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TOPIC: The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not?

The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 01:19 #1

  • Gaia
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There is a big schism at Truth Zone, where it basically boils down to the following simple example:

==================

The media present a story about a murder X.
The murderer has been identified as (John) K.
The motive for the murder was A.
The murder weapon was P.

What happens:

- media/politicians/storytellers - the media/politicians/etc.; the mouthpieces of the Elites present this story where X, K, A and P are fixed and form "the official story"
- (alternative) media - then come all kinds of puppets ("opinion makers") who might question/have a different view of A (the motive/background), but all the other letters they accept
- Group 2 and option 2 in the poll - Those who call people "hoaxers" accept X as a given (and they attack people who do NOT accept X), you may question K, you heavily question A and P may be questioned too
- Group 1 and option 1 in the poll - Hoaxbusters question ALL of the letters of this equation


"Can one question the motive A, B or C, the murder weapon P, Q or R, the responsible K, L or M, but cannot question the (so-called) fact it happened; X"?

=======================

The schism is creating two* groups:
A - X is questionable, the "event"/murder X is not excluded from questioning
B - X is unquestionable, all other letters can be questioned, but X is unquestionable

* group three would be (C - this would be the mainstream shill version, where none of the letters is questionable; everything happens just as the media present it)

A main question the people in group A would like to know is:

Why oh why is it (somehow) allowed to question all of the letters except X? Why is X some "holy", "not to be questioned" given, a fact?

Where does this belief in the media come from that X is somehow true? The rest is debatable, but X, no, that cannot be debated?


Poll is added to get a better view on this schism at Truth Zone.
Thread is placed in Public Zone to allow everyone (also the silent readers who read along but may not participate in the discussions) to add their thoughts.
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
Last Edit: 21 Jun 2017 15:38 by Gaia.
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The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 10:24 #2

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I always question, but i also often think to myself i cant know what happened if i wasnt there... and by there i mean close enough to see casualties... unless i come across other very strong evidence thats trustworthy...so with that said, i often dont come to conclusions myself and i also think every incident is a unique case, some may be hoaxes to muddy the waters and some not, some are false flags some not.

This is one reason why im often floating above the TZ schism in between it. :larf: .. sometimes i cant see how those who claim to know what happened can really know either way when they dont have enough verifiable evidence.
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The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 12:55 #3

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I've already commented a lot on this subject during the last years, while I was the only one on TZ, who was interested in questioning
mainstream "science" for instance, and I am sorry to tell you that I think your description is not clear enough, much too complicated
for those who are not interested in alternative views, Gaia.

Could you break it down into a few crystal clear sentences without much type gimmickry, which distracts from the contents?

I know what you mean but if I didn't, this text would turn me off from even trying to understand.

This is simply to be understood as constructive criticism and thanks for starting this thread, because I think
it's a most important subject and there can't be enough attempts to make others understand what this is all
about.
.
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
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The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 13:39 #4

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Pfiz, could katie perry fainting be a hoax? :P

(or she was just overworked and under fed, got light headed, cant imagine it could be that simple though, must be MK ultra :P )

And on that note, im outta here for now.

:gmc:
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The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 13:55 #5

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novum wrote:
Pfiz, could katie perry fainting be a hoax? :P

(or she was just overworked and under fed, got light headed, cant imagine it could be that simple though, must be MK ultra :P )

And on that note, im outta here for now.

:gmc:


Yes of course it could be and most probably was :) a publicity stunt,
that's what it looked like on stage to me.


You are referring to this comment: ;)


truth-zone.net/forum/the-lounge/60406-what-are-you-listening-to-right-now.html?start=4180#267255
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]



She came across quite healthy and natural on this video, btw:


Katy Perry - The Therapist on Viceland (Witness World Wide)




Back on topic?

:roll:
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
Last Edit: 21 Jun 2017 13:59 by PFIZIPFEI.
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The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 15:14 #6

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Gaia what you are missing out here is that the majority on this forum & others have their own agenda & arnt interested in truth.

You also have your Russian vids & Peekay type videos YT is infested by & they hardly ever produce anything & is mostly wild speculation & conjecture. So you cant blame some peeps from avoiding that shit.
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The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 15:34 #7

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porridge wrote:
Gaia what you are missing out here is that the majority on this forum & others have their own agenda & arnt interested in truth.

You also have your Russian vids & Peekay type videos YT is infested by & they hardly ever produce anything & is mostly wild speculation & conjecture. So you cant blame some peeps from avoiding that shit.


