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TOPIC: Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense....

Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense.... 28 Nov 2019 23:41 #1

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The following comes from a thread I cannot post in. It is some of the most ignorant tosh I have ever read....
Firestarter wrote:
NASA trolls

No such thing.
claims that the rocks they took back from the moon is genuine, unfakable evidence that astronuts actually walked one the moon is possibly even more ridiculous than those poor quality videos with “amazing” special effects.

That is correct. The rocks are unfakeable. The amazing special effects are because none of you people can explain how it could possibly have been done on Earth!
According to the NASA propaganda, the hundreds of pounds of “moon rocks” brought back are solid evidence that astronauts collected these on the moon.

Nope. According to every one of the thousands of worldwide geologists and petrologists this is solid evidence. There is no propaganda, that is a scurrilous suggestion made by uninformed conspiracy theorists.
Supposedly geologists worldwide have confirmed that these rocks were found on the moon.

Not supposedly…they have done.
If they examined only a couple of grams, why would we believe that the other hundreds of pounds are of the same material?

We wouldn’t. EVERY single rock has been partially or wholly examined. There are copious reports on every sample. The material is not the same, it varies considerably.
They couldn’t verify that these were from the moon by comparing it to the “real thing”, but instead verified if these rocks are from the moon by comparing them to what the official theory is (freemasons are experts at “speculative” theories).

Complete nonsense. They didn’t compare them to anything. They examined them and found…

1. No terrestrial weathering whatsoever, no contamination with atmospheric oxygen, water or nitrogen.
2. Impregnation with solar isotopes impossible to replicate on Earth.
3. No fusion crusts or damage from entry into Earth’s atmosphere.
4. Exterior stronger Helium-3 from SPE’s on the outer few millimetres of many samples – impossible from meteorites.
5. Evidence for formation in lower gravity.
6. Many samples had surface indentations from micro-meteorite bombardment – impossible from meteorite.
7. No water at all except within volcanic beads and apatite crystals.
8. Water isotopes very different to those found on Earth.
9. Nothing whatsoever about any sample is anything other than authentic.

According to some “conspiracy theorists” this common consensus, is controlled by the same powers that control NASA…

A quite ridiculous claim and not even hearsay. The worlds geologists are not affiliated to NASA and that puts a ludicrous number of people in on this crazy hoax!
As for the story that these “moon rocks” couldn’t have been collected on earth…More than 330 meteorites similar to the supposed “moon rocks” have been found on earth.

Yep and every one has or has had a fusion crust of some sort, terrestrial weathering of a significant amount, ZERO zap pits and ZERO stronger external helium-3. They also have very different levels of solar isotopes due to the decay once landed on Earth.
According to NASA

AND the other organisations that collect rocks!!
these “lunar meteorites” actually originate from the moon.

That is the testimony of experts. Correct.
You cannot reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

The funny thing is that such credophiles see themselves as sharp-eyed piercers of the veil, too sophisticated to be taken in by fakery. But they fall for almost anything that feeds into their convictions.
Last Edit: 28 Nov 2019 23:47 by TG.
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Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense.... 28 Nov 2019 23:42 #2

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”Firestarter” wrote:
They explain that these “lunar meteorites” on earth, with that meteoroids strike the Moon every day (fortunately none of the astronauts in their magical space suits were hit...)

This is where you work out the surface area of each astronaut and calculate why something would land in any given area that size in any given time. In short- total bollocks.
that caused some “moon rocks” reach lunar escape velocity of 2.38 km/s (more than 8500 km/h!): meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites.htm

Yep, that was what happened. Incoming at 60kph impacts the surface – easy to eject at escape velocity.
I was surprised to learn that the “moon rocks” sold by NASA for “extraordinary evidence” of the “moon landings” were filled with oxygen: www.sciencenews.org/article/50-years-ago-spacecraft-discovered-oxygen-moon-rocks

They aren’t SOLD, that is a dead link. The “oxygen” is from oxides with the same solar isotope as Earth. This is one reason why the impact formation of the Moon is favoured.
The differences in supposed moon rocks and rocks found on our earth are only slight. They’re so very slight that one could argue that the supposed moon rocks were never found on the moon but found right here on Earth.

