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TOPIC: Pre-Existence

Pre-Existence 21 Jun 2018 23:55 #1

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This is big, this is huge, this is a bombshell, this can awaken you if you delve into it and start asking questions.

Did you know, that the idea of Pre-existance existed in early Christianity all the way up until AD553 when pre-existence was condemned as heresy in the Second Council of Constantinople?

So what's "Pre-Existence"?

Also called, "before life" or "premortal existence" Pre-Existence is the belief that you existed before this life. This is a real game changer, for I know of no Christian church willing to admit this. Yet it's true.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-existence

What makes this so mind blowing is some of the things the church preaches against were actually incorporated into early Christianity. "Past lives" is a good example. The church is opposed to belief of "past lives" yet there it is. That's what pre-existence is, is belief in past-lives. Not only that but it brings into question immortality? Are you an immortal being? Pre-Existence implies you are?

The church doesn't like this. it doesn't like anything outside of church teachings. You cannot be controlled very well if you understand you are an immortal being.

Pre-Existence is an awakening phenomena. It prompts you to investigate, it breaks the chains that bind you. Little wonder the church under Constantinople declared it heresy. tens of thousands of people were killed for their belief pre-existence. People were burned alive for this belief.

This opens up so many questions to be answered, and you are the only one who can answer them for you. This concerns you whether you are a Christian or not because a very large portion of who and what you really are has been partitioned off from you.

It is your job, NO, it is your duty to investigate pre-existence further.

Wake up!

If they are able to censor your pre-existance what else have they censored?

Just how far down does the rabbit hole go?

It is up to you to find out.


Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point.” ~ Chuang Tzu
Last Edit: 21 Jun 2018 23:57 by peacenik.
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Pre-Existence 22 Jun 2018 12:51 #2

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peacenik wrote:
..Pre-Existence is the belief that you existed before this life. This is a real game changer, for I know of no Christian church willing to admit this

If you mean we've all lived other lives on earth before, what evidence is there for that?
And if it is true, why is it a "game changer"?
The Bible partly backs you up by indicating our souls are immortal and existed before we were born, but that doesn't mean we've lived other lives before.
For example God said to Jeremiah- "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, I decided you were going to be my prophet", which indicates Jeremiah's soul pre-existed and was known to God even before he was born.
Likewise Jesus said to God- "Father you loved me before the creation of the world", indicating too that Jesus's soul had always pre-existed.
Last Edit: 22 Jun 2018 12:53 by Ugh.
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Pre-Existence 22 Jun 2018 20:58 #3

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What has happened here is, for centuries Man has trusted church authority for all of Man's spiritual and moral needs, and the church has took a sh*t in the face of Man.

To just say, the church has, betrayed Man is an understatement. The church has deliberately stood in the path of any spiritual betterment and IMO, the church worked in secret to confound and confuse Man's relationship with GOD.

Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point.” ~ Chuang Tzu
Last Edit: 22 Jun 2018 22:45 by peacenik.
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Pre-Existence 24 Jun 2018 02:16 #4

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So, let's expand a little on Pre-Existence.

For the sake of simplicity, let's say you have a simple name like, "John Smith". Innocently ask you, "Who were you before you were, John Smith"? You can see, the question itself has an awakening factor to it. It makes you look. It makes you question if there is more to your life than just mortal existence? Just that one question prompts one to ask, "if I am more than just the identity named, John Smith, how many other identities have I had in the past"?

Are you starting to see now, why this simple little question, posed such a threat to religious authority? The simple little question prompted one to ask so many other questions of the same nature. Too many questions that may awaken one, and question church authority.

I still marvel at the whole thing.Just the asking of this simple little question could cause you to be burned alive at the stake. The fact alone that the church had to declare this simple little question, heresy is testimony to the awakening potential of the simple little question.
Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point.” ~ Chuang Tzu
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Pre-Existence 24 Jun 2018 14:06 #5

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peacenik wrote:
..the church has, betrayed Man is an understatement. The church has deliberately stood in the path of any spiritual betterment and IMO, the church worked in secret to confound and confuse Man's relationship with GOD.

