MrAnderson wrote:
Truthspoon wrote:
Again, the Muslim world are the victims of foreign machinations, they didn't even get the chance to progress and be allowed to be free. That's honestly how I see it. I cannot convince myself into believing that these people are the bad guys because they're not and I've spent A LOT of time here in these countries.
I appreciate what you are saying and having listened to many speakers from those nations who say similar things I tend to agree
I'm friends with a man from Lebanon who is fascinated with Celtic art and history , we have had some good long chats about whats going on in the world and I once said to him the majority of us over here don't want war with Islam or the people of the middle east
I said if you speak to most of us we are apologetic on behalf of what our stupid leaders have done especially after 9/11
But in response he said it is not that which fuels the divide between us , that we are both as bad as each other because in his part of the world they are teaching each other from birth that they are at war with us until we submit to Islam
He wants to be a photographer but all ways comes into contact with people of his kin who tell him thats Haram and he shouldn't be doing it , just taking pictures man
This cycle of religious fundamentalism is the same cycles the western world went through , shifting from enlightenment back to fundamentalism within generations and all ways its the average Joe that suffers , all ways
And now thanks to the (( bastards )) who wormed their way into positions of power in our nations we are expected to live side by side with an ideology that has not had the same moment of understanding that has happened in the western nations
We are somehow expected to shift our cultural norms to accommodate this ...
We even have institutions set up in the west to push the burka as a normal thing and a choice of women and children to wear
When really it's anything but and it does represent one of the huge chasms that exists between the mind sets here
When Ceasar went to Britain one of the people who put up a huge fight was Queen Boudica
that was 2000 years ago man just one Queen of many at the time
we have been on a different trajectory as people for a long , long time and now we are being asked to come together and find common ground before we have even got to the point where we understand who we even are and why
it's not going to go very well is it
and I think asking people of an Islamic mind set to live among the people their book tells them are the epitome of evil is only going to create resentment on both sides to be fair
I think it creates a reactionary existence in itself , as in , it's easier to get fundamentalist behavior on the go when there is living proof in front of them of all the bad things their book tells them is bad etc etc
it's going to be easier to get slow minded people on board with some crazy shit because they are surrounded by things their slow mind is taught are evil
not good
Most of the Muslims I've spoken to realise that the people who control the world's government, including their own, have their own agendas and there's little to nothing they can do about it. The poor Muslims I met in Egypt in particular anticipated war and felt no fear, not because they wanted it, but because their lives could not get any worse or more difficult. Death for them would be a better alternative than living the daily endless struggle to survive which is the reality of most people in Egypt.
I've never met any religious nutters, all Muslims however believe in God of course, and they believe in the Quran at least nominally, but they don't externalise it's precepts, so most Muslims must at least have an understanding that perhaps God doesn't actually want them to kill Christians and Jews.
The problem is the Muslims who don't quite understand that distinction, and believe that God wants them to kill Christians and Jews.
I believe humans are fundamentally good, because nature creates things to work within its own system.
It takes a lot to make a person bad. Years of neglect and abuse, trauma pain etc. Do you see what I mean?
Even if there are mixed messages in Islam and the Quran I believe the normal Muslim would rationalise these in his own inner spiritual sense to see the best in other people.
Because the Quran is very much about mixed messages, and there is the possibility of interpreting it to suit your own wishes.
And since most Muslims are genuinely good people, like most people in the world, then they will selectively choose the 'better' parts of the Quran, and mentally edit out the more negative and muderous stuff in their own interpretation of being a Muslim.