of the page of this link.....

www.bizarrepedia.com/dyatlov-pass/

there is what's claimed too be, the last picture taken by the group?
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Last Edit: 23 Jun 2018 00:40 by peacenik.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 22 Jun 2018 23:33 #30

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peacenik wrote:
Interesting thread and lots of interesting points made by all. I first read about this incident about eight years ago. Back then from what read, this Pass was kinda known for it's mysterious bright globes as the town folk called them.

Yes, the local tribes name for the mountain is 'Kholat Syakhl' which translates as "Dead Mountain" because of the lack of game for hunting there.
It raises the question as to why does game avoid it?

WIKI- Kholat Syakhl, a transliteration in Russian meaning "Dead Mountain" in Mansi.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kholat_Syakhl
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 22 Jun 2018 23:46 #31

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Ugh wrote:
peacenik wrote:
Interesting thread and lots of interesting points made by all. I first read about this incident about eight years ago. Back then from what read, this Pass was kinda known for it's mysterious bright globes as the town folk called them.

Yes, the local tribes name for the mountain is 'Kholat Syakhl' which translates as "Dead Mountain" because of the lack of game for hunting there.
It raises the question as to why does game avoid it?

WIKI- Kholat Syakhl, a transliteration in Russian meaning "Dead Mountain" in Mansi.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kholat_Syakhl

That's a good point. I remember in my military years there was a conspicuous lack of game to be found, in or near military testing and bomb sites.
Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point.” ~ Chuang Tzu
Last Edit: 23 Jun 2018 00:43 by peacenik.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 23 Jun 2018 00:32 #32

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Ugh wrote:
Gaia wrote:
..it is quite remarkable that:
- the oldest member died on the early morning of his birthday (apparently, according to their journals I guess)
- 3 members of the group have birthdays on January 11, 12 and 13 (1936 and 37). The odds of that are quite astronomical in a group of 9.

Yes that's another spooky aspect of the incident as if there are not enough already..:)
And speaking of spooky, this is a pic of some of the group at a hut en route to the Mountain of the Dead; that's Igor Dyatlov himself in the centre, but who- or what- is that thing circled?


It looks like someone sitting on the ground behind the table, but I don't know.

But looking at the photo I have another point; not only didn't they wear much clothing, but also no (woollen/Russian) hats... That would be the first and easiest to grab and at least keeps you a bit warmer, as you lose a lot of heat through your head. In cold conditions camping I slept with my woollen hat on, like many others do too.

This video concludes a similar hypothesis as monk.ink, that the stove was the culprit and they kind of asphixiated and cut holes in the tent, but then needed to go outside for fresh air. The slow, calm footsteps would be indicative of no panic anymore.

What that doesn't explain however, is that after breathing fresh air outside and taking a moment to think straight, they didn't pack up the necessary stuff from the tent, including parts that could be used to improvise a new shelter and only then started walking towards the forest.....



Also, if this hypothesis would be correct, why walk away from a heat source and not stay close to it with fresh air around you...

The timespan between 2 and 20 February in such conditions is very long. It is said they all died 6 to 8 hours after having their last meal, but it is unclear what kind of meal. There was still food in the tent. Which also doesn't sound like scavengers, only targeting that woman with the eyes and tongue removed, but not touching anything else there? Not credible; wolves can smell very well.

Another strange thing is how it is possible that that woman "lying face down in a stream" can only have been found in May, at 75 m from the forest... it would be the first to check downstream in a search party effort, even with a (partially) frozen creek.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 23 Jun 2018 23:41 #33

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Gaia wrote:
..not only didn't they wear much clothing, but also no (woollen/Russian) hats... That would be the first and easiest to grab and at least keeps you a bit warmer, as you lose a lot of heat through your head. In cold conditions camping I slept with my woollen hat on, like many others do too.

This video concludes a similar hypothesis as monk.ink, that the stove was the culprit and they kind of asphixiated and cut holes in the tent, but then needed to go outside for fresh air. The slow, calm footsteps would be indicative of no panic anymore.
What that doesn't explain however, is that after breathing fresh air outside and taking a moment to think straight, they didn't pack up the necessary stuff from the tent, including parts that could be used to improvise a new shelter and only then started walking towards the forest..

Yes, in my camping days (even on warm summer nights) I always wore a balaclava and slept fully clothed in my sleeping bag (apart from shoes) because I felt more snug and secure that way out in the middle of nowhere, yet apparently the 9 Dyatlovs stripped off to their undies to kip under their blankets, so when they had to flee partially-clothed in subzero temperatures they were signing their own death warrants.
And another puzzling aspect (as if there aren't enough already) is that when searchers found the abandoned tent, they noticed that clothes were strewn around outside-
'Mountain of the Dead', page 60- "Approximately 30-50ft (1-15 m) away from the tent were found shoes, socks and Igor Dyatlov's fur jacket which were lying in the snow. A weatherproof jacket also lay nearby."

