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TOPIC: What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'?

What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 28 May 2014 12:13 #21

  • Seaic
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I AM ALL I AM wrote:
G'day Seaic.

Do you know who the authors were and the context that they intended when writing them?

The New Testament was written by Hellenised Jews from the Middle East. The Jewish authors followed Christ, and became the first Christ-ians. The Hellenised (which, assuming anyone reading doesn't know, means "Greekified") Jews were culturally Greek, living in a land where Graeco-Romans had dominated for hundreds of years, and the New Testament contains and is founded upon the teachings of Hellenic philosophers such as Plato, Pythagoras, Epicurus, Zeno, and so on.

Please supply verifiable evidence to your claim that the mythological tales are "the building block of the greatest civilization Earth has ever known.".

I don't need to supply verifiable evidence, just look at Europe and everywhere European peoples are the majority. Compare them to where they're not. Also consider that, since the secularisation of society in the last 50 years, it's the neglect of Christian values and morals that is a major factor in causing the problems we have today with excess drinking, abortions, drug abuse, family breakdowns, and so on.

European civilisation and Christianity are inseparable.

So, when the biblical character know of as 'Jesus' states, ...

Luke 19:27
"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'"

... is his message that his enemies be slain?

No, see this is the importance of context. The Disciples weren't armed, were they? Seems unlikely then, that they would go around killing people or making war. Luke 19:27 is a parable. Jesus was repeating the words of a character in the Parable of the Pounds. He wasn't instructing anyone to kill anyone, merely relaying a story. Now do you see how crucial context is?

When the bible doesn't make sense call the passage a "parable" (fictitious religious story), or allegory (symbolic fictional characters and actions), metaphor (word or phrase used to suggest likeness or allegory), or the infamous "out of context" or "you are misinterpreting".

What's wrong with calling it a parable if it is?

Those who are willing to claim such things to "defend scripture" seem to convey that they KNOW which parts of the bible are literally true and which are not -- but cannot identify a means to make that distinction on other than personal opinion basis.

I claim to "know" nothing, merely that I have read both Testaments, aswell as other Christian texts, and believe in Jesus Christ.
For instance, can anyone show that the tale of "resurrection" is NOT a parable or other form of fiction? What about "virgin birth", "walking on water", "storms calming on command", etc -- are those "parables" (fiction)?
debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=375133#375133

The above quote is from the Debating Christianity & Religion forum, the poster being Zzyx. Another member that I have met personally is Catalyst, with these credentials ...

I don't claim to know with certainty, just what I believe. Very few things are provable beyond all doubt. Atheists also cannot prove any of their claims, it's all conjecture on their part.

And also, not to be rude but why should I care what random people on the Internet, who clearly have an axe to grind against Christianity, have to say?

"Went into christianity at 15, from then 2 years as a christian counsellor, 6 years at theology college, and then a further 3 1/2 years of post graduate "preaching" prior to my leaving christianity. Since then, further investigation on a more historically realistic level (which found wanting to say the least):making it a total of 31 years studying "the word" from every which way angle possible. What are your creds as to this, fewwillfindit? Please share."

... who clearly presents the context and message from a theologically trained position on the thread I took the Zzyx quote from.

Again, why should this person's (who I don't even know is a real person) personal opinions hold sway over me?

Is this the message of 'Jesus'?

You'll have to decide for yourself.
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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 30 May 2014 00:48 #22

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Seaic wrote:
I AM ALL I AM wrote:
G'day Seaic.

Do you know who the authors were and the context that they intended when writing them?

The New Testament was written by Hellenised Jews from the Middle East. The Jewish authors followed Christ, and became the first Christ-ians. The Hellenised (which, assuming anyone reading doesn't know, means "Greekified") Jews were culturally Greek, living in a land where Graeco-Romans had dominated for hundreds of years, and the New Testament contains and is founded upon the teachings of Hellenic philosophers such as Plato, Pythagoras, Epicurus, Zeno, and so on.

G'day Seaic.

Which obviously means that you don't know who wrote it. :thumbup:

Authorship of the Bible
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Bible#New_Testament

Now, you appear to not recognise that you are not making logical sense. To be able to know the context of bible, you would have to know the author(s) and their intent in writing what they did. Even your description above is fallacious as you do not know it for a fact, nor have you provided any EVIDENCE for such a claim.