You are speaking for others?

Speak for yourself!

Speak about your agenda, which you proudly present in your avatar.





Fixed it 4 ya
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
Only registered members can reply. Create an Account to join the discussion.

The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 15:47 #8

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novum wrote:
I always question, but i also often think to myself i cant know what happened if i wasnt there... and by there i mean close enough to see casualties... unless i come across other very strong evidence thats trustworthy...so with that said, i often dont come to conclusions myself and i also think every incident is a unique case, some may be hoaxes to muddy the waters and some not, some are false flags some not.

This is one reason why im often floating above the TZ schism in between it. :larf: .. sometimes i cant see how those who claim to know what happened can really know either way when they dont have enough verifiable evidence.

I read some key words in your post:

"very strong evidence"
"trustworthy"
"muddy the waters"
"verifiable"

those words have meanings. What is "very strong"? What is "evidence"? What is "trustworthy"? How/what is "muddying the waters"? How do you assess "verifiable"?

Like I said in the "latest van incident" thread I think (this) nitpicking and hairsplitting is exactly what truth seeking means.

Additionally, I am surprised by lots here who have double standards; somehow those who see a hoax in a present or past event have to come up with loads of "evidence" to make that idea stand for the story believers, while at the same time those people seem to believe the mainstream story at face value.

Why do the presenters of these stories get away with their sloppy storytelling but suddenly those who question X need to come up with evidence, at the risk of being called "crazy", "destroyers" and more vile attacks when they, in the eyes of the story believers w.r.t. X do not "comply" with that "task" given?

The thing is: we cannot know what did happen. But we can (come to) know what didn't.
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
Last Edit: 21 Jun 2017 15:57 by Gaia.
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The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 16:10 #9

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PFIZIPFEI wrote:
I've already commented a lot on this subject during the last years, while I was the only one on TZ, who was interested in questioning
mainstream "science" for instance, and I am sorry to tell you that I think your description is not clear enough, much too complicated
for those who are not interested in alternative views, Gaia.

Could you break it down into a few crystal clear sentences without much type gimmickry, which distracts from the contents?

I have removed some of the lay-outing but I don't know how to make it even simpler/clearer? It's just a couple of points using letters as "variables".
I know what you mean but if I didn't, this text would turn me off from even trying to understand.

This is simply to be understood as constructive criticism and thanks for starting this thread, because I think
it's a most important subject and there can't be enough attempts to make others understand what this is all
about.
.

The thing you say about science got me thinking.

There's a huge difference between science (beta, exact) and history (gamma, not exact). History is unique in the sense that there is only 1 chain of events that is described with stories. But we cannot go back in time. Science on the other hand is repeatable (at least the meaning of science, not the "scientific" narrated stories). You can do tests/experiments over and over again. With history we have to rely on something that happened (or not).

That makes that science requires an alternative explanation for observations while with history that is not the case.

The example I used before, now in this context (I hope it's crystal clear):

John claims he went to climb Mount Everest from December 1 to 31 without oxygen, experience, arms and legs and in his T-shirt (X)
John claims he has several witnesses Brahma, Karma and Gupta, his sherpas (K)
John claims he did this because he wanted to be the first, the coolest and most respected in the world (A)
John claims he has photos that prove he didn't have arms or legs, he didn't use oxygen and he wore only his T-shirt (P)


What the mainstream "official story" claims is that X, K, A and P are all fixed, carved in stone
What the people who call others "hoaxers" here say is that it can be questioned who was with him (K), why he did it (A), how he did it (P), but not that he did it (X); the holy grail.
What shills do is say "you cannot explain what John's agenda was for the full month of December, so the story is true"
What is sufficient in order to call "hoax" may be debatable, but if one can show that this story is just impossible (X), the photos are faked (P), the witnesses can be bought (easily) (K) and the motive doesn't mean anything (A), then all "bases should be covered", even for those who doubt it's possible to debunk this story.

People who build artificial barriers for themselves and/or are afraid of shattering their worldviews place a lot of trust in John, but somehow not in those who question John's story (X).
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 16:26 #10

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Gaia wrote:
The thing you say about science got me thinking.

There's a huge difference between science (beta, exact) and history (gamma, not exact). History is unique in the sense that there is only 1 chain of events that is described with stories. But we cannot go back in time. Science on the other hand is repeatable (at least the meaning of science, not the "scientific" narrated stories). You can do tests/experiments over and over again. With history we have to rely on something that happened (or not).

