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TOPIC: God Wanted (Dead or Alive)

God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 05 Feb 2016 11:31 #1

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Belief = Hope
Hope = Want
Want = Belief
Belief in God = God wanted.


Here is a pragmatic example of the belief/hope/want system where God resides.

In The Searchers directed by John Ford, based on the 1954 novel by Alan Le May :chuckle: Ethan Edwards (John Wayne) comes home to find the homestead in flames and that a Nawyecka band of Comanche led by ''Scar'' the chief has killed the adults and has abducted the two young girls Debbie and her older sister Lucy.

Ethan embarks on a long journey and finds Lucy brutally murdered and presumably raped in a canyon near the Comanche camp, and later rescues Debbie who has become a Comanche (assimilated after years of living with Scar) and wanted to stay with Scar, who Ethan later kills.


The point being is that Ethan during his search had belief that the girls would be rescued, could be alive, even after he found the dead Lucy he still believed that Debbie was alive, his trek was motivated by this belief, he hoped that they were alive, he wanted them to be alive, whether they were alive or not in reality did not affect his wanting,

This exemplifies how belief is a manifestation of hope, and how hope is a manifestation of want. So if someone believes in God, they really want God, but one only wants something either if they have it and want to keep it, or they don't have it and are searching/desiring it.

What's needed now is a consideration if God is found and wanted for keeps, or if God is being sought. People who believe in God have not found God, rather they have validated their search for God by equating a number of feelings and/or outcomes to validate their beliefs, it's a bit like Ethan finding a sign that Scar was at a particular location that he could go to, in Ethan's case Scar is the Prophet figure as to follow Scar is the path to find Debbie (being what Ethan believes in).

All the believers in God can do is validate their belief in God as being on the right track to one day perhaps find God but as yet God is not found, thus they do not have God, this means that their belief/hope/want for God, is not ''I want to keep God'' rather ''I want to meet God.''

So belief in God is a validation that God has never been found, rather a desire that God is found, so they hope and believe that God exists because like Ethan they don't know.

The main difference is that Ethan prior and during his search knows that the girls existed but is unsure if they still exist, God believers don't even know if God exists to begin with, so they not only want to find God, they also want God to exist. In such case belief and hope are both forms of want.

In this context the act of belief is an admission that they are simply wanting a God, and by proxy of their ''spiritual'' authority they seek, it's why they use prophets to ''show them the way'' they follow the footsteps with hope in their hearts, they want a God so badly that they think that their belief is actually a manifestation of that God.
:)
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Last Edit: 05 Feb 2016 12:53 by Frothy.
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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 05 Feb 2016 12:34 #2

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I find it less than a coincidence that the ones who want God most are the ones who had their young heads filled with the concept of it. Granted, there are some cases of black sheep who let down the family religious traditions and choose an entirely different path to follow, but they are a tiny minority of the overall religiously-inclined population.
Last Edit: 05 Feb 2016 12:35 by ragnarok.
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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 05 Feb 2016 12:44 #3

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Yes agreed, and that thought can be applied to families or entire communities, depending where in the world one looks.

btw I have edited the o/p last paragraph as I thought it had drifted off the point a bit.
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Last Edit: 05 Feb 2016 12:47 by Frothy.
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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 05 Feb 2016 13:38 #4

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ragnarok wrote:
I find it less than a coincidence that the ones who want God most are the ones who had their young heads filled with the concept of it. Granted, there are some cases of black sheep who let down the family religious traditions and choose an entirely different path to follow, but they are a tiny minority of the overall religiously-inclined population.



As the folk saying goes:


"One man's God is another man's 'Holy Cause'".



English w French subs (this is one of the most often deleted ENGLISH language docus on yt ever)






German (better quality): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR-aPeOAtG0

When I first watched this film I was truly shocked at the extremely cruel
psycho methods of indoctrination used on Jewish children!

Not that the indoctrination on German children would be less evil,
but different and also harming soul and mind, to feel guilty eternally.

