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TOPIC: Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun.

Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 06 Jan 2017 22:56 #1

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Japanese company replaces workers with artificial intelligence

A Japanese company is making 34 employees redundant in order to replace them with IBM’s Watson Explorer AI.

Human workers at*Fukoku Mutual Life Insurance are set to be replaced by an artificial intelligence that can calculate payouts to policyholders.

After the 200m yen ($1.7M) AI system is installed this month, the company believes productivity will be increased by 30 per cent and that it would save about 140m yen ($1.2M) a year.

Read More: www.msn.com/en-us/money/technologyinvesting/japanese-company-replaces-workers-with-artificial-intelligence/ar-BBxXsvX?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 06 Jan 2017 22:58 #2

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I wonder how economies are going to work in the future when humans have been put out of the employment loop on a scale we have not seen before due to AI and robotics.

The more robots replace humans, the call for a "Univeral Basic Income" will become louder.

This is something Milton Friedman proposed, but he called it a "Negative Income Tax".

Hayek was onboard also.
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 06 Jan 2017 23:23 #3

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novum wrote:
Japanese company replaces workers with artificial intelligence

A Japanese company is making 34 employees redundant in order to replace them with IBM’s Watson Explorer AI.

Human workers at*Fukoku Mutual Life Insurance are set to be replaced by an artificial intelligence that can calculate payouts to policyholders.

After the 200m yen ($1.7M) AI system is installed this month, the company believes productivity will be increased by 30 per cent and that it would save about 140m yen ($1.2M) a year.

Read More: www.msn.com/en-us/money/technologyinvesting/japanese-company-replaces-workers-with-artificial-intelligence/ar-BBxXsvX?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

From the article:
"The artificial intelligence system is based on IBM’s Watson Explorer, which, according to the tech firm, has "cognitive technology that can think like a human" and can analyse and interpret data, "including unstructured text, images, audio and video".

All they needed was a recording stating in Japanese that your claim is not covered by your policy.

To the serious side:
I'm surprised that it's only just now that this is happening. All claims adjusters have been are an interface between the customer and the computer.

Over the centuries many of the menial jobs have been automated.
I recall reading an article from long ago where a farrier was complaining how his business was going to be ruined by the advent of automobiles. Most farriers became mechanics.
There are hundreds of thousands of examples of people being replaced by machines in industry. It's called efficient use of resources.
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 07 Jan 2017 04:38 #4

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You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 07 Jan 2017 04:39 #5

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Is google skynet? :hahano:
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 07 Jan 2017 04:54 #6

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:wissl:
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 07 Jan 2017 14:54 #7

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novum wrote:
Japanese company replaces workers with artificial intelligence

A Japanese company is making 34 employees redundant in order to replace them with IBM’s Watson Explorer AI.

Human workers at*Fukoku Mutual Life Insurance are set to be replaced by an artificial intelligence that can calculate payouts to policyholders.

After the 200m yen ($1.7M) AI system is installed this month, the company believes productivity will be increased by 30 per cent and that it would save about 140m yen ($1.2M) a year.

Read More: www.msn.com/en-us/money/technologyinvesting/japanese-company-replaces-workers-with-artificial-intelligence/ar-BBxXsvX?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

Just as we discussed a week ago...

People are the 21st century 'workhorses' who will be replaced by AI and robotics, just as the workhorses got replaced by machinery in the 20th century.

And this article clearly shows that not even officejobs are safe, since they will make programs who can do all the calculations, read documents and probably will even understand what a customer tells them on the phone or mailcorrespondence.

I don't see anything good coming from this.
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 07 Jan 2017 15:33 #8

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The ultraconservative neo-Luddites here seem to worry about their jobs. If you're so simple that your position can be filled by a robot, it's time to educate yourself to something more meaningful and advanced.

A job is not a "right", but simply a piece of work that has to be done. People in 1880 might have been worried that their hand laboured agriculture would be taken over by machines. Did they sit back and profit from statism-sponsored (stolen money) "welfare"? No, they just learned how to operate the machines or went into new employment in other areas.
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 07 Jan 2017 15:37 #9

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novum wrote:
I wonder how economies are going to work in the future when humans have been put out of the employment loop on a scale we have not seen before due to AI and robotics.

The more robots replace humans, the call for a "Univeral Basic Income" will become louder.

This is something Milton Friedman proposed, but he called it a "Negative Income Tax".

Hayek was onboard also.
A "basic income" is a horrible system of state slavery and relies on even higher taxes (more stealing by the governments).

I cannot imagine anarchocapitalists as Friedman and Hayek supporting that idea. They may have worded it differently, else they would support an idea directly contradicting their philosophies.

Do you have some material that shows them agreeing with such a proposal?
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 07 Jan 2017 16:30 #10

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Consider a few of the "safe" jobs that were effected by computers:

Carbon paper manufacturing workers
Typewriter manufacturing workers
Typewriter ribbon manufacturing workers
Typewriter cleaner manufacturing workers
Pencil manufacturing workers
Pen manufacturing workers
Printing press manufacturing workers
Printing press type manufacturing workers
Typesetters
Printing press operators
Doctors who specialized in carpal tunnel syndrome
etc.
etc.
etc.