That makes that science requires an alternative explanation for observations while with history that is not the case.

(...)

People who build artificial barriers for themselves and/or are afraid of shattering their worldviews place a lot of trust in John, but somehow not in those who question John's story (X).


I agree with most part of your comment.

Theoretical "science" is repeatable, because it's based on theories and only if you accept the theory, otherwise you
can easily reach different results, especially when it comes to physics, which is partially based on kabbalistic number
juggling and "religious" dogmas.

Thus "natural science" of our days is still mainly based on beliefs, it's a complex belief system that you have to accept
as reality, if you want to get a job in this business, instead of being submitted to modern day inquisition.
Most theories e.g. related to the true nature of the earth, cosmos, sun, moon, stars etc. are NOT PROVEN BY HARD
EVIDENCE for good reason.

But this is another subject.
.
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
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The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 16:59 #11

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PFIZIPFEI wrote:
porridge wrote:
Gaia what you are missing out here is that the majority on this forum & others have their own agenda & arnt interested in truth.

You also have your Russian vids & Peekay type videos YT is infested by & they hardly ever produce anything & is mostly wild speculation & conjecture. So you cant blame some peeps from avoiding that shit.


You are speaking for others?

Speak for yourself!

Speak about your agenda, which you proudly present in your avatar.





Fixed it 4 ya

I spoke about my avatar to you already when you threw a hissy fit & you said you couldn't be bothered debating it with me..so troll someone else Nazi boy.

My statement stands. The majority on this forum & on DIF have an agenda & no matter what evidence provided will shill the offical BBC lullaby.

I was banned from DIF after being trolled to death by the admin for presenting hard evidence he couldn't debunk. Ive seen him do the same to others.
They send you to the rant room then troll you.
Fake as fuck.

All hoax threads...you get an attack of shills & then when real evidence is provided they all disappear.
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The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 17:10 #12

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porridge wrote:
I spoke about my avatar to you already when you threw a hissy fit & you said you couldn't be bothered debating it with me..so troll someone else Nazi boy.

My statement stands. The majority on this forum & on DIF have an agenda & no matter what evidence provided will shill the offical BBC lullaby.

I was banned from DIF after being trolled to death by the admin for presenting hard evidence he couldn't debunk. Ive seen him do the same to others.
They send you to the rant room then troll you.
Fake as fuck.

All hoax threads...you get an attack of shills & then when real evidence is provided they all disappear.


No, I did not want to speak about your avatar, I said YOUR AGENDA, which is represented by your disinfo avatar.

You poor deplorable dif pit victim. (end of sarcasm)

I've been attacked by the then resident there trolls/shills, who are partially now resident on TZ, many years ago
before TZ even existed, and your avatar clearly shows that you would rather get along with them very well.

So please get over it, I won't buy any of your stories.
.
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
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The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 17:11 #13

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Guesswork, speculation and BS.
If you weren't there then you don't know.
Same goes for any incident.
Even eye witnesses sometimes give conflicting accounts.
Arrogance bordering on delusion leads some truthers to claim knowledge when what they actually mean is opinion.
:)
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The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 17:37 #14

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GMP wrote:
Guesswork, speculation and BS.

Pretty strange you don't say this about the mainstream storytellers. Why are questioning people held to different standards than storytelling people?
If you weren't there then you don't know.

Right. So why accept X as a "fact"?
Same goes for any incident.
Even eye witnesses sometimes give conflicting accounts.
Arrogance bordering on delusion leads some truthers to claim knowledge when what they actually mean is opinion.
:)

An opinion is "I like strawberries more than bananas".

Unraveling untruths has nothing to do with opinions.
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 17:45 #15

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MSM-reported material can usually be backed up by ordinary people on the ground, whereas "alternative" sources are always provided by some secretive insider or people who can't help appearing to be complete cranks.
An opinion is "I like strawberries more than bananas".

Not all opinions are equal, as much as some would love that to be the case.
Last Edit: 21 Jun 2017 17:46 by ragnarok.
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The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 17:47 #16

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PFIZIPFEI wrote:
porridge wrote:
I spoke about my avatar to you already when you threw a hissy fit & you said you couldn't be bothered debating it with me..so troll someone else Nazi boy.

My statement stands. The majority on this forum & on DIF have an agenda & no matter what evidence provided will shill the offical BBC lullaby.

