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TOPIC: Welcome to the pit that is the U.K.

Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 27 Jun 2013 23:58 #41

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irrepressible wrote:
I can't understand the celebrity worship that goes on these days... people are looking up to these "celebrities" who have no discernible talent whatsoever. Where are all the geniuses? If I'm going to look up to someone, it will be a genius of sorts :chuckle:

It's a strange world in which a kid "singing" through auto tune, to some crappy basic background "music" gets far more views on youtube than the likes of Ludwig van Beethoven.

Maybe this is why they are worshipped subconsciously. They do nothing yet have the most money (survive the best). Celebrities are the ultimate survivors!
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 28 Jun 2013 00:18 #42

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But they aren't the "ultimate survivors" and, not so deep down, we all know it. They are easily dismissed, put out of fashion, set aside, sacked, usurped by The Next Big Thing or the Younger One.

And we enjoy that as much, if not more than anything.

People LIKE to see that rich, beautiful royal/actress find out that her husband has been seeing other women and is now leaving her. For many, here is a sneaky pleasure in hearing Angelina Jolie has had her biggest attributes removed. We enjoy their desperation and insecurity. We want to see them swivel on the pole in a desperate bid to "stay at the top" just as much as we enjoy seeing them put on the top - at the start of their careers, anyway.

And, importantly, we get to Ooo and Aahh as we watch them fight their illnesses and die - which is our right to watch. They have to tell us all their inner thoughts and feelings along their route, if they want us to weep for them when they are put in the ground - which we know they'll be desperate for us to do.

Are we their victims, or are they ours?

As for copying them - if we really were looking to copy the best survivor, hunter, nurturer, we wouldn't turn to any of them! We would promote the able and clever among us: our own older family, the teachers and trainers who are very specialised in what they do; the neighbour who could show us how to make our own clothes or repair our own cars. Yes, we live in a soft society, but not so soft that we can all go around forking out money for things we could learn ourselves. We're too lazy to want to learn to do things ourselves, so it's very unlikely that we would promote adoration of skills or attributes that would really benefit us.

Are royals and celebrities some kind of transference - we get to have Safe Adventures by working them as the puppets who act it out for us? Some kind of living video creation that we can play - seeing as all they are and do is based on our wants and the need for them to sell themselves to us if they want to survive and thrive.

It's all very odd.
"...Wyrde saves oft the man undoomed
if he undaunted be....". (Beowulf).

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths... Beautiful people do not just happen". (Elisabeth Kubler-Ross).


:cavalier
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 28 Jun 2013 00:40 #43

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Society has becomed warped though hasn't it. The things that ensure survival come so easily to us now (not all of us, talking about the pit that is the UK and similar societies) aren't respected anymore. Our culture has evolved to put importance on so many silly things that they do get put across as high achievers. Of course not everyone sees it the same way.

You're right we like to see them fail as well. Do you think that could be a consequence of beating the alpha pack member? You know how pack animals will challenge a leader and win or lose. If a celebrity fails it could trigger the same psychological response that us as individuals progressing up the hierarchy in a pack would have. Just trying to come up with a reason for the celebrating others misfortune.

edit- this is a short post after everything you wrote cantata but my brains jelly at the moment :)
Last Edit: 28 Jun 2013 00:44 by username.
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 28 Jun 2013 00:51 #44

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In the animal world, there's little joy in seeing the alpha animal go down. It means disruption for the entire herd/pack and often, as with lions and other predators, the death of cubs and infants being nurtured at that time. Enjoying seeing the Top Dog fall seems to be exclusively a Human thrill.

And thrill it is - famously at this point, everyone remembers Jade Goody. How we hated her (until she was "victimised" by the Indian beauty Shilpa Shetty, when many took Jade Goody's side). But we really, as a nation, took her to our hearts when we got to witness her struggle with ovarian cancer. Every single step of it, including her death and how her partner handled his grief and looking after her children. The best Reality Show she'd every put on, as far as the British Public were concerned.

