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TOPIC: The 'North-South divide'.

The 'North-South divide'. 22 Aug 2013 19:03 #1

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North%E2%80%93South_divide_in_the_United_Kingdom
In Great Britain, the term North–South divide refers to the perceived economic and cultural differences between Southern England and the rest of Great Britain (Northern England, Wales and Scotland). The divide cuts through the English Midlands. Sometimes, the term is widened to include the whole United Kingdom, with Northern Ireland included as part of "the North".
In political terms, the South, and particularly the South-East (outside inner London), is largely centre-right, and supportive of the Conservative Party, while the North (particularly the towns and cities) is generally more supportive of the Labour Party as well as, in Scotland, the SNP. Support for the Liberal Democrats, and for many of the smaller parties, is generally more equally spread out. There is some criticism of this analysis in the West Country which has consistently provided a solid base for the Liberal Democrats, and also in places (particularly parts of Bristol, Devon, and Cornwall) which suffer from the same economic problems as the North.

So it officially does exist, as least economically.

There is no doubt about it...the South is generally richer than the North. And the towns and cities in the North are generally 'grimmer' in appearance too (mainly due to the legacy of the industrial revolution).

But 'culturally', is there actually a distinct difference between say, the South East and the North West of England? Are the people really that different in their outlook/attitudes/way of life? Or is it largely a matter of 'perception'.

I'd say that 'cultural' differences are more pronounced between the peoples of say Scotland and England, or Wales and England, than between the various regions of England itself.

Thoughts?
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The 'North-South divide'. 22 Aug 2013 19:53 #2

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I've lived north and south in england and haven't really noticed a difference. Haven't really noticed a difference in Scotland either come to think about it.

I've met people who like to think they are different though!
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The 'North-South divide'. 22 Aug 2013 19:53 #3

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I believe that you are from up North DG... :P .

I am that lass, aye. ;)


Do Northern men keep their women chained to the kitchen sink?

The chain is quite lengthy, so as they can reach t' stove too cook us tea like. And we let em off now and again to do't cleaning etc.


Are Northern women allowed to speak before being spoken to?

Wa can't shut bloody things up tha knows... :P


Do Northern men think that women are inferior to them?


:D Passing on that one. :D

Seriously, no of course we aren't really like that up here.....its just a myth perpetuated by soft shandy-drinking southern poofs designed to put their women off us REAL men. :P
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Last Edit: 22 Aug 2013 19:58 by diamondgeezer.
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The 'North-South divide'. 22 Aug 2013 19:58 #4

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pheony wrote:
That's an interesting read Pheony. A lot of towns down South are like that. Bristol is rough in places: I don't scare easy but there's places I wouldn't walk at night in Bristol on my own.

Another town where I've lived down south that desperately something is Margate. I lived there about 7 years ago and it hasn't improved from what I've been reading recently.
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The 'North-South divide'. 22 Aug 2013 20:08 #5

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I think there are still a lot of 'stereotype' misconceptions of Northerners by Southerners and vice-versa.

Although some of them are clearly tongue-in-cheek of course.....like the 'southern shandy-drinking poofter' thing. :D

And (I hope) the ones about everywhere oop North being just like Coronation Street....and us all wearing flat caps, and eating bread & dripping, and keeping pigeons in our back yards etc etc... :hahano:
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The 'North-South divide'. 22 Aug 2013 20:13 #6

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diamondgeezer wrote:
....and us all wearing flat caps, and eating bread & dripping, and keeping pigeons in our back yards etc etc... :hahano:

you forgot whippets!

I haven't really got an accent as moved about a lot as a kid. I was out in Barnsley once, getting served and the barman just shouted 'where the f*!? are you from?!?'. Before I got my beer he had to get all the bar staff to listen to me talk. It was the only time I felt like an explorer finding a lost tribe
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The 'North-South divide'. 22 Aug 2013 20:18 #7

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I haven't really got an accent as moved about a lot as a kid. I was out in Barnsley once, getting served and the barman just shouted 'where the f*!? are you from?!?'. Before I got my beer he had to get all the bar staff to listen to me talk. It was the only time I felt like an explorer finding a lost tribe

:rofl:
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The 'North-South divide'. 22 Aug 2013 20:29 #8

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pheony wrote:
username wrote:
pheony wrote:
That's an interesting read Pheony. A lot of towns down South are like that. Bristol is rough in places: I don't scare easy but there's places I wouldn't walk at night in Bristol on my own.