Yet here we sit, behind our monitors, using those very same computers to lament on how they have effected jobs.

Where is the compassion for the displaced workers?
Have we no shame?
We all owe reparations.
Last Edit: 07 Jan 2017 16:31 by Guessed.
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 07 Jan 2017 21:48 #11

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Gaia wrote:
A "basic income" is a horrible system of state slavery and relies on even higher taxes (more stealing by the governments).

I cannot imagine anarchocapitalists as Friedman and Hayek supporting that idea. They may have worded it differently, else they would support an idea directly contradicting their philosophies.

Do you have some material that shows them agreeing with such a proposal?

In economics, a negative income tax (NIT) is a progressive income tax system where people earning below a certain amount receive supplemental pay from the government instead of paying taxes to the government.

Such a system has been discussed by economists but never fully implemented. It was described by British politician Juliet Rhys-Williams in the 1940s[1] and later by United States free-market economist Milton Friedman.[2][3][4]

Negative income taxes can implement a basic income or supplement a guaranteed minimum income system.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax


...

Hayek also wrote that the state can play a role in the economy, and specifically, in creating a "safety net". He wrote, "There is no reason why, in a society which has reached the general level of wealth ours has, the first kind of security should not be guaranteed to all without endangering general freedom; that is: some minimum of food, shelter and clothing, sufficient to preserve health.

In the 1973 Law, Legislation, and Liberty, Hayek wrote:

There is no reason why in a free society government should not assure to all, protection against severe deprivation in the form of an assured minimum income, or a floor below which nobody need descend. To enter into such an insurance against extreme misfortune may well be in the interest of all; or it may be felt to be a clear moral duty of all to assist, within the organised community, those who cannot help themselves. So long as such a uniform minimum income is provided outside the market to all those who, for any reason, are unable to earn in the market an adequate maintenance, this need not lead to a restriction of freedom, or conflict with the Rule of Law.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Hayek
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 08 Jan 2017 05:17 #12

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Gaia wrote:
The ultraconservative neo-Luddites here seem to worry about their jobs. If you're so simple that your position can be filled by a robot, it's time to educate yourself to something more meaningful and advanced.

A job is not a "right", but simply a piece of work that has to be done. People in 1880 might have been worried that their hand laboured agriculture would be taken over by machines. Did they sit back and profit from statism-sponsored (stolen money) "welfare"? No, they just learned how to operate the machines or went into new employment in other areas.

If you think about the fact that hundreds of millions of ppl will eventually be put out of their jobs due to AI and robotics, then they will also come for those few other jobs out there. Next thing you know you have tens of millions of ppl suddenly starting to study geography to get some bread on the plate. Think you still would have your fancy little job by then?

Really starting to wonder where you did get your education, as it seems your braincapacity is very poor.
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 08 Jan 2017 15:05 #13

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When the first photocopy shop opened on our campus that was like the invention of moveable type.
Man they were BUSY.
Long gone now.
I remember when the first computers were delivered as well.
Deliver guy says to the receptionist...
Where do you want these two computers?
She says..
"What is a computer?"
Delivery guy says..
"It is a sorta typewriter with a little green telly on top of it."
Receptionist..
"Leave them here, they must be for the typists ."
They were actually for the Chancellor and Vice Chancellor cos they each cost about 50 thousand pounds.
When I retired our staffrooms were like call centres. We all had a massive flat screen monitor and blue tooth keypad plus an iPad each and a spiffy phone.
They promised us the 'paperless office' when in actual fact, all that tech did was to generate more work and more paper. For and from us humans.
In 1985 all our timetables were done each year by one lass in admin with a pencil and a clipboard plus a big 'Chinagraph pencil' handwritten whiteboard-chart on her office wall.
You popped in and looked to be able to see where anybody was at any given time of a day.
When I left timetabling was done by the techie department .
Some 60 people and five managers occupying a whole floor.
Timetables were seldom right and in order to find anybody you had either phone the person and ask where s/he was or go looking for them because most people turn off their phones when they are teaching.
More tech = More work.
IMO
Last Edit: 08 Jan 2017 15:20 by GMP.
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 08 Jan 2017 15:18 #14

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Flare wrote:
If you think about the fact that hundreds of millions of ppl will eventually be put out of their jobs due to AI and robotics, then they will also come for those few other jobs out there. Next thing you know you have tens of millions of ppl suddenly starting to study geography to get some bread on the plate. Think you still would have your fancy little job by then?

Good Lord!
People may seek an education!!!
Oh the horror!!!!!!!
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 08 Jan 2017 15:37 #15

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GMP wrote:
More tech = More work.

To expand on that thought consider the home computer.
Most don't know anything about computers so when they screw it up or want an upgrade they take it to a tech.
Hardware is outdated before it's released so there is a constant market for new components.
OSs are constantly being "upgraded" so there is constant market for code writers.
The advent of wireless superseded the market for wired components and took a whole different set of skills to deal with.
etc., etc.......