I was banned from DIF after being trolled to death by the admin for presenting hard evidence he couldn't debunk. Ive seen him do the same to others.
They send you to the rant room then troll you.
Fake as fuck.

All hoax threads...you get an attack of shills & then when real evidence is provided they all disappear.


No, I did not want to speak about your avatar, I said YOUR AGENDA, which is represented by your disinfo avatar.


You are the one that needs to get over it...ZioNAZI Israel is the reality your beloved Shitler helped create.

You cant handle the truth. Why you are trolling me now & why this forum is so FUBAR :joker:
“Hitlerism enables us to convert all Jews to Zionism” - Nahum Sokolow World Zionist president 1933.
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The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 17:49 #17

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PFIZIPFEI wrote:

Theoretical "science" is repeatable, because it's based on theories and only if you accept the theory, otherwise you
can easily reach different results, especially when it comes to physics, which is partially based on kabbalistic number
juggling and "religious" dogmas.

One of the most stupid things I have ever read on this forum
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."
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The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 17:52 #18

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porridge wrote:
Gaia what you are missing out here is that the majority on this forum & others have their own agenda & arnt interested in truth.

You also have your Russian vids & Peekay type videos YT is infested by & they hardly ever produce anything & is mostly wild speculation & conjecture. So you cant blame some peeps from avoiding that shit.

What do you call "agenda"?

Yes, there's a lot of shite to be found online, but is that relevant to this site, you, me, anyone else?

The fact a lot of garbage exists means your house should be a mess (too)? I don't think so.

It's not about blame. It's about consistency of arguments and only that brings us closer to truths (by stripping away untruths).

If you mean by "agenda", the answer to the question "why can't X (also) be questioned" is "because I want it to be true", then I understand what you mean. If you have a different definition of "agenda", I'd like to know.
The Only Limit is Your Own Imagination
A truth seeker is someone who dares to wade through thick series of toxic smoke screens and tries not to inhale - Gaia
"What do you call 'genius'?" "Well, seeing things others don't see. Or rather the invisible links between things."
- Vladimir Nabokov (1938)
"The silence of conspiracy. Slaughtered on the altar of apathy." - Lords of the New Church (1982)
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The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 18:46 #19

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Gaia wrote:
porridge wrote:
Gaia what you are missing out here is that the majority on this forum & others have their own agenda & arnt interested in truth.

You also have your Russian vids & Peekay type videos YT is infested by & they hardly ever produce anything & is mostly wild speculation & conjecture. So you cant blame some peeps from avoiding that shit.

What do you call "agenda"?

Yes, there's a lot of shite to be found online, but is that relevant to this site, you, me, anyone else?

The fact a lot of garbage exists means your house should be a mess (too)? I don't think so.

It's not about blame. It's about consistency of arguments and only that brings us closer to truths (by stripping away untruths).

If you mean by "agenda", the answer to the question "why can't X (also) be questioned" is "because I want it to be true", then I understand what you mean. If you have a different definition of "agenda", I'd like to know.

By agenda I just mean people who refuse to acknowledge facts because it jeopardises their "Muslims R bad" agenda & they go along with the official story everytime without question.

They want rid of Muslims fall stop & then any other undesirables (non whites)....so its nothing really to do with what they believe or if they partially believe or whatever.

They know they are fucking shills. Why they say "oh Sandy hook was a hoax" but.. "it was Obuma's comie plot".
Trump the Zionazi pig is different coz he marketed them & their Nazi agenda :D
Lamestream twats ripe for the correction camps. Once they got their dream of removing the Muslims.

This forum is the best example of the agenda in your face.




Just keeping it real on trollzone. :joker:
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The schism at Truth Zone; is X a holy grail or not? 21 Jun 2017 20:06 #20

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I understand everybody who boycotts this thread and poll,
because it turned out to be just another division scam .


:thumbup:


Reference:

:right: MANUAL: HOW TO DEVIDE A LIKE-MINDED GROUP OF PEOPLE truth-zone.net/forum/pfizipfei-forum-general-discussion/69430-manual-how-to-divide-a-group-of-like-minded-people.html#267352

:)
"The truth must be repeated over and over again,
because error is repeatedly preached among us, not
only by individuals, but by the masses. In periodicals
and cyclopaedias, in schools and universities; every-
where, in fact, error prevails, and is quite easy in the
feeling that it has a decided majority on its side."

~ J. W. v. Goethe

Johannes Lang "The Hollow World Theory" Blog
My Zone by PFIZIPFEI
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