:corn:

We use them to love, to hate, to expunge our jealousy or sexuality..... we dress them, want bigger breasts, no smaller breasts, no bigger breasts after all.... ditto bottoms, abs, lunchboxes... and we delight in watching them scramble to comply - or get dumped. Meh.

Are they our Fools? Court Jesters? New Age Circus? Do they prove to us that no matter how much money you have, or how many things, or how gorgeous you've been operated on to be... in the end, you suffer, ail and die just the same?

They have a function. I just can't figure it out, and really don't consider it worth the expense in the case of The Royal Family.
"...Wyrde saves oft the man undoomed
if he undaunted be....". (Beowulf).

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths... Beautiful people do not just happen". (Elisabeth Kubler-Ross).


:cavalier
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 28 Jun 2013 01:03 #45

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Theirs fulfillment for the individual that suceeds the contest though regardless of the effect on the pack but I see what you mean. Wasn't the best thought out idea :D

The only thing i can think of then is maybe it's a consequence of acceptance in smaller groups. It gives us something to talk about, agree on, sort of fit in with the group. Reinforce eachother with a good group slagging off. So yeah, maybe they are our fools. It still doesn't explain though why some men buy the most uncomfortable underwear in the world just because Beckham wears them though.
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 28 Jun 2013 08:31 #46

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:D
"...Wyrde saves oft the man undoomed
if he undaunted be....". (Beowulf).

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths... Beautiful people do not just happen". (Elisabeth Kubler-Ross).


:cavalier
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 28 Jun 2013 19:41 #47

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It still doesn't explain though why some men buy the most uncomfortable underwear in the world just because Beckham wears them though.

:larf:

I bet Beckham doesn't really wear them anyway. Who would know, except Victoria?

He probably wears her knickers around the house...
The pen is mightier than the sword
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 28 Jun 2013 19:48 #48

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:D
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 03 Jul 2013 23:11 #49

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:mad:

:mad:

Well, I'm so MAD I haven't been able to post today because it would have been full of f's and b's! I think I've calmed down enough to keep this post civil. But I am SO MAD.

I went to visit my friend - I mentioned her on in a thread here before, but I can't remember which one. Nonetheless, you might recall me saying that a friend of mine who is very ill was going to one of these Benefit Tribunals ( the Leamington Courts, ff sake!!!! They TRY sick people in the COURTS OF LAW now for BEING SICK???? What TF have we let them bring us to?????).

Needless to say, it turns out that because she could stand that day and attended (with considerable HELP) the f'ing Tribunal STILL turned down her appeal and took her off Employment Support Allowance. For the last few weeks she has had to claim Jobseekers Allowance, with all that entails (turning up for long interviews at their offices and proving that she has been trying for work) despite the fact that she is so ill there are days she cannot get out of bed, and nights she cannot get upstairs to go to effin bed. :mad:

They have her dragging herself here there and everywhere.... for the same amount of money she'd be getting anyway - and just NO ONE is going to give her a job in her condition. Their advice? "Don't tell them you are ill". :mad:

She doesn't know what to do, because this is going to kill her. And I don't know what to tell her to do, except to put in another sick note and re-start her claim for ESA. But she doesn't think she is "allowed" to do that. She thinks they will just immediately turn down the claim as she has been rejected at appeal by a Tribunal.

Does anyone know anything about this SHITE that I could tell her? I think she's right - this could actually kill her, and I have no idea how to help her at all. :(

Any ideas, anyone? Going to Leamington CAB is not an option since they are both incredibly hard to get an appointment with and effin USELESS when you do get an appointment with them.

I'm firing myself up again just going through this; but this lovely woman is living this in this EFFIN PIT that we only bother to finance at the top. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Anyway, anything anyone can advise me to tell her would be gratefully received.

Thanks.
"...Wyrde saves oft the man undoomed
if he undaunted be....". (Beowulf).

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths... Beautiful people do not just happen". (Elisabeth Kubler-Ross).