Since then I do understand why hate against Germans and everything
German is so strong in the adults and submission to the Jews is so
strong in brainwashed Germans.




bolshepedia talk: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Defamation_%28film%29

Review by Philip Weiss: mondoweiss.net/2009/04/i-saw-a-great-movie-tonight-the-documentary-defamation-by-yoav-tk-an-israeli-filmmaker-its-about-the-consecration-of-a/


ADL Statement on "Defamation,"
a Documentary Film by Yoav Shamir


Two years ago Yoav Shamir approached the Anti-Defamation League for assistance on a documentary he was making on the subject of anti-Semitism. We provided him wide access to film ADL in action, in our offices, at our annual national meeting, on leadership missions in Italy, Ukraine and Poland, and in Israel. Our expectation was that his documentary would present a serious portrait of what Jews worldwide face today -- anti-Semitism in both its age-old and new forms, and the actions taken to counter it.

After seeing "Defamation" we can only say the film fell far short of our expectation. Rather than document anti-Semites and their hatred of Jews and the Jewish State of Israel, the film belittles the issue and portrays the work of ADL and that of his own country as inconsequential. There was so much more Shamir could have and should have done.

"Defamation" is neither enlightening, nor edifying, nor compelling. It distorts the prevalence and impact of anti-Semitism and cheapens the Holocaust. It is Shamir's perverse, personal, political perspective and a missed opportunity to document a serious and important issue.

-- May 8, 2009

The Anti-Defamation League, founded in 1913, is the world's leading organization fighting anti-Semitism through programs and services that counteract hatred, prejudice and bigotry.

.
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 06 Feb 2016 14:13 #5

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@PFIZIPFEI

I watched about two thirds of that YouTube documentary that you posted about anti-Semitism, the reason that I turned it off is none other than it being a bit drab imo.

I don't see what connection it has with this thread as per thread title, o/p, or subsequent posts in particular, it's just seems that you wanted to post it up all the same.

As it happens I was and now will take this opportunity to address the holocaust as a ''belief'' as that seems to tie into this thread in that aspect. Contrary to popular belief here I don't support the holocaust narrative, the two threads that I started about that topic which I believe were titled as ''Evidence of Treblinka'' and ''Who invented the Holocaust'' but it was that long ago I don't recall the exact thread titles, both of which have been amalgamated by novum into the thread now named ''The holocaust'' where I have been misrepresented imo as having a pro-holocaust opinion as in ''I think the mainstream media have it right''. And another thread where I question the validation of the Prussian Blue staining or rather lack of, as evidence to support that no gassings took place.

My opinion is that some gassing did take place, and have posted my opinion of the numbers to be not 6 million, not even 1 million but an estimated figure in the range a few hundred thousand, not reaching half a million.
My posting about Treblinka was evidence given mainly by German personnel that were present during wwII and as such of most of my posting on that matter, thus if I need to make a decision on that matter it will be based on their testimony and that of others present, not by the subjective investigations of ''investigators'' who have clearly set out to prove their point which already holds a premise that they intend to support. Rudolf et al.

That aside the holocaust whether one believes nobody was gassed in the said camps, or that a much lesser figure is the more plausible outcome either way the belief relating to the 6 million figure is in some way connected to this belief in God thread here.

What posters need to do is to take all their disbelief about the holocaust, about 9/11 and what-not-else and apply that to their religion, there's no point in identifying all the inconsistent details of the holocaust or of 9/11 and then when one thinks of their chosen religion simply just put down their tool for reason and drop to their knees.

It's actually a type of oxymoron to show so much disbelief towards the narratives that people are fed, and to then continue to believe the biggest lie of all, whist you or anyone else here support Christianity or Islam you then come across as inconsistent yourselves when you criticise others for believing the mainstream media/education services whist you or anyone else here submit to their religions.