Seaic wrote:
Please supply verifiable evidence to your claim that the mythological tales are "the building block of the greatest civilization Earth has ever known.".

I don't need to supply verifiable evidence, just look at Europe and everywhere European peoples are the majority. Compare them to where they're not. Also consider that, since the secularisation of society in the last 50 years, it's the neglect of Christian values and morals that is a major factor in causing the problems we have today with excess drinking, abortions, drug abuse, family breakdowns, and so on.

European civilisation and Christianity are inseparable.

Are you preaching ?

If you won't present verifiable evidence for your claims and expect others to simply 'believe' your claims, then you are preaching.

Making unsupported claims appears to be a habit for you.

Seaic wrote:
So, when the biblical character know of as 'Jesus' states, ...

Luke 19:27
"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'"

... is his message that his enemies be slain?

No, see this is the importance of context. The Disciples weren't armed, were they? Seems unlikely then, that they would go around killing people or making war. Luke 19:27 is a parable. Jesus was repeating the words of a character in the Parable of the Pounds. He wasn't instructing anyone to kill anyone, merely relaying a story. Now do you see how crucial context is?

Luke 22:36
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

They "weren't armed" ?

How do you know that ?

Surely when 'Jesus' made the above statement, Luke 22:36, then his disciples rushed out to buy swords, after all, he TOLD them to do so.

Context means taking the WHOLE narrative into account, not merely the passages that you would love to cherry-pick to present a distorted view.

Seaic wrote:
When the bible doesn't make sense call the passage a "parable" (fictitious religious story), or allegory (symbolic fictional characters and actions), metaphor (word or phrase used to suggest likeness or allegory), or the infamous "out of context" or "you are misinterpreting".

What's wrong with calling it a parable if it is?

:facepalm:

Seaic wrote:
Those who are willing to claim such things to "defend scripture" seem to convey that they KNOW which parts of the bible are literally true and which are not -- but cannot identify a means to make that distinction on other than personal opinion basis.

I claim to "know" nothing, merely that I have read both Testaments, aswell as other Christian texts, and believe in Jesus Christ.

YOU have made a great many claims to "know", yet refuse to supply verifiable evidence for. You appear to be contradicting yourself, also known of as lying.

Seaic wrote:
For instance, can anyone show that the tale of "resurrection" is NOT a parable or other form of fiction? What about "virgin birth", "walking on water", "storms calming on command", etc -- are those "parables" (fiction)?
debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=375133#375133

The above quote is from the Debating Christianity & Religion forum, the poster being Zzyx. Another member that I have met personally is Catalyst, with these credentials ...

I don't claim to know with certainty, just what I believe. Very few things are provable beyond all doubt. Atheists also cannot prove any of their claims, it's all conjecture on their part.

And also, not to be rude but why should I care what random people on the Internet, who clearly have an axe to grind against Christianity, have to say?

What are these apparent claims that Atheists make and why would that have anything to do with this discussion?

Amazing how you know so much about "random people on the internet" to be able to pass judgment upon.

Matthew 7:5
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Maybe you have read the bible, :dunno: it appears though that you do not follow the 'message' of 'Jesus' in Matthew 7:5, yet expect others to follow his 'message' (whatever it is and which you appear not to know). :roll:

So you know, Zzyx is married to a christian, which it is doubtful that he would have done if he had "an axe to grind against Christianity".

Seaic wrote:
"Went into christianity at 15, from then 2 years as a christian counsellor, 6 years at theology college, and then a further 3 1/2 years of post graduate "preaching" prior to my leaving christianity. Since then, further investigation on a more historically realistic level (which found wanting to say the least):making it a total of 31 years studying "the word" from every which way angle possible. What are your creds as to this, fewwillfindit? Please share."

... who clearly presents the context and message from a theologically trained position on the thread I took the Zzyx quote from.

Again, why should this person's (who I don't even know is a real person) personal opinions hold sway over me?

It gives you a theological trained perspective of context for the passage that you do not have.

Seaic wrote:
Is this the message of 'Jesus'?

You'll have to decide for yourself.

In other words you do not know what the message of 'Jesus' is.

