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TOPIC: What Happens When You Die

What Happens When You Die 13 May 2019 19:46 #21

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TOPIC: What Happens When You Die
Christianity is clear enough, namely that when the body dies, the soul flies..:)
Interestingly when the bloke on the cross next to Jesus said "Jesus remember me", he replied "Today you'll be with me in Paradise", indicating that there's not necessarily going to be a long wait of many years for Resurrection Day, but that resurrection occurs soon after the death of the body, perhaps even instantaneously.
Last Edit: 13 May 2019 19:47 by Ugh.
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What Happens When You Die 13 May 2019 21:03 #22

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OpenMind wrote:
Frothy wrote:
.



Peter Fenwick has done a lot of decent research into near death experiences, which is as near as we'll ever know until the day has passed when death occurs.

He speaks about the importance of finding peace and letting go for an easy transition, that would include letting go of your beliefs, they no longer apply.

The sooner the better.

I used to also believe in those near death experiences because a lot of those stories are very compelling, but my foundation for understanding is the scriptures and it clearly refutes these stories. Therefore, in my mind, these stories have lost credibility.

So in other words, your religious zeal does not permit you to see or know anything outside of your box, and you think it's cool that you've limited your awareness to what others have written for you, in the form of scripture?
Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point.” ~ Chuang Tzu
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What Happens When You Die 14 May 2019 06:31 #23

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OpenMind wrote:
peacenik wrote:

FYI, the ancient symbol for a disembodied soul is the snake or serpent. There is more than one reason for this. The main reason is because the snake sheds it's skin thereby renewing itself. Just like Man does when he dies and assumes another body thereby renewing himself.

Aside from the fact that there's no evidence of it, reincarnation simply makes no sense.

There never is evidence for anything spiritual. That's because you try to solve the riddle of spirit with material means.

You don't like the word, "reincarnation"? try using the word, "pre-existance". That's more descriptive anyway. It includes, past lives, rebirth, as well as reincarnation.
Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point.” ~ Chuang Tzu
Last Edit: 14 May 2019 06:31 by peacenik.
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What Happens When You Die 14 May 2019 12:03 #24

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peacenik wrote:
OpenMind wrote:
Frothy wrote:
.



Peter Fenwick has done a lot of decent research into near death experiences, which is as near as we'll ever know until the day has passed when death occurs.

He speaks about the importance of finding peace and letting go for an easy transition, that would include letting go of your beliefs, they no longer apply.

The sooner the better.

I used to also believe in those near death experiences because a lot of those stories are very compelling, but my foundation for understanding is the scriptures and it clearly refutes these stories. Therefore, in my mind, these stories have lost credibility.

So in other words, your religious zeal does not permit you to see or know anything outside of your box, and you think it's cool that you've limited your awareness to what others have written for you, in the form of scripture?

I'd rather take notice of what real people report, and the similarities in their reports than what some unknown person wrote about what some characters in a book said they saw someone do.

You won't find spirituality in a book, you'll just find a persuasive agenda. in order to found a religion, books are the Jewish way, they try to make up evidence rather than just having pure faith.
Once a hyena always a hyena.
Last Edit: 14 May 2019 12:23 by Frothy.
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What Happens When You Die 14 May 2019 16:45 #25

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Frothy wrote:
peacenik wrote:
OpenMind wrote:
Frothy wrote:
.



Peter Fenwick has done a lot of decent research into near death experiences, which is as near as we'll ever know until the day has passed when death occurs.

He speaks about the importance of finding peace and letting go for an easy transition, that would include letting go of your beliefs, they no longer apply.

The sooner the better.

I used to also believe in those near death experiences because a lot of those stories are very compelling, but my foundation for understanding is the scriptures and it clearly refutes these stories. Therefore, in my mind, these stories have lost credibility.

So in other words, your religious zeal does not permit you to see or know anything outside of your box, and you think it's cool that you've limited your awareness to what others have written for you, in the form of scripture?

I'd rather take notice of what real people report, and the similarities in their reports than what some unknown person wrote about what some characters in a book said they saw someone do.