Nonsense. They are slight in some rocks more in others. The major differences - there are no compounds formed through terrestrial weathering, no solar isotopes, no external helium-3, no zap pits, no evidence of formation in lower gravity and copious amounts of water!

In January 2019, it was reported that Jeremy Bellucci analysed a rock that the Apollo 14 astronauts in 1971 brought back from the moon. Bellucci and his team found out that it´s highly unlikely that the rock was indeed formed on the moon, but that it makes perfect sense that it instead formed on Earth.

To put this in perspective, Bellucci analysed a clast from a massive rock. The clast was 2 grams in size…THAT was the bit probably ejected from Earth. The rest of the rock weighed in at 9 kilograms!!

www.extremetech.com/extreme/284544-the-astronauts-of-apollo-14-may-have-found-a-piece-of-the-earth-lying-on-the-moon
What makes this discovery even more amazing, is that it has been dated older, 4.011 billion years old, than any rock that has ever been found and analysed on earth...

Yeah. So what. The person who analysed it had no such findings on the other 8.98 kg!
Even if it would be possible for a rock on earth to be ejected from the earth with an escape velocity of 40,270 km/h (!) and landing on the moon, which is even more difficult to believe than rocks reaching an escape velocity of 8500 km/h from the moon, it would still seem impossible, statistically speaking, that an earth rock found on the moon would be older than any rock discovered on earth:

Nonsense. Early formation impacts would be not uncommon and the age of ejecta could very well be older than known Earth rocks due to erosion.
This isn´t the first time that it was discovered that a supposed moon rock, was actually an earth rock...

Oh yes it damn well is!!
In August 2009, it was found out that a moon rock given to former Dutch prime minister Willem Drees by the Apollo 11 astronauts in 1969 was nothing more than petrified wood.

Piss poor reporting….but this time the conspiracy theorist has no problem believing the MSM account!!

The rock was given by the US Ambassador to a former Dutch prime minister. It was a gift that Drees had seen in the US inventory and liked the look of it. It was never given as a Moon rock. It is absolutely ludicrous to suggest that NASA would hand out such a massive rock to a complete nobody, weeks after they brought back such invaluable samples.

On the Goodwill Tour, astronauts handed tiny fragments encased in plastic on mounted wooden presentations with Gold inscriptions. They handed one such fragment to Queen Juliana.

Drees died in 1988, the rock was donated to the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam and put on display: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/space/6105902/Moon-rock-given-to-Holland-by-Neil-Armstrong-and-Buzz-Aldrin-is-fake.html

The whole thing was a balls up by the people who were given the gift. No way was it from NASA…all explained here:


You cannot reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

The funny thing is that such credophiles see themselves as sharp-eyed piercers of the veil, too sophisticated to be taken in by fakery. But they fall for almost anything that feeds into their convictions.
Last Edit: 29 Nov 2019 00:04 by TG.
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Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense.... 28 Nov 2019 23:43 #3

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”Firestarter” wrote:
According to moon landing “conspiracy theorist ” Ralph Rene (unfortunately this part is light on evidence, but the rest of the book is good, especially on the topic radiation):

You have been misinformed. Ralph Rene was actually an imbecile who claimed Pi was incorrect and Archimedes law was wrong! He has as much a clue about space radiation as my cat.
I have been told that Werner Von Braun retrieved two cases of rocks using a U.S. Navy ship in the Antarctic years before the Apollo missions. The shipping labels on the cases said "NASA, Houston, Texas".

Oh…right. Not really the most appalling hearsay at all. And he says what? 842lbs of lunar samples were in the cases and 3m core samples, all verified as authentic by geologists, and what, they couldn’t tell that the rock was a meteorite and had terrestrial weathering and a sodding fusion crust?
Or they could have used rock samples picked up in Antarctica during the intensive exploration of that continent during the International Geophysical Year in 1957, when that continent was extensively explored.