So what posters need do imo is use all these fabulous abilities that they have for seeing the truth and picking it out of the lies to analyse the religions that they themselves appear to support, dropping ones inquisition at the door of their own church/religion/cult is a sign of subjective bias and of having a religious agenda to uphold thus the rest of their postings come across as side swipes rather than honest and objective processes.
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Last Edit: 06 Feb 2016 14:15 by Frothy.
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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 06 Feb 2016 14:20 #6

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The first casualty in any war is truth. There's your clue as to how to treat anything you are told about events occurring during wars.
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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 06 Feb 2016 14:36 #7

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Yup but one can go too far the other way and start believing the complete opposite of what they are told, in my experience the lies are built on small truths, that's how they tie up and have a certain amount of witness etc.

The lies are often add ons and exaggerations, or the other side when they are all played down.

That's how propaganda usually works, they can't make outright lies as they can too easily have witnesses that say ''no that didn't happen.''

The holocaust for example, if you see 20 jews being gassed, then you are a witness but you don't know if more than 20 Jews were gassed or not, so you could say that you witnessed the gassings, so the 6 million figure then is supported by your and the evidence of a few others, the lie is in the multiplication because no one witness could count the overall number, they just see their small evidence, imo that's the story of the holocaust and the 6 million.

Reading between the lines that's how I see it, and posting up propaganda from opposing positions is not going to hide what seems to be plain and simply how the lies in that case were hung onto much smaller truths.
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Last Edit: 06 Feb 2016 14:39 by Frothy.
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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 07 Feb 2016 09:01 #8

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''God Hates Fags''

Couldn't find a copy of this on YouTube but it can be seen here though you might need to click past a couple of pop up adds.

putlocker.is/watch-the-most-hated-family-in-america-online-free-putlocker.html
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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 07 Feb 2016 10:36 #9

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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 07 Feb 2016 10:54 #10

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The rise of Arab atheism
Across the Middle East, governments are cracking down on non-belief
But Arab atheists are becoming more visible

Religious disbelief is viewed with alarm in most Arab countries. Two government ministries in Egypt have been ordered to produce a national plan to “confront and eliminate” atheism. In Saudi Arabia, the most recent anti-terrorism law classifies “calling for atheist thought” as a terrorist offence.

This hounding of non-believers might seem especially strange at a time when concerns are high about those who kill in the name of religion, but Arab societies have a general aversion to nonconformity, and the regimes that rule them often promote an official version of Islam that suits their political needs. Thus both jihadism and atheism – though very different in character – are viewed as forms of social or political deviance, with fears raised in the Arab media that those who reject God and religion will bring chaos and immorality if their ideas gain a foothold.

In six Arab countries – Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, the United Arab Emirates and Yemen – apostasy is punishable by death. There have been no executions in recent years, but people deemed to have “insulted” religion, often in trivial ways, can face long prison sentences.

In Egypt, where the military chief Abdel Fattah el-Sisi seized power in 2013, ousting an Islamist president, the new regime has been simultaneously cracking down on the Muslim Brotherhood, suspected religious extremists and atheists. Among other things, a café in Cairo which was allegedly frequented by atheists has been shut down and a college librarian who talked about humanism in a TV programme is facing dismissal from his job and may go on trial for “promoting atheistic ideas”.

Arab atheists are becoming more visible, largely due to social media. There is also a perception that their numbers are growing. In 2012 a poll by WIN/Gallup International that looked at religion in 57 countries caused particular alarm in Saudi Arabia, which, as the birthplace of Islam, claims to be the holiest of the Arab countries. Of those interviewed there, 19 per cent said they were not religious and 5 per cent described themselves as convinced atheists.

In Egypt, the emergence of an atheist “menace” fits the government’s political narrative. It is presented as an unfortunate result of 12 months’ misrule by the Muslim Brotherhood. In a similar vein, some analysts have suggested that ISIS, while attracting some Muslims to fight, is driving others away from Islam. There is very little evidence to support such theories. Atheists, after all, disagree with religion in general, not simply with the more outlandish forms of it. The problematic aspects of Islam, as expressed by those who leave the faith, tend to be rather different from those highlighted in western media.