:cavalier
Last Edit: 03 Jul 2013 23:12 by cantata.
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 03 Jul 2013 23:18 #50

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I think there is a thing called the benefits maximisation team or something... a doctor actually came out to visit my mum and he took one look at her and told her that she was in no way fit for work. I'll ask my mum about it cantata and get back to you, I'm not too sure about it.

They're disgusting... I can't find the words :mad:
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 03 Jul 2013 23:20 #51

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:mad: :mad: :mad: And this on the same day the government is bragging about extending financing for the effin TERRITORIAL ARMY so they can train a whole bunch more part time wannabe killers.

They cut funding for schooling, health, disability, poverty, bedrooms, street lighting, sick people, old people.... but NOT THE RICH or the effin ARMIES and BOMBS.

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. I'm effin hopping! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I want OUT of this PIT.
"...Wyrde saves oft the man undoomed
if he undaunted be....". (Beowulf).

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths... Beautiful people do not just happen". (Elisabeth Kubler-Ross).


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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 03 Jul 2013 23:22 #52

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irrepressible wrote:
I think there is a thing called the benefits maximisation team or something... a doctor actually came out to visit my mum and he took one look at her and told her that she was in no way fit for work. I'll ask my mum about it cantata and get back to you, I'm not too sure about it.

They're disgusting... I can't find the words :mad:

Thanks, irrie. :)
"...Wyrde saves oft the man undoomed
if he undaunted be....". (Beowulf).

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths... Beautiful people do not just happen". (Elisabeth Kubler-Ross).


:cavalier
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 03 Jul 2013 23:25 #53

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That's awful cantata...I feel so sorry for your friend. :rose:

If you look at the end of the article, there should be many organisations that she might be able to contact regarding this?

benefitclaimantsfightback.wordpress.com/open-letter-on-atos-healthcare-to-the-bmj-and-rcn/
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 03 Jul 2013 23:28 #54

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Well they were trying to get my mum to go to work focussed interviews :roll: she's under six stone and painfully thin. So she got in contact with the benefits maximisation team at Liverpool City Council I think, and the guy sorted it out for her so she didn't have to go to the stupid appointments and she could keep her benefits.

Leamington Spa must have a similar thing surely? And surely she can appeal against the decision at least. She definitely needs some good professional advice and help.

They're always after the poor, the sick, and the vulnerable, whilst the filthy rich corrupt bastards are left well alone to screw everyone over :mad:
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 03 Jul 2013 23:31 #55

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pheony wrote:
That's awful cantata...I feel so sorry for your friend. :rose:

If you look at the end of the article, there should be many organisations that she might be able to contact regarding this?

benefitclaimantsfightback.wordpress.com/open-letter-on-atos-healthcare-to-the-bmj-and-rcn/

Thanks phe. :hug:

OMG, how can there be so many people, organisations and groups against this ATOS discrimination against the sick and disabled, and still nothing is being done about it? Still, they are literally killing ill people.

We're almost back to the effin days when we threw them out into the streets and let them die.

I don't think she has it in her to "fight" or campaign for or against anything to anyone. She is so ILL. But maybe I can help with that. It will beat sitting watching her waste away to her effin death.

Thanks phe.
"...Wyrde saves oft the man undoomed
if he undaunted be....". (Beowulf).

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths... Beautiful people do not just happen". (Elisabeth Kubler-Ross).


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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 03 Jul 2013 23:37 #56

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irrepressible wrote:
Well they were trying to get my mum to go to work focussed interviews :roll: she's under six stone and painfully thin. So she got in contact with the benefits maximisation team at Liverpool City Council I think, and the guy sorted it out for her so she didn't have to go to the stupid appointments and she could keep her benefits.

Leamington Spa must have a similar thing surely? And surely she can appeal against the decision at least. She definitely needs some good professional advice and help.

They're always after the poor, the sick, and the vulnerable, whilst the filthy rich corrupt bastards are left well alone to screw everyone over :mad:

I'll check at Leamington Council, irrie, to see if they have one here.

NO. She can't appeal. The Tribunal was her appeal. It sat in THE LAW COURTS to hear her appeal. A prosecution, in all but name. For being sick. And they found her Guilty of Not Being Sick Enough. In other words, they turned down her appeal despite all the medical evidence.