You won't find spirituality in a book, you'll just find a persuasive agenda. in order to found a religion, books are the Jewish way, they try to make up evidence rather than just having pure faith.
You don't believe a book, but you believe a youtube video :chuckle:
You can't fix stupid
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What Happens When You Die 14 May 2019 21:32 #26

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As I've said before, if somebody is a Jesus-rejecter, they'll try to fill the spiritual void within themselves by turning to unproven beliefs, ideas, hunches and philosophies, and trying to push that as "the truth".
I suppose we should be grateful to them for proving this Biblical prophecy to be right..:)-

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear" (2 Timothy 4:3)

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What Happens When You Die 14 May 2019 21:56 #27

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Ugh wrote:
As I've said before, if somebody is a Jesus-rejecter, they'll try to fill the spiritual void within themselves by turning to unproven beliefs, ideas, hunches and philosophies, and trying to push that as "the truth".
I suppose we should be grateful to them for proving this Biblical prophecy to be right..:)-

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear" (2 Timothy 4:3)


Any person who has ever realized God is within himself, has trumped anything "Jesus" has to offer. All the feelings and sensations one gets when one accepts "Jesus" into his heart, is the same feelings and sensations one gets when one realizes God is within oneself. In other words, "Jesus" is an unnecessary via.

There is nothing higher than understanding God is within. You came into this world by yourself without "Jesus". Why would you need a "Jesus" when you exit this world?

Indeed, Man got along just fine w/o the advent of "Jesus" more than two thousand years ago. Why the sudden need, now?
Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point.” ~ Chuang Tzu
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What Happens When You Die 14 May 2019 22:58 #28

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Ugh wrote:
TOPIC: What Happens When You Die
Christianity is clear enough, namely that when the body dies, the soul flies..:)
Interestingly when the bloke on the cross next to Jesus said "Jesus remember me", he replied "Today you'll be with me in Paradise", indicating that there's not necessarily going to be a long wait of many years for Resurrection Day, but that resurrection occurs soon after the death of the body, perhaps even instantaneously.

If you move the comma in that line about paradise you get an entirely different meaning making this a nebulous verse at best. So knowing there are several clear as day scriptures that tell us the resurrection happens on the last day, why would you go with the nebulous?
Last Edit: 14 May 2019 23:55 by OpenMind.
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What Happens When You Die 14 May 2019 23:34 #29

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Rocco wrote:
Frothy wrote:
peacenik wrote:
OpenMind wrote:
Frothy wrote:
.



Peter Fenwick has done a lot of decent research into near death experiences, which is as near as we'll ever know until the day has passed when death occurs.

He speaks about the importance of finding peace and letting go for an easy transition, that would include letting go of your beliefs, they no longer apply.

The sooner the better.

I used to also believe in those near death experiences because a lot of those stories are very compelling, but my foundation for understanding is the scriptures and it clearly refutes these stories. Therefore, in my mind, these stories have lost credibility.

So in other words, your religious zeal does not permit you to see or know anything outside of your box, and you think it's cool that you've limited your awareness to what others have written for you, in the form of scripture?

I'd rather take notice of what real people report, and the similarities in their reports than what some unknown person wrote about what some characters in a book said they saw someone do.

You won't find spirituality in a book, you'll just find a persuasive agenda. in order to found a religion, books are the Jewish way, they try to make up evidence rather than just having pure faith.
You don't believe a book, but you believe a youtube video :chuckle:

Well there is a chance he's fabricated his research, its still something that people could check up on by themselves by doing their own research into the various reports, rather than simply reciting a he said she said book.of unknown authorship and without any external collaboration from the Abrahamic Jew books and their related works, any research outwith has yielded nothing.

I bet you haven;t watched that YouTube video or read the NT, I've done the entirety of both, peoples NDE are relative, a he said she said book usd to found a Jewish themed religion is irrelevant, it's unfounded beyond it's own narratives and own works. Totally objective.
Once a hyena always a hyena.
Last Edit: 14 May 2019 23:42 by Frothy.
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What Happens When You Die 14 May 2019 23:43 #30

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Frothy wrote:
Rocco wrote:
Frothy wrote:
peacenik wrote:
OpenMind wrote:
Frothy wrote:
.