Funny that considering you claim to be a christian, a followers of the message of 'Jesus'.


You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.


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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 30 May 2014 07:52 #23

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So, 5 days, plenty of posts, yet NOT ONE christian can supply the 'message' of 'Jesus'. :ponda:

What gives? :dunno:

You have read the bible right?

You 'believe' in 'Jesus' right?

Surely you would know the 'message' of some you claim to believe in?
:wissl:
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.


Flare = Censor & Promoter of Bishop Williamson

truth-zone.net/forum/research-zone-forum-feedback-and-faq/73338-flare-censor-promoter-of-bishop-williamson.html#357334
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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 30 May 2014 10:01 #24

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I love you

:)

and this temple of truth urgently needs a good cleansing of the old kind

www.lds.org/bc/content/bible-videos/videos/jesus-cleanses-the-temple/images/35_jesus-cleanses-the-temple_1800x1200_300dpi_2.jpg

:cool:
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
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Last Edit: 30 May 2014 10:17 by PFIZIPFEI.
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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 30 May 2014 11:50 #25

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G'day PFIZIPFEI.

Still no 'message' eh. It would appear that you do not know what it is. :ponda:
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.


Flare = Censor & Promoter of Bishop Williamson

truth-zone.net/forum/research-zone-forum-feedback-and-faq/73338-flare-censor-promoter-of-bishop-williamson.html#357334
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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 30 May 2014 12:51 #26

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Seems you don't recognise a message
from and by CHRIST
if it bites you :)


JOHN 8:43

"How is it you do not understand me when I speak? It is because you cannot bear to listen to my words."
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
Last Edit: 30 May 2014 12:55 by PFIZIPFEI.
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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 30 May 2014 13:12 #27

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I AM ALL I AM wrote:
Still no 'message' eh. It would appear that you do not know what it is. :ponda:

Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you.
Last Edit: 30 May 2014 13:12 by Orangeaid.
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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 31 May 2014 02:40 #28

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PFIZIPFEI wrote:
Seems you don't recognise a message
from and by CHRIST
if it bites you :)


JOHN 8:43

"How is it you do not understand me when I speak? It is because you cannot bear to listen to my words."

G'day PFIZIPFEI.

I checked back over the posts, and no, no post there by a forum member named "CHRIST". Maybe you could point it out to everyone reading along. Unless you are meaning that YOU are "CHRIST"? :dunno:
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.


Flare = Censor & Promoter of Bishop Williamson

truth-zone.net/forum/research-zone-forum-feedback-and-faq/73338-flare-censor-promoter-of-bishop-williamson.html#357334
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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 31 May 2014 04:02 #29

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Orangeaid wrote:
I AM ALL I AM wrote:
Still no 'message' eh. It would appear that you do not know what it is. :ponda:

Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you.

Matthew 25:40
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

G'day Orangeaid.

So you judge all individuals reading this thread, including guests, etc., as "dogs" and "swine", and by the words of the biblical character known of as 'Jesus', "ye have done it into me", judged 'Jesus' the same.


Luke 6:31
And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.


Is that as you would like to be judged Orangeaid, as "dogs" and "swine"?
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.


Flare = Censor & Promoter of Bishop Williamson

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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 31 May 2014 04:20 #30

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The message embodied in the life of Jesus is...

1. Do what your father (in heaven) says even if you don't like it , even if he wants you to die a horrible sacrificial death.

2. Turn the other cheek, be passive , don't fight against injustice (the occupying Roman Empire)

Basically the ethics of slavery , not surprising since it was a myth created by the Roman Empire, to try to control the rebellious Jews.
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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 31 May 2014 04:27 #31

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I AM ALL I AM wrote:
Orangeaid wrote:
I AM ALL I AM wrote:
Still no 'message' eh. It would appear that you do not know what it is. :ponda:

Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you.

Matthew 25:40
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

G'day Orangeaid.

So you judge all individuals reading this thread, including guests, etc., as "dogs" and "swine", and by the words of the biblical character known of as 'Jesus', "ye have done it into me", judged 'Jesus' the same.


Luke 6:31
And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.


Is that as you would like to be judged Orangeaid, as "dogs" and "swine"?
To translate Christ's words and to put it in context, which you have a real problem in doing .... "don't cast your pearls before swine" ... can be interpreted as "don't waste ones time with fools" .... OP
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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 31 May 2014 04:29 #32

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oz93666 wrote:
The message embodied in the life of Jesus is...

