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TOPIC: WHAT WAS THERE, BEFORE IT WAS?

WHAT WAS THERE, BEFORE IT WAS? 11 Mar 2016 10:52 #1

  • TheSpirit
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We cannot wonder about something that does not exist

Man wonders what there was before, before it was – what was there before his birth. He does not realize that time before his birth in such a sense does not exist, for in fact we do not exist yet in the final and true form of life, we are actually not born hitherto. It is therefore absurd to wonder what there was before we were.

Everything there is, either each physical presence or space, from the first atom to man, is only a manifestation of individual time that is triggered by the occurrence of this form (by birth) and declines when its time is over (with death). Space and time are thus interdependent. Every presence is merely a condensed individual time and each individual time merely an extended presence.

That is why this world, a world of copies and reflections of space in time and time in space, is a world in which actual identities do not yet exist. Only once the world of fictitious identities is taken away will a man who accepts the death of his identity or the fact that one does not exist thus far, open up space for reality.

Pre-birth means that we do not yet exist in our final and actual life form. It is therefore nonsensical to wonder about what there was before we were born.

The whole system that is turned upside down and time that flows from the end to the beginning, against its cessation, make each of us a consequence before the cause that is yet to be found. It is a fact of the world that is not yet, and we are thus a pre-birth of our actual world that does not yet exist. It is exactly during that time that birth is entering us.

The question of what there was, say, thousands of years ago when we did not exist can only be answered arbitrarily, that there was something. There was a kind of a conscience or cognition about something. The modern, contemplative people are only an upgrade of the findings and states of those times or an upgrade of our pre-births.

Only once we traverse into an actual birth will the time that we live only seemingly now, arrive. In that moment the time of pre-birth that we are living now will become the rule of the past. The world of copies and the world of living men will then be separated, and the religion called Judgement Day.

Final non-acknowledgement of individual inexistence and perseverance in the position of existence will keep the man in a state of pre-birth and non-existence for the eternity. In such a state he will continuously fight for his seeming existence along with the other ‘inexistent’ ones.

Why is it so?
In this world or the world of reflections the opposite is the identity of everything. The world exists on account of its opposite. The basis for the existence or ‘the account’ of Sun are thus the planets and vice versa. The left reflects the right and vice versa. The above identifies with or reflects the below and vice versa, etc. (Above would not exist if below didn’t and below wouldn’t if above didn’t, and I wouldn’t exist if you didn’t, etc.)

The basis or the foundation of every visible world, every presence and every existence is thus its opposite - the invisible world, the absence and non-existence.

The secret of fundamental absence or God lies in the fact that He never was, He is not and He never will be, yet He is the foundation of everything.

Out of one absence or God, only one presence that is aware of its absence is born, and that is man. One, however, represents asymmetry or death – not a pair or absence. Man therefore feels an unconscious fear of death or nothingness of his position which unconsciously drive him into searching. To conquer the fear that is the consequence of the natural instinct for self-preservation, and the difference between nothingness and himself, man is forced to find his nothingness and accept it. Thus the counterpoint or the pair is established, the difference disappears and death is erased.

Man is at the peak of the natural chain of presence and therefore the only presence that holds the genetic code of all the presences born before him. He thus represents the perfect record of absence and is consequently a being of free will.

All creation or realized space (the past) is found ahead of man, while the Creator and the unrealized time are behind. Had man accepted all the space and reality ahead of him as the only actuality, he would assert himself and his presence in time, in absence or God. He would thus annul passing.

Jesus Christ did that and was therefore God’s son. It took him forty days in the dessert to completely give up his free will and become absently present. (I have conquered this world (my body) and presence). Afterwards he started acting publicly. On the cross he finally gave his presence into the natural rule of absence.

Jesus lived his life on this world absently present and three days after his death the natural rule of absence brought him back to life as a present absence. Not everyone was therefore able to see him. He was seen only by those who were absently present or one with him in spirit. Forty days after his death he transformed into a spirit or absence as a soul or a present absence. Before that he said: ‘Do not touch me, I haven’t gone to the Father yet.’


The life of Jesus Christ thus embodies and solves the general conflict of all creation. This same conflict must be solved by each man on his own. We are each judged only by the fight for our lives – the fight for our own presence. He who does not relent in this fight will be, together with the other present ones, condemned to an eternal fight for his own presence. This is the only thing that never was and never will be.