Peter Fenwick has done a lot of decent research into near death experiences, which is as near as we'll ever know until the day has passed when death occurs.

He speaks about the importance of finding peace and letting go for an easy transition, that would include letting go of your beliefs, they no longer apply.

The sooner the better.

I used to also believe in those near death experiences because a lot of those stories are very compelling, but my foundation for understanding is the scriptures and it clearly refutes these stories. Therefore, in my mind, these stories have lost credibility.

So in other words, your religious zeal does not permit you to see or know anything outside of your box, and you think it's cool that you've limited your awareness to what others have written for you, in the form of scripture?

I'd rather take notice of what real people report, and the similarities in their reports than what some unknown person wrote about what some characters in a book said they saw someone do.

You won't find spirituality in a book, you'll just find a persuasive agenda. in order to found a religion, books are the Jewish way, they try to make up evidence rather than just having pure faith.
You don't believe a book, but you believe a youtube video :chuckle:

Well there is a chance he's fabricated his research, its still something that people could check up on by themselves by doing their own research into the various reports, rather than simply reciting a he said she said book.of unknown authorship and without any external collaboration from the Abrahamic Jew books and their related works, any research outwith has yielded nothing.

I bet you haven;t watched that YouTube video or read the NT, I've done the entirety of both, peoples NDE are relative, a he said she said book usd to found a Jewish themed religion is irrelevant, it's unfounded beyond it's own narratives and own works. Totally objective.
I went to Christian schools, I read the holy bible every day dipshit
You can't fix stupid
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What Happens When You Die 15 May 2019 00:02 #31

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peacenik wrote:
OpenMind wrote:
I used to also believe in those near death experiences because a lot of those stories are very compelling, but my foundation for understanding is the scriptures and it clearly refutes these stories. Therefore, in my mind, these stories have lost credibility.

So in other words, your religious zeal does not permit you to see or know anything outside of your box, and you think it's cool that you've limited your awareness to what others have written for you, in the form of scripture?

Thanks for the quick psycho analysis but without knowing me, my experience, my knowledge or my beliefs in depth you never really stood a chance with that. The reason I use the scriptures as my foundation for understanding is because I've analyzed them and found them to be far more compelling than anything I've ever read, seen or heard. And the reason they're so compelling is because they would be impossible to have come from forgery, fraud or coincidence considering the alignment of prophecies and consistencies spanning 1500 years and 40 different authors.

You wouldn't of course see that if you simply "read" the Bible. You have to actually understand it.
Last Edit: 15 May 2019 00:04 by OpenMind.
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What Happens When You Die 15 May 2019 00:18 #32

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OpenMind wrote:
If you move the comma in that line about paradise you get an entirely different meaning making this a nebulous verse at best..

To recap for our popcorn-munching audience, the chap on the cross next to Jesus said- "Jesus remember me", and Jesus replied- "I say unto you, today you'll be with me in paradise"
That seems plain enough in all the Bible versions I've seen (some below) so why on earth should anybody want to move the comma?


www.biblegateway.com/keyword/
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What Happens When You Die 15 May 2019 00:19 #33

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Ugh wrote:
That seems plain enough in all the Bible versions I've seen (some below) so why on earth should anybody want to move the comma?
Because the original Greek doesn't have a comma at all. It was inserted by the translators where they thought it made sense. They could've been wrong.
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What Happens When You Die 15 May 2019 00:26 #34

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OpenMind wrote:
..there are several clear as day scriptures that tell us the resurrection happens on the last day..

Yes, but suppose time doesn't exist for the dead?
For example when we die, we might be resurrected on Judgement/ Resurrection Day centuries or millennia from now, but to us it might seem like we died just a couple of seconds ago
..:)
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What Happens When You Die 15 May 2019 00:32 #35

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OpenMind wrote:
Because the original Greek doesn't have a comma at all. It was inserted by the translators where they thought it made sense. They could've been wrong.