At this point let me mention the 10th member of the Dyatlov group, Yuri Yudin, he left the group prematurely en route with illness and lived to a ripe old age, but even he had no solid explanation what happened to his 9 friends apart from suggesting that the military had been involved-

News item 2013- "Yuri Yudin, who has died aged 75, was the only surviving member of a party of Russian students who perished in mysterious circumstances in 1959 in what became known as the Dyatlov Pass Incident.
..he..rose to become an administrator in the Solikamsk Perm region of Russia. He always felt that the Soviet military had probably been responsible in some way.
In an interview last year [2012] he recalled that he had been asked to identify the owner of everything found at the scene, but had failed to find a match for a piece of cloth that seemed to be of military origin, or for a pair of glasses, a pair of skis and a piece of a ski, leading him to suspect that the military had found the tent before the volunteer rescuers.
"If I had a chance to ask God just one question, it would be, 'What really happened to my friends that night?’ Yudin said."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/10026000/Yuri-Yudin.html
Last Edit: 23 Jun 2018 23:46 by Ugh.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 24 Jun 2018 04:23 #34

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Regarding the orbs in the last pic taken by the Dyatlov's (see post #19), it leads me to speculate that it may have been some kind of multiple ball lightning bolts attracted by the tent poles and metal stove, and exploding in and around the tent, causing the injuries and shredding the tent. If that's what happened, no wonder they fled in panic-

WIKI- "Ball lightning is an unexplained and potentially dangerous atmospheric electrical phenomenon. The term refers to reports of luminous, spherical objects that vary from pea-sized to several meters in diameter. Though usually associated with thunderstorms, the phenomenon lasts considerably longer than the split-second flash of a lightning bolt. Many early reports claim that the ball eventually explodes, sometimes with fatal consequences, leaving behind the odor of sulfur."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning

Here's a photoshop image I created to illustrate the scenario-

Last Edit: 24 Jun 2018 04:42 by Ugh.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 25 Jun 2018 14:58 #35

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Let me bring the 'Yeti' theory into the thread.
Apart from some of the group keeping diaries, they also wrote in their "newspaper diary" called the "Evening Otorten"-
"We now know that Snowmen exist" (p 115 of McCloskey's book 'Mountain of the Dead')

But they apparently made no other reference besides that single sentence.
Perhaps they saw the "creatures" far off in the distance and weren't sure what they were, animal or human.
It could possibly explain why they went slightly off their planned route to try to give them the slip, whatever they were-
MOTD p 31/32 "..they appear to have lost their way and ended up on the eastern slope of Kholat Syakhl ('Mountain of the Dead') rather than Mount Otorten..as they had originally intended...Mount Otorten lay 9 miles (15km) directly to the north of where they were."
Last Edit: 25 Jun 2018 15:05 by Ugh.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 25 Jun 2018 16:24 #36

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Ugh wrote:
Gaia wrote:
..not only didn't they wear much clothing, but also no (woollen/Russian) hats... That would be the first and easiest to grab and at least keeps you a bit warmer, as you lose a lot of heat through your head. In cold conditions camping I slept with my woollen hat on, like many others do too.

This video concludes a similar hypothesis as monk.ink, that the stove was the culprit and they kind of asphixiated and cut holes in the tent, but then needed to go outside for fresh air. The slow, calm footsteps would be indicative of no panic anymore.
What that doesn't explain however, is that after breathing fresh air outside and taking a moment to think straight, they didn't pack up the necessary stuff from the tent, including parts that could be used to improvise a new shelter and only then started walking towards the forest..


Yes, in my camping days (even on warm summer nights) I always wore a balaclava and slept fully clothed in my sleeping bag (apart from shoes) because I felt more snug and secure that way out in the middle of nowhere, yet apparently the 9 Dyatlovs stripped off to their undies to kip under their blankets, so when they had to flee partially-clothed in subzero temperatures they were signing their own death warrants.
And another puzzling aspect (as if there aren't enough already) is that when searchers found the abandoned tent, they noticed that clothes were strewn around outside-
'Mountain of the Dead', page 60- "Approximately 30-50ft (1-15 m) away from the tent were found shoes, socks and Igor Dyatlov's fur jacket which were lying in the snow. A weatherproof jacket also lay nearby."
I think the girls draped half naked in the snow is the Hollywood effect. Zina was found with 2 hats on and several layers over her underwear. It was only the guys under the cedar that had apparently been undressed post-mortem by those scavenging for more layers. I believe this is where some unused items were also found. I recall reading something about torn off cuffs (too long)?