Last year, researching my book Arabs Without God, I tried to find out why some Arabs turn to atheism. No one I spoke to mentioned terrorism as a major factor. Those who abandoned Islam did so because they rejected basic tenets of the faith, mainly as taught to them in schools and by government-approved clerics. In interviews, they mostly described a gradual progression away from religion, sometimes spread over years; there was no sudden “road to Damascus” moment of conversion to atheism. Typically, it began with a niggling question about some aspect of religious teaching that struck them as illogical, and often they had hoped to resolve these discrepancies to have a better understanding of their faith.

The issue most often cited by Arabs as their first step on the road to disbelief was the apparent unfairness of divine justice. The picture they had acquired was of an irascible and sometimes irrational deity who behaves in much the same way as an Arab dictator or an old-fashioned family patriarch – an anthropomorphic figure who makes arbitrary decisions and seems eager to punish people at the slightest opportunity. Dire warnings, constantly repeated in the Qur’an, of what would happen to non-believers had clearly made a strong impression on them in childhood.

“The idea of eternal hell was very disturbing to me,” said Mohammed Ramadan, an Egyptian. “I was nine when I asked my parents why would God punish us for ever when we live for an average of only 70 years.”

A Saudi who is known on Twitter as “Arab Atheist” was troubled by the question of why seemingly decent non-Muslims should be punished by God. Arriving in the US to study at a Jesuit college, he began to realise “how similar all religions are” in their basic teachings. “In Islam,” he said, “we are taught that all non-Muslims are going to hell. I had Jewish neighbours who were the kindest and sweetest couple and it made me wonder, why should they go to hell? And suddenly Islam started to crumble in my eyes.”

Waleed al-Husseini, from the Palestinian town of Qalqilya, grew up in what he describes as a normal Muslim family but in secondary school he started asking “questions like whether we are free to choose or not”. Without realising it at the time, he had stumbled into a debate about free will and predestination that has exercised the minds of theologians – Christian as well as Muslim – for centuries. Husseini put his questions to a teacher at school. “The teacher said it’s haram [forbidden] to ask about that,” he recalled. “I didn’t have an answer so I went to an imam in Qalqilya and I got the same reply.”

This kind of response is familiar in authoritarian societies and is described by many other Arabs who have abandoned religion. By prompting them to look further afield for answers, it has probably set many young Muslims on the road to disbelief. With his curiosity aroused, Husseini embarked on his own research. “I went to the library in my school and the public library in my city. You can find many things there about religion but not about criticisms of religion,” he said. “I spent around four years searching because when I started with this issue I discovered more and more. Step by step I moved away from religion until I left Islam in my first year at university.”

Given the way Islam is often invoked to justify gender inequality – the discriminatory inheritance rules, for example, and subordination under the guise of female “modesty” – it might be argued that women in the Middle East have more reasons than men for abandoning religion. Some certainly do rebel and leave, but social conditions created by the patriarchal system make it difficult for others even to contemplate doing so. For vast numbers of Arab women, choosing between belief and non-belief is not a realistic option. Nabila from Bahrain explained: “There is a lot of pressure on women to conform. For instance, something as simple as finding a partner or getting into a relationship. Everything is counted, everything is watched.”

The popular association of atheism with immorality is a particular deterrent for women who have religious doubts, since in Arab society they are expected to be “virtuous” in order to marry. “It is difficult to come out as an atheist because society immediately considers you to be a person without moral values or ethics. This affects girls the most,” the administrator of the “Arab Atheists” Facebook page noted. “We have had to remove names of female members from the page to protect them from families and society.”

Social pressures of this kind are obviously not the only reason why many women still cling to religion. For those who feel oppressed it can also provide a “comfort factor”, creating a paradoxical situation in which women may be simultaneously subjugated and sustained by their faith.

One striking difference between Arab non-believers and those in the West is that scientific arguments about evolution and the origins of the universe, a major part of Western atheist discourse, play only a minor role in Arabs’ drift away from religion – at least in the earlier stages. Generally, their initial questioning is not so much about the possibility (or otherwise) of God’s existence as about whether God could exist in the form described by organised religions.

