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TOPIC: Welcome to the pit that is the U.K.

Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 04 Jul 2013 13:05 #61

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its designed to be hard mate, it's what they rely on.

I can guarantee you though that they will have slipped up in most of these cases, you just need the time and energy to find where. They may have winded the fight out of your mate but your mate has you ;)

What immediately jumped out at me is that they said she was well enough to come to the hearing. If it was in a court of law (which it sounds like it was) then everything said in that court would have been recorded.

They may not state in the statement of refusal that she was well enough to come to court but if they said it as a counterargument and didn't put it in the statement then you can argue that their decision was swayed by inadmissable evidence because

i) if they put it in the statement the journey to court and the effect on your mate would have had to have been assessed by a credible professional
ii) if they didn't include it then they need to prove a) that they did not take in to account irrelevant facts b) gave adequate reasons c) gave a judgment based on correct evidence d) did not act perversely

a to d above are all arguable under section 8 ii to v in the link. Just because they said that little thing.

They would have said/missed out other little things so don't give up. You've got to remember that most of the people involved in these things work there because they wouldn't get employed in a true results based environment. They are nothing, you are right ;)
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 04 Jul 2013 14:05 #62

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Reading this makes me happy live here behind gods back in a small and backwards country where things change slowly... Although the police here are getting more rude by the day, CCTV is spreading like a plague and all the new laws and rules the EU bastards are making. Not to mention the euro money, it's going to be fucked up and our slavemasters are making things harder everyday. I think the good thing about Finland is that it's quite easily possible here to make a living with farming if that's the only option, things happen here so slow that the change from farming based economy is not far in history, many people still know how to make food for yourself if money lacks.

I just wish this darned piece of crap country would know what is the best option, to be independent from EU and their FIAT money etc... But no, the rulemakers have been bought many moons ago. Norway is probably the northern country which has it's economy etc. in best shape.

I think one of the main problems in England is that there's simply too much people on a rather small area. If shit hits the fan, the cities will be darn dangerous.
"I've often felt that dreams are answers to questions we haven't yet figured out how to ask."
-Agent Fox Mulder
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 04 Jul 2013 16:39 #63

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@ username: you're right. There will be something wrong. The law is written with loopholes inherent in it (so they can all keep earning money from it. Nothing is ever really "over").

@ Hex - you are still so lucky in Finland. Do you think people will let the politicians erode their rights, even slowly over time? Here, it's been implemented and laws changed overnight, and no one (for all the shouting and yelling) has done ANYTHING about it. In fact, "Labour" are already declaring that if they are voted in, they won't be changing anything back.

Well, I've started the garnering of papers and forms and telephone numbers and, tonight, she is going to run through it with me. We won't get much done, because even talking takes it out of her. But a little every day will build itself nicely; and then one of my old University Lecutrers is going to come in on matters and see what we've got. YaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaY for Neil :thumbup:

I have robust health! And a stubborn nature! And a strong sense of Entitlement! They won't kill me off very quickly or easily, that's for sure.

But I think it's picked up my friend's spirit just to feel someone is in on things with her.

:thumbup:
"...Wyrde saves oft the man undoomed
if he undaunted be....". (Beowulf).

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths... Beautiful people do not just happen". (Elisabeth Kubler-Ross).


:cavalier
Last Edit: 04 Jul 2013 16:41 by cantata.
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 04 Jul 2013 16:47 #64

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It's great that you are going to help your friend sort this out cantata...and yes, it will most certainly give her a lift...to know that you care so much. :)

Please keep us updated on your progress.
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 04 Jul 2013 16:51 #65

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Yea, thing's have changed a lot in here too, but all this tightening of the noose around normal peoples necks has been surprisingly slow anyway. I think they will, there's a tradition of obedience and following the laws/leaders here, so they can do quite a lot before anybody does anything to them. (I always hear people complaining behind backs about politicians and laws, but nobody says much out loud.) But I dunno, our "leaders" have blocked quite a few completely senseless laws some EU dictators have tried to implement, so they're not all totally rotten I guess.

But stuff I head about how things are in UK, I'm glad not to be around, it's not surprising how many people have left in recent years.