Book Cover vs Contents
When her body was found Zina was wearing two hats, a long sleeved shirt, a sweater, a second shirt and a second sweater with torn cuffs... In addition she was wearing trousers, cotton athletic pants, ski pants (with three small holes in the bottom), three pairs of socks and a military mask, but was not wearing any footwear.
No outer footwear, but the inner 2 pairs of socks were thin, while the outer thick, woollen, with insoles.
Luda was wearing two sweaters, two shirts - one with long sleeves, one with short sleeves, underwear, long socks plus two pairs of shorter socks and another single sock, plus a small hat. She was not wearing any footwear and in an attempt to protect her feet had cut a sweater in half and wrapped one half around her left foot. The other half of the sweater was found lying in the snow.
It doesn't mention that she was wearing 2 pairs of trousers, the outer badly damaged by fire and ripped.
Last Edit: 25 Jun 2018 19:11 by monk.link. Reason: cover v content
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 26 Jun 2018 01:36 #37

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monk.link wrote:
Zina was found with 2 hats on and several layers over her underwear. It was only the guys under the cedar that had apparently been undressed post-mortem by those scavenging for more layers. I believe this is where some unused items were also found. I recall reading something about torn off cuffs (too long)?.

Yes, as their friends died around them one by one, it seems the survivors stripped them of as much clothing as they could, sometimes using knives to help cut it off.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 26 Jun 2018 22:43 #38

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There are some pretty gruesome photos here.
www.thescarechamber.com/what-happened-on-dyatlov-pass/

I think that Luda was killed by being slammed against the rock she was found slumped against. Basically the rock stopped her direction of forceful travel. The cause of death was a damaged heart, but the entire rib cage was broken in a symmetrical pattern. Also her face was mashed against the rock damaging particularly her nose and jaw (some missing).

Probably at the same time (or very shortly after) she was covered in snow. Over the following months the snow melted and she was face down in the melt stream over the rock. This stripped all the soft tissue of the damaged face including: eyes, cheeks, lips, chin and inside of mouth. Even the hairline receded.
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 26 Jun 2018 22:51 #39

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What has puzzled me is how the tent only had a light covering of snow and the footprints away from it were apparently still detectable (weeks later), but only to a certain distance. Yet the bodies near the Den were covered in a much deeper layer making them difficult to find (even by locals, months later). Some have suggested an Avalanche.



If you look at the map, you can see the contours are more spread where the tent is pitched, but quite close immediately North and to the SW. However, the closest are in the vicinity of the cedar (immediately N & E). So maybe there was an Avalanche (or series of small Avalanches) localised to the ravine area?

I can imagine this spooking them and making them want to investigate, but I'm still not sure why that would necessitate cutting your way out of the tent and leaving your boots and overcoats behind?
Last Edit: 26 Jun 2018 22:55 by monk.link. Reason: boots
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The Dyatlov Pass Mystery 27 Jun 2018 04:01 #40

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monk.link wrote:
What has puzzled me is how the tent only had a light covering of snow and the footprints away from it were apparently still detectable (weeks later), but only to a certain distance. Yet the bodies near the Den were covered in a much deeper layer making them difficult to find (even by locals, months later). Some have suggested an Avalanche.

Yes, they pitched their tent on Feb 1st and searchers found it almost 4 weeks later on Feb 26th, and the first bodies were found the next day on Feb 27th, and the last bodies were found another 9 weeks later on May 4th, so over that period further snowfalls and high winds might have caused some drifting making the snow pile up in some places in the general area more than others, and covering some footprints.
This is one of the Dyatlovs final pics showing them scooping out a place in the snow to pitch their tent up on the slope, it looks fairly deepish-



Below- Here's a pic taken by author Keith McCloskey during his visit to the location, the red flags mark the site of the tent, and the trees in the background at the bottom of the slope almost a mile away are where the group fled to.
I see there are small boulders and rocky outcrops in the vicinity, so if the group were swept along by an avalanche it could explain their severe injuries as they were rolled and tumbled over the rocks-


Below: looking up the slope-


Below: re-enacting the route of the Dyatlov groups dash from the tent down to the trees-

www.dyatlov-pass-incident.com/visit-to-the-dyatlov-pass/memorial-rock-and-location-of-tent/
Last Edit: 27 Jun 2018 04:45 by Ugh.
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