Sure, the dumb masses like to let the church do their thinking for them, but truthseekers such as you and me don't belong to the dumb masses, we prefer to think for ourselves..:)
The dumb masses can't get under Jesus's radar, he said-
"Not all who call me "Lord,Lord" will enter my father's kingdom. Then I'll tell them plainly, I never knew you, get away from me" (Matt 7:21-23)
Last Edit: 24 Jun 2018 14:08 by Ugh.
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Pre-Existence 24 Jun 2018 14:17 #6

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peacenik wrote:
..Just that one question prompts one to ask, "if I am more than just the identity named, John Smith, how many other identities have I had in the past"?
..Are you starting to see now, why this simple little question, posed such a threat to religious authority? on.

Did any people ask that question?
If they did, why would it upset the church?
Personally I don't care two hoots if I've lived before, so why should anybody else, it's not an important issue anyway.
Last Edit: 24 Jun 2018 14:19 by Ugh.
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Pre-Existence 24 Jun 2018 14:39 #7

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peacenik wrote:
So, let's expand a little on Pre-Existence.

For the sake of simplicity, let's say you have a simple name like, "John Smith". Innocently ask you, "Who were you before you were, John Smith"? You can see, the question itself has an awakening factor to it. It makes you look. It makes you question if there is more to your life than just mortal existence? Just that one question prompts one to ask, "if I am more than just the identity named, John Smith, how many other identities have I had in the past"?

Are you starting to see now, why this simple little question, posed such a threat to religious authority? The simple little question prompted one to ask so many other questions of the same nature. Too many questions that may awaken one, and question church authority.

I still marvel at the whole thing.Just the asking of this simple little question could cause you to be burned alive at the stake. The fact alone that the church had to declare this simple little question, heresy is testimony to the awakening potential of the simple little question.

Personally I don't care about the church. I've already made my thoughts plain that it was hijacked by the Roman authorities and was the best weapon they had to stifle Jesus' message and turn it into some weird Pagan Canaanite pantomime.

As for whether we've lived before..... I dunno. Maybe. Do you actually have any personal story, insight or something interesting that makes you so certain of this position.

Noone's feathers are ruffled here by the idea of past lives.... but if you feel some thrill of controversy over the subject then by all means enjoy yourself.
Last Edit: 24 Jun 2018 14:41 by Truthspoon.
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Pre-Existence 24 Jun 2018 23:45 #8

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Truthspoon wrote:
peacenik wrote:
So, let's expand a little on Pre-Existence.

For the sake of simplicity, let's say you have a simple name like, "John Smith". Innocently ask you, "Who were you before you were, John Smith"? You can see, the question itself has an awakening factor to it. It makes you look. It makes you question if there is more to your life than just mortal existence? Just that one question prompts one to ask, "if I am more than just the identity named, John Smith, how many other identities have I had in the past"?

Are you starting to see now, why this simple little question, posed such a threat to religious authority? The simple little question prompted one to ask so many other questions of the same nature. Too many questions that may awaken one, and question church authority.

I still marvel at the whole thing.Just the asking of this simple little question could cause you to be burned alive at the stake. The fact alone that the church had to declare this simple little question, heresy is testimony to the awakening potential of the simple little question.

Personally I don't care about the church. I've already made my thoughts plain that it was hijacked by the Roman authorities and was the best weapon they had to stifle Jesus' message and turn it into some weird Pagan Canaanite pantomime.

As for whether we've lived before..... I dunno. Maybe. Do you actually have any personal story, insight or something interesting that makes you so certain of this position.

Noone's feathers are ruffled here by the idea of past lives.... but if you feel some thrill of controversy over the subject then by all means enjoy yourself.


It's not important, you don't believe in "past lives".

Like anything else, spiritual, there is NEVER a one size fits all. That kind of knowledge is personal, inner, knowledge and would come from the inside.