Another town where I've lived down south that desperately something is Margate. I lived there about 7 years ago and it hasn't improved from what I've been reading recently.

I'm a Bristol girl. I was lucky enough to spend my early years living in Clifton, then a Village on the outskirts ( which is now classed as South Gloucestershire) Bristol is a beautiful City nowadays, but still has problem areas, as does any large City.

I now live in a very nice part of Kent. Kent also has some horrible areas. Margate is the pits. :P

Some mates of mine live in Clifton. Bristol is good, I like it - it's just got some examples of it's not all rosy down south. Heck even Bath, some areas in the south and eastare really poor but it still has the golden reputation from the canal trade days and Jane Austen party town for the gentry. It's all a facade though - the lovely town houses look like they were built by Fred Flinstone from the back

Planet Thanet, it's a weird place. The closure of Pfizer in Sandwich was bad for it. Not sure what industry there is now in that part
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The 'North-South divide'. 22 Aug 2013 20:34 #9

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See there's another thing phe....in my experience, as far as the Scots are concerned, us English are all just the same.....English.

They don't regard people from the north of England any differently than the south....we're ALL southerners in their eyes.

I'd be interested in some Scottish input on this subject actually. ;) Any Scots in the house?
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The 'North-South divide'. 22 Aug 2013 20:47 #10

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:D

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The 'North-South divide'. 22 Aug 2013 20:48 #11

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diamondgeezer wrote:

I'd be interested in some Scottish input on this subject actually. ;) Any Scots in the house?

I'm a halfbreed, does that count? :D

I used to live in Livingston but haven't got a scottish accent (I can muster one up that passes if want though).

All I can say is that I never encountered any bad stuff for sounding English but my Grandpa and cousins were well known on the estate so I was sort of already accepted. I moved up from Newcastle but didn't sound like a geordie. I was known as english my fist name though. Got called a sassenach a few times but all in jest. I think english people are just english people. In my experience people didn't really care where you were from, you were just english and they didn't really care about that.
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The 'North-South divide'. 22 Aug 2013 21:04 #12

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:killinme:
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The 'North-South divide'. 22 Aug 2013 21:05 #13

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Got called a sassenach a few times

Scotland has its own north-south divide username.

I was told by a highlander that 'sassenach' actually means 'lowlander' , not just 'English' as such....and that people from the far north of Scotland refer to the southern Scots as 'sassenachs'. ;)
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The 'North-South divide'. 22 Aug 2013 21:26 #14

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diamondgeezer wrote:
Got called a sassenach a few times

Scotland has its own north-south divide username.

I was told by a highlander that 'sassenach' actually means 'lowlander' , not just 'English' as such....and that people from the far north of Scotland refer to the southern Scots as 'sassenachs'. ;)

haha, maybe it was a term of acceptance then from them! :D

I didn't know that, every days a school day. I always thought it meant saxon in gaelic, I suppose that the lowlanders have been historically infiltrated a bit more though
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The 'North-South divide'. 22 Aug 2013 21:40 #15

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username wrote:
diamondgeezer wrote:
Got called a sassenach a few times

Scotland has its own north-south divide username.

I was told by a highlander that 'sassenach' actually means 'lowlander' , not just 'English' as such....and that people from the far north of Scotland refer to the southern Scots as 'sassenachs'. ;)

haha, maybe it was a term of acceptance then from them! :D

I didn't know that, every days a school day. I always thought it meant saxon in gaelic, I suppose that the lowlanders have been historically infiltrated a bit more though

You are right....it does actually mean saxon in gaelic.