A few, while rejecting the God of Islam, maintain a vague belief in a deity or express a yearning for “spirituality”. In different circumstances, some might have explored other belief systems or “New Age” religion but the opportunities are severely restricted in the Middle East. Most Muslim countries tolerate Christianity and Judaism up to a point, referring to them as the “heavenly” religions, but others are not usually recognised or allowed – though they may be practised surreptitiously. In Kuwait, there are yoga classes and “healing centres” run by Buddhists but they don’t advertise their religious connections.

Some Muslims also make a tactical decision not to break with religion completely, presenting themselves as secularists, “progressive” Muslims or Muslim “reformers”. They feel that more can be achieved by challenging oppressive religious practices than by questioning the existence of God, since they are unlikely to be listened to if they are known to be atheists. Of course, not all progressive Muslims are secret non-believers – many are genuinely religious – but Ghassan Abdullah of Birzeit University, who has studied the work of a score of 20th-century “secular” Arab thinkers, believes that “a high proportion” of them were in fact atheists, or at least “did not subscribe to the idea of a God in the sky”. Several of them had said so privately, he added. “Writing critically about religion in the Arab world is not easy or safe,” Abdullah explained, but “as readers of rationalists in Arabic, we develop a sense of what such writers mean when they use certain ways of expressing their thoughts, and can guess their positions that they cannot declare openly.”

The Deen Research Center, which describes itself as a “modern Islamic thinktank”, is one example of an organisation that radically reinterprets scripture and steers very close to atheism while still claiming membership of the Muslim faith. “We believe the Qur’an rejects all forms of superstition, blind worship, discrimination, oppression, aggression, autocracy, theocracy, oppressive tradition and anti-scientism,” it says on its website. The website also stops just short of outright atheism by redefining God: “We do not believe in a god as seen by the mainstream within the religions. We believe in a god, or rather a force that is beyond comprehension, has no form or position, nor has any personal gains in the results of the universe but also does not play with humans as a despotic king or a dictator. We do not believe in ideas of salvational worship or the supernatural.”

While there’s little doubt that an Islamic reformation would benefit the Middle East socially and politically, atheists cannot advocate this without sacrificing their principles. Progressive versions of Islam generally view the Qur’an in its historical context, arguing that rules which applied in the time of the Prophet can be reinterpreted today in the light of changing circumstances – but that involves accepting the Qur’an as the supreme scriptural authority.

The status of the Qur’an is a particularly important issue for both followers and opponents of Islam. Whereas Christians usually consider the Bible as divinely inspired but written by humans, the Qur’an is claimed to be the actual words of God, as revealed to the Prophet Muhammad by the Angel Gabriel (Jibril in Arabic).

For atheists from a Muslim background, disputing the authenticity of the Qur’an and the Prophet often seems more relevant than questioning God – and there is a long tradition of doing so. Two notable figures of the ninth and tenth centuries, Ibn al-Rawandi and Abu Bakr al-Razi (both Persian), have often been labelled as atheists, though it would be more accurate to describe them as anti-prophetic rationalists. They were not concerned with whether God exists (and had little scientific knowledge on which to build a case) but they were very sceptical about prophets, including Muhammad. With various people claiming to be prophets and often contradicting each other, logic suggested they couldn’t all have a hotline to God. So the question was which of them – if any – were genuine.

Then, as now, the arguments of non-believers tended to rely on irrationality in religious doctrine rather than questioning the evidence for God’s existence. This is where atheist reactions to Islam and to Christianity diverge.

Although there is a long history of conflicts between science and Christianity, Muslims have not generally regarded scientific discoveries as a threat. The famous occasion in 1633 when Italian scientist Galileo Galilei was forced by the Roman Catholic Church to recant his “heretical” belief that the earth revolves around the sun has no Islamic equivalent. Muslims’ historical eagerness to engage with science was connected to their faith. Astronomy was of particular interest since they used a lunar calendar, and needed to ascertain the direction of Mecca when praying.

Publication of Charles Darwin’s book On the Origin of Species in 1859 drew a mixed response from Muslims. Some, including the Grand Mufti of Egypt, relished the problems that Darwin’s theory caused for Christianity, arguing that Islam was relatively free from conflicts over science and thus more capable of taking things in its stride. Today, Muslim opposition to Darwinism is growing, probably due to the trend towards religious conservatism and literal interpretations of scripture since the 1970s. As a result, evolution is an area where Arab schools, universities and media tread warily for fear of provoking complaints.