1. Do what your father (in heaven) says even if you don't like it , even if he wants you to die a horrible sacrificial death.

2. Turn the other cheek, be passive , don't fight against injustice (the occupying Roman Empire)

Basically the ethics of slavery , not surprising since it was a myth created by the Roman Empire, to try to control the rebellious Jews.
Find a full professor of Religion, Ancient History or the Classics at an Accredited University who supports you. ;)

I think you'll find you won't.
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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 31 May 2014 04:50 #33

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Orangeaid wrote:
I AM ALL I AM wrote:
Orangeaid wrote:
I AM ALL I AM wrote:
Still no 'message' eh. It would appear that you do not know what it is. :ponda:

Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you.

Matthew 25:40
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

G'day Orangeaid.

So you judge all individuals reading this thread, including guests, etc., as "dogs" and "swine", and by the words of the biblical character known of as 'Jesus', "ye have done it into me", judged 'Jesus' the same.


Luke 6:31
And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.


Is that as you would like to be judged Orangeaid, as "dogs" and "swine"?
To translate Christ's words and to put it in context, which you have a real problem in doing .... "don't cast your pearls before swine" ... can be interpreted as "don't waste ones time with fools" .... OP

G'day Orangeaid.

The judgment still stands, of all those reading along, as well as 'Jesus'.

As does the question, " Is that as you would like to be judged Orangeaid, as "dogs" and "swine"?".

Matthew 7:1-3
Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.


Flare = Censor & Promoter of Bishop Williamson

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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 31 May 2014 04:59 #34

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oz93666 wrote:
The message embodied in the life of Jesus is...

1. Do what your father (in heaven) says even if you don't like it , even if he wants you to die a horrible sacrificial death.

2. Turn the other cheek, be passive , don't fight against injustice (the occupying Roman Empire)

Basically the ethics of slavery , not surprising since it was a myth created by the Roman Empire, to try to control the rebellious Jews.

G'day Oz93666.

So, 1 is basically to follow the command to sacrifice yourself to authority.

With 2, there is another explanation posted here, truth-zone.net/forum/general-discussion/63600-what-is-the-message-of-the-biblical-character-known-of-as-jesus.html?limitstart=0#105840, which you may be interested in reading.

There are definite overtones of enslavement throughout the bible.
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.


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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 31 May 2014 06:31 #35

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Orangeaid wrote:
Find a full professor at an Accredited University who supports you. ;) .

You've made my point very well, the controllers of today still use this religion to suppress, they control the universities , and any professor working there knows what to say if he wants to keep his job. We have to go to people outside the system , like Joseph Atwill to find the truth.
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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 31 May 2014 06:39 #36

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Seaic wrote:
I AM ALL I AM wrote:
Seaic wrote:
You've quoted passages from the Bible without context and let them stand alone, inan attempt to deceive. ...

G'day Seaic.

Context?

Do you mean that the bible is a group of mythological tales cobbled together to hide information from the masses by having them believe in the mythological characters in the bible narrative as if they were real and the tales about them are real, all the while not recognising the hidden information?

That context?

In the context that each passage is meant to be taken. It's useless to try and dissect things without understanding the context of the quote.

And they're not bad mythological tales are they? They're the building block of the greatest civilisation Earth has ever known :)

You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.


Flare = Censor & Promoter of Bishop Williamson

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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 31 May 2014 06:51 #37

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oz93666 wrote:
Orangeaid wrote:
Find a full professor at an Accredited University who supports you. ;) .

You've made my point very well, the controllers of today still use this religion to suppress, they control the universities , and any professor working there knows what to say if he wants to keep his job. We have to go to people outside the system , like Joseph Atwill to find the truth.


.....