Pre-Existence was at one time a part of the Christianity Religion. There's no way out of this.

You can get mad and stomp your feet, curse at the sky, hate me for it, and tag team with "ugh" to shout it down this thread, but it changes nothing, you are still stuck with the fact, Pre-Existence used to be incorporated into the Christian religion..

You certainly aren't hurting me by refusing a substantial part of the Christian religion. By all means, carry on.
Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point.” ~ Chuang Tzu
Last Edit: 24 Jun 2018 23:47 by peacenik.
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Pre-Existence 24 Jun 2018 23:58 #9

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peacenik wrote:
Pre-Existence was at one time a part of the Christianity Religion..

I can't seem to find anything in the New T that supports that claim, or am I missing something?
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Pre-Existence 25 Jun 2018 04:17 #10

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peacenik wrote:
Truthspoon wrote:
peacenik wrote:
So, let's expand a little on Pre-Existence.

For the sake of simplicity, let's say you have a simple name like, "John Smith". Innocently ask you, "Who were you before you were, John Smith"? You can see, the question itself has an awakening factor to it. It makes you look. It makes you question if there is more to your life than just mortal existence? Just that one question prompts one to ask, "if I am more than just the identity named, John Smith, how many other identities have I had in the past"?

Are you starting to see now, why this simple little question, posed such a threat to religious authority? The simple little question prompted one to ask so many other questions of the same nature. Too many questions that may awaken one, and question church authority.

I still marvel at the whole thing.Just the asking of this simple little question could cause you to be burned alive at the stake. The fact alone that the church had to declare this simple little question, heresy is testimony to the awakening potential of the simple little question.

Personally I don't care about the church. I've already made my thoughts plain that it was hijacked by the Roman authorities and was the best weapon they had to stifle Jesus' message and turn it into some weird Pagan Canaanite pantomime.

As for whether we've lived before..... I dunno. Maybe. Do you actually have any personal story, insight or something interesting that makes you so certain of this position.

Noone's feathers are ruffled here by the idea of past lives.... but if you feel some thrill of controversy over the subject then by all means enjoy yourself.


It's not important, you don't believe in "past lives".

Like anything else, spiritual, there is NEVER a one size fits all. That kind of knowledge is personal, inner, knowledge and would come from the inside.

Pre-Existence was at one time a part of the Christianity Religion. There's no way out of this.

You can get mad and stomp your feet, curse at the sky, hate me for it, and tag team with "ugh" to shout it down this thread, but it changes nothing, you are still stuck with the fact, Pre-Existence used to be incorporated into the Christian religion..

You certainly aren't hurting me by refusing a substantial part of the Christian religion. By all means, carry on.

Dude......you're getting a little emotionally overwrought. Read my post again please and then decide if any of what you have just said reflects on what I have written.

So, like I said before, do you have any personal evidence or experience?

And you can leave out all the rhetoric....there's no need for it. Let's just stay on topic.
Last Edit: 25 Jun 2018 04:19 by Truthspoon.
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Pre-Existence 25 Jun 2018 06:35 #11

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Truthspoon wrote:
peacenik wrote:
Truthspoon wrote:
peacenik wrote:
So, let's expand a little on Pre-Existence.

For the sake of simplicity, let's say you have a simple name like, "John Smith". Innocently ask you, "Who were you before you were, John Smith"? You can see, the question itself has an awakening factor to it. It makes you look. It makes you question if there is more to your life than just mortal existence? Just that one question prompts one to ask, "if I am more than just the identity named, John Smith, how many other identities have I had in the past"?

Are you starting to see now, why this simple little question, posed such a threat to religious authority? The simple little question prompted one to ask so many other questions of the same nature. Too many questions that may awaken one, and question church authority.

I still marvel at the whole thing.Just the asking of this simple little question could cause you to be burned alive at the stake. The fact alone that the church had to declare this simple little question, heresy is testimony to the awakening potential of the simple little question.

