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TOPIC: The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits

The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 12:32 #1

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Holocaust Denial settles comfortably into one of two niches:

Ethnic Hate: The Denialists dislike Jews, Jewishness, Jewry, or less damning, don't like Israel. Or, perhaps they just really like the Third Reich, Hitler and buy into Aryan Supremacy mumbo-jumbo. By denying the Holocaust, they can remove some sympathy from the hated Jews (or de-legitimize Israel's founding), and restore some respect to the beloved Nazis.
You typically don't want to argue anything with this sort of denialist. There's no winning.

You may occasionally run into a Wehraboo, who in their enthusiasm for history and/or historical gaming, lose sight of the forest for the trees. A discussion of the technical and logistical feats involved in perpetrating the Holocaust, and the sheer scale of it, may get their attention long enough to bring them back to earth with a crash.

Contrarianism: They want to believe there is more to know than what they know, they yearn for layers under layers, but are too lazy to realize that the way to find what they want out of history is in resolving detail, not removing masks. The fantasy of secret knowledge and conspiracies to keep them from it is the thrill.

There is nothing you can do here in terms of arguing on the merits. You're a part of the conspiracy they're fighting against the moment you engage them on the topic in good faith. You would be much better served in letting them know about the history of Holocaust Denial itself, and the unsavory company they find themselves in. Wikipedia has a well researched section on this, and a regular clown-car full of hateful men who created it and kept it alive. Begin with Harry Elmer Barnes, who got his start absolving Germany of all blame for the First World War in the '20s and '30s, and kept the ball rolling with Holocaust Denialism right after the Second World War.

People of a non-European background who don't understand what the big deal is may not have seen pictures of liberated concentration camps. That's usually enough to stifle half-understood conspiracy theories they may have heard from someone who heard from someone.

In short, don't bother too much with this project - you're more likely than not dealing with a bigot or a lunatic, neither of which are open to honest debate.

At the Nuremberg trials the holocaust was one of the indictments. None of the defendants pretended that the holocaust had not happened, because this was not credible, and they didn't want to concede that the holocaust was wrong.

No trial is perfect, but unlike the Nazis' 'trials' (when they even bothered) at Nuremberg the accused had lawyers, were not tortured, and some of them were acquitted. Their defences were along the lines of

-Hitler told us to.
-I had nothing to do with it, it was the other defendants.
-It was self-defence to kill the Jews because [insert mouth-foaming Nazi rubbish here].

The holocaust can't be denied unless basically all history is denied. If you're going to go that far, why not deny that world war 2 happened? After all, you weren't there.

history.stackexchange.com/questions/26838/how-to-rebut-holocaust-denial-argument/26853

There certainly does seem to be traits linking holocaust denial:

1) Liking the Third Reich
2) Separatists &/or Jew haters
3) Contrarianism

If holocaust denial was objective surely there would be plenty of them that either don't like the Third Reich, that like Jews, or are not obsessed with contrarianism.

That's the triad of traits for holocaust deniers. :up:
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Last Edit: 17 Nov 2016 12:58 by Frothy.
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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 12:55 #2

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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 13:33 #3

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''Wikipedia has a well researched section on this''

Its here where the article looses all credibility :iitm:
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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 13:42 #4

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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 14:08 #5

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Grolongo wrote:
''Wikipedia has a well researched section on this''

Its here where the article looses all credibility :iitm:

Here's a list of holocaust deniers from the Wikipedia webpage
Salvador Abascal
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad[122][201]
Mahmoud Abbas[112][114][115][117][202][203]
Mohammed Mahdi Akef
Steven L. Anderson[204]
Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi[105]
Maurice Bardèche
Harry Elmer Barnes[205]
David Berg[206]
Salvador Borrego
James von Brunn
Pat Buchanan
Arthur Butz
Willis Carto
Thies Christophersen
Doug Collins
Larry Darby
Günter Deckert
Léon Degrelle
Savitri Devi
David Duke
François Duprat
Robert Faurisson
Bobby Fischer[207]
Roger Garaudy
Pedro Varela Geiss
Hutton Gibson
Jürgen Graf
Nick Griffin
Michael A. Hoffman II
Ursula Haverbeck
David Hoggan
Gerd Honsik
David Irving
Nathanael Kapner
Ilias Kasidiaris
James Keegstra
Ali Khamenei
Nicholas Kollerstrom
Fred A. Leuchter
Norman Lowell
Horst Mahler
Dieudonné M'bala M'bala
James J. Martin
Khaled Mashal
Carlo Mattogno
David McCalden
Nikolaos Michaloliakos[208]
Khalid Abdul Muhammad
Eustace Mullins
Carl O. Nordling
Adnan Oktar
William Luther Pierce
Konstantinos Plevris
Roeland Raes[209]
Ahmed Rami
Paul Rassinier
Dariusz Ratajczak
Otto Ernst Remer
V. T. Rajshekar
John Kingsley Read
Michèle Renouf
Vincent Reynouard
George Lincoln Rockwell
Manfred Roeder
Germar Rudolf
Bernhard Schaub
Miguel Serrano
Gerald L. K. Smith
Wilhelm Stäglich
Sultan bin Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan
Georges Theil
Serge Thion
Gerald Fredrick Töben
Ferdinand Topacio
Siegfried Verbeke
Richard Verrall
Udo Walendy
Mark Weber
Richard Williamson
Ernst Zündel