Okay, here's the verse again but this time I've moved the comma at your suggestion-
"I say unto you today, you'll be with me in paradise".

But so what? Is a moved comma really so important? Jesus is telling the chap that he'll be with him in paradise, and as I said in my previous post, time may well stop for the dead, and our concept of time (as we know it) may therefore be meaningless..:)
Last Edit: 15 May 2019 00:34 by Ugh.
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What Happens When You Die 15 May 2019 01:46 #36

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OpenMind wrote:
peacenik wrote:
OpenMind wrote:
I used to also believe in those near death experiences because a lot of those stories are very compelling, but my foundation for understanding is the scriptures and it clearly refutes these stories. Therefore, in my mind, these stories have lost credibility.

So in other words, your religious zeal does not permit you to see or know anything outside of your box, and you think it's cool that you've limited your awareness to what others have written for you, in the form of scripture?
You wouldn't of course see that if you simply "read" the Bible. You have to actually understand it.

Why should I read your bible? It doesn't concern me. it concerns jews. Why should I give two shits about a people who follow around a genocidal, jealous, "god" named Yahweh?
Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point.” ~ Chuang Tzu
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What Happens When You Die 15 May 2019 03:42 #37

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Ugh wrote:
OpenMind wrote:
Because the original Greek doesn't have a comma at all. It was inserted by the translators where they thought it made sense. They could've been wrong.

Okay, here's the verse again but this time I've moved the comma at your suggestion-
"I say unto you today, you'll be with me in paradise".

But so what? Is a moved comma really so important? Jesus is telling the chap that he'll be with him in paradise, and as I said in my previous post, time may well stop for the dead, and our concept of time (as we know it) may therefore be meaningless..:)

Moving the comment takes away the instant resurrection. That's a critical distinction when we're discussing what happens when we die.
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What Happens When You Die 15 May 2019 03:48 #38

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Ugh wrote:
OpenMind wrote:
..there are several clear as day scriptures that tell us the resurrection happens on the last day..

Yes, but suppose time doesn't exist for the dead?
For example when we die, we might be resurrected on Judgement/ Resurrection Day centuries or millennia from now, but to us it might seem like we died just a couple of seconds ago
..:)

Time will not be perceptible to the dead, because as King Solomon said, "The dead know nothing" (Ecc 9:5) but obviously time continues on after people die, so that's a silly argument. There will be a last day, when there will be no night (Revelation 22:5) and that will be the day of resurrection.
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What Happens When You Die 15 May 2019 03:52 #39

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peacenik wrote:
OpenMind wrote:
You wouldn't of course see that if you simply "read" the Bible. You have to actually understand it.

Why should I read your bible? It doesn't concern me. it concerns jews. Why should I give two shits about a people who follow around a genocidal, jealous, "god" named Yahweh?

The old testament follows around the Jews, and though it may seem irrelevant to you today, the entire story is interpreted and clarified by the New Testament, revealing important truths that matter to every single person alive regardless of race or religion. But the new testament goes even further than that, as it introduces a new covenant with God as the Jews were never able to abide by the original covenant, and this new covenant is open to all the people of the earth, not only Jews. In fact, the new testament specifically says "circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. It's the new creation that matters". In other words, it no longer matters if you're a Jew or not. What matters is your relationship with God.

You can choose not to believe it of course, that's your prerogative, but that doesn't mean it doesn't concern you. It very much concerns you.
Last Edit: 15 May 2019 03:56 by OpenMind.
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What Happens When You Die 15 May 2019 05:19 #40

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OpenMind wrote:
peacenik wrote:
OpenMind wrote:
You wouldn't of course see that if you simply "read" the Bible. You have to actually understand it.

Why should I read your bible? It doesn't concern me. it concerns jews. Why should I give two shits about a people who follow around a genocidal, jealous, "god" named Yahweh?

What matters is your relationship with God.

And your definition of "God", is the god of Israel,.....Right?
Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point.” ~ Chuang Tzu
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