Personally I don't care about the church. I've already made my thoughts plain that it was hijacked by the Roman authorities and was the best weapon they had to stifle Jesus' message and turn it into some weird Pagan Canaanite pantomime.

As for whether we've lived before..... I dunno. Maybe. Do you actually have any personal story, insight or something interesting that makes you so certain of this position.

Noone's feathers are ruffled here by the idea of past lives.... but if you feel some thrill of controversy over the subject then by all means enjoy yourself.


It's not important, you don't believe in "past lives".

Like anything else, spiritual, there is NEVER a one size fits all. That kind of knowledge is personal, inner, knowledge and would come from the inside.

Pre-Existence was at one time a part of the Christianity Religion. There's no way out of this.

You can get mad and stomp your feet, curse at the sky, hate me for it, and tag team with "ugh" to shout it down this thread, but it changes nothing, you are still stuck with the fact, Pre-Existence used to be incorporated into the Christian religion..

You certainly aren't hurting me by refusing a substantial part of the Christian religion. By all means, carry on.



So, like I said before, do you have any personal evidence or experience?

Yes, I have personal experience.What's your point?
Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point.” ~ Chuang Tzu
Last Edit: 25 Jun 2018 06:38 by peacenik.
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Pre-Existence 25 Jun 2018 10:59 #12

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peacenik wrote:
Truthspoon wrote:
peacenik wrote:
Truthspoon wrote:
peacenik wrote:
So, let's expand a little on Pre-Existence.

For the sake of simplicity, let's say you have a simple name like, "John Smith". Innocently ask you, "Who were you before you were, John Smith"? You can see, the question itself has an awakening factor to it. It makes you look. It makes you question if there is more to your life than just mortal existence? Just that one question prompts one to ask, "if I am more than just the identity named, John Smith, how many other identities have I had in the past"?

Are you starting to see now, why this simple little question, posed such a threat to religious authority? The simple little question prompted one to ask so many other questions of the same nature. Too many questions that may awaken one, and question church authority.

I still marvel at the whole thing.Just the asking of this simple little question could cause you to be burned alive at the stake. The fact alone that the church had to declare this simple little question, heresy is testimony to the awakening potential of the simple little question.

Personally I don't care about the church. I've already made my thoughts plain that it was hijacked by the Roman authorities and was the best weapon they had to stifle Jesus' message and turn it into some weird Pagan Canaanite pantomime.

As for whether we've lived before..... I dunno. Maybe. Do you actually have any personal story, insight or something interesting that makes you so certain of this position.

Noone's feathers are ruffled here by the idea of past lives.... but if you feel some thrill of controversy over the subject then by all means enjoy yourself.


It's not important, you don't believe in "past lives".

Like anything else, spiritual, there is NEVER a one size fits all. That kind of knowledge is personal, inner, knowledge and would come from the inside.

Pre-Existence was at one time a part of the Christianity Religion. There's no way out of this.

You can get mad and stomp your feet, curse at the sky, hate me for it, and tag team with "ugh" to shout it down this thread, but it changes nothing, you are still stuck with the fact, Pre-Existence used to be incorporated into the Christian religion..

You certainly aren't hurting me by refusing a substantial part of the Christian religion. By all means, carry on.



So, like I said before, do you have any personal evidence or experience?

Yes, I have personal experience.What's your point?

I don't know why you're so evasive and defensive. If you've got a story I'm sure we'd all love to hear it.
Last Edit: 25 Jun 2018 11:02 by Truthspoon.
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Pre-Existence 25 Jun 2018 20:13 #13

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Truthspoon wrote:
peacenik wrote:
Truthspoon wrote:
peacenik wrote:
Truthspoon wrote:
peacenik wrote:
So, let's expand a little on Pre-Existence.