And 209 reference sources used, plus publications about holocaust denial and by holocaust deniers, I'd say that's fairly well researched, the Wikipedia page is not refuting holocaust denial you buffoon it's simply outlining the case for it. If you would like to read the page you'll find it is pretty well researched.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

But anyway this thread is not about Wikipedia, it's about the traid of traits of at least one element is always present in holocaust denial, attacking Wikipedia's article is a lame response, it's actually quite factual and objective.
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Last Edit: 17 Nov 2016 14:28 by Frothy.
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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 14:22 #6

To me it doesn't really matter... I mean, it matters to learn the truth but it's not the single most important thing for people to understand. I knew the jewish agenda long before i ever heard the words holocaust denier.

The turning point for me was learning the history of money. Once you fully understand money it's easier to connect the dots.
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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 14:48 #7

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I guess different people choose different routes but by typing into Google ''Jews,money, greed, NWO, holocaust, Zionism'' etc the paths are laid out to lead people to the same conclusions, but the Triad of Traits that I have identified always have at least one element in place.

One needs to have at least one of those defining factors to be a holocaust denier, if none of those factors are there then there is no holocaust denial displayed. It's a form of mind control, it usually considers people who question it as part of the problem or pages such as Wikipedia on the matter as incorrect/badly researched, in other words the whole matter is a self organising system now where any objections are seen as part of the problem, researching that Jews are greedy or something is going to lead one to the holocaust, or researching points about was Hitler a Zionist stooge, is going to lead to the holocaust and Israel, so whatever route is taken the Triad of Traits comes into play, just like three sheep dogs working together to herd sheep.
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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 15:12 #8

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The list of fallacies is strong on this one.

One doesn't need to be a half-truther, liking the zionist-sponsored and led Third Reich to know the physical, chemical and logical impossibilities of the Holocaust Story.

The piece on "Contrarianism" is a joke.

There are no conspiracies or secrets to be uncovered, boys and girls, everything (((we))) wrote in the history books happened the way we want you to remember it

On top of that; Rat, by his own admission, disputes the 6,000,000 number. So that makes you a "denier" too. :yerright:
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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 15:23 #9

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Sometimes people need to wonder ''why did I become a holocaust denier'' in some cases people have watched subjective pro Third Reich videos and harp on about how Hitler was misunderstood, in other cases they have followed a money trail agenda that has led them to Jews, so then they are led to holocaust denial, other people think that there are so many layers of secrets thus the holocaust like most other things is a lie.

The problem is the way I see it is that the whole thing is like a sort of maze, there are three intertwining paths, Liking the Third Reich, disliking Jews (and others) and have to have a contrary view on everything, so unless you're a Dolfy lover, a separatist, or a contrarianist (aka Gaia) then you won't be a holocaust denier, as you would have no reason to be.
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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 15:33 #10

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Gaia
On top of that; Rat, by his own admission, disputes the 6,000,000 number. So that makes you a "denier" too

Yes I do dispute the numbers but I don't deny that the homicidal chambers were used, so for me it's a bit like saying xyz is a mass murderer but he didn't murder as many as is being pinned on him. I've often though that the 6 or 8 million figure suited the holocaust deniers because it makes the logistics impractical. I don't think that much is recorded in history with an awful lot of accuracy for example it's debatable about how many Native Indians were killed in the US and Canada, but it's not debated that they were killed on mass none the same by a form of genocide.
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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 15:51 #11

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Actually it would probably be possible to argue the holocaust denial type of narrative about Native Americans, I'm not suggesting that anyone should or that they didn't suffer as recorded, but if one wanted to use a holocaust deniers approach they could argue that the Indians were killing one another, scouting for the white man, raping whites, most of them died from being drunks or natural causes, they were heathens and savages, the history books got it all wrong, don't believe what you were taught at school, etc etc etc etc ad infinitum
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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 16:26 #12

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Rat wrote:
I don't deny that the homicidal chambers were used,

Neither do I because they never existed. Fake fake fake, and could not possibly have worked. Deal breaker for me? No Prussian blue in shower bricks. Denier is a loaded term. Am I a flat Earth denier because I don't believe in a flat Earth?
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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 16:35 #13

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"have to have a contrary view on everything"

You're reversing the methodology here, on purpose, I know.

The insights about different truths behind vast amounts of lies are gained from the data, not the other way around, like you present here.

Not: "the history books are wrong, so the Holocaust Story must be bogus", but "the data shows the Holocaust Story is bogus, so the history books are wrong".
Rat wrote:
Gaia
On top of that; Rat, by his own admission, disputes the 6,000,000 number. So that makes you a "denier" too

Yes I do dispute the numbers but I don't deny that the homicidal chambers were used,

Nobody denies this.

Because denial is only possible for facts. One can deny that the Sun is yellow. One cannot "deny" that grass is blue, because grass isn't blue.