That would all have fusion crusts, terrestrial weathering loads of water, no external zap pits or helium-3 and have solar isotopes that would have decayed by any number of thousands of years since the thing arrived.
Werner Von Braun had Antarctic rocks shipped to NASA.

No he didn’t, but they wouldn’t have fooled even a first grade geologist.
Any strange rock would do if there were no fossils in it.

Pure ignorance, no it wouldn’t.
These rocks could be slowly doled out, but only to those geologists who could be counted on to agree with anything the government said.

Oh right, so they all lied then because of the conspiracaaaaaay. What utter bullshit.
Much of academia can be relied on to do just that!

More bullshit.
Strangely enough, rocks were later found in Antarctica that closely resemble "Moon rocks".

That’s because that is exactly what they are. Meteorites ejected from the moon by large impacting incoming meteorites.
In point of fact

Really? He wants to quote a “fact” now?
some geologists are now positive that these rocks were blasted from the Moon to Earth during immense meteoric impacts.

Nope, not some, all of them.
Previous quote from Ralph

Hearsay from an imbecile – dismissed.
You cannot reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

The funny thing is that such credophiles see themselves as sharp-eyed piercers of the veil, too sophisticated to be taken in by fakery. But they fall for almost anything that feeds into their convictions.
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Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense.... 28 Nov 2019 23:43 #4

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”Firestarter” wrote:
During the summer of 1966–67, Von Braun and a small group of other top NASA managers took a “field trip” to Antarctica..

That’s right, to experience extreme conditions.

Memo:
We need Moon rocks. Send a Geologist! Nope send a fucking Rocket Engineer!!

What percentage of meteorites are from the Moon? Oooh, quite a tiny bit.

I wrote this 7 years ago:

www.meteoris.de/luna/list-ant.html
I have totalled up the Antarctic lunar meteorites ever found and it comes to the slightly short figure of 5.4kg. Maybe NASA got there with their highly publicised non soopah sekrit mission, led by a rocket scientist and found them all before anybody else got there?

An extra factor, short of examining every one in situ as to whether it was a lunar meteorite(and this by Von Braun presumably??), they would have had to have brought back tons of the damn things given the ratio of meteorites that turn out to be of lunar origin.

Out of 25,000 meteorites found in the Antarctic desert area, 35 are known to be of Lunar origin, now just a rough calculation....

To find 1000lbs (remember we have to remove fusion crusts!) of Lunar rock with that approximate ratio, they would need to sift through 714,000lbs of them to find 1000lbs from the Moon.

I wrote this list also 7 years ago…needless to see not one coherent reply!

And even if they did magically find nearly 8 times more rocks consistent with lunar formation than has ever been found to date, the whole thing falls apart....

1. They all have fusion crusts, so the exterior heavier helium-3 content from solar wind, found on the outside, would be removed with the crust.

2. Invisibly removing the crust and fooling geologists is an idiotic assertion.

3. Solar isotopes on lunar meteorites are different to rocks taken from the surface by Apollo astronauts.

4. You would need a whole concentration of rocks from the same area of the Moon to show the same regional similarities found with each Apollo mission.

5. The Apollo rocks show signs of micro-meteorite impacts through zap pits. These pits have evidence of stronger helium-3 penetration on the contact areas, called "gardening" by geologists.

6. The lunar meteorites without any contradiction, all show signs of terrestrial weathering, with oxidation and chemical altering from atmospheric water, rain water and glacial water.

To any person with even average critical thinking skills it is way beyond impossible to fabricate rocks from lunar meteorites. Unfortunately, the people making such assertions, seem not to have even that level.
You cannot reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

The funny thing is that such credophiles see themselves as sharp-eyed piercers of the veil, too sophisticated to be taken in by fakery. But they fall for almost anything that feeds into their convictions.
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Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense.... 29 Nov 2019 00:43 #5

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www.meteoris.de/luna/list-ant.html
This link doesn't work right now.
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Last Edit: 29 Nov 2019 00:45 by Lux Interior.
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Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense.... 29 Nov 2019 08:49 #6

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Lux Interior wrote:
www.meteoris.de/luna/list-ant.html
This link doesn't work right now.

REALLY!! FUCKING REALLY????