For the sake of simplicity, let's say you have a simple name like, "John Smith". Innocently ask you, "Who were you before you were, John Smith"? You can see, the question itself has an awakening factor to it. It makes you look. It makes you question if there is more to your life than just mortal existence? Just that one question prompts one to ask, "if I am more than just the identity named, John Smith, how many other identities have I had in the past"?

Are you starting to see now, why this simple little question, posed such a threat to religious authority? The simple little question prompted one to ask so many other questions of the same nature. Too many questions that may awaken one, and question church authority.

I still marvel at the whole thing.Just the asking of this simple little question could cause you to be burned alive at the stake. The fact alone that the church had to declare this simple little question, heresy is testimony to the awakening potential of the simple little question.

Personally I don't care about the church. I've already made my thoughts plain that it was hijacked by the Roman authorities and was the best weapon they had to stifle Jesus' message and turn it into some weird Pagan Canaanite pantomime.

As for whether we've lived before..... I dunno. Maybe. Do you actually have any personal story, insight or something interesting that makes you so certain of this position.

Noone's feathers are ruffled here by the idea of past lives.... but if you feel some thrill of controversy over the subject then by all means enjoy yourself.


It's not important, you don't believe in "past lives".

Like anything else, spiritual, there is NEVER a one size fits all. That kind of knowledge is personal, inner, knowledge and would come from the inside.

Pre-Existence was at one time a part of the Christianity Religion. There's no way out of this.

You can get mad and stomp your feet, curse at the sky, hate me for it, and tag team with "ugh" to shout it down this thread, but it changes nothing, you are still stuck with the fact, Pre-Existence used to be incorporated into the Christian religion..

You certainly aren't hurting me by refusing a substantial part of the Christian religion. By all means, carry on.



So, like I said before, do you have any personal evidence or experience?

Yes, I have personal experience.What's your point?

I don't know why you're so evasive and defensive. If you've got a story I'm sure we'd all love to hear it.

We've been down that road before, when both of us were on DIF. You told me, all that was outside your belief system was demonic. "Such ideas as past lives came from Satan", you said. That was about 6 years ago. Looking at some of your recent posts on this thread and others, your attitude remains the same.

Please understand, there is nothing I like better than discussing my past. But most people are not sincere when they say they want to learn something new like "past lives". All I end up doing is providing troll food for trolls.

But I will meet you half way. I've documented several of my past lives on the DIF years ago. My username at DIF is "arcyclus". With that info you should be able to go to DIF and retrieve those documents of my past lives. :)
Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point.” ~ Chuang Tzu
Last Edit: 25 Jun 2018 20:18 by peacenik.
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Pre-Existence 26 Jun 2018 21:39 #14

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There is so much more to the idea of Pre-Existence than just, "past lives".

When a newborn baby comes into the world, does the newborn come with a mind that is blank and learns through the five sense of the body? Or does the newborn come with certain knowledge already in place?

Some of the greatest minds in the world have pondered this question.

The ancient greek philosophers, Plato and Socrates, argued that universal knowledge possessed by humans cannot be learned by the senses. Rather this knowledge is innate and existed before the newborn came into a body.

Plato argued, all wisdom is mere recollection of that which was already learned prior to birth. Such things as, beauty, perfection, courage, equality, et al, are all things which exist outside the five senses, and the fact they exist is a testament to Pre-exisrtance.

Socrates reasons, a child’s ability to distinguish “fair” and “equal” portions relative to its siblings, even before the words, “fair” and “equal” are even defined for him, must come from knowledge already in existence prior to birth?
Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point.” ~ Chuang Tzu
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Pre-Existence 27 Jun 2018 02:55 #15

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peacenik wrote:
..I've documented several of my past lives on the DIF years ago..