Homicidal gas chambers as presented to us (= data) are physically and chemically impossible. That's the starting point, not the propaganda talks by everyone involved.
so for me it's a bit like saying xyz is a mass murderer but he didn't murder as many as is being pinned on him. I've often though that the 6 or 8 million figure suited the holocaust deniers because it makes the logistics impractical. I don't think that much is recorded in history with an awful lot of accuracy for example it's debatable about how many Native Indians were killed in the US and Canada, but it's not debated that they were killed on mass none the same by a form of genocide.

Most of the indigenous peoples of the Americas were killed by diseases. The population decline in the first century of European invasion is in the 70-80%. That is well documented and makes sense. I am not an expert on North American indigenous peoples, but for the Spanish occupied areas I've done enough research. There is no reason why the North Americans would suffer a completely different fate.

Other sources of indigenous decline were intermarrying with whites (mestizos) and black slaves (mulattos), expulsion and recollection in "reserves" and yes, murders took place too. But those were not on a mass scale; the occupying forces wanted the indigenous peoples to work for them and pay tributes, not wipe them out, as then the invaders suddenly needed to do all the work.

For the Holocaust, the most interesting and challenging case is Treblinka.



A MINIMUM death count of 46,000 kills per month (~1500 per day, every day, for 15 months) with no traces found of any deaths (except the planted "evidence" in the BBC "documentary"), let alone so freakingly many, is impossible.

Even if one deflates the numbers by 50%, then still 750 bodies need to be disposed of PER DAY.

It is not (just) the numbers that make the Holocaust Story unbearable to present as true. It is the physics, chemistry and logic that debunks it.
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Last Edit: 17 Nov 2016 16:39 by Gaia.
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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 17:18 #14

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What leads one to be an adherent to the TRIAD?

I will admit to always being contrarian.

The other 2 points emerged in my thinking AFTER looking into the Holocaust. So I was not predisposed to separatism/anti jewish sentiments, nor supporting the 3rd reich.

Your op premise is flawed. Best to delete it and do better.


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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 23:33 #15

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rodin wrote:
Rat wrote:
I don't deny that the homicidal chambers were used,

Neither do I because they never existed. Fake fake fake, and could not possibly have worked. Deal breaker for me? No Prussian blue in shower bricks. Denier is a loaded term. Am I a flat Earth denier because I don't believe in a flat Earth?

The Prussian blue hoax was well and truly negated on this thread truth-zone.net/forum/history/65536-exposing-the-prussian-blue-hoax.html#163450

Yes you deny the theory of flat Earth any merit because as you say you don't believe it.
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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 23:33 #16

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rodin wrote:
Rat wrote:
I don't deny that the homicidal chambers were used,

Neither do I because they never existed. Fake fake fake, and could not possibly have worked. Deal breaker for me? No Prussian blue in shower bricks. Denier is a loaded term. Am I a flat Earth denier because I don't believe in a flat Earth?

Indeed.

Or a 9/11 denier because you don't accept the bullshit official narrative as true?

Denier is just another leftist smear term to label people who don't accept a lie that is peddled by the Jewish agenda:

1. Holocaust denier
2. 9/11 denier
3. Climate change denier
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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 23:37 #17

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Voltaire wrote:
What leads one to be an adherent to the TRIAD?

I will admit to always being contrarian.

The other 2 points emerged in my thinking AFTER looking into the Holocaust. So I was not predisposed to separatism/anti jewish sentiments, nor supporting the 3rd reich.

Your op premise is flawed. Best to delete it and do better.

You fail to comprehend the point, the matter of fact is, you are a holocaust denier, you do like the third Reich, you have a low opinion of Jews, and you as you say are contrarian.

You tick all three boxes of the triad, your path to it is irrelevant, you're a perfect model for my case.
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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 23:41 #18

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You can't deny something that never happened.

The holocaust didn't happen. It's a lie. It's fake.

That's it.

So fuck off Frothy :P
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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 23:45 #19

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Rat wrote:
Voltaire wrote:
What leads one to be an adherent to the TRIAD?

I will admit to always being contrarian.

The other 2 points emerged in my thinking AFTER looking into the Holocaust. So I was not predisposed to separatism/anti jewish sentiments, nor supporting the 3rd reich.

Your op premise is flawed. Best to delete it and do better.

You fail to comprehend the point, the matter of fact is, you are a holocaust denier, you do like the third Reich, you have a low opinion of Jews, and you as you say are contrarian.

You tick all three boxes of the triad, your path to it is irrelevant, you're a perfect model for my case.

Your whole "case" is filled with air, yet sinks at the first test.

Quit the bullshit, you don't even understand the basics of logic and semantics.

As I am saying all the way and Orangeaid repeats here: "One cannot deny something that didn't happen".

Have fun with your blue grass and green Sun. :facepalm:
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The Holocaust Deniers Triad of Traits 17 Nov 2016 23:46 #20

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@Gaia, the Red Cross figures are misleading, even though I myself question the official 8 million figure, it's a false narrative with the Red Cross figures as they were tracking German Jews, it was the Red Cross of West Germany that came up with those figures in it's tracking of German Jews in the holocaust, not all Jews in the holocaust.
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