But also refers to a 'lowland Scot'.

www.thefreedictionary.com/Sassenachs
Sassenach [ˈsæsəˌnæk (Scot) -næx]
n
(Social Science / Peoples) Scot and occasionally Irish an English person or a Lowland Scot
[from Scot Gaelic Sasunnach, Irish Sasanach, from Late Latin saxonēs Saxons]

Every day is indeed a school day.... ;)
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The 'North-South divide'. 22 Aug 2013 21:40 #16

diamondgeezer wrote:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North%E2%80%93South_divide_in_the_United_Kingdom
In Great Britain, the term North–South divide refers to the perceived economic and cultural differences between Southern England and the rest of Great Britain (Northern England, Wales and Scotland). The divide cuts through the English Midlands. Sometimes, the term is widened to include the whole United Kingdom, with Northern Ireland included as part of "the North".
In political terms, the South, and particularly the South-East (outside inner London), is largely centre-right, and supportive of the Conservative Party, while the North (particularly the towns and cities) is generally more supportive of the Labour Party as well as, in Scotland, the SNP. Support for the Liberal Democrats, and for many of the smaller parties, is generally more equally spread out. There is some criticism of this analysis in the West Country which has consistently provided a solid base for the Liberal Democrats, and also in places (particularly parts of Bristol, Devon, and Cornwall) which suffer from the same economic problems as the North.

So it officially does exist, as least economically.

There is no doubt about it...the South is generally richer than the North. And the towns and cities in the North are generally 'grimmer' in appearance too (mainly due to the legacy of the industrial revolution).

But 'culturally', is there actually a distinct difference between say, the South East and the North West of England? Are the people really that different in their outlook/attitudes/way of life? Or is it largely a matter of 'perception'.

I'd say that 'cultural' differences are more pronounced between the peoples of say Scotland and England, or Wales and England, than between the various regions of England itself.

Thoughts?
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...Molti nemici molto onore...
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The 'North-South divide'. 22 Aug 2013 22:05 #17

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As far back as when I was a young horsewoman riding for my first trainer (40 years back) the yard had a young groom travel down from Yorkshire to join the staff and part of her duties was to give lessons to the children and beginners at weekends...

And a whole bunch of the mothers refused to let their children be in her lessons "because of her accent". :conf:

It goes really, really, really deep - but the "class system" is usually most evident in those who believe they have moved up a class or two since their birth.

:mad:





(Incidentally - said young groom gave up wanting to teach at all a couple of years later, and joined us as competition riders. She won Badminton twice and took the National and European Championships too, more than once. Those same mewling parents would LOVE it if she deigned to teach them or their children nowadays).
"...Wyrde saves oft the man undoomed
if he undaunted be....". (Beowulf).

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths... Beautiful people do not just happen". (Elisabeth Kubler-Ross).


:cavalier
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The 'North-South divide'. 23 Aug 2013 15:46 #18

DG wouldn't you say for the upper class, whether Ireland, England, Scotland and America, the lifestyle, habits and commodities that define their status are more or less the same, whereas for lower class the lifestyle, habits and commodities that define their status are more or less the same, regardless of country.

Therefore I think class divisions are more pronounced than national cultural differences, wealthy immigrant families for instance share lifestyles with upper class English, Scot or Welsh (is there upper class Welsh?) more so than with poor immigrant families, who's lifestyle more closely parallels poor English, Scots etc...So I disagree with this:
I'd say that 'cultural' differences are more pronounced between the peoples of say Scotland and England, or Wales and England, than between the various regions of England itself.
Is the point about regions of England being divided about Immigrants?
Essentially Scotland and England both have an upper and a lower class, culture differs only in the class regard imo, we share a common history, Adam Smith was a Scot and most the world adheres to capitalism, so there's not much "cultural" divergence at all unless you're talking about that between rich and poor.
...Molti nemici molto onore...
Last Edit: 23 Aug 2013 15:47 by Ultimate Seeker ™.
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The 'North-South divide'. 26 Aug 2013 10:01 #19

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Haha.....funny cos it's true. :D

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The 'North-South divide'. 26 Aug 2013 11:21 #20

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I think the cultural divide is east west, I lived in west London once and I recon there is more of a cultural difference, between me and them than than me and a Parisian. Also my wife comes from Swindon. Need I say more.
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