It's just different work and people do not like change.
I find it ironic that the same people who advocate for monumental political and social change fear change in their jobs.
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 08 Jan 2017 16:07 #16

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Our old neighbour and MrsGMPs best chum started out as a 'Mainframe Programmer' but her job is now called 'code writer'.
Employers chase her, she has been head hunted loads of times, always for more money.
She mainly works from home too.
Gotta be a good trade.
:)
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 08 Jan 2017 16:23 #17

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This whole "robots are taking over the Earth" narrative has another flaw. People want to interact with other people. Just look at how much resistance the automated phone lines with the stupid menus give.

No surprise those robots are more popular in urban Japan (in a village on the countryside it will be different too. In most parts of the world people are not like the Japanese.

Also a robot is extremely expensive to construct (using rare Earth elements) and will never be as flexible as a real human being. Replacing humans by robots on a large scale will lead to Idiocracy situations that most people don't like anyway, so that won't happen.

And from the viewpoint of the Elites; humans can be taxed (stolen from), robots cannot.
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 08 Jan 2017 17:28 #18

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Gaia wrote:
This whole "robots are taking over the Earth" narrative has another flaw. People want to interact with other people. Just look at how much resistance the automated phone lines with the stupid menus give.

No surprise those robots are more popular in urban Japan (in a village on the countryside it will be different too. In most parts of the world people are not like the Japanese.

Also a robot is extremely expensive to construct (using rare Earth elements) and will never be as flexible as a real human being. Replacing humans by robots on a large scale will lead to Idiocracy situations that most people don't like anyway, so that won't happen.

And from the viewpoint of the Elites; humans can be taxed (stolen from), robots cannot.

There's also the fact that people mine the rare earth elements, design the robots, build the robots, program the robots, advertise the robots, sell the robots, etc., etc.

I have to speak to one of your points though and that is the implication that only humans can be taxed.
I can't speak to how this is internationally but I can speak to what it's like in the U.S.
According to law, corporations are people with the rights and responsibilities of people. For all intents they've been deemed as much an entity as humans. If a factory operated solely by robots produces robots and sells them they are taxable.
Drawn out to its long term possibilities there would be very little use for people.
As the taxes are still realized a "Universal Basic Income" is then possible, maybe even desirable.
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 10 Jan 2017 17:03 #19

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A corporation isn't a person.
I am a person, so are you.
A corporation can be 'treated as a person' at law.
For example a former employee taking a corporation to court citing unfair dismissal.
Under English law the corporation is listed as 'Respondent' thus 'treated as a person' to facilitate the legal process but not actually a person in law.
If an English corporation was a person then that English corporation could claim State Pension.
It cannot.
Because it isn't actually a person.
FMOTLers never quite grasp those facts.
Last Edit: 10 Jan 2017 17:04 by GMP.
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Artificial Intelligence - Robots replacing human workers... it has begun. 10 Jan 2017 19:34 #20

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Under U.S. law:

"Corporations
corporations: an overview

A corporation is a legal entity created through the laws of its state of incorporation. Individual states have the power to promulgate laws relating to the creation, organization and dissolution of corporations. Many states follow the Model Business Corporation Act. (See Minnesota's adoption.) State corporation laws require articles of incorporation to document the corporation's creation and to provide provisions regarding the management of internal affairs. Most state corporation statutes also operate under the assumption that each corporation will adopt bylaws to define the rights and obligations of officers, persons and groups within its structure. States also have registration laws requiring corporations that incorporate in other states to request permission to do in-state business.

There has also been a significant component of Federal corporations law since Congress passed the Securities Act of 1933, which regulates how corporate securities are issued and sold. Federal securities law also governs requirements of fiduciary conduct such as requiring corporations to make full disclosures to shareholders and investors.

The law treats a corporation as a legal "person" that has standing to sue and be sued, distinct from its stockholders. The legal independence of a corporation prevents shareholders from being personally liable for corporate debts. It also allows stockholders to sue the corporation through a derivative suit and makes ownership in the company (shares) easily transferable. The legal "person" status of corporations gives the business perpetual life; deaths of officials or stockholders do not alter the corporation's structure.

Corporations are taxable entities that fall under a different scheme from individuals. Although corporations have a "double tax" problem -- both corporate profits and shareholder dividends are taxed -- corporate profits are taxed at a lower rate than the rates for individuals."

www.law.cornell.edu/wex/corporations

“Corporations have no Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination. On the other hand, the courts have recognized or have assumed that corporations have a First Amendment right to free speech; a Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable searches and seizures; a Fifth Amendment right to due process and protection against double jeopardy; Sixth Amendment rights to counsel, jury trial, speedy trial, and to confront accusers, and to subpoena witnesses; and Eighth Amendment protection against excessive fines.”

fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43293.pdf

"Person

In general usage, a human being; by statute, however, the term can include firms, labor organizations, partnerships, associations, corporations, legal representatives, trustees, trustees in Bankruptcy, or receivers.

A corporation is a "person" for purposes of the constitutional guarantees of equal protection of laws and Due Process of Law."

legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/person

In the U.S. corporations are either alive or dead, they can't just retire and collect a pension.
However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone suggested it and tried to write it into law.
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