What's the DIF?
Anyway are we talking about reincarnation here?
If so, it's Satanic to the core as it implies we get a whole series of "second chances" to "improve ourselves" in new lives like a video game!
Satan is saying- "Don't worry about going to hell, just relax, you'll be reincarnated for a second chance to avoid it and then another chance, and then another and another, you can trust me, would I lie?"..
So people are suckered in by him into dropping their guard.
Christianity is quite specific that we get ONE chance in ONE life.
First we die and have a good kip-
"Don't grieve for those asleep,for they sleep in Jesus" (1 Thess 4:13/14)
Then on judgment day we get a wake-up call-
Jesus said:- "All in the graves shall come out.."(John 5:28/29)
Last Edit: 27 Jun 2018 02:58 by Ugh.
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Pre-Existence 27 Jun 2018 20:55 #16

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Ugh wrote:
peacenik wrote:
..I've documented several of my past lives on the DIF years ago..

What's the DIF?
Anyway are we talking about reincarnation here?
If so, it's Satanic to the core as it implies we get a whole series of "second chances" to "improve ourselves" in new lives like a video game!
Satan is saying- "Don't worry about going to hell, just relax, you'll be reincarnated for a second chance to avoid it and then another chance, and then another and another, you can trust me, would I lie?"..
So people are suckered in by him into dropping their guard.
Christianity is quite specific that we get ONE chance in ONE life.
First we die and have a good kip-
"Don't grieve for those asleep,for they sleep in Jesus" (1 Thess 4:13/14)
Then on judgment day we get a wake-up call-
Jesus said:- "All in the graves shall come out.."(John 5:28/29)

DIF=Dave Icke Forum.

"reincarnation" and "past lives" are both words that poorly describe the phenomena. We use these words for lack of any nomenclature anywhere to describe anything spiritual.

Not only do I remember being alive, before life in this body, But I also have experienced what christians refer to to as the "resurrection", many, many. times.

NO, Iam not Satan, NO, I am not someone who has invoked demons. I am merely someone who made a pact with himself a long time ago to understand the riddle of his existence.

"ask and thou shall receive". I have asked and I have received.......and I am happy with the results.
Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point.” ~ Chuang Tzu
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Pre-Existence 27 Jun 2018 22:18 #17

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peacenik wrote:
..Not only do I remember being alive, before life in this body, But I also have experienced what christians refer to to as the "resurrection", many, many. times.

Who were you in those "past lives" or is it a secret?
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Pre-Existence 27 Jun 2018 23:48 #18

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Ugh wrote:
peacenik wrote:
..Not only do I remember being alive, before life in this body, But I also have experienced what christians refer to to as the "resurrection", many, many. times.

Who were you in those "past lives" or is it a secret?

Myself, I have always been myself. I always will be Myself, But, I have had many different identities (bodies)
Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point.” ~ Chuang Tzu
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Pre-Existence 28 Jun 2018 02:51 #19

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peacenik wrote:
Myself, I have always been myself. I always will be Myself, But, I have had many different identities (bodies)

Well that's interesting, so who were you, a Roman centurion, a pirate captain, an indian chief, an eskimo or what?
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Pre-Existence 28 Jun 2018 06:57 #20

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Ugh wrote:
peacenik wrote:
Myself, I have always been myself. I always will be Myself, But, I have had many different identities (bodies)

Well that's interesting, so who were you, a Roman centurion, a pirate captain, an indian chief, an eskimo or what?



If you're asking if I remember being someone famous? The answer is, NO!

I was executed during the French Revolution.

I died clutching my throat under a huge weeping willow tree in front of a southern plantation mansion in the US.

I served in the war of 1812.

I was once hanged from the main sail mast of my own ship for spying and treason.

I killed a man once with a poker iron from a fireplace.

I killed another man (a partner) by slamming his head repeatedly against a metal bulkhead aboard ship.

I trafficked Black negro slaves stacked 5 high on metal racks or bunks along the south-eastern coast of the US.

I once saw America's famous warship, the USS Constitution docked at a harbor,...................

You say, you find past lives interesting? What I find interesting is, before the advent of of Monotheism (belief in one god), the prevalent religious belief of Man was Rebirth (cycle of life)
Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point.” ~ Chuang Tzu
Last Edit: 28 Jun 2018 07:27 by peacenik.
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