I type 4 pages of rebutal and you shove up a stupid link that doesn't work, with no description or any response.

meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites_list_alumina.htm

Quite clearly the best place to find ejections from the Moon is the desert. I suspect because of the way material approaches and is flung closer to the ecliptic plane than a polar trajectory.

No wonder you can believe this utter shit....if you believe idiots who make bare assertions from a position of complete ignorance and ignore evidence sourced from experts and literally thousands of reports :facepalm:

BTW: This clown "Firestarter" is almost certainly the imbecile "St. Jimmy" from the old Icke forum. He posted this identical shit over there and ignored every single response.

TRUTHERS HUH? You aren't seekers of truth.
You cannot reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

The funny thing is that such credophiles see themselves as sharp-eyed piercers of the veil, too sophisticated to be taken in by fakery. But they fall for almost anything that feeds into their convictions.
Last Edit: 29 Nov 2019 08:53 by TG.
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Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense.... 29 Nov 2019 14:28 #7

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It was a link you posted, that means you posted a link, capiche?
Posted immediately prior to the post of mine you quoted. Have you forgotten already? Time for your nap, I'll call nurse to put your Teddy back in the cot.
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Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense.... 29 Nov 2019 14:29 #8

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TG wrote:
”Firestarter” wrote:
During the summer of 1966–67, Von Braun and a small group of other top NASA managers took a “field trip” to Antarctica..

That’s right, to experience extreme conditions.

Memo:
We need Moon rocks. Send a Geologist! Nope send a fucking Rocket Engineer!!

What percentage of meteorites are from the Moon? Oooh, quite a tiny bit.

I wrote this 7 years ago:

www.meteoris.de/luna/list-ant.html
I have totalled up the Antarctic lunar meteorites ever found and it comes to the slightly short figure of 5.4kg. Maybe NASA got there with their highly publicised non soopah sekrit mission, led by a rocket scientist and found them all before anybody else got there?

An extra factor, short of examining every one in situ as to whether it was a lunar meteorite(and this by Von Braun presumably??), they would have had to have brought back tons of the damn things given the ratio of meteorites that turn out to be of lunar origin.

Out of 25,000 meteorites found in the Antarctic desert area, 35 are known to be of Lunar origin, now just a rough calculation....

To find 1000lbs (remember we have to remove fusion crusts!) of Lunar rock with that approximate ratio, they would need to sift through 714,000lbs of them to find 1000lbs from the Moon.

I wrote this list also 7 years ago…needless to see not one coherent reply!

And even if they did magically find nearly 8 times more rocks consistent with lunar formation than has ever been found to date, the whole thing falls apart....

1. They all have fusion crusts, so the exterior heavier helium-3 content from solar wind, found on the outside, would be removed with the crust.

2. Invisibly removing the crust and fooling geologists is an idiotic assertion.

3. Solar isotopes on lunar meteorites are different to rocks taken from the surface by Apollo astronauts.

4. You would need a whole concentration of rocks from the same area of the Moon to show the same regional similarities found with each Apollo mission.

5. The Apollo rocks show signs of micro-meteorite impacts through zap pits. These pits have evidence of stronger helium-3 penetration on the contact areas, called "gardening" by geologists.

6. The lunar meteorites without any contradiction, all show signs of terrestrial weathering, with oxidation and chemical altering from atmospheric water, rain water and glacial water.

To any person with even average critical thinking skills it is way beyond impossible to fabricate rocks from lunar meteorites. Unfortunately, the people making such assertions, seem not to have even that level.

It's in here. Numbnuts.
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Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense.... 29 Nov 2019 15:09 #9

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Isn't there already a fairly recent thread about the 'moon rocks' with a false opening premise?

Moon Troll
Apollo samples prove beyond any doubt that Man has been to the Moon.

Even if some of the rocks are taken directly from the moon, it wouldn't need a man to be actually on the moon to collect them.
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Last Edit: 29 Nov 2019 15:16 by Frothy.
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Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense.... 29 Nov 2019 18:49 #10

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Frothy wrote:
Isn't there already a fairly recent thread about the 'moon rocks' with a false opening premise?