The basic question of everything or our existence (egg – chicken, chicken – egg) is impossible to answer. For there has never existed neither before nor after, there is always only now or temporal nothingness. Everything that is, exists at this point – the point of nothingness or absence that is common to everyone.

Therefore everything that is, at the same time is not. In fact, even we do not exist yet, and everything that we see and sacredly believe to be, is not either. This world is merely a temporal womb of our actual birth.

We are all simply a pre-birth of our actual births and that is why Jesus said: ‘I was, before I was.’ Just the same as we all are, before we are.

More on: www.spirit-of-the-truth.com/
Last Edit: 12 Mar 2016 09:13 by TheSpirit.
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WHAT WAS THERE, BEFORE IT WAS? 02 Jan 2017 22:54 #2

  • Gaia
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Interesting question.
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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WHAT WAS THERE, BEFORE IT WAS? 07 Jan 2017 02:33 #3

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TheSpirit wrote:
We cannot wonder about something that does not exist

Man wonders what there was before, before it was – what was there before his birth. He does not realize that time before his birth in such a sense does not exist, for in fact we do not exist yet in the final and true form of life, we are actually not born hitherto. It is therefore absurd to wonder what there was before we were. [/quote[

The pre- existence of the soul been hotly debated throughout history. Who knows how many lives it has cost? My position on the topic is the same as the ancient Veda scripture.

'There has never been a time when you and I and the kings of the world have never existed'. The ancient Vedas goes on to say, the person (the Soul) discards worn out bodies and assumes a new bodies like one changes clothes.

For me, the question, what was I doing before birth? I am the same being I have always been, only in a different body.
Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point.” ~ Chuang Tzu
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WHAT WAS THERE, BEFORE IT WAS? 07 Jan 2017 02:46 #4

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peacenik wrote:
The ancient Vedas goes on to say, the person (the Soul) discards worn out bodies and assumes a new bodies like one changes clothes.


Would that not mean then that there would had to be an attributed amount of original (for want of a better word) souls to begin with?
Trolling myself in the mirror at night...
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WHAT WAS THERE, BEFORE IT WAS? 07 Jan 2017 03:00 #5

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If the first line is true ...

"We cannot wonder about something that does not exist"

... then, leprechauns are real, as are fairies, elves unicorns and the Flying Spaghetti Monster (no, not sketti ;) :D).

Not to mention all of the 'Gods'.
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.


Flare = Censor & Promoter of Bishop Williamson

truth-zone.net/forum/research-zone-forum-feedback-and-faq/73338-flare-censor-promoter-of-bishop-williamson.html#357334
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WHAT WAS THERE, BEFORE IT WAS? 07 Jan 2017 03:06 #6

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I AM ALL I AM wrote:
If the first line is true ...

"We cannot wonder about something that does not exist"

... then, leprechauns are real, as are fairies, elves unicorns and the Flying Spaghetti Monster (no, not sketti ;) :D).

Not to mention all of the 'Gods'.
Or Moon Landings, Mars Rovers, Pluto Probes, 6 million gassed jews, anthropogenic global warming, planes entering the WTC, Atomic Bombs and much more. ;)
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
Last Edit: 07 Jan 2017 03:08 by Gaia.
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WHAT WAS THERE, BEFORE IT WAS? 07 Jan 2017 03:07 #7

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sketti wrote:
peacenik wrote:
The ancient Vedas goes on to say, the person (the Soul) discards worn out bodies and assumes a new bodies like one changes clothes.


Would that not mean then that there would had to be an attributed amount of original (for want of a better word) souls to begin with?

G'day sketti.

Life continues creating, it is observable. There are no 'fixed' numbers, they are fluid and infinite.

Source Of Universal Light = Macrocosm

Singularity Of Universal Light = Microcosm

The Source is infinitely fractalised (think Mandelbrot fractal) into Singularities. There is no limit and as there is no time, then it is all NOW !!!
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.


Flare = Censor & Promoter of Bishop Williamson

truth-zone.net/forum/research-zone-forum-feedback-and-faq/73338-flare-censor-promoter-of-bishop-williamson.html#357334
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WHAT WAS THERE, BEFORE IT WAS? 07 Jan 2017 03:09 #8

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Isn't the wondering of things that don't excist just an extension of the imagination when all's said and done?
Trolling myself in the mirror at night...
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WHAT WAS THERE, BEFORE IT WAS? 07 Jan 2017 03:11 #9

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I AM ALL I AM wrote:
sketti wrote:
peacenik wrote:
The ancient Vedas goes on to say, the person (the Soul) discards worn out bodies and assumes a new bodies like one changes clothes.