In the Middle East the God question is far more than a matter for intellectual debate. Because politics and religion are so closely entwined, challenging religion can mean challenging the politics too. Most Arab regimes use religious credentials to compensate for their lack of electoral legitimacy, adopting and promoting whatever version of Islam assists their self-preservation.

The Ba’athist regime in Syria, for example – despite having secular leanings – invented its own monolithic brand of Islam which basically denied the existence of sectarian differences and didn’t allow people to talk about them openly. This helped to disguise the fact that members of the minority Alawite sect held dominant positions within the regime – in a country with a large Sunni majority. In the most extreme case, Saudi Arabia, it is impossible to be openly atheist without opposing the political system too. The kingdom’s Basic Law (the equivalent of a constitution) states that “government in Saudi Arabia derives power from the Holy Qur’an and the Prophet’s tradition” and adds that Saudi society is “based on the principle of adherence to God’s command”.

At present, Arabs who reject religion are too small in numbers to pose an actual threat to these regimes but the regimes would like to keep it that way. Their fears, absurd as it might seem to outsiders, are not without foundation.
newhumanist.org.uk/articles/4898/the-rise-of-arab-atheism
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Last Edit: 07 Feb 2016 10:59 by Frothy.
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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 07 Feb 2016 12:00 #11

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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 07 Feb 2016 12:13 #12

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Hitchens vs Jew

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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 07 Feb 2016 14:01 #13

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There's little to choose between religious blind faith and the political variety.
People seem to need to believe in something or someone 'bigger' than themselves.
We have devout neo-nazis on here who swallow every last tract and icon-like video proaganda clip they paste on here as if those were somehow true or holy writ ratherbthan the advertisements those undoubtedly are.
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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 07 Feb 2016 14:42 #14

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GMP wrote:
There's little to choose between religious blind faith and the political variety.
People seem to need to believe in something or someone 'bigger' than themselves.
We have devout neo-nazis on here who swallow every last tract and icon-like video proaganda clip they paste on here as if those were somehow true or holy writ ratherbthan the advertisements those undoubtedly are.

Must you be such a cretin, there's a huge difference between political ideology and religion.

Political ideology has a variety which are founded on social opinion and control, they have been successfully modelled and can be used as options if selected or in some cases are imposed.
Religions have a variety but the three biggest being Jewish, Christian, Islamic, all believe in the same God, they simply offer different paths to ''salvation''.

For example one could look at the Swiss model of direct democracy and see the working model and asses whether or not it will work in ones own nation, that's hardly belief.Thus not ''blind faith''.

It would be within a religious context like peeping into heaven and seeing which religion god prefers, and then deciding to join that religion, however as that is not possible because neither heaven nor god are real things the choice in variety is basically drummed into people as children. And is ''blind faith''.

If you want to keep harping on about the Nazi's you could at least go and find threads relating to that topic GMP,
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Last Edit: 07 Feb 2016 14:49 by Frothy.
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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 07 Feb 2016 14:54 #15

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Fair comment about Nazis so no more on them here from me.
Are you taking religion and politics to be different things?
I'd say that organized ( denominational faith groups) religion is a form of politics and vice versa.
I'm not including personal spirituality in that though.
I mean religions 'led' by a hierarchy vested in a gradation of priestly offices.
Political parties mirrored religious denominations.
Look at the Labour Party and Methodism for one example or early Episcopal Christianity and the Roman Empire for another.
My point remains that be it a political 'truth' or a religious 'truth' many people like to believe in something bigger than or beyond themselves.
It saves them having to think for themself too much.
:)
Last Edit: 07 Feb 2016 14:55 by GMP.
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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 07 Feb 2016 15:23 #16

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I'm stating that one can make their political choice from the political variety using something other than ''blind faith'' I gave the example in my last post already.

Practical social solutions can be viewed as working models in other nations, so an informed choice can be sourced prior to a vote or opinion being cast.