Moon Troll
Apollo samples prove beyond any doubt that Man has been to the Moon.

Nope, because to falsify a proven premise requires really convincing counter argument and a rebuttal and better explanation of the evidence. When ignorant people make ignorant claims - such as about petrified wood and ignore a whole fucking post - POST 2 above!! that completely debunks this stupid claim, it means nothing.
Even if some of the rocks are taken directly from the moon, it wouldn't need a man to be actually on the moon to collect them.

Yes it would. The Soviets managed a few ounces in one mission. NASA collected 842lbs including 3metre core samples.

It is breathtaking how ludicrous you people go...we now have a massive secret space program, soft landing god knows how many vehicles on the Moon...just to collect all those 842lbs of samples. Let alone the fact that they could not do that super complicated task today. Soil collection yes, rocks in that quantity is bloody ridiculous. And in what crazy universe does this magic machine collect a 3m core sample!!

Ignorance is bliss, you must be in Nirvana. :facepalm:
You cannot reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

The funny thing is that such credophiles see themselves as sharp-eyed piercers of the veil, too sophisticated to be taken in by fakery. But they fall for almost anything that feeds into their convictions.
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Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense.... 29 Nov 2019 18:50 #11

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Lux Interior wrote:
It was a link you posted, that means you posted a link, capiche?
Posted immediately prior to the post of mine you quoted. Have you forgotten already? Time for your nap, I'll call nurse to put your Teddy back in the cot.

SO WHAT

The statement still stands, is that your counter argument?

Kind of cowardly and pathetic ya know? See replacement link.
You cannot reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

The funny thing is that such credophiles see themselves as sharp-eyed piercers of the veil, too sophisticated to be taken in by fakery. But they fall for almost anything that feeds into their convictions.
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Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense.... 30 Nov 2019 06:49 #12

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TG wrote:
Lux Interior wrote:
It was a link you posted, that means you posted a link, capiche?
Posted immediately prior to the post of mine you quoted. Have you forgotten already? Time for your nap, I'll call nurse to put your Teddy back in the cot.

SO WHAT

The statement still stands, is that your counter argument?

Kind of cowardly and pathetic ya know? See replacement link.

It's not a counter argument, it's a statement of fact, answer it.
You posted a dead link alluding to your pages of 'wisdom' that doesn't actually exist.
Much like your argument.
Explain yourself, stop running away and trying to divert,it doesn't work. Covering your tracks is a failure on your part and there's nothing you can do to hide it.
Constantly repeating a lie doesn't make it true.

You claim to want honest,open debate ,yet the minute anyone proffers an alternative view you start screaming, that's just immature, do you realise how you come across?
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Last Edit: 30 Nov 2019 06:53 by Lux Interior.
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Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense.... 30 Nov 2019 07:59 #13

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TG wrote:
Frothy wrote:
Isn't there already a fairly recent thread about the 'moon rocks' with a false opening premise?

Moon Troll
Apollo samples prove beyond any doubt that Man has been to the Moon.

Nope, because to falsify a proven premise requires really convincing counter argument and a rebuttal and better explanation of the evidence. When ignorant people make ignorant claims - such as about petrified wood and ignore a whole fucking post - POST 2 above!! that completely debunks this stupid claim, it means nothing.
Even if some of the rocks are taken directly from the moon, it wouldn't need a man to be actually on the moon to collect them.

Yes it would. The Soviets managed a few ounces in one mission. NASA collected 842lbs including 3metre core samples.

It is breathtaking how ludicrous you people go...we now have a massive secret space program, soft landing god knows how many vehicles on the Moon...just to collect all those 842lbs of samples. Let alone the fact that they could not do that super complicated task today. Soil collection yes, rocks in that quantity is bloody ridiculous. And in what crazy universe does this magic machine collect a 3m core sample!!

Ignorance is bliss, you must be in Nirvana. :facepalm:

The possession of moon rock does not prove man went to the moon, because there are mechanical ways of collecting it, idiot.