In 1953, Representative B. Carroll Reese of Tennessee received the authority of Congress to establish a special committee to investigate the power and influence of tax-exempt foundations. The committee never got very far off the ground due to mounting political pressure from multiple sources high within government itself and, eventually, Reese was forced to terminate the committee's work. During its short period of existence, however, many interesting and highly revealing facts were brought to light. Norman Dodd, who was the committee's director of research, and probably one of the country's most knowledgeable authorities on foundations, testified during the hearings and told the committee:

The result of the development and operation of the network in which the foundations (by their support and encouragement) have played such a significant role, seems to have provided this country with what is tantamount to a national system of education under the tight control of organizations and persons little known to the American public . . . . The curriculum in this tightly controlled scheme of education is designed to indoctrinate the American student from matriculation to the consummation of his education. (1)

Under the careful supervision of Fred Gates, John D. Rockefeller set out consciously and methodically to capture control of American education and particularly of American medical education. The process began in 1901 with the creation of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research. It included on its board such politically oriented "medical" names as Doctors L. Emmett Holt, Christian A. Herter, T. Mitchell Pruden, Hermann M. Briggs, William H. Welch, Theobald Smith, and Simon Flexner. Christian Herter was slated for bigger things, of course, and became Secretary of State under President Eisenhower. Simon Flexner also was destined for larger success. Although his name never became as well-known as that of Herter, he and his brother, Abraham Flexner, probably influenced the lives of more people and in a more profound way than has any Secretary of State.

.....

www.sntp.net/fda/piper_griffin.htm

More, much more, at the link.

Kinda makes you wonder why someone would be holding up a Rockefeller indoctrinated individual as some sort of expert. :ponda:
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.


Flare = Censor & Promoter of Bishop Williamson

truth-zone.net/forum/research-zone-forum-feedback-and-faq/73338-flare-censor-promoter-of-bishop-williamson.html#357334
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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 08 Jun 2014 12:16 #38

  • I AM ALL I AM
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It is interesting that no christian has supplied the 'message' of 'Jesus' ... why?

Surely one professing to be a follower of 'Jesus' would know what the 'message' of 'Jesus' actually is??? :dunno: :ponda: :wissl:
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.


Flare = Censor & Promoter of Bishop Williamson

truth-zone.net/forum/research-zone-forum-feedback-and-faq/73338-flare-censor-promoter-of-bishop-williamson.html#357334
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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 08 Jun 2014 13:34 #39

  • Orangeaid
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oz93666 wrote:
Orangeaid wrote:
Find a full professor at an Accredited University who supports you. ;) .

You've made my point very well, the controllers of today still use this religion to suppress, they control the universities , and any professor working there knows what to say if he wants to keep his job. We have to go to people outside the system , like Joseph Atwill to find the truth.
Suppress? You've got to be kidding. You've got a long long way to go in your learning if you still believe that.

Those who control us are Talmudic Jews. They hate Christ and hate Christianity. They have been responsible for the Reformation, the French Revolution, WWI, WWII and 9/11.

They also seek to destroy Torah Jewry, and establish their NWO with Jerusalem at its centre.

Talmudic Jews are responsible for communism, socialism, racism, feminism, atheism and every other bloody ism that has been created.

Secularism has been pushed by them militantly through their control of the USA, UK and France, and Hollywood.

Hollywood is specifically designed to destroy western morality.

Those people don't push religion to suppress, they are actively destroying it. They push the lines you have lapped up to turn you off religion and make you think you are "enlightened" (illuminated), when in reality you are nothing but a NWO minion doing their work for them.

The line you push is the same as David Icke. Doesn't that ring alarm bells?

Wake up!
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What Is The Message Of The Biblical Character Known Of As 'Jesus'? 08 Jun 2014 13:41 #40

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@I AM, here's a message from Christ written especially for you:

Jesus says to fools:
"If you turn at my reproof, behold, I will pour out my spirit to you. I will make my words known to you.

When I called out, you refused to listen. When I stretched out my hand, no one heeded. You have ignored all my counsel and would have none of my reproof; therefore, I also will laugh at your calamity.

I will mock when terror strikes you; when terror strikes you like a storm and your calamity comes like a whirlwind, when distress and anguish come upon you.

Then you will call upon me, but I will not answer; you will seek me diligently but will not find me. Because you hated knowledge and did not choose the fear of the LORD and would have none of my counsel and despised all my reproof, therefore, you shall eat the fruit of your way; and, have your fill of your own devices.

The simple are killed by their turning away, and the complacency of fools destroys them; but, whoever listens to me will dwell securely and will be at ease, without dread of disaster.” 
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