Religious choice is ''blind faith''.

For example if a group of 100 people go and live in a previously uninhabited island some natural leaders may come forth, they can present their ideas and people can decide from the political variety which form they would prefer by using all the working models elsewhere on Earth as possible choices.

If a religion is decided upon, it's not like they can go to heaven and ask for god's preference, there is no heavenly model available to view.

Your point about religious ''blind faith'' being little different than political variety is therefore simply wrong, as religion is based on blind faith and politics is often based on models that are already in use elsewhere. So the only required faith for politics is often in the ability to implement rather than the belief in the existence.

Eyes open vs eyes shut. There's a huge difference.
Once a hyena always a hyena.
Last Edit: 07 Feb 2016 16:19 by Frothy.
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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 07 Feb 2016 16:20 #17

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There IS a Holy Power more encompassing than all of us, beyond our finite abilities to comprehend with the brains masterfully constructed by this same power, yet we, in our arrogance, use these same millions of brain neurons (something way beyond our own ability to create within ourselves) convincing ourselves that this Greater Power than Us does not exist. :larf:
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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 07 Feb 2016 16:29 #18

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Rather ''we' decide that :arowup: power does exist because ''we'' mistake ''our belief'' in that power as being a manifestation of that power.
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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 07 Feb 2016 16:49 #19

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Cousin_Frothy wrote:
I'm stating that one can make their political choice from the political variety using something other than ''blind faith'' I gave the example in my last post already.

Practical social solutions can be viewed as working models in other nations, so an informed choice can be sourced prior to a vote or opinion being cast.

Religious choice is ''blind faith''.

For example if a group of 100 people go and live in a previously uninhabited island some natural leaders may come forth, they can present their ideas and people can decide from the political variety which form they would prefer by using all the working models elsewhere on Earth as possible choices.

If a religion is decided upon, it's not like they can go to heaven and ask for god's preference, there is no heavenly model available to view.

Your point about religious ''blind faith'' being little different than political variety is therefore simply wrong, as religion is based on blind faith and politics is often based on models that are already in use elsewhere. So the only required faith for politics is often in the ability to implement rather than the belief in the existence.

Eyes open vs eyes shut. There's a huge difference.
I can see where you are coming from and don't disagree in some instances.
Somebody chooses to vote in a particular way based on the partys past performance. That's an informed political act and not blind faith.
On the other hand you find political actions that are blind faith for example in systems where the 'dear leader' can do no weong as far as his followers ( the 'voters' ) are concerned. North Korea comes to mind.
Also political systems where the voters are so hoodwinked by the political elite that they vote for the system even though the system is screwing them over. I can't see that as being much different from a religion where the priesthood is poncing off the back of the 'faithful'.
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God Wanted (Dead or Alive) 07 Feb 2016 16:58 #20

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Always seems that god believers have to have a low opinion of humans, the way I see it is that if they hold onto that spirit and keep away from the nasty atheist whom are highly represented in science and technology hence keep away from such inventions and discoveries and just read their bibles, go to their church services, have spiritual thoughts and thanks, they would't be noticed.

Thinking of a scenario; if a man is attempting to grow vegetables on poor soil, yet the soil is bad for growth, it is infertile, so he prays and prays, one day a someone comes along with a horse who's horse takes a crap on said soil, farming man then notices vegetable growth near dung, he goes to get more dung and ''presto'' vegetables are grown.

Man thanks god in prayer.



Another scenario; two people are trapped in a room each, the walls to the room are slowly coming in and they shall be crushed. The door is locked with a keypad code, there is a complex mathematical question to answer, thus the keypad code is the answer, one of these people is a mathematician who quickly solves the question and is freed, the other person has never been trained about mathematics thus is simply entering random numbers into the keypad coded device and at the same time is crying ''please god help me''.

This person gets crushed, what they should have cried was ''please neighbour help me''.

But hey-ho I guess it was gods will that they died.
Once a hyena always a hyena.
Last Edit: 07 Feb 2016 17:02 by Frothy.
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