A lot of the moon rock went 'missing', it's a collection of meteors, bits of wood, tunnelled rock samples, and probe collections.
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Last Edit: 30 Nov 2019 08:03 by Frothy.
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Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense.... 30 Nov 2019 08:59 #14

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Frothy wrote:
The possession of moon rock does not prove man went to the moon, because there are mechanical ways of collecting it, idiot.

Yes it does because the mechanical ways of collecting SOIL were massively expensive for tiny amounts. You have zero evidence for any mechanical collection from NASA. You are spamming your shit here as well as the other thread.
A lot of the moon rock went 'missing',

No it did not you unbelievable dim person. Some of the tiny samples given out on the goodwill tours went missing. Some of the loaned out samples have gone astray, but the bulk of the samples still remains intact.
it's a collection of meteors

Troll, I've detailed why they can't be meteors...like the dishonest troofah you ignore it.
bits of wood

Troll. Detailed why that claim is horseshit. Also ignored.
tunnelled rock samples,

Troll. Detailed that the Earth samples are awash with water and hence terrestrial weathering, are absent of solar isotopes, external zap puts and helium-3.
and probe collections.

Troll. Zero evidence for any such ludicrously expensive thing.
You cannot reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

The funny thing is that such credophiles see themselves as sharp-eyed piercers of the veil, too sophisticated to be taken in by fakery. But they fall for almost anything that feeds into their convictions.
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Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense.... 30 Nov 2019 09:05 #15

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Lux Interior wrote:
It's not a counter argument,

Nope, it most certainly is not!!
it's a statement of fact, answer it.

Already answered - it was from a 7 year old post. A newer link was provided in my response.
You posted a dead link alluding to your pages of 'wisdom' that doesn't actually exist.

No you prick, I posted a dead link to SUPPORT a small segment of my wholly ignored WISDOM!!
Much like your argument.

You pathetic man. You simply are out of your league....incapable of responding.
Explain yourself, stop running away and trying to divert,it doesn't work. Covering your tracks is a failure on your part and there's nothing you can do to hide it.

Already answered you prick.
Constantly repeating a lie doesn't make it true.

Then stop doing it.
You claim to want honest,open debate

Yep. HONEST debate involves you fuckers responding to all my posts. Not tiny segments and ignoring the bits that are too hard for you.
yet the minute anyone proffers an alternative view you start screaming

I start debunking.
that's just immature, do you realise how you come across?

I don't care. Do you realise how YOU come across. Every damn one of you is playing the wind up troll game.

Look at this Frothy person, he just keeps repeating the same crap and ignoring everything in rebuttal...seriously dishonest troofah.
You cannot reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

The funny thing is that such credophiles see themselves as sharp-eyed piercers of the veil, too sophisticated to be taken in by fakery. But they fall for almost anything that feeds into their convictions.
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Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense.... 30 Nov 2019 11:36 #16

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Projection at its grossest, see a shrink.
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Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense.... 30 Nov 2019 11:49 #17

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Lux Interior wrote:
Projection at its grossest, see a shrink.

The cunt logs on...seeks out my posts and trolls.

Take a breath...walk away...get a fucking life. Dude, there is something very wrong with you....your obsession is nauseating and real creepy. :iitm: :iitm: :iitm:
You cannot reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

The funny thing is that such credophiles see themselves as sharp-eyed piercers of the veil, too sophisticated to be taken in by fakery. But they fall for almost anything that feeds into their convictions.
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Response to Firestarter's "Rocks" nonsense.... 30 Nov 2019 13:00 #18

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You left these at the door, one of them is covered in bear shit, pay more attention to where you do it next time.
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Obsession beyond creepy from laxative.. 30 Nov 2019 13:10 #19

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Laxative:

Dude....seriously...take a breath....walk away....get a life. Creepy isn't the word.
You cannot reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

The funny thing is that such credophiles see themselves as sharp-eyed piercers of the veil, too sophisticated to be taken in by fakery. But they fall for almost anything that feeds into their convictions.
Last Edit: 30 Nov 2019 14:22 by TG.
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Obsession beyond creepy from laxative.. 30 Nov 2019 13:57 #20

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liberabo te ab inferno

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