Would that not mean then that there would had to be an attributed amount of original (for want of a better word) souls to begin with?

G'day sketti.

Life continues creating, it is observable. There are no 'fixed' numbers, they are fluid and infinite.

Source Of Universal Light = Macrocosm

Singularity Of Universal Light = Microcosm

The Source is infinitely fractalised (think Mandelbrot fractal) into Singularities. There is no limit and as there is no time, then it is all NOW !!!


Got the last line :D ....but the rest is gonna need more than I got at this precise moment in time :P :D
Trolling myself in the mirror at night...
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WHAT WAS THERE, BEFORE IT WAS? 07 Jan 2017 03:35 #10

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sketti wrote:
I AM ALL I AM wrote:
sketti wrote:
peacenik wrote:
The ancient Vedas goes on to say, the person (the Soul) discards worn out bodies and assumes a new bodies like one changes clothes.


Would that not mean then that there would had to be an attributed amount of original (for want of a better word) souls to begin with?

G'day sketti.

Life continues creating, it is observable. There are no 'fixed' numbers, they are fluid and infinite.

Source Of Universal Light = Macrocosm

Singularity Of Universal Light = Microcosm

The Source is infinitely fractalised (think Mandelbrot fractal) into Singularities. There is no limit and as there is no time, then it is all NOW !!!


Got the last line :D ....but the rest is gonna need more than I got at this precise moment in time :P :D

Well sunshine, I will see if I can simplify the explanation for a late night frazzled mind. ;). :D

Life extends both externally and internally in an infinite progression. Every time that scientists think they have found the largest or smallest, someone comes along with a larger or smaller.

If you think of the number '0' (zero) as in the Zero Point from which ALL Life fractalises from, both macrocosmic (large) and microcosmic (small), then you already know that the numbers progress infinitely larger (+) and infinitely smaller (-).

No fancy formulas to remember and work out. Simple common sense, logic (left sided activity of the brain - right = imagination).

Hope that helps. :thumbup:
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.


Flare = Censor & Promoter of Bishop Williamson

truth-zone.net/forum/research-zone-forum-feedback-and-faq/73338-flare-censor-promoter-of-bishop-williamson.html#357334
Last Edit: 08 Jan 2017 04:00 by I AM ALL I AM.
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WHAT WAS THERE, BEFORE IT WAS? 07 Jan 2017 11:53 #11

I AM ALL I AM wrote:
If the first line is true ...

"We cannot wonder about something that does not exist"

... then, leprechauns are real, as are fairies, elves unicorns and the Flying Spaghetti Monster (no, not sketti ;) :D).

Not to mention all of the 'Gods'.

They exist in the realm of imagination ,Dont get me wrong ,the realm of imagination is just as real as the reality you experience :)
Insurgent's in a matrix
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WHAT WAS THERE, BEFORE IT WAS? 07 Jan 2017 12:24 #12

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In the mind of the imagineer, maybe. It takes physical interaction with the material world to make the imaginery into actuality.
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WHAT WAS THERE, BEFORE IT WAS? 07 Jan 2017 17:01 #13

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backfromthebrink wrote:
I AM ALL I AM wrote:
If the first line is true ...

"We cannot wonder about something that does not exist"

... then, leprechauns are real, as are fairies, elves unicorns and the Flying Spaghetti Monster (no, not sketti ;) :D).

Not to mention all of the 'Gods'.

They exist in the realm of imagination ,Dont get me wrong ,the realm of imagination is just as real as the reality you experience :)

I imagine that I will win big on the lottery and actively seek to manifest that happening.
So far.. nada.
:(
" If wishes were horses then beggars would ride."
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WHAT WAS THERE, BEFORE IT WAS? 07 Jan 2017 21:26 #14

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GMP wrote:
.....
" If wishes were horses then beggars would ride."

'If wishes were fishes no one would starve.' ;). :D
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.


Flare = Censor & Promoter of Bishop Williamson

truth-zone.net/forum/research-zone-forum-feedback-and-faq/73338-flare-censor-promoter-of-bishop-williamson.html#357334
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