Aren't the pubs doing quite badly these days? I heard somebody talk about pubs closing down all the time? It's quite sad, there's nothing better than a pint of good ale among good friends at a pub. In finland the bar/pub culture is totally fucked, everything costs so much, can't even smoke inside anymore and all the good places seem to shut down. :/
"I've often felt that dreams are answers to questions we haven't yet figured out how to ask."
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 04 Jul 2013 16:56 #66

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Hexhammer wrote:

Aren't the pubs doing quite badly these days? I heard somebody talk about pubs closing down all the time? It's quite sad, there's nothing better than a pint of good ale among good friends at a pub. In finland the bar/pub culture is totally fucked, everything costs so much, can't even smoke inside anymore and all the good places seem to shut down. :/


Many of the pubs have closed down in the Cities/Towns, but there are still a lot..... further out and in the countryside doing well. I have 3 just a short walk away from me that appear to be very busy.
Last Edit: 04 Jul 2013 16:57 by pheony.
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 04 Jul 2013 16:59 #67

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Nice to hear it's not all bad. :D
"I've often felt that dreams are answers to questions we haven't yet figured out how to ask."
-Agent Fox Mulder
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 04 Jul 2013 17:36 #68

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Nice one Cantata, you'll find their weakness :)
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 04 Jul 2013 17:52 #69

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Sorry to hear that they're doing this to your friend cantata. Well out of order. :(

One option she does have if the worst comes to the worst is to declare herself 'self employed' and claim Working Tax Credits instead.

They don't tell you about this, but self-employed people can claim WTC without actually having to declare that they are making any money/profit.

You just tell them at the end of each tax year that your net profit was nil.

Working tax credit for self-employed people (not making any real profits from their 'business')works out at about £70 per week, paid either weekly or monthly....roughly the same as JSA.

Downside, no housing benefit or council tax benefit entitlement. Upside, she'll be free to earn a few quid without fear of being prosecuted.
She could perhaps do a bit of buying & selling on ebay from home?
The pen is mightier than the sword
Last Edit: 04 Jul 2013 17:59 by diamondgeezer.
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 04 Jul 2013 19:08 #70

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Ooo, you had me going there for a minute, DG :O But she does need the rent and council tax. She's too ill, even to sell on ebay or similar (or she would be already. She's worked all her life until she became sick - she's paid ten times more than she'll ever claim in past tax).

:)
"...Wyrde saves oft the man undoomed
if he undaunted be....". (Beowulf).

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths... Beautiful people do not just happen". (Elisabeth Kubler-Ross).


:cavalier
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 04 Jul 2013 20:51 #71

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Then she should be getting full sick benefit without any hassle, shouldn't she.

Bastards they are. :(

HMRC are at least a lot easier to deal with and fairer/laxer than the DWP (benefit agency) I can definitely assure you of that, and its possible your friend might be able to get extra help with housing benefit etc if she can prove a 'disability'.

Have a look round the website...

www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/start/who-qualifies/workingtaxcredit/work.htm

^ Annoyingly government-ishly typically complicated to work out at a quick glance, but perhaps worth a closer look....
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 04 Jul 2013 21:16 #72

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Thank you for that, DG. That's more info to look into. All strings for the bow! :)

*By gum, I'll have a brain the size of a beach ball at the end of this :D *

(And don't anyone say, "And just as full of air", thank you very much!).
"...Wyrde saves oft the man undoomed
if he undaunted be....". (Beowulf).

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths... Beautiful people do not just happen". (Elisabeth Kubler-Ross).


:cavalier
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 04 Jul 2013 22:01 #73

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I hate those govt websites cantata....they make it deliberately mithersome I really do suspect.

But here's the rub on the wording re working tax credits...& I quote... ;)
What counts as paid work?
If you're an employee, paid work means:
the work you do for your employer in return for payment (or where you would expect to be paid) such as wages
any ‘payment in kind’ (for example groceries for a person who works as a shop assistant, or farm produce for a farm labourer)
If you're self-employed, paid work means any work you do for payment (or would expect to be paid) or profit.

See the bit I bolded? ''or would expect to be paid''. ;) Not actually paid...

Sneaky or what lol.

So, now we've confirmed that really, a self employed person doesn't actually have to be paid for any self employed work at all, right?

Next, go through the whole 'disability' wording on the other page on that site...
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Welcome to the pit that is the U.K. 31 Jul 2013 18:12 #74

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