So that is a Tribunal of non doctors, listening to the evidence of a Registered Nurse who disregarded the evidence of a list of DOCTORS... Go figure this effin PIT. I am compiling a complaint for her against the Nurse involved - he is not qualified to over-ride a doctor's diagnosis. And I'll check out other avenues to help where I can. But I can see the Rabbit Hole's mouth opening up wide already. MY god! If you were sick, you couldn't begin to start all you'd need to do to even get information, never mind action. It's overwhelming!

What a disgusting place to live.

But never mind! Lizzie-Pig is getting another £38 million to tide her over; and her useless grandson is getting £1million to do up his effin nursery. And we have plenty more bombs on the way.

We're getting what we deserve for allowing it. Us next!
"...Wyrde saves oft the man undoomed
if he undaunted be....". (Beowulf).

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths... Beautiful people do not just happen". (Elisabeth Kubler-Ross).


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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 03 Jul 2013 23:42 #57

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I don't really know a lot about the process, but read quite a few peoples stories a little while ago. One word...Heartbreaking. :(

They know when people are really ill, that they can hardly muster the strength to fight this disgusting practice. It seems as though we are going back to Victorian times and I don't see things improving for these poor people. I really hope that you can help your friend cantata...because she is going to need it. :rose:
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 03 Jul 2013 23:50 #58

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ATOS were trying to declare my step dad fit for work... he's got steel plates in both wrists after he shattered them falling off the bus years ago, he's had at least three heart attacks, and he also has diabetes, and he's near on 60 years old :roll: :facepalm:

They're just vile. And how the fuck can a nurse overide a doctor?! :conf: :think: Corrupt to the core.
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 04 Jul 2013 08:24 #59

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Cantata that's harsh, I don't know what to suggest apart from

1) Don't get mad, get even (I'm sure when you calm down you'd be a much more effective force)
2) Don't let them scare you that this was the appeal. In almost everything there is a higher force you can appeal to.

Was it a fisrt tier or upper tribunal. Your friend can appear to an upper tribunal. If something as flippant as 'well you made it here so must be well' made it in to the records of the tribunal then for starters there is grounds for further appeal in section 8 ii to iv in the link below.

disabilityrightsuk.org/appealing-upper-tribunal-against-first-tier-tribunal-decision

You can also go over the records and events with a fine tooth comb, they would have slipped up somewhere and appeal on error of law.

I hope things get better for your friend

edit: from reading that link a bit further it appears you can actually still get legal aid for upper tribunal appeals. Someone in DWP is going to get a slap for overlooking that one!
Last Edit: 04 Jul 2013 08:32 by username.
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 04 Jul 2013 09:25 #60

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username, Thank You. I'm going to get all her paperwork after I've been down to the Council and go through it. Sadly, I never studied or dealt with Employment or Benefit Law back in the day so I'll have to beef up on it somehow. I only hope she has saved all her paperwork.

Honestly, I've only just started out on this VILE track and, OMG, it's a Pan's Maze already. How on god's vile earth is anyone even a little bit sick supposed to work and weave their way through this? Even the smallest thing is turning out to need visits here and visits there and preliminary procedures before The Big Stuff can commence. Every single last word and step of it is worked against them, so that they either give up or get so ill they cannot continue - that's if they can figure out what to do, where to go and who to see in the first place.

It's surely Discrimination against the Disabled? 21st Century Britain, with so much money flying around that we can keep Royals as pets and politicians living like kings; and bombs bombs bombs on land, in air, under water....

And we leave our sick, disabled, impoverished and old to DIE - in bits, if they have to. Who the F cares?

And, even if we didn't care about such people - can we really not see that it's US and OURS next?


:mad:
"...Wyrde saves oft the man undoomed
if he undaunted be....". (Beowulf).

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths... Beautiful people do not just happen". (Elisabeth Kubler-Ross).


:cavalier
Last Edit: 04 Jul 2013